Samsung SCC-A2333 1st light report

[ballaratdragons]

Well, I finally had a clear night after weeks and weeks of Rain, cloud and storms. A great way to end our Eleven year drought! :rolleyes:

I got to test out my Samsung SCC-A2333 CCTV camera for 'LIVE' Astro broadcasting.

This model Samsung offers:
Lux rating at 0.0000006 in night mode at full x512 sens-up, 10.25 seconds integration and a 1/2" SONY Ex-View HAD IT CCD Chip.

The in-camera IR filter is a mechanical device that slides in and out of the front of the chip.

Up until this test run I had only been able to video the Moon for about 1/2 an hour.
The one chance I had at DSO's only lasted 5 minutes due to rain.

Now, I can happily report that I spent several hours on DSO's with great results.
Initially I had a bizarre rectangle of light similar to an inner reflection, but no matter what I tried it would not go away.

Enter Martin Ferlito (see_ate) up in Sydney! Martin very patiently went through my whole set-up with me step by looooong step, until the only step left was to return to 'Factory Default' settings and start again.
I even allowed the in-camera IR filter to operate again. I had previously locked it open.

Once this was done the camera finally behaved and after adjusting and re-adjusting all the settings it gave crystal clear beautiful coloured Live video of the Tarantula Nebula in the Large Magellanic Cloud, the Fornax Galaxy Cluster, NGC253 Silver Coin Galaxy, 47Tuc Globular Cluster and some small faint Galaxies in Telescopium.

Not only were these images quite good, they were through thin cloud and with the Moon shining bright!


Summary: This camera has turned out to be better than I expected.
The in-camera IR filter doesn't seem to dull images compared to no filter, and does it's job of tidying up the stars.
The 1/2" Sony chip is so sensitive that Nebulae was blowing out too bright at 5 seconds integration. Results were better at 2.5 seconds. So the full 10.25 seconds should reveal those extremely faint objects.

Thank you to all of you that visited my broadcast while doing this first DSO test. I appreciated your comments :thumbsup:

Equipment: Saxon 120mm f5 Refractor with x0.6 Focal Reducer, EQ6 mount, Samsung SCC-A2333 CCTV camera @ 2.5 seconds integration, colour mode, Video Grabber, Laptop, broadcast live on NightSkiesNetwork.

Remember, these cameras are not for high quality imaging and stacking. They are for 'Live' broadcasting. The following images are Screen Grabs of live video.

Images from this first test night on NightSkiesNetwork:

1. Satellite passing under Tarantula Nebula in LMC
2. NGC253 Silver Coin Galaxy
3. 47Tuc (needs lower integration time)

Thanks all :)

[DavidU]

Nice detailed report Ken, I think you have found a very cool camera.
I was amazed when you told me the sensitivity was .0000006 lux !!!
I'm saving my pennys.

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Dave.

And I finally got all these fantastic views on the one night you weren't in there watching :lol:

[erick]

Nor me :sadeyes: OK, next time! :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Yeah, sorry Eric.
It was raining till about 8pm, then I set up after that.
It was a late start.

Yep, next time :)

[netwolf]

Ken great find and good show last night, only sorry i could not see all of it. Glad you sorted out your issues. I thought Martin must have the paitence of a Saint.

I hope as we get closer to the new moon that we get to see some more magic from this camera.

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks for coming in again and viewing, Fahim :thumbsup:

Yeah, Martin really hung in there for me. Even when I was doubting his suggestions :screwy:
And he was right :P

[lacad01]

That's excellent Ken. I saw the post on Cloudy Nights and have been reading up with interest on these Samsung cameras. How do you find the noise on that camera at those sense-up settings?

[JohnG]

Good stuff Ken :thumbsup:

Looking forward to seeing the camera in operation at Snake Valley.

Was watching the other night but not logged on, must have gave it away just before you got it up and running, was watching your strange rectangle :D.

Cheers mate.

