Entry Gear to Start Imaging

[Keshdogga]

Hey all,

I am very new to all this and I was hoping I could get some help. I've been having a good hard look into buying my first telescope but I just can't seem to find 'the one'. I originally was looking at a 10'' Dob which i was told was great for a beginer but after being aquainted with some great astroimagers i've decided to sway more into buying a refractor instead of a Dob so I can take those amazing images myself. What I was after was a telescope and camera that would allow me to take great shots of nebula's and clusters, to really get the colour in there. I'm almost completely lost on where to start so any help is much appreciated ;)

Thanks,
Casey

[jjjnettie]

Hi Casey,
It's great to see you decided to join up!
Astro imaging eh.....nothing like diving in at the deep end LOL.
What it really comes down to is your budgetary contraints.
How much money will you have to sink into the hobby?
1. First off you need a decent eq mount. Preferably one that is set up ready to autoguide eg. heq5pro
2. The most popular first scope for imaging is the ED80. It's such a useful size, I couldn't do without mine.
3. A guide scope
4. guide camera
5. a dslr or a ccd

All of these items can be bought second hand, we have a great buy and sell section here on IIS. Sometimes, if you're lucky, an entire imaging set up comes up for sale.

Good luck.

[that_guy]

LOL... what jjj said... ive just started out in imaging, and i dont have a guiding stuff yet, but will be guiding within a few months now i have ST4 Port :) i was thinking of using the finderscope as the guide scope and a philip webcam as the guiding camera.... im imaging on a real budget... :lol: i have a HEQ5 non pro (no guiding capability with out mods) and ED80. great little scope and great mount :thumbsup: i can get 1 minute exposure without getting noticeable trailing... hope this helped :)

cheers.
tony

EDIT: Forgot to add that all my gear is second hand i saved THOUSANDS!!!! got ED80 for 400 (New 899) HEQ5 for 600 (New 1000) and Canon 30D (I have no clue actually LOL)

[Keshdogga]

Hey there Janette =D Nice to hear form you again. I've taken your advice and signed up haha.

I was looking to spend about $800 - $1500 on a telescope (not sure if that's reasonable) and eventually another $400 - $600 on a imaging device that will let me take those ever so alluring nebula shots. I'm not sure about mounts at all and i'm not sure what they'll cost either =S That ED80 looks great. I'm assuming the $1400 doesnt cover the mount lol. I suppose if I'm to get into astronomy i'd better be prepared to pay for it haha.

I was talking to Adrian at the Open night last night (horrible cloud cover all night D=) about cameras/webcams. He gave me a great offer, if I wanted to come up to the observatory some time and he could show me the basics on how to take images =] Maybe that'll take me out of the deap end a bit.

I will keep an eye out for those packages for sale on this site =] Those bundles would be great to stumble accross.

But anyway say I did get that ED80, how much do you think i'd be spending before I start to get my first images?

Good to here from you,
Casey

[Keshdogga]

That sounds alot like where I see myself in a while haha =]

Thanks for the help, I'm really hoping to get a second hand deal as well if the opportunity arises haha. The ED80 i saw was something like $1400, maybe i'm looking at the wrong thing haha.

Again, Thanks for the help =P
Casey

[that_guy]

sure you werent looking at a Tak?! LOLOL!!

[Keshdogga]

I'm having a good look at the Orion ED80 and it's looking exactly like what I'm after. Great for general viewing but also very good for DS imaging (so the reviews have said). I'd be more than willing to pay $500 for a scope like that. But what I'm still not sure about is which mount to look into. That Heq5 mount looks great and not that expensive by the look of it. Would I also then have to buy additional lenses? I appologise for my naivety =P I'm trying to learn alot at once haha.

[mithrandir]

I know you said Orion, but there are also two models of ED80 from Skywatcher. One is the ED80 (https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=7290) (around $600), and the other is the BD-ED80 (https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=8117) (around $950). Those are Bintel's prices. You can shop around.

[leon]

Casey, there are some who only do imaging and then some that only do visual work, bot are very rewarding indeed.

However is a sport in its self, so to speak, and can become additive and very expensive, if you want to get those long deep images you see on the Deep Space threads.

