Conspiracy 9/11 In Plane Site

[Exfso]

Did anyone watch this last night on Channel 10. It was very very interesting. Just briefly they showed that it was impossible for a B757 to have crashed into the pentagon, As the initial hole was only 16'diameter and the diameter of the fuselage of the aircraft is 30ish feet. Also apparently no wreckage of an aircraft was found at all which could have been an aircraft of this size. The only "engine part" that was found was a compressor blade assembly which was less than 3' diameter, apparently the compressor assembly of this aircraft is about 9'. Also both aircraft that crashed into the twin towers and in particular the second one appeared to have no windows and be carrying some sort of pod under the fuselage, both these "pods" exploded just prior to the aircraft entering the towers, or at least there was some sort of flash a minisec prior to the entry. Eyewitnesses reported that the aircraft looked military, ie like cargo aircraft. If the program can be believed, and it is totally plausible given the visual evidence, there was something very very strange happened on that Sept morning. I hope they repeat it, as I will certainly record it next time.

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[ballaratdragons]

Yep! I watched in amazement!!!!

Also the fact and the footage of the collapsing buildings being detonated by controlled demolition explosives!!!! Eyewitnesses (Firemen & Cops) saying it was controlled demolition explosives used in all the buildings that fell. :confuse3:

There is also a maintenance log entry of the flight that crashed into the field on the way to the White House . The entry was made over 1 hour after the crash!!! The plane actually landed at the airport with a bomb on board. So which plane crashed into the field then?

[mickoking]

With the amount of lies and deciet being fed to us by our so called leaders 'conspiracy theories' like these are quite easy to believe.

[matt]

Bugger!

I only caught the last 10 minutes of that, but it looked really interesting.

Hope it gets a re-run... like eveything else does:P

[mickoking]

If its on channel 10 only The Simpsons and Everybody loves raymond gets the re-runs :lol: :lol: :lol:

[matt]

:lol: :lol: Very true Mick

It's enuff to give you the re-runs:scared:

[mick pinner]

l watched most of the show but l already have my opinions on the subject, one question which as far as l know hasn't been asked or answered, if the 757 in question did not hit the Pentagon and l doubt it did then where is it and the passengers that were on it because it definitly left the airport.

[ballaratdragons]

And where are the people from the passenger planes that supposedly hit the Twin-Towers? Footage shows that at least one of them wasn't even a passenger plane!!!

Interesting too was the slip of the tongue when President Bush said "when I saw the first plane crash into the First Tower live on television . . ."
It was never live on television! It was recorded by fluke by a Swedish Documentary Film Crew making a Docco about New York and wasn't aired until much later.

[xrekcor]

Dang! I missed that one... usually pretty good at catching those... but then again I'm
more of a ABC, SBS kinda guy.

regards,CS

[33South]

Yep stunned - I was lucky just browsing channels before going to bed, watched it thru to end. Verrry Interesting.

[ballaratdragons]

This is the site about the show: http://www.thepowerhour.com/

This is where to get a copy of the show: http://www.thepowerhour.com/news2/australia_contacts.htm

[netwolf]

Truth is only what we wish to belive is true. I recall the day i watched in horror along with the rest of the world. Initally i thought it was a part of the tv show "the west wing" because that was running on nine when the news broke in. Also because i had seen the same scenario of planes crashing into building in the first episode of the show 'the loneguneman' (a spinoff show from the x-files). In that show the aircraft had remotely been taken over by military intellegince to make them crash into the twin towers. There goal was to cause an action that would be seen as terroisimg and increase there budget. So indeed i realised unlike what the reporters where saying that no one saw this coming, someone writing for a tv show envisioned this happening in fiction.

All that aside i belived every miniute of what i saw as real, once i realised it was not part of a show. I watched till the wee hours of the morining horfied, that human beings could do this. But then i recall my primary school assignment on the boming of hiroshima and nagasaki and i realised humans had done before and have done again.