[ozskywatcher]

Fantastic images.

With your webcasting, are you able to use software to automatically upload the images? I did a small amount of webcasting a few years ago with a web cam and was able to find some software to do this. It didn't have to go through a video frame grabber though.

I would like to do some webcasting again in future with this type of camera, but am would like to be able to have a set up that up-loads images automatically.

Regards,

Paul Floyd.
www.nightskyonline.info



[QUOTE=ballaratdragons;639916]Well, I finally had a clear night after weeks and weeks of Rain, cloud and storms. A great way to end our Eleven year drought! :rolleyes:

I got to test out my Samsung SCC-A2333 CCTV camera for 'LIVE' Astro broadcasting.

This model Samsung offers:
Lux rating at 0.0000006 in night mode at full x512 sens-up, 10.25 seconds integration and a 1/2" SONY Ex-View HAD IT CCD Chip.

The in-camera IR filter is a mechanical device that slides in and out of the front of the chip.



Once this was done the camera finally behaved and after adjusting and re-adjusting all the settings it gave crystal clear beautiful coloured Live video of the Tarantula Nebula in the Large Magellanic Cloud, the Fornax Galaxy Cluster, NGC253 Silver Coin Galaxy, 47Tuc Globular Cluster and some small faint Galaxies in Telescopium.

Not only were these images quite good, they were through thin cloud and with the Moon shining bright!


Summary: This camera has turned out to be better than I expected.
The in-camera IR filter doesn't seem to dull images compared to no filter, and does it's job of tidying up the stars.
The 1/2" Sony chip is so sensitive that Nebulae was blowing out too bright at 5 seconds integration. Results were better at 2.5 seconds. So the full 10.25 seconds should reveal those extremely faint objects.

Thank you to all of you that visited my broadcast while doing this first DSO test. I appreciated your comments :thumbsup:

[Octane]

Ken,

That is awesome! I will have to try and log in and catch you one of these nights.

H

P.S. I /might/ be able to attend Snake Valley, afterall.

[erick]

:thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Adam, there is a setting called DNR (Digital Noise Reduction).
I haven't had it turned all the way up yet. It's about Mid now.
Reports say that it rids noise almost completely.

[ballaratdragons]

Paul, I am a little confused by your questions about automatic uploads.

Broadcasting IS instant upload. You see it as it is happening (maybe a 1 or 2 second delay as it travels across the internet). I even talk to the viewers 'live'.

When you say you didn't have to go through a Video Frame Grabber, that would be because you were using a Webcam.
CCTV cameras, Gstar-Ex, etc are not webcams. They are not USB devices.
They are Analogue devices.

The Video Frame Grabber is just a cable to plug into the camera and into the laptop to convert it from Analogue to digital. Same as connecting anything with any cable.

Whatever I point the scope at, and whatever I say, the viewer sees it and hears it 'Live'.

No special Software programs needed either. Just got to use the right Website with live feed connection, which Night Skies Network supplies for free to its members. :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Woo-Hooo, keep me informed :thumbsup:

[byronpaul]

Ken,

interested to hear more about your webcasting.

How do I find out more about it, how often is it on, how to connect?

Paul

[renormalised]

They're brilliant, Ken:)

I might invest in one of these cameras. Might ask Rock how to fit a peltier to one to cool it...keep the hot pixels down.

You can still get very acceptable images from these cameras if you stack enough frames and do the processing:)

[Octane]

Paul,

Google "Night Skies Network". On the home page is a big list of webcasters with their names, and, whether they're online or offline. Click on someone who's online and it'll load the cast for you. : )

H

[ballaratdragons]

Yes Paul, as H said :thumbsup:

Go here and the people doing a 'LIVE" broadcast are in red.
http://www.nightskiesnetwork.com/

I'll be doing another broadcast tonight :thumbsup:
(look for Snake Valley Australia)

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Carl.

Rock already makes a model of the Mallincam with Peltier Cooling. But he ain't going to share how to fit a cooler to his oppositions cameras ;)

Yeah, some folk stack and process with these cameras, but I have a Canon 350d for that.
I want this one purely for Live Broadcasts. :thumbsup:

[acropolite]

Sounds interesting Ken, can I ask where did you buy the camera and what do you use for capture to the PC (both hardware and software) as I have an friend who is wanting to stream some lowlight nocturnal critters (platypus mainly).

[DavidU]

Ken has the live feed up now. Looks great

[acropolite]

Thanks for the heads up, looking now.

[ozskywatcher]

Thanks for responding.

I suspect there has to be software working behind the scenes (...so to speak). I know that to connect to my wireless router or to upload images to my website, I have to use a variety of different software.

I am going to put one of these cameras on my wish list.

Regards,

Paul Floyd.

[ozskywatcher]

Enjoying the broadcast now.

Regards,

Paul Floyd.

[lacad01]

Super image of Triffid up :thumbsup:

[DavidU]

NGC253 looks great

[ballaratdragons]

Last night was actually clear for a good many hours, so I broadcast for 8 hours straight.
Was good seeing quite a few of you in there watching and chatting. Thanks :thumbsup:

Objects shown: Tarantula Nebula in LMC, 47Tuc, Fornax Galaxy Cluster (both north and south regions), NGC 253 Silver Coin Galaxy and a whole host of Galaxies throughout Sculptor, Keyhole Nebula in Carina Nebula, Trifid Nebula, others I can't remember right now, and the night rounded off at 4:30am with M42.

Here is a Screen Grab of M42 from my broadcast on NSN.

Imaging system:
1. Samsung SCC-A2333
2. System: PAL
3. 512x sens-up
4. 0.6x Focal Reducer
5. in-camera factory IR filter

OTA and mount:
6. 120mm f5 Achromat Refractor
7. EQ6 mount

Viewing:
8. LP zone: Black/Gray
9. location: Backyard
10. Seeing: 9/10
11. Transparency: from 10/10 down to 0/10 alternating
12. Other factors: 3/4 Moon

[renormalised]

Nice shot of M42, Ken:)

4:30am...you must be tired today!!.

[ballaratdragons]

Phil, your friend will have to source one through a company that fits security systems to buildings. They aren't a 'Retail' item.

Hardware to see it on a PC/Laptop is just a Video Grabber cable.
Hardware to see it on a TV is just a BNC to AV video cable.

Software: well, none really.
You can use some programs to fiddle with Brightness/Contrast/Saturation etc if you want to. The Gstar program works, or you can download 'ManyCams'.
I even got the Philips Toucam 'Vlounge' to work with it. :thumbsup:

That's all you need. Then you spend the next few months going :screwy: trying to get the settings in the camera right :lol:
Just like any other new imaging toy.

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Carl.

Yes, I am and I had to go to an Employment seminar today :sadeyes:

:lol: the things we do!

[netwolf]

Paul the software would be embeded in the Nightskies website. When you logon to broadcast, I would assume you give the website access to your local capture device or webcam etc. Same goes for Audio. That software then grabs the frames and streams them to the viewers. So instead of you installing a pice of software on your system to broadcast, you run it from a website. They are essentialy publishing a application that you allow to run localy on your system to broadcast. You could even have multiple cameras and switch between the ones you wanted to display. I have seen Rock do this during his broadcasts. He has one camera showing the inside of his observatory and another attached to the Telescope.

[ballaratdragons]

Yes Fahim, you are right.

NightSkiesNetwork uses a program called 'whispers' or something similar, which is Flash.

I also use 2 cams. One in the scope and one to show folks my gear, and I just switch between the 2 as needed.

[erick]

Been thinking Ken..............that's dangerous at any time :rolleyes:

What about a session of widefield using a lens, to show NSN folks the southern latitude sky - many will have never seen it. Low or no integration and using a laser pointer beside the camera to point out constellations etc. Then could flick up the integration to pull out the areas of nebulosity.