I suggest you team up with a few people from here that do this sort of stuff and just see what it involves, rather than just jumping in a having a go then finding out that you need to upgrade to get the results you wish to achieve.

Some of the imagers on this site, including myself have spent many years to perfect the passion and have massive and hugely expensive rigs, although I have recently sold my set-up

Take it easy and move into the imaging game slowly, and you will be rewarded.

Below is a pic of what i used, don't be disheartened
Leon

[Ivyking]

That setup looks like it can shoot down planes!
Or spy on satellites

[OzRob]

Andrews Communications (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm) has the ED80 on a EQ5Pro for $1799 or on a HEQ5Pro for $1999. I think the only difference is that the HEQ5Pro is rated to carry an extra 3kg so should be a little more stable.

[leon]

Yep just about (Boff) :shrug: :lol: :lol:

Leon :thumbsup:

[Keshdogga]

This Orion or Skywatcher ED80 looks like what I'll go for in terms of telescope =] It apparently has a great DS ability which I'm very much looking forward to :D After what's been said I gather these HEQ5pro and EQ5pro mounts are rather expensive? Not saying $1500 is expensive in this hobby =P If there is any cheaper mounts that'll do relatively the same thing? If not that's all good =D just asking.

Leon that is one amazing piece of machinery you have there. Perhaps I could get to that stage someday... in a few decades ;)

[that_guy]

Theres a HEQ5 Pro on sale on iis classified for 900.. its a good deal and i think theres an ed80 for sale too?

good luck
tony

[Keshdogga]

Just got in touch with Rob (Em1gma) who's selling the lot =] He's pretty much selling the exact set up i've been looking for to get me into imaging. I would love to buy straight away but i'd also like to have a further look around the field before comitting to a $3300 setup. I'm pretty certain this is where i want to go but I'm a bit weary i'm going to fast :rolleyes:

[En1gma]

Hey Tony,

Had a chat with Casey.

Unfortunately my house deposit comes first to my astronomy apparently. Regretful that I am selling but such a coincidence.



Great words there. What I had done is research every ounce there is on the net and then applied all I had learned into my first serious astrophoto.

It can be a steep learning curve, so go at a pace you are comfortable with and know what you want to get out of this Hobby/Science.

Everyone here on IIS is more than happy to help

Regards,
Robert

[Keshdogga]

I had a look yesterday and toady into DSI CCD cameras and they're really appealing to me =P I'm looking to get a CCD camera rather than a Nikon or Cannon. On that note which set up is better for imaging, Cannon/Nikon camera's or CCD's?

Here's the links to the 2 cheapy's i'm looking at =]

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=319-320-445-7840

In particular
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=319-320-1116-15139

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if they're worth investing in =D I really want to get into DSI but still wouldn't mind occasionally doing some planetery imaging. If they require two different types of cameras well i suppose i'll have to buy 2 different kinds =]

Many thanks,
Casey

[En1gma]

My recommendation for a beginner is definitely the dslr route. One of the big benefits are, you can still use them for daytime and are very user friendly.

If you want a dslr that will capture more of the 656nm wavelength (hydrogen alpha) this is where modification of the camera comes into play by removing and replacing the stock uv/ir cutoff filter.

Usually at this fork is where you decide. Should I go for a dedicated ccd or modify my camera.

[NorthernLight]

Hi Casey,

I am not entirely sure about the latest Nikon cameras but all the previous versions had a automated routine called "the stareater". This routine is supposed to eliminate artefacts like hot pixels in an image and is responsible for deleting stars (that is thinks are hot pixels). They are ways around (like switching off the camera after the exposure) but you will find that most people use Canon cameras.

Don´t get too fussed about the H-alpha wavelenghts. Only reflection nebulae emit light in this wavelenght and most of their light can be captured without modding. It adds more detail, sure, but you still get the picture. Clusters, Planets and Galaxies shine pretty much only in DSLR- recordable- wavelenghts.