Watching this conspiracy show, though moves the blame from one human to another or group off. It does not change that humans did it. And it hapens every day. Fact remains innocent people did die in this event, caused by other humans. As a human it chills me still, as a spiritual person i realise no juistice can be done by mankind. As a muslim i hope and pray that it will not happen again, pray that all human beings can live in peace, and for the courage and strength to stop such events from occuring again. Evil only sucecedes if good men do nothing. Lest we foget.

Regards

Netwolf.

[netwolf]

I thought the best scene in the show was of the book siting unscorched inside the hole in the pentagon. Aircraft fuel indeed.. And the EPA report about how long aircraft fuel would have burned..

[ballaratdragons]

Yes Net! Neither the book or the computer on the desk recieved any damage or heat marks considering they were at the hole where the 'plane' hit!

There was a large section of the show devoted to the original first reports shown live on telly about the explosions and how they were set off in the method of expert demolition, then those reports were suppressed and never shown again.

[beren]

I didn't see the show so will hold back on commenting but hope that the people who produced and distributing arn't making a fast buck out of the horrific and terrible events of 9/11

[h0ughy]

My son was in the process of being born when I saw this happen "live" in front of me. while the birth of my son was in progress it is something I will never forget. Both awe inspiring moments, one for the right reason the other utter devistastion.

Now having hindsight and seeing this evidence i an doubtfull everything was as it seemed. Yes the terrorists had a plane, and I think yes the government milked it for all it was worth, and then some

[h0ughy]

Oh forgot to mention I captured the last 30 minutes of the show

[ballaratdragons]

Good point Stuart!

But it does make me shudder to think of the high possibility that Citizens were sacrificed/wasted/slaughtered/dissapeared by their own country for the sake of an excuse to start a war! If that is true, which one is worse: terrorists from without or terrorists from within? Whichever one, it was a sick act.

[beren]

I have troubles understanding a person who either is described as a freedom fighter or a terrorist threatening/killing innocent people and even more so a democratically elected government covertly staging mass murder on its own citizens to create a chance for a pre emptive strike/war on a assumed aggressor ....doesnt make sense :confused: .

[astro_south]

Those that are into Bit Torrents can find a copy of the show pretty easily and avoid the shipping and handling charge to get a copy - currently getting my copy now. I caught the end of the show too and have just spent ages reading all the websites. Really makes you think.

[ballaratdragons]

It's not the first time! and 'no' it doesn't make sense!!

[gaa_ian]

I must admit to being very suspect of the conspiracy theories.
*What Happened to the Alleged Hi Jackers ?
*What happened to the Missing planes & people ?
But I am open to the possibility !
After all, the war on Iraq is justified on a lie !

[mick pinner]

The "coming to power" of Osama Bin Laden was in there eyes a god send to the neo- conservative government of George Bush as they needed someone to focus on as the voice of terrorism.

Peak oil is a term used to describe the point where oil reserves drop below the 50% point of reserves and therefore begin to decline, this happened according to many former oil company employees in 2000.

With the majority of oil reserves that are available to America being held in the gulf countries they need a reason for a large military force to be in that area, what better excuse than to be liberating a country from a dictatorship, the supposed terror attack on America gave them the reason to go to the middle east and Sadam Hussein gave them the reason to stay not to save lraq but to be ready to have control on whatever oil is left once levels become critical, the only way the United States hangs on to world power is through military force and that relies on the most powerful commodity in the world OIL.

l have no doubt who the real terrorists are.

[ballaratdragons]

Well said Mick.

And our own Aussie Puppet plays along to the Puppetmaster and joins in! They all do. And you can't have a puppet show without an Audience thanks to CNN being in the right places at the right time all the time. Funny about that! :confuse3:

[Dennis]

I did not see the documentary but a few observations and initial questions spring to mind as follows:

I work at an air force base where we also get day visitors. When airplanes visit, it is often quite surprising how different people describe each airplane. Some people say that they saw a 2 engine airplane land when in fact a 4 engine platform landed. There is often quite a significant variation in the reported colour schemes and markings of airplanes as described by different people, along with differing descriptions of the external configuration of what they were carrying.

How much explosive stuff would it take to pack these buildings and then wire them? Didn’t some terror group pack a van with explosives in the late 90’s and try to demolish one of the towers?

Air traffic movements appear to be a highly regulated global activity. There are countless people, systems and operational processes and procedures that govern air traffic movements. It seems hard to believe that these could be manipulated to cause airplanes to “disappear”?

I am aware of triboelectric charging causing (unexpected) explosions in fuel tanks so there may be other “reasons” for seeing explosions prior to impact?

A technique used by the media to discredit someone or something when there is no actual evidence, is to state “Some people say that…blah blah blah” and yes, whilst some people might say that they saw or heard things, given the enormous emotional and mental trauma experienced, how reliable is their recall? How many were there? What expertise did they have?

To orchestrate these alleged conspiracy events, ranging from military aircraft being used, the disappearance of the commercial flights, the laying of explosives, the fooling of air traffic control systems and people, etc., does seem somewhat far fetched, requiring the involvement of so many? If such cataclysmic and public events could be so carefully planned and executed in secrecy, with no dress rehearsals, the people in charge must be extraordinary planners, project managers and psychologists?

The above comments are made in complete ignorance of the contents of the program and do not address the other points posted by IIS members. This is such a challenging topic that warrants careful investigation. The consequences of truth in some or all of the points the program appears to have raised are quite dire to say the least.

Cheers

Dennis

[rochler]

Another conspiracy theory. Wow. Personally, I think there was a second terrorist hiding in the grassy knoll....:lol:

[acropolite]

I'm not sure that I buy the conspiracy theory, there are too many assumptions made and too much anecdotal evidence. Ask 5 different people for an account of an event and you will probably get 5 different answers. I saw a program refuting those very same theories, equally convincing. One thing is for sure, corruption in governments is rife, and not just in the US, and as h0ughy said the US government has had a field day. On a similar subject did any one see the excellent 3 part series , "The Corporation" on SBS. The program exposed corporate greed and corruption and showed just how far some private enterprise corporations will go to maintain their profits.

[netwolf]

To the credit of Australian Leaders, though i am not in total agreement with them. Australia does need the protection offered by America though it comes at a price. An austrlian leader must put the protection and needs of his citizens before all others. Its a tough job and i do not belive the present opposition would have done anything diffrent.

Mike you are right there.
Power and control have always been the dominating factors behind politics and conflicts. And oil is a commodity that dominates the world today, the control of this commodity has long been an US forigh agenda.

But other factors are also there, that other documentaires post 9/11 have touched on, linking the power houses in american politics and the current usual suspects of terrorism. Howeve in the past these usual suspects were freinds against the old USSR and Iran, when those were considered threats.

I recall an Australian Fedral minister was called to account for stating post 9/11 that 9/11 was America's own fault. I belive the minister was from WA and as i recall he was made to appologise. I am not saying what he said is completly true, but I think America's foreigh policy has created many enmies to its intrests in foreigh affairs. Also its CIA guidlines i belive indicate they may only operate outside US soil, so if they are US citizens working for US intrests on foreign soil what does it make them? Fredom fighters, soldiers, terrorsits?? Who judges the CIA and other such agency's?


Notice how everyone is saying "Conspiracy Theory" not Conspiracy... I belve this was the point the doucmentary was trying to make, that we always assoiciate theory not fact to a consipiracy.

Beren you are absolutely right.
There is no justifaction for murder of innocent people under any guise. I belive the term for it is Collateral Damage.. I recall hearing that statement to describe what hapnned to the people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is a cold word, reflecting inhuman atititdudes to life.

[ballaratdragons]

No, didn't see that one Phil.

It's all on Video Dennis. No need for observers to 'try and remember details'.

I can see where you are coming from though. Many can jump to conclusions (some want to) that there is a conspiracy monster behind every government tree, but the program showed evidence which is very hard to deny. Some of that evidence very damning! I am suprised it was allowed to be aired. When the program first started I thought "here we go, another Paranoidal conspiracy lot of nonsense', but as I watched, I was shocked! And I am very skeptical.

