Mars Fart for Life

[renormalised]

Methyl Mercaptan, the sulphur bearing molecule responsible for the stench of flatulence, is now being targeted as an indicator sign of life for future probes to Mars. The TLS (Tunable laser