The other benefit of a DSLR is that you have a much larger picture and a much larger field of view than with a DSI. The DSI sensor is about 1.3 mega pixel, DSLR´s don´t start below 10. This acts on the DSI side like a crop factor, meaning an image produced with the Skywatcher ED80 (that is the same as the Skywatcher Black Diamond ED80 without carry case and with standard-non 10:1-Crayford focuser) shows much more sky when photographed with a DSLR than with the DSI. So you can capture larger nebulae in one shot and don´t have to take multiple shots of different parts and mosaic them to one image.

You can also use the DSLR with a standard lens to produce widefield images like http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=68025

The Meade DSI series is not cooled, has a small sensor and and cannot be used for daytime photography. It´s only advantage is that it doesn´t have an IR blocking filter.

You can easily get a Canon DSLR with lenses for the price of the DSI III.

Cheers

[stanlite]

here is what i did for a basic setup all brand new.

HEQ5PRO SynScan "Go-To" equatorial mount and tripod $1099 from Andrews
Orion Awesome Autoguider Package $599 from bintel ... this will give you a auto guide ccd which will be great in the long run ... also this scope is a great guide scope ... however probably not the greatest thin for long term astrophotography.

CANON EOS 1000D Digital SLR Twin Lens Kit $743 this gives you a good DSLR that you can also use outside of astro if you find you should not enjoy it (hey it happens) from dick smiths

Orion Deluxe Off-Axis Guider $169 bintel so you can guide for really long astro shots.

Total price - $2610

[Keshdogga]

Hey grady I've been looking at a setup very similar to what you described which i suppose is very comforting =]

Is this the Orion autoguider package you were talking about?

http://www.telescope.com/control/telescopes/refractor-telescopes/orion-awesome-autoguider-refractor-telescope-package

It's not from Bintel but it costs $399. Ahh just found the Bintel version

http://www.bintel.com.au/OrionAutoguider.html

It appears to be the exact same product except $200 cheaper =D

Thanks for the help guys!
And thanks Max for that advice on camera's. I'm definately going Canon =]

[stanlite]

yeah casey i think you will find that that price is in US dollars so you will need to add shipping and exchange rate into the 399 given the weight of the scope and size might not be cheap. plus warrenty would be based in the US not Australia ... just something to think about

[tlgerdes]

Actually Max, it is the other way around emission nebula emit large amounts of HA. Some of it can be seen (10-20%) by un-modded DSLRs but most of it is hidden.

[NorthernLight]

you´re right Trevor it is the other way around for nebulae.

[Hagar]

Hi and welcome Casey. Lots of things need to be taken into account to get you imaging successfully.

First and most important is the mount which carries and controls almost all of your imaging quality. The mount should be the very best you can afford. A HEQ5Pro will do the job but for an extra small amount you can get an EQ6Pro which is more sturdy, has a greater carrying capacity (allows for future upgrades of telescope, camera and general hardware)and larger operating gears which makes guiding smoother. The mount must also have an ST4 guide port in it's control system.

Next is the guiding. This doesn't need to be anything flash as long as it is fitted to whatever imaging scope you choose very rigidly. A basic guide camera with ST4 Guide output or a shoestring astronomy GPUSB adapter to interface with the guide port.

Next is your imaging scope. This is a personal choice item. An ED80 will give you lovely wide field images encompassing almost all of the major nebulas in our sky. If you want to image small galaxies the ed80 is probably a little short on focal length. The unfortunate thing is that there is no one scope fits all in imaging.

You will of course need a camera. This is again a personal choice item. You can look at the likes of a DSI, DSLR, One shot colour CCD or a mono CCD and colour filters. All of these vary quite a lot in cost and learning curve. My recommendation would be a DSLR, unmodified. This gives you an imaging camera which can be used for happy snaps as well as the astro work.

Whichever way you go you will need some method of attaching the camera to the telescope. This is relatively simple a T adapter is the usual method and quite inexpensive.

You will also need either a field flattener or comma corrector, depending on your choice of telescope. This can be expensive but some less expensive products are available which work quite well.

The one thing I will say is be prepared to spend at least twice what you expect at the moment. There is always something better coming on the market which helps or improves the end result. The biggest expense is going to be your mount and my advice is to buy the best you can afford with the best carrying capacity you can afford and don't load it to heavily. If you stick with a target loading of no more than 2/3 of the rated capacity you will find your guiding is better and your overall images will be better.


