What Telescope?

[cjmarsh81]

Howdy all.

I am new to Astronomy. I have never used an astronomical telescope before. I would like to get into the hobby as it really interests me.

My question is which telescope to get. I have read reviews on the internet to get a dobsonian as a first telescope and move up from there. I would prefer to go straight out and buy a skywatcher 200mm telescope with the appropriate lenses and filters.

Starting out I would like to view the moon and planets and progress later to stars/nebulae etc.

What lenses do I need? For you regulars out there what do you use? Reflector/Refractor/cassegrain? What will give me the best performance for the price. I am looking at spending around $1500 on a telescope/accessories. What do you suggest?

All help will be appreciated!

[[1ponders]]

Look out cjmarsh. you are about to be inundated by the dobbing fraternity. So being an EQer with SCT and refractors I'll get in first. Get a dob. :rofl: For $1500 you will pick up a great buy of either a 10" or 12" GS Dob and have lots of room left for good quality eyepieces. If you go the 10" at around $700 you can get the really really really good eyepieces, but if you get the 12" you only get the really really good eyepieces.

JM2CW but what do I know I take pictures:lol:, so the above is sort of a summary of the advice you are about to receive. :rofl:

[mickoking]

DOBS ROOL, seriously 200-250mm Dob is an ideal scope for not only a newby but also a seasoned observer. you can't go wrong.

[ving]

a 200m saxon dob is a good start :)
you'll see heaps with it. for $1500 you can get more aperture tho :)

[RAJAH235]

Hi cj. :hi: & :welcome:
You will not go wrong if you remember the #1 'Golden Rule'. That is 'Aperture wins'.
Starting out with at least a 10" f4.5/5 dob would be my suggestion.
The tubes are relatively short in length, easily transportable in small cars, will give great views, are easy to keep in collimation & assist with you learning the night sky.
They can be modified to do 'almost' the same as most driven t'scopes.
The FIRST thing that I would do tho, is get myself to a club meeting night/observing night to 'SEE' what is avail.
There are just too many options.......... but do not skimp on eye pieces or barlow lens.
HTH. :D L.

[mick pinner]

IF $1500.00 is your limit then l suppose a dob is the way to go, but beware if like some others you look at the photos on the site and deciede l want to do that now then a dob will not be for you, yes you can image through a dob but it's not really a job for a new guy, if you think astrophography might become a passion then a bit of saving and maybe go for an eq platform with some sort of go-to.

[cjmarsh81]

Sorry, I did not clarify the telescope I am looking at. It is a Skymaster SKP2001HEQ5. It has an HEQ5 mount. 200mm Diameter and F/5 400x practical power. Check out this link http://www.skywatchertelescope.com/2001PEQ5.html. I can get it for AUD $1350, and the guy said he would do a deal if I bought lenses at the same time. (http://www.skywatchertelescope.com/2001PEQ5.html)

[iceman]

Have you looked at MyAstroShop (http://www.myastroshop.com.au)?

They sell skywatcher newtonians, both in dob base and EQ mounted. They are a great price, and you'll get great service (pre and post sales) by one of australia's most reputable amateur astronomers.

[iceman]

PS: How did you hear about us?

:welcome: to the forum!

[ving]

well thats a different story!
sounds like a good one then :)

[cjmarsh81]

Thanks Iceman. yes that is a lot cheaper than the one I have been looking at

[cjmarsh81]

Iceman, I spent most of the afternoon searching the internet for a decent astronomy forum. Believe me, there are not many around.

[iceman]

In Australia, you're right about that! I hope you like it here and come back often!

There's plenty of great advice to be given so just ask plenty of questions.

Where abouts in NSW are you?

[cjmarsh81]

I am in Newcastle. Currently suburbia, so don't know what kind of views I will get with a telescope. However, will be moving to Far North Queensland next year (country) and so should have no street lights etc.

[iceman]

Have you checked out NAS? (Newcastle Astronomy Society)

Several IceInSpace members also belong to the NAS, and they'll be more than happy to have you along to their viewing nights or meetings to show you some of their telescopes.

You should also consider coming to our new moon observing nights at Kulnura, with is just south of you by about an hour. We usually have IceInSpace members from the Central Coast, Sydney and Newcastle coming every month, and it's a great fun time.

Also, please check out the IceInSpace AstroCamp (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/?iisac), happening at the end of this month just north/west of you. There'll be over 50 people there with different types of telescopes and you'll get to see through them and try before you buy!

Steve Massey (from MyAstroShop) might also be there so you can have a chat to him in person.

Hope to see you there!

[davidpretorius]

if this tracks, i assume it does as slow motion tracking adjustments, then it looks great, but if not and you aren't sure about really wanting tracking, go a 12" dob!

[mickoking]

"IN AUSTRALIA" you sell your self and IIS short ice, ice baby. This is THE astronomy forum on the planet, no question.

[cjmarsh81]

Hi There. For all you NAS members out there. Do you still meet at the Newcastle University on the last friday of every month? Could not find out much more on your website. Is this a viewing night, the website says it is a night for lectures and seminars. I am interested in checking out some telescopes before I go and buy one.

[cjmarsh81]

Hi all!

After going through the forums on this site I have changed my mind on the telescope I am going to get. Yes it is a Dob.

I am now looking at the skywatcher 8" or 10". Any recommendations? Does anyone know anything about the skywatcher brand? Which brand do you recommend?

What lenses do I need. I am interested in Planets and now also DSO's

[mickoking]

I think you have made a wise choice in scope. A 250mm Dob will show more than it's smaller 200mm brother but it's also larger to transport either way you will have a fine scope. With regards to skywatcher products I think most people will agree they are great value for money and their product is improving all the time. I personally own a 120mm skywatcher refractor and its a joy to use.

As for lenses I assume you mean eyepieces. When you purchase a scope like the skywatcher (Dob) they will chuck in a few 'resonable' quality eyepieces to get you started. But if and when you want to assemble some quality eyepieces (recommended) start of with a low power (25-20mm) and a moderate high power (approx 10mm) and from there your eyepiece collection will grow in the direction of your observing prefrences. I lean towards Deep sky observing so most of my eyepieces are low to medium power with only a few high power e/p's. Many are also wide angle and I dont own a barlow lens.

I hope my waffle has helped ;) chill

[Robert_T]

Good luck with the new scope. No doubt either of these would be a good start with a decision on which mostly dependent on your capacity to transport the larger 10in. I wont try and lure you from Dobbing to the dark side of equatorialising... maybe another time:wink2:

cheers,

[cjmarsh81]

Yes, sorry I did mean eyepieces not lenses.

I think the dob comes with a 10mm and a 20mm eyepiece. I will try these for a while and work out what I need after that.

Obviously the 10" will recieve more light than the 8". Everywhere I look people give samples from the 8" and they only show planets, whereas the 10" has nice DSO pictures of nebulae etc. Does this mean an 8" is incapable of DSO and can only see planets?

Nowhere I look gives the dimensions of the Dob's I am looking at. I have seen an 8" scope in a telescope shop here in Newcastle so I know the size of it. Is the 10" much bigger?

Yes, thankyou Micko this all helps.

[RAJAH235]

cj, for comparison of telescopes limiting magnitudes >
http://www.go.ednet.ns.ca/~larry/astro/maglimit.html
http://www.celestron.com/tb-trms.htm
All t'scopes will 'see' objects. It's just the amount of detail/resolution etc that is set by the smaller sizes.
That is why the #1 rule = 'Aperture wins'.
Not sure of the physical differences but the 10" @ f5??? should only be 50" long.
eg; My 10" f4.5 is 45" long.
The 8" @ f7??? (please correct here guys), would then be 56" long. (approx).
I think Ken had a link showing the dimensions/weights etc . PM him?
HTH a bit. :D L.

[janoskiss]

Don't know what you mean by "samples" from the scopes, but the 8 & 10" Dobs are comparable in performance on both planets and DSOs. Yes you see a bit more in the 10", though it is a fairly subtle difference. When you are trying to tease detail out of faint objects.

The 10" is considerably larger. Not much taller, but bulkier. Get the biggest scope that you can afford and are comfortable with lugging around. The 8" is huge when you show your non-astro friends, but it looks like a baby scope at a star party. :D

Check out the photos of 8, 10 & 12" GS Dobs here: (and a 10" Saxon one too)

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5075

[cjmarsh81]

Hi everybody.

Another question. Collimation. With a 10" Dob how often does it need collimating? Should I buy a collimation tool when I buy the scope or is it something I can get later.

myastroshop have an optex laser collimator for $99. Will this work ok with a skywatcher 10" Dob. Think it will but better make sure.

P.S. I appreciate all the help from everybody!!

[davidpretorius]

cj,

if you travel around with it a lot ie bump it, then i would check the collimation each time.

The smaller secondary mirror near the top needs to be collimated once a year ish.

The primary needs to be checked quite frequently.

Now there are threads and thread and lotsa thoughts on collimation. Laser colimation seemed to been a real "thing" to do, but good old mechanical collimation with a cheshire seems to be making a comeback.

I have a cheshire and believe i will always use it. I want to buy a laser as well. I want two methods. I would recommend a longer sight tube / cheshire for a 10" dob. The sight tube does the secondary, the cheshire does the primary.

If you want to be real precise, you then do star tests.

Do not try and take the following articles all in one hit as collimation is an ongoing learning curve.

first:
http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/Astronomy/collimate.htm
second:
http://legault.club.fr/collim.html

[janoskiss]

My 8" holds collimation very well, even after long trips on bumpy roads. I check collimation every time I observe, but usually it's fine or it only needs the slightest nit-picking tweak.

[cjmarsh81]

Hello

Can someone please tell me when and where the Newcastle Astronomical Society have their viewing nights. I would like to look through a couple of scopes before I go and buy one.

Thanks

[RAJAH235]

cj, here's the link, but it doesn't appear to be up at present......:shrug:
www.nas.org.au
:D L.

[DRCORTEX]

Andrews www.andrewscom.com.au (http://www.andrewscom.com.au) have a GSO collimator going for $79


Neo

[barees63]

If that is the same as my GSO laser collimator don't expect too much, they are poorly made and don't fit well in the GSO focuser, I had to replace the laser unit in mine since it had a badly elongated "dot" and then to cap it all I discovered that laser collimators are not a really solution in themselves, from what little I've learned you'd be better to spend the money on a cheshire/sight-tube..

[davidpretorius]

i agree, go a longer "orion??" sight tube / cheshire

[cjmarsh81]

Hello again

Can anyone tell me if there is a decent telescope shop in Newcastle. I have gone to the Telescope/Instrument shop in broadmeadow and although he is very friendly, I am not very impressed for the following three reasons.

1. He keeps trying to talk me out of a Dob (I think he wants to move his EQ mounts)
2. Has never heard of a collimation tool
3. Says that the scope will come collimated from the factory and will never need doing again (I wish this were so).

I will probably end up ordering my scope from myastroshop, but would like to know if there is a shop in Newcastle I can walk into and see one in person first.

[cjmarsh81]

Hello Everyone.

I have just ordered my scope :lol:
A 10" Skywatcher Dobsonian from the Survey and Instrument shop in Newcastle.

Scope is $750 and I ordered a 6.3mm Plossl for an extra $90.

I should have it next tuesday or wednesday. :)

[iceman]

How come you ordered it from there after the points you said above? :shrug:

$90 for a 6.3mm plossl is very expensive. I'm afraid to say I think you paid too much. Is it too late to cancel the order?

But you should be happy with the scope.

[iceman]

Does the scope come with any other eyepieces?

[davidpretorius]

congrats mate,

i suggest a fresh set of sheets for the new arrival. After you have explained to the better half that the telescope must sleep in the bed, you will need to align your bed north / south. It helps with collimation. If it looks silly in the bedroom, then realign the house!

Get out your sticky tape and coloured pieces of paper ready for collimation

http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/Astronomy/collimate.htm

[cjmarsh81]

Iceman,

If the 6.3mm plossl is too expensive I will change it to a barlow.

I got it there because his price is $180 cheaper than anywhere else I have seen it.

It also comes with a 10mm and a 20mm. He said he could change the 20mm to a 25mm for me if I wanted to. Is this a good idea.

[iceman]

What brand of plossl is it?

[cjmarsh81]

I thought plossl was the brand. No I don't know what the brand is.

He said he could sell me a barlow for $90. Is that a good price, before I call him back to change it?

[davidpretorius]

i would ring him, find out what brand for the plossl & the barlow, so we can make sure you don't get taken for a ride!

[cjmarsh81]

got him on phone now, eyepiece and barlow are optex

[iceman]

Depends on the brand of barlow :)

I think it's worth ringing up and asking what brand the eyepieces and barlow are.

Plossl is the "design". The brand might be GSO, Synta, Celestron, etc.

[iceman]

I wouldn't get any eyepieces or barlows through him then. I'm not sure what Optex is a clone of, but you'd be better off getting a known brand from MyAstroShop, Bintel or Andrews (GSO, Synta, Televue, etc), depending on your budget.

[cjmarsh81]

ok, I will only get the scope from him then. I will keep the 10mm and 20mm that come with the scope (Don't know what brand they are - come from skywatcher)

Thanks all for your quick help!

[davidpretorius]

i would go a 10mm and a 25mm and a 2x barlow. That would give you 5mm (10mm with the 2x barlow), 10mm, 12.5mm (20mm with the 2x barlow) and 25mm. A nice range!

The 6.3mm plossl for 90 bucks would want to be very good! And given you will probably only a few times a month when the conditions are right to use a 6.3mm, then it is a lot of $$ for something you may not use all the time.

Up to you on the 2x barlow from him as it will all come together with the scope, but as Ice says, I would suggest a known brand. You can get cheaper barlows, or for not much more you can get the orion shorty plus (make sure it is the plus) which is a fantasic 2x barlow from all accounts.

[cjmarsh81]

I have just called him and told him I am only going to get the scope at the moment. All additional eyepieces and barlows will come from myastroshop.

I will not change the 20mm to a 25mm as the only ones he has are optex. I don't know what these are like.

While on topic, would I need two barlows? ie one 1.25" and one 2", or do I simply put a 2-1.25 reducer in.

[davidpretorius]

will you be getting any 2" eyepieces?

[cjmarsh81]

I don't know yet. Is there any advantage to a 2" eyepiece?

[davidpretorius]

i wouldn't bother at this stage until you work out which way to go.

Stick with 1.25" as it is very common size. In a few years you may fork out on a $500 2" televue for deep sky viewing and then the same again for a 2" powermate, but until then do not bother i reckon.

You may choose to look at some 2" ultrawide that are sub $200 for deep sky stuff, but again later. Do not base your initial outlay around 2" stuff. Add it as you need it!

[janoskiss]

Forget about buying any accessories from this dealer.

They are way too expensive for what they are. Some of the best polssls are made by televue and they are $145 each new. The only ones that I've seen for more (hugely overpriced) were the Celestron Ultimas. But even then, $270 ($90 + the supposed $180 discount) for a plossl is unheard of! You can get premium eyepieces for that amount.

Someone was selling an Optex barlow for $30 on the Buy&Sell forums just a few days ago. So it can't be worth all that much. Basic but functional new barlows barlows can be had for around $50.

More on barlows... Unlike many other members, I cannot recommend the Orion Shorty Plus. I found it to be a poor performer with all types of eyepieces (budget and premium) and I would avoid using it whenever I could (yellowing of edge of field, poor contrast, lots of scattered light, internal reflections). It was definitely a lousy barlow, worth maybe $60, not the $140 I paid for it. But maybe I got a dud.. :shrug: I have a 2" University Optics barlow now and it is just superb and I love using it. Costs about the same as the Shorty-Plus new (maybe $20 more).

[cjmarsh81]

Thanks for that. I will use it for a while before I decide on any more accessories.

Now all I have to do is wait until next tuesday or wednesday when it comes in. Can't wait!

[cjmarsh81]

The $180 price difference is just on the scope not the eyepiece.

He was giving me $20 off of the eyepieces, ie he sells his 6.3mm optex plossl normally for $110.

Don't worry, I am not getting any accessories from this store. I am only getting the scope there as he has it for a very cheap price.

[davidpretorius]

book in collimation and assembly time only, as the unforseen low pressure trough will arrive over your house exactly 1 hr after it has arrived and just as you have almost assembled it. It will rain for many nights and be beautifully sunny during the day, well up until you almost get home and then it will rain again. It will stop raining after you go to sleep!!!

ways to please the weather gods vary, but a rough cardboard altar of a nagler and making flower offerings whilst nude is recommended!!!

[janoskiss]

They are probably fine. I would very much doubt that they would be any worse than what comes with the scope. So I would go for the 25mm instead of the 20mm. The 25 + 10mm are probably an ideal starter pair.

FYI: A quick google search for
optex plossl site:.au
will find you Optex plossls for $55 within Australia (incuding the 6.3mm).


The University Optics 2" barlow has to be one of the the best value for money barlows around. I spent many hours observing with it and I still cannot get over how good it is. Yes it will work with both 1.25" and 2" eyepieces.. Did I mention that the Shorty-Plus was a waste of money and a huge disappointment? Maybe go with the televue 2x barlow if you want to stick with the 1.25" format (which you might to save on weight).

But for starters it might be worth you getting an inexpensive 2x barlow, $20-$30 second hand, just so you can up the magnification occasionally. I am sure there are many unused barlows around. Just put a Wanted ad in the Buy&Sell forum. ;)

[danielsun]

you crack me up Dave ,but that is so true!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[danielsun]

Have you seen the EP's that come with the scope? if they are silver with black stamped writing on them i think they may be from synta and they are not bad starter EP's. I still use mine now and then and if so go the 25 over the 20.

[cjmarsh81]

No I haven't seen the eyepieces yet. They weren't really sure what they are in the store, they just thought they were a 10 and 20mm. I will take whatever comes from Skywatcher and go from there.

In the next couple of weeks I will order a barlow from myastroshop and this should extend my range a bit.

I want to buy the best quality barlow I can afford, I know Dave said he uses Vixon. Which are the best and what price range am I looking at for a decent barlow. I would prefer a good one now, so when I get good eyepieces down the track I do not have to change the barlow.

I just checked the skywatcher website and the myastroshop site, and they both say the same thing. They say the scope comes with a single eyepiece, a 28mm 2inch. Will have to wait and see what I get before I make any decisions on additional eyepieces. If I get a chance I will call him tomorrow and get him to find out what I am actually getting.

[cjmarsh81]

Hello All!

I have my telescope! A 10" Dobsonian Mounted Skywatcher Scope. It is HUGE! 9x50 Finder Scope

Came with a 10mm and 25mm super plossl eyepiece (No brand, probably skywatcher)

Took it outside and aligned the finder scope by looking at a large power line pole (Big metal one, not the normal wooden street poles) I could focus on the bolts!!!

Looks to be cloudy nights all week (of course). Probably won't be able to use it properly for a little while. Oh well, will spend time making some sort of stand with wheels so I can move the thing around.

[janoskiss]

Good stuff! Sounds like you're pretty much ready to go! Have you read all about collimation? Have you checked? Does your scope have a marker in the centre (i.e., centre spot). If not, check this out:

http://skyandtelescope.com/howto/scopes/article_787_1.asp

Re. the barlow, I don't think they come much better than the University Optics 2" which can be had from Frontier Optics (www.frontieroptics.com) for approx $150, which makes it the best value barlow around. Otherwise, everyone who tried them seems to love Televue Powermates, but they start at $310 for the 1.25" format, $450 or so for the 2". I still think you should probably get a 2nd hand inexpensive barlow to begin with. The cost is insignificant compared with top-shelf stuff, and you can always resell to another new scope owner when you're ready to upgrade.

[davidpretorius]

well done,

aligned the finder - excellent
start with some basic collimation
enjoy!!!

orion = excellent

saturn = a mind blower!

[cjmarsh81]

The bottom mirror does have a ring in the centre for collimation

Have relatives over tonight, so collimation will have to wait until tomorrow. Cloudy sky tonight anyway.

[davidpretorius]

excellent, that make a $29 cheshire or more expensive sightube/cheshire easy to collimate



mmmmmaaaaattttteee!!

what are you trying to say??????
look the relatives will know where to find you, just don't let em touch the scope!!!

cmon fellow forum members, this new guy is having those guilt issues about the family thingymebobs!!!

set the precedent straight away, family is not to interrupt astronomy at any time!!!

clouds can disappear at any time and the seeing conditions may turn out to be 10/10 and you would have missed it.

believe me, your kids will be in uni before you tear your eyes away from your scope.

there are astronomers anonymous groups every new moon, so you can chat to fellow sufferers, stay up all night and then go to work!!!

you can't pull out on us now!!!

[janoskiss]

Bewdiful! :thumbsup:

[Mikezoom]

Kekeke, lol DP, sounds familiar.

Mike.