Just a thought for something different?

(Maybe better in 6 mths time when Centaurus/Crux/Carina are riding high!)

[Andrew C]

Hi Ken,

Am interested in the controller mechanism for the camera - the website refers to an SCX-RD100 controller. Do you use that or control it from a PC?

The web information on the controller doesn't give much idea as to what it actually does.


Also notice it has 10X the sensitivity in mono - have you tested its limits at all in mono in terms of faint galaxies etc at full sense up?

Cheers,

Andrew

[ballaratdragons]

Hi Andrew,

The SCX-RD100 is an in-line remote controller that allows you to do all the camera controls and setting at a distance.
I intend to get one but at the moment I am using a little 5" B&W CRT TV out at the camera via a Y connector.
I have to go out to the camera to change setting at the moment and I watch what I am doing on the little TV.

Once I get the SCX-RD100 I will be able to remain inside and do all the settings :D

The amazing thing with this camera and the SCX-RD100 is that it is connected in-line on the video co-ax cable as it allows 2 way similtaneous communication.

But at $290 it will have to wait a bit longer.

As for the 10x more sensitive B&W mode at full sens-up? No, not yet. I have been having too much fun seeing everything 'LIVE' in full colour :lol:

But I will be testing it's full capabilities on the next outing (hopefully tomorrow [Saturday] night) :thumbsup:

I am a Deeeeep Sky enthusiast so It will be exciting to see how far I can go.

[ballaratdragons]

I agree Eric, and it is a great idea.

I will be getting a lens for the camera soon and it will allow me to do this.

But yeah, will be better when Crux and Carina are high :thumbsup:

[koputai]

Hi Ken,

Any chance of you posting a dark frame from this camera, maybe with a bit of sense-up, so we can get an idea of the hot pixels?

The reasson I ask - I have a Mintron and am quite disappointed by the number and brightness of hot pixels, so am thinking of other options.

Thanks,
Jason.

[Astroman]

I am waiting for someone to try this thinking of using this camera for widefield Meteor capturing.... :D

[Karls48]

I have been using GStar camera with 8mm lens for meteor capture for about four years. Good S/N ratio, sensitivity and very fast lens is more important then long frame integration. Most of meteors are visible for less then one second.

[ballaratdragons]

Yes Jason, I'll grab one for you tomorrow night :thumbsup:

[koputai]

Excellent, thanks Ken.

Cheers,
Jason.

[MLyons]

Ken and everyone else who is using or intends using the Samrung SCC-A2333 camera, you don't need to use the Samsung RD100 controller.

I have managed to duplicate and remote the little joystick switch thingy to scroll through the menus etc.

It's a very easy and clean mod if you have a soldering iron and know how to use it.

The only limit is the length of cable to the remote handpad.
So far it works great at 10 metres using 6 core screened cable with the screen earthed at the camera end only.

I'll take some pics and post them shortly.

Martin

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Martin, that would be good :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Jason, I have taken 3 dark frame Screen Grabs for you.
They are at x128, x256, and x512 sens-up.

I left the Brightness and Contrast at 50% for all of them so they are equal in settings.

One thing I noticed straight away. Not as many hot pixels show up in these tests as when I image through the scope.
This test is with the camera out of the scope, lens cap on, and inside the house with the house heater on.
I see more hot pixels when the camera is in the scope, outside in the cold :shrug:

Tomorrow night I will be broadcasting again, so I'll do an 'outside' test because I believe that this 'inside' test gives no results of any value. But for now, here are the results from this 'inside in the warm house' test.

[koputai]

Thanks Ken. That looks almost too good to be true! The Mintron has huge bright dots on it, I'll grab a dark when my new USB grabber turns up.

Cheers,
Jason.

[ballaratdragons]

:eyepop: HUGE bright dots! Yikes, that doesn't sound good.

[MLyons]

Remote controller connection points

Black - common
Red - Enter
Blue - up
Green - down
Yellow - left
White - right

[ballaratdragons]

Cool. Thanks Martin :thumbsup:

So, it's still running a seperate cable. Oh well, rather than paying $290 for the inline RD-100 controller I can live with yet another cable :lol:

I better start hunting down some 6 core cable, a box, and some switches.

Martin, can you please show a wiring diagram for the control box. I can't work it out in the pic. Thanks :)

[MLyons]

Hope this helps

[ballaratdragons]

Thanks Martin, but why the Mylar screened cable, and how do I Earth it to the camera? With that little screw that says 'Ground'?

[MLyons]

Hi Ken,
The reason I connected the screen to the camera chassis was to ensure no possibilities of erratic behaviour from interference being picked up with long lengths.
Remember that I'm running 10m at the moment with hopes of making it 20m soon.
Also, if you're in an area that gets a bit of lightning, it will help too.

You don't have to earth the screen for short runs (2m) but then it is also not necessary to use screened cable.

If you do intend to run long lengths, I recommend screened cable with the screen connected to any of the little screws holding the chassis together. (The "Earth" terminal on the outside of the camera is simply connected to the chassis internally)

DO NOT use the screen as one of your conductors (such as the "common" wire)
This will ENSURE that your cable becomes a big antenna that may pick up signals from elsewhere and cause erratic camera behaviour when in the menu.

Regards
Martin

[ballaratdragons]

ok, thanks Martin :thumbsup:

[ballaratdragons]

Jason,

here is the test results from last night for Hot Pixels on the SCC-A2333 chip.

I left the camera on for 2 hours before doing the screen grabs so the camera was definitely warmed up.

The lens cap is ON the scope. Just like doing a dark with a DSLR. :thumbsup:
Outside ambient temp hovered around the 8 degrees mark.

I hope these Screen Grabs are what you were after.

[ballaratdragons]

Martin,

When I was drawing your wiring diagram I notice that you have the Yellow and White wires reversed from your actual wiring photo.

Will it matter?

[koputai]

Wow, that's pretty awesome Ken, thanks. These cameras look like the ducks nuts.
My Mintron doesn't even come close to that when watching on a video monitor, when my grabber arrives this week I'll post some darks.

Cheers,
Jason.

[MLyons]

Oops :D
The yellow and white wires are for left and right.
It won't do any harm other than reverse the direction the cursor moves in which could be a challenge when scrolling through the menus.

Martin

[ballaratdragons]

:thumbsup:

If I get them reversed I'll just swap them around.

Thanks heaps.

Going out now to start setting up for tonights broadcast. Lovely sky here.

[ballaratdragons]

Jason,

here's another test result for you.
Images number 1 & 2 at x256 sens-up, number 3 at x512.
I have doubled the image size so you can see them better.

The strange thing with these Hot Pixels is that they change colours about twice a second and look like twinkling stars.
When on a Dark sky background they appear bright and in these twinkling colours.
When on a lighter sky background they appear as black 'Dead' pixels.

Oh, BTW, the images are 47tuc, Running Chicken Neb, and Helix Neb.
All single frame 'LIVE' screen grabs.

[Star Hunter]

Hey guys,

Where in Oz can one buy these cameras or are they now obsolete?

ta,

JaBar

[Profiler]

Sorry - initially got my models mixed up but I believe the model is now called SCB-4000 but please double check

[blavatsky]

Hi,

Where do you get it in Australia ? Samsung SCC-A2333

Richard

[Astroman]

I think Ken got his through a security camera place in Ballarat. Maybe check out a place the sells security cameras, although I would think the A2333 would be outdated now so may be difficult to get one, unless someone is selling second hand... If there is no luck with that camera there is always the G-star or the Mallincam range of cameras.

Mallincam:
http://mallincam.tripod.com/