Good luck with this very costly, bottomless expence hobbie.

[mswhin63]

Hi Casey,

When I first started Astro stuff I didn't know what I really wanted. I had a limited budget and made a lot of mistakes. Although these mistake gave me a fast learning curve to optics I think I would have done things a little differently.

I have just recently taken my first EQ shot with my DOB and I can say this without reservation your mount is the most important.
I also found that a guide scope would have been a good idea as my first image of M42 and 43 I took 65 images and was only able to use 17 in the final image. - http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/attachment_browse.php?a=85329

I manually guided my scope so for me it was a good view of the old way of imaging, again I now have that experience and quite happy to experience a bit more manual guiding before spending more money on more complex aligning methods.

Camera, DSLR is a good starter and I use mine for happy snaps as well as AP and it is unmodded. I also use a webcam for planetary.

You have one advatange over me as you have decided what you want to specifically do, so you initially budget can be tide to AP while mine was initially all over the place. I do not regret my path as it gave me an enormous amount of XP and understanding of the hardware.

Good luck with deciding.

[RobF]

I probably should have posted the link to this Craig Stark presentation in here rather than the beginner's astrophotography thread. Some good issues for beginner and intermediate imagers to consider covered nicely.

http://www.aicccd.com/archive/aic200...ronomy_AIC.pdf (http://www.aicccd.com/archive/aic2009/Craig_Stark_AffordableAstronomy_AIC .pdf)

[Keshdogga]

Hey Guys

Thanks for all the great advice you've given me =D Thanks to everyone, I'm on my way to owning all this precious gear haha. I've just paid Rob (En1gma) for his awesome HEQ5pro mount which I'm now enthusiastically waiting for and have lined up the remaining equipment which I intend to purchase in the very near future. Doug I can see why you told me the expect to pay double what I expected. 2 months ago I thought I could get a decent imaging setup for under $1000 but am now spending roughly $3500 haha. I don't have a huge budget so I can't afford to go to that EQ6 level just yet. Maybe sometime in the future but unfortunately, I can't afford it now. Besides, Rob has his mount going for a great price and I'm glad I found it haha. I can't say anything for sure yet as I haven't begun imaging yet but from what I've seen I know it's what I want to do.

So far this is what I've been looking at
Mount - HEQ5pro (bought)
Imaging Scope - Skywatcher ED80 https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=8117
Imaging Camera - Modded Canon 400D (buying tomorrow)
Guide Scope/Guide Camera - Orion Awesome Autoguider Package https://www.bintelshop.com.au/welcome.htm
Field Flattener - http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-016B I don't know alot about field flatteners but I shall do some more research =]

Malcolm that is a fantastic picture I can't wait to start getting images that look even remotely like that. It's my first and foremost goal to get a kick ass picture of The Great Nebula In Orion haha. It's great to be reassured that even if I don't make the right choice in whichever equipment it may be it'll always be a learning curve.

Again, thanks to everyone for thier advice I do read every post at least twice =P

Cheers,
Casey

[mswhin63]

Thanks casey, Orion is a very good beginner object, With your ED80 you will need to take longer exposures than me mine where only 10 seconds at ISO 1600 but with you cool mount you should easily snap that in. You will also be able to work with lower ISO too.

One other thing something I learn't while imaging this is that I have 1500mm FL while yours is 600mm and will easily get this in but will look small in the final image. I know that I want to get a lower FL in the future for wider field. Again with your mount you can add to a take away in the future what ever you want, great choice.

Enjoy enjoy and remember it is highly addictive. We have about a week of bad weather coming and I am already getting DT's :)

[OzRob]

You might like to consider the William Optics Megrez 72 that is in the for sale section for $500 LINK (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=657991#post657991)

There is a recent thread about this scope here (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=67758).

[Keshdogga]

Hey Rob

Thanks to you and Paul (1ponders) I'm now getting the WO 72 and the ED80 and using one as a guidescope =]

Thanks a heap

[that_guy]

YAY!!! WHOO!! youll be pumpin images in no time :thumbsup:

[Keshdogga]

I hope so Tony =] Can't wait! :thumbsup: