Beginner's questions

[Noidea]

Hi Everyone

I'm super new to this, I got my first scope one week ago. I mistakenly bought it on eBay because it looked like what I thought a serious scope should look like. I discovered one minute after opening the box that I had purchased a toy (Made of plastic & tin & shakes a lot). Even though it's a toy, I have enjoyed looking at the moon in between the cloudy nights over the past week. Now I would like to upgrade to a real scope. Thanks to a great deal of useful advice on this site I think I am now on the right track.

I have learnt from reading on this site that it's not magnification which makes great viewing, but rather the amount of light reflected from the primary mirror. So from what I understand so far, the larger this mirror the more light collected, correct? What I am wondering is, what would be the minimum size required to view some of our nearest planets like Venus, Mars and Saturn and actually see a planet & not a star (I mean in terms of the size of viewed planet in eye piece).

My current scope Focal Length 700mm Diameter 76mm, with 20, 12.5 & 4mm eye pieces & 2 x Barlow. Would this be capable of seeing anything more than a dot of bright light if I attempted to view a planet? I have seen the photos of planets on this site. I am surprised of how much detail can be seen. I am totally inspired to see it for myself.

Paul :confuse2:

[mickoking]

G'day Paul


With your telescope you should easily be able to see details on some of the planets. Jupiters 4 big moons and some cloud bands. Saturns rings and the phases of venus. The problem with your scope maybe the mount. If it's wobbly you wont see much at all particually at medium to high magnification.

Welcome to IIS :)

[asimov]

Welcome to the site Paul.

Pity about the ebay purchase, but at least your on the right track now.

We need to know your budget before suggestions are made on another scope though.
As Micko says, that scope should show you the basics temporarily until your ready to upgrade.

[acropolite]

Paul, I have an old 60mm Bushnell refractor only 25x mag and can see jupiter & 4 moons, although not much detail and also saturn and rings, so you should, given that the optics are OK, be able to see some planetary detail. The photo's you see of planets on this site aren't necessarily what you will see visually; cameras are able to pick up more detail than your eye will see and many of the images are composite, made from several images stacked to enhance what detail is present. Your 700 mm F/L and 20mm EP will net 35x mag, the 12.5 56x and should resolve some detail on saturn and Jupiter if the optics are even half decent. Try Saturn first, it rises a bit after 10pm at the moment and will look like a yellowish dot on the eastern horizon. Even when it is just over the horizon you should be able to make out the disk shape and rings, the later you leave your viewing, the better the view should be. There are also lots of deep sky objects which are easy targets with small telescopes. If you haven't got a copy it's worth getting Astronomy 2006, which will list monthly targets and give you some decent star maps. :)

[ballaratdragons]

Paul, don't go by the pics in here either. What is seen in a pic is not necessarily what you will see through an eyepiece. A camera (webcam, SLR, etc) will show heaps of detail that just cannot be seen by eye. But the views by eye are still stunning!!!

As Asimov says above we need to know your budget PLUS what do you want to see: Planets, Deep space, use it for Astrophotography?

EDIT: Ya beat me to it Phil. Great minds think alike! But what's our excuse LOL!

[johnno]

Welcome to Ice In Space Paul,
You will get all the answers you will ever need here,There is some very cluey people to help you.
Regards.
John

[toetoe]

I think alot of us have got or had a small refractor along the type you bought off ebay Paul. the main thing is not to expect fantastic results with the lower end market telescopes, with what you have you will still have great fun viewing some planets and other objects as mentioned in the other post's. Look at it this way Paul, there is only one way to go from where you are in the telescope range :) Anyway, welcome to IIS and if you have a question just ask away.

[33South]

Welcome Paul

I know you asked about planets, but dont underestimate the pleasure that can be had from looking at the Moon in its various phases with a small telescope.


Chris

[RAJAH235]

Hi Paul. :hi: Welcome. Take your time. The universe ain't going anywhere. Got an Astronomy Society/club close by? A visit to them would help you. :D L.

[Noidea]

Thank you for your reply and advice, I will definitely have a look as soon as we get a clear night here in Sydney. You're right about the mount, its very light and wobbly.

[toetoe]

Get a empty 3 litre plastic milk bottle and fill it with water and hang it under the tripod and that should keep it a bit sturdier for you. ;)

[iceman]

Hi Paul.
Where abouts in Sydney are you?

It's not too late to organise to come up to IISAC (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/?iisac) - it's under 2 weeks away now and you'll get to look through MANY different telescopes, both small and large, and you'll get to see what you can see in them - first hand, before spending any more money. You'll also get a feel for how big or small they are, how you could transport them, etc.

Plus, there'll be many friendly people there to meet, chat to and have a great time.

Even if you can only come for 1 night, I think it will be a trip well worth spending.

Failing that, we have viewing nights at Kulnura (on the central coast) every new moon and again you're more than welcome to come along and see the different telescopes in action. There's a group of 6-12 of us who meet up every month to do some observing and have some fun in each others company.

PS: Welcome to the forum! How did you hear about us?

[Noidea]

Thank you for your comments. My budget? Hmmmm, I would like something practical and functional which offers best value for money initially with the option to add features as I get more into this. Initial budget of $500 - $750.

[Noidea]

Thank you for your advice. I am hanging to have a peek at Saturn. I am wondering about Saturn. Does it make an East to West path accross the sky? At what point would it be best to view it? :confuse3:

[iceman]

It's a great time to view Saturn now, and over the next month. At the moment it's rising at about 9:30pm, but wait until it's higher in the sky (it'll be north/north east) before you view it.

[janoskiss]

Oooh! I know this one! 200mm Dobsonian with some optional extras or 250mm Dobsonian with minimal accessories.

As far as accessories go, you will want a collimating tool at least (from $29 for the most basic one). Everything else can wait. Few links:

www.bintelshop.com.au
www.andrewscom.com.au
www.myastroshop.com.au

[ving]

if you want something evenlighter maybe a 90mm refractor from aoe.com.au would be up your alley.... i have a 200mm dob as described by janoskiss and to show you how big they are heres a pic of me with mine
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/8inch_dob/th_Dsc03554.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/8inch_dob/Dsc03554.jpg)

you can get either in your price range

[janoskiss]

How could I forget? Yes, AOE is another great dealer. I found them to be extremely helpful with lots of good advice without slightest pressuring to buy anything, They have Dobs too and tend to be very competative with pricing. You're lucky in Sydney, you have so much choice.

www.aoe.com.au

[ving]

the aoe site seems to be down steve?! :confuse3:

[janoskiss]

Nah, looks good from here. :shrug:

[ballaratdragons]

Or you can go for the BIGGER stuff!

Here is a pic of me with my 12" for size comparison! $799

[Noidea]

Hi Iceman and thanks for the advice. I will try and come along to IISAC. If not the viewing night at Kulnura sounds interesting.

I found this site via Google search looking for information on Planet rise etc.

Paul

[Noidea]

Thank you I will check out your recommendations.

[ving]

screen dump

[ballaratdragons]

It opens fine for me too David!

[Noidea]

Are you serious? Nice Cannon! Looks like good value for money to me. What are those mounts like on uneven surfaces? Thanks for the pic. If I showed you a picture of mine you would die laughing.

[Noidea]

Hi there, impressive hardware. What would the pro's and con's of refractor v's Reflector be?

[Noidea]

Thank you to all who have replied and offered helpful advice to my questions so far. I am surprised at how friendly and helpful you have all been. You have made me feel very welcome here.

I have been a member of several different forums over the years and have been put off by the competitive bragging, sledging and the bad treatment of newbie's. This site sets a good example that others should follow.

Thanks again, Paul

[ballaratdragons]

No bragging here! Coz mine is the best!! LOL!

Yep, they are excellent value for their size!
The good thing about Dobs is that they can be placed on any surface. Uneveness doesn't make any difference.

Dollars v's Aperture to start with! and Reflectors (dobs) collect heaps of light!

[ving]

i dont believe refractor suffer from collimation problems as much... thats just the other side. refractors dont have a central obstruction either....

not taking sides here of course, but there's pros and cons for both sides

[ballaratdragons]

Can't get spiderwebs inside a refractor either! Well, you would hope not!!!!

[janoskiss]

Regarding the pros & cons of different designs, here is a pretty good first-buyer's guide: http://astronomy.concreteairship.com/scope.htm
A bit out of date, with a lot more good telescopes available now for less. But most of the information is still very much relevant.

Sky & Telescope's website also has some articles worth reading. Try starting from here: http://skyandtelescope.com/howto/scopes/

[asimov]

My refractor came from the supplier slightly out of collimation (6" achromatic) But the good thing is once you have collimated close to perfect yourself, it usually stays put. Unless you accidentally give it a hard knock.

[rochler]

Before you take the plunge, it would certainly be a good idea to try a few scopes out for real. Join your local astro club & go to a viewing night. This is a great way to 'try b4 you buy'.

All the different types have their advantages and disadvantages & it's really difficult to advise someone to go one way or the other because it comes down to what you are comfortable with. For example, you might be best off with a Dob. since you get great value for $, but on the other hand you might not like pushing it around. You might like the idea of a reflector on an EQ mount, but find it intimidating to start with etc.

Don't be in a hurry & you won't go wrong. In the meantime enjoy the skies with whatever you have at hand.... ;)

[jjjnettie]

Paul,
With your little refractor, ( mine was from ebay too ) you can see heaps of the brighter objects.
Get yourself a copy of Sky and Telescope or Sky and Space and their maps will help you get started.
I went from my refractor to a 10" dob and I really appreciated the difference.

[ving]

i agree with the above statement... the amount of things i saw thru my little 60mm ebay refracter astounded me. so much!
the more yuo stick at it the more you'll see :)

[Noidea]

I think mine is a reflector. It has the eyepice at the side of the front, and a mirror inside. I understand this to be a reflector, am I correct? :confuse2:

[mickoking]

Yes yours is a reflector :P but its performance would be very similar to a 60mm refractor, the type of scope many of us started off with (and some still use). As jjjnettie and ving implied even thru your scope you should be able to se a fair bit particually when you train your eyes. Learn all you can about astronomy, observe planets, deep sky objects and double stars and when you move to a bigger 'scope you will be a seasoned observer.