Regardless whether it was conspiracy or not, nothing will be done about it.

[netwolf]

I think we can do something about it indirectly, we can teach our kids the same good values we were taught so the can stand vigil after us. A country's action does fall on its citizens to, we must continue to teach the value of life to our kids. And i belive open discussion like this is also something we can do about it.

[Dennis]

Ken

Now that is ironic coming from you, the archetypal, creative manipulator of images on IIS, and that is a complement by the way ;)

I have also used a lot of image processing techniques so I try to remain healthily skeptical about believing what I see on video.

I am also wary of the use of selective “irrefutable” data points to “prove” a story when there remain other major difficulties or obstacles within that story.

Generally, it seems we humans are trusting people as most of us live our lives being decent citizens who do not set out each day to manipulate people, win power over them, and tell lies to prove a point, etc. So generally, we assume others are the same as us. However, sometimes the people behind these big stories are skillful manipulators who wouldn’t bat an eyelid when they pull the wool over our eyes to achieve their own goals.

We can be too trusting and therefore gullible, such that we can be manipulated into believing an intricately constructed story, which may have several truths scattered amongst its bits and pieces, yet the overall story may itself be “incorrect” in that it may be a sub-set of the overall truth, an incorrect interpretation of the truth, a deliberate misrepresentation of the truth or just plain wrong.

Cheers

Dennis

[rumples riot]

Didn't see the show but here is a web site relating to it. It has mini vids and good detail.

http://www.911inplanesite.com/

When this event happened I heard about it the next day. The first thing that occurred to me was "they been asking for this for forty years and now someone has finally done it". Then after looking at the footage I was very suspect about the way the buildings imploded. Working in the building industry I have seen a few implosions and a few explosions. Then it occurred to me several months later that it could have been a setup. In fact I think that I have mentioned this here before. Every decade since World War II the US economy has been bolstered by a war of varying degrees. Korea, Vietnam, War of drugs, Africa (many countries), Bosnia, 1st Gulf War, Afganistan and now Iraq. Next possibles Korea, Iran, and anyone who threatens Israel. War is critical to the US economic policy.

I think that we are unknowingly witnesses to the new reich. Those who fought to stop this ideology are now so right wing that they are repeating history. I really hope I am wrong, but I bet some Jews in Germany were thinking the same thing in 1933 and got out while they could, the rest could not and did not want to believe the rumours.

Anyway, pity I missed the show. Would love to have seen it.

[rumples riot]

Oh BTW, anyone for Weapons of Mass Destruction. That says it all. Lying *******s got caught there, no one has done anything about that.

[netwolf]

Dennis,
You are right about thes documentaries, such as they are formed on subset of data. Possibly picked to make there point. As there would have been many recordings of peoples imressions of the events as thy hapnned but not all are shown. They selected some and so did CNN when they did there live broadcasts.

Trust is indeed a human weekness but it is also a strength. But with the meida, you must alwyas add a grain of salt. While watching this i was constantly thinking of the people with there missing posters of loved ones. And thought so where are they? The host's only answer was basical that 'we did not say they died' ask the people who did? But i think that was a bit much in the face of the loss pepole have suffered.

Regards
Netwolf

[netwolf]

One other point made during that i still am trying to find information is that why every one claims it was unexpected. The TV show The lonegunan highlighted a very similar situation were a plane was being remotely controlled to hit the twin towers. But everyone commneted that no one expted people to fly planes into building why not... perhaps it was to fictional to belive.

rumples, about WMD i dont think people care because everyone thinks Sadam is bad (which to my mind no doubt he is). But you are right, that lie has remained without much media questions on it. Usualy the media goes on and on and on about such things..

[lost_in_space]

I missed the show but after the feedback I picked up on today I will risk the wrath of the copyright holder by watching a copy a friend recorded .



I have no doubt either.
I believe peak oil is the term used when the water pumped into the well to force the oil out exceeds the amount of oil returned. Yes this happened about 2K.

Now...
What happened to Tesla?
What benefit does DRM bring to the consumer?
Why is Micro$oft _still_ a monopoly? (The EU is heading in the right direction here, but $ will win)
Why did Oz sign the free trade agreement with the US, and who is benefiting from it? (Clue: It's US, not us).
Why is patent and copyright reform desperately needed but will never happen?
Why are we unarmed? (It's not Martyn Bryants fault, he was just the excuse). Just to make it clear, I despise what he did.
Why are our constitutional rights being trampled into the mud?
Why instill FUD against anything that threatens the pigopolists?
Why do politicians kowtow to big business instead of doing their job and looking after our interests as our ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES?
Why is the US allowed to get away with Guantanamo Bay?
Why are drug companies allowed to get away with "evergreening"?
When was the last time a politician contributed anything beneficial to society instead of their own ego?
Why do political "donations" from big business give those businesses more rights than voters?

No wonder I am studying the cosmos looking for something better!!!

I haven't even got started yet. I've still got the recording industry, movie industry, software industry, our legal vs justice system, support for using heroin vs quiting nicotine and lots more to vent, but it's time to get off my high horse before I am accused of being a free thinker and locked up without due cause or recourse to basic human rights. Worse still I could even be branded as un-american and "disappeared" forever!
Grrrr...
I think I think too much.

I feel better now, but the sky is cloudy tonight so look out, I might be back. There is still a couple of shots of The Glenlivet left.

[rumples riot]

Netwolf, be that as it may that Saddam was bad man, that is no reason for waging aggressive war on a sovereign state. Rule number one in international law is that no country will wage aggressive war against another. The Americans executed many Nazi's for doing the same thing. Not to mention those that committed war crimes. Do you see the hypocracy? Waging aggressive war was used as a charge against Malosovick (sorry spelling) in Bosnia. A country may only attack another country after it has been in fact attacked by another country. That is one of the fundemental precepts of international law, of which the US is a signatory and chiefly the author. Premptive strikes are strictly forbidden. The Japanese were tried for the same crimes and executed for it. Funny how things have changed. Look through the mud to see the roots.

Its easy to say that the doco people were just manipulating information, but don't you think that happens everyday. Who decides what is the new's and how it should be shown. Not to mention the garbage they are fed. Believe half of what you see and non of what you hear!!

[Exfso]

I really started a poo fight opening this thread, but as they say in the classics, "occasionally the excreta hits the air circulating device". Someone must be accountable if there is in fact a cover up. I for one would not trust Bush, or his bum licking mate Howard as far as I could throw them, too many hidden agendas in my opinion. These blokes have more movements than a "Swiss watch".

:scared: :confuse3: :mad2:

[togo54]

I think I'll watch the reruns of Alien Autopsy again. What??? It wasn't real? I can see where I could start a real pi$$in contest here but I won't. Just a couple of things pi$$es me off tho.
lost_in_space...in regards to your constitutional rights. Can you own pretty much any type of gun you want? I can. You can thank a Queen and not a President for this particular lack of priviledge. Also the Micr$soft waste of breath. Ever hear of Linux?. OK...nuff said...I can see the flames already...:)

[slice of heaven]

Who told you that :scared:

The moon landing was a hoax too ;)

Another show to make money about other peoples losses.

The words ...Sucked In... come to my mind

[iceman]

I forgot to watch the show, so I've just picked up bits and pieces from reading this thread.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as Phil and Dennis. I think that documentaries like this will show you what they want you to see, so they leave out many important facts which can spoil their arguments.

It's no different to the 'moan hoax' documentaries. And of course like this, there's counter-documentaries that disprove what they 'proved'.

I have no doubt that there's corruption in government, and in big business (I saw 1 part of "the corporation" last week), but a conspiracy the size of 9/11 is too far fetched for me to believe that it could be carried out with an unsuspecting public none the wiser.

There's many "topics" in this single thread (US govt, george bush, iraq, howard, oil, 9/11, etc), so remember to clarify your points and state which topic you're talking about when replying to someone.

[mickoking]

Weapons of mass destruction, lie of the century. believe me when I say this but if Iraq had any of these offending weapons they would have been found long long before 911-2001. Soviet missiles were found in Cuba using fairly basic pre- satellite technology. Nowadays as well as sophisticated reconnaissance aircraft with a variety of sensors operating in optical, Infrared and radar. there are also satellites, elite operatives on the ground and a variety of electronic gadgets to aquire the information and don't forget highly trained intellegence and Imagery analysists to crunch the numbers. Iraq never had MMD's and our so called leaders knew that.

Basically we were lied to and in a big way and I personally find that discusting. Yes who are the real terrorist's?

Chill baby:drink:

[johnno]

Hi All,

AS an Amateur radio operator for over 20 years,given the regulations we are governed by,I NEVER get involved in these type of discussions,even though I agree,and disagree,with a lot that has been said.
The one thing I cant quite understand,about ANY,Conspiracy,or coverup,is this.

To me, in most of these things,there has to be a LOT,of people involved.
If not,then how do you get it done?
How do you stop them from talking at a later stage in their life?,
For eg,death bed confessions,Disenchantement with Job, consience pangs,etc,ok If were talking high ranking polititians,forget consience pangs.

Surely,not all participents in a cover up,are 100% keen on the idea,and have to go along with it,for whatever reason,Job security,Threats,etc.
It would be reasonable to expect SOMEONE,SOMEDAY, closely involved would talk sooner,or later.

I am NOT saying these things dont happen,I trust Governments and Beaurocracy,about as much as I trust a Funnel Web Spider,and have no Illusions,as to what they are capable of.
In fact I would rather take my chances with the Spider.

BUT,my Question remains,just how can the Main participents,be absolutely sure,NO ONE will give them away?

Regards.
John

[netwolf]

Hmm it was my understanding that often Ex-Company folk do talk about these contaversies. However often they are ridiculed as being on the fringe or not ex-company at all. So even if someone does talk will we belive them. But a coverup of this magnitdude seems higly unlikely, but then again the best hiding place is in plane sight.

Regards

[DRCORTEX]

See George, I told you it would just die down. The fools, don't reali.....you idiot George, I told you to turn that camera off!

Ah conspiracies - I sometimes think my marriage is one :mad2:

What were George bushes last words before the world blew up? - "Now, whats this button do?"

Regards,

Neo

[westsky]

Been reading this thread with some interest, I have read all the web sites that links where shown for, and I would have to say this garbage ranks up there with the fake moon landings, I reacon there are people out there with no scruples what so ever who dream this BS up just to make money, Got two questions to those that think it may be true.
1. if it was a fabrication why did Osarma bin Lid say on video that he was responsilble?
what, was he just trying to big note himself?, even though it would mean becoming the most hated person on the planet?
2.Explain how a US (Texas) friend of mine had to go to NY and identify personal belongings from a member of his family (cousin) who had been a passenger on one of the flights that hit the TT?
are this people who made the doco saying that the US gov killed them all to just start a war. BS

cheers
David.

[ballaratdragons]

Perfect example: How long ago was Richard Nixon involved in Watergate?

Answer: He wasn't. The guy that planned it and carried it out came forward last year! He thought he should finally speak up. Nixons career and life were ruined, and he kept saying he was innocent. Did they listen . . No! Bit late now though. No one was fussed about his confession. The event was too old for most people to care.

So even if someone did talk about 9/11 and spill the beans in 40 years time . . a bit late!

[wavelandscott]

Did not see the show...read all the posts to this one...felt compelled to add only that my cousin was working in the Pentagon at the time and my wife's cousin had an office in the Towers...neither were hurt

It was a horrible thing for all involved...I will never forget where I was at the time...Crows Nest at a pub following a business dinner...immediately everyone went home...my wife and kids had just arrived in Australia on Sept. 7th...I woke my wife and we set up all night watching in shock...I am troubled sitting here thinking about the crashes and the feelings that this thread has stirred in me...

While I am all up for a good "conspiracy" and I am seldom truly surprised by the rationalization and justification we humans can create to support our own particular point of view...I won't be adding any more or participating further in this particular thread...I find the "theory" that 9/11 was faked too much for even a jaded ex-pat like me...

[rumples riot]

Got to say, that having studied International politics, international law and the influence of the media at Uni I am very aware of the under handed activities of government organisations around the world. Much less the media's influence. I have no way of proving that Osama bin laden even exists as a person. Or indeed if the attack on the US was orchestrated by US officials or Bin laden. All I can say is US foreign policies and its agencies have frequently been involved in causing or contributing to the escalation of War. The vietnam war was a war by proxy between the US and Soviet Russia. Or what about the Oliver North Affair. Selling weapons to terrorists. Or Selling VX gas to Saddam Hussein while in conflict with the Iranians. Everything eventually comes out in the wash. Sooner or later the truth will find the way out.

For those who want to believe that even the US could not perpetrate this attrocity, I welcome your opinion but bear in mind this one thing. The Man who is running that country is there by way of an election result which was rigged. The Men who are by his side are making millions a day by way of financial interests in Iraq. When it comes to money and how a corrupt society can be led, I will not put anything past those that are profitting.

Do we really know what is going on, all we see is what we are told to see. That's what scares the crapper out of me!!!!!

[fringe_dweller]

i got a dvd copy of this rubbish today - as much as I dislike this neo-con administration and gwb, and me being a loony leftie as well - i find this laboured doco to be an outrageous insult to the people who were affected by this horrendous series of events - i remember clearly the sickening feeling of watching all those people die, and living thru the disgusting malaise and depression the western world has had to endure after these events - but I blame that miscreant piece of **** that is Osama Bin Laden - i hate his guts for turning the western world into a police state - poor little rich boy with a messiah complex - bah scum die
granted there is some strange details highlighted in the doco - ones i noted at the time btw - like how neatly the towers collapsed and the lack of plane wreckage at the pentagon - but i still dont believe a word of it.
those U.S. neo-con hawks are crazy - but not that crazy, no way
ps did you know there are rumours that Johny and his mates are going to try an introduce a U.S style 'Patriot Act' maybe in the middle of the year - after the massive indigestion from the IR bill dies down (they hope) - thanks Osama *&(&%$$#$^&*

[rumples riot]

Kearn, one thing you might be overlooking, the CIA trained Bin laden. They are full of nut cases, so to a large extent they are responsible for giving the funding and the training which created this event. Cause and effect mate. Let those that caused the event be made responsible.

The only Peace on earth to have a chance of recovery is if we all treat the earth as belonging to each and every one of us. Not the private domain for the western world to exploit the poor and the under educated. Notice how many companies around the world exploit the labour of developing countries. What about being more concerned who has nuclear programs. The hypocrites have 25000 nukes and hold that over everyone, yet no one else have them. Like they are the patron saints of restraint. Just wish there was an external threat that would make the whole world realise just how petty we really are.

Peace, just a dream.

Paul

[fringe_dweller]

Paul, it wouldnt be the first time one of their protege's turned around and bit them on the a*s - wasnt lee harvey oswald ex cia?
yes it does seem U.S. foriegn policy does consist of mainly of 'whats in it for us'
But I will be controversial here and say I think a lot of third world problems are borne of localised problems - things we dealt with a long time ago - localised deeply ingrained nepotism and corruption (not that whitey is free of corruption - far from it, but the level of it doesnt interfere with reasonably fair and egalitarian government taking place. secondly we seperated church and state a fair while ago - that has to be also achieved to live in a civilised society imo - these things have to chaange for a progressive state to exist
anyway how do mega-oil rich Saudi's have anything to do with the downtrodden of the world?

[ballaratdragons]

and now declared innocent.
The Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court even admitted in an interview that Oswald was innocent. The Chief Justice almost said the words 'cover up', but he floundered & fumbled his words and then said "an innocent man was wronged".

The CIA was happy to send one of there own down the river!

[norm]

Wow - interesting topic. Didn't see the program, but from the threads, comments I'm in agreeance with Dennis and Rumples.

Any opinions/comments on the Japanese whaling atm ?:confuse3:

[ballaratdragons]

Yeah, it sux!

[Lee]

I've seen websites about the pentagon/757 issues too....

1. I really doubt the US govt did this to its own civs
2. Something blew up a chunk of the pentagon - what?
3. Maybe it was a bomb delivered by terrorists as part of the 9/11 'operation'
4. What happened to the missing aircraft then?

Remember that the USAF scrambled fighter aircraft to shoot down if necessary aircraft threatening the capitol. Maybe this occurred, and rather than admit to this (which I feel would have needed to be done on the day, considering what had occurred) they have spun it to say the aircraft was crashed into the pentagon.

Hey - I watched a discovery channel program about the moon landings too, I went from someone who dismissed the conspiracy theory people offhand to one who really isn't sure what happened in the late 60's....

[netwolf]

Let him cast the first stone who is without sin himself. Self assesment is immeritive, none of us can lay claim to being perfect. We will all do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of our family, friends, neighbours, country, and property etc etc.. The abilty to think and chose allows us the oppertunity to good as well as ill. Given our priorites it may seem good for us or for those we care for, but it may not be good for everyone. For example, we chose to buy an EP's from a US company. Perhaps there is no ill in this and perhaps there is in that we affect our country's local buisness. The point is that we are all guilty of chosing in our own intrest. It is very rare to find individuals who for example will suffer for others and forgive them who make them suffer. Who will work for the good of others and not themselves. This is rare.

Thogu an EP or some other purchase are small things and like these other small things like weapons to protect those we love. Becuase of course we will not allow anyone to harm those we love. Of course we need more wealth even if it means we invest in companies who use cheaper labour overseas. Because we want more wealth for those we love to secure there future. It does not matter if somone we dont know loses there job. does it..

What is corruption, what is social responsibility, who do we love and who dont we love. what what what.. endles questions for many cloudy nights to ponder on. But we are all responsible for what happnes, even if it is by our inaction. Who will sacrafice themselves for others... who and then for the parnoid why?

It is easy to see the evil in others, though it is only a reflection of what we do not see in ourselves. In our choices. Chose wisely.

Regards
Netwolf.

PS: Nothing i have said or do will return the lost loved ones. And I hope nothing i said has caused hurt to anyones memory of loved ones. If so I ask forgiveness. May all our lost loved ones rest peacefully in the hand of the creator.

[netwolf]

Whaling.. oh yes.. Dumb impotent governments that can not protect those we are placed on this earth to protect.. I had the oppertunity earlier this year to go with my wife and friends on a whale/dolphin watching cuise at Nelsons Bay. And i can not belive that any man could harm such magnificent creatures.

Regards

[CosMos]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

[DRCORTEX]

Yeah, but its' a little hard to hide a 757 crashing anywhere in that area of the U.S. - it isn't exactly the wilds of Alaska. If they shot the thing down by mistake, it would have caused a nice big fireball in the sky, and left wreckage all through Washington. Now, if it was hit by a FA/18 missile or ther like, and THEN crashed into Pentagon - the odds ?

Consipracy theories - nothing more. What was that excellent piece from the movie Contact - all things being equal, the simpliest explanation is the best ? - the simpliest explantion, is that it was hijacked, thedhijackers went for the Pentagon, and because they had a dodgey copy of MS Flight Sim 2000, only managed to take out part of the building.


Ciao

Lance

Lance

[DRCORTEX]

I like the way you talk - this bull**** has gone way out of hand. the IR laws are crap. Even business says why change what is already working. As for the "Patriot" act. Why is it, your only a "patriot" if you agree with the Government ?

And yeah, this whole terrorism thing is giving the government - an excuse to throw in draconian laws that will whittle away at democracy. I may not agree with what the ****heads in parliament say, but damn, I like my right to call them ****heads.

In the end, what are they going to define as a terrorist ? Anyone that dosn't agree with them ? Lets be real, there are some evil dudes out there, but I don't want to see society turned into a security state.

Its pretty scarey right now, the government has to by duty, provide due care for the citizens, but it dosn't take much to change due care, to totalitarianism.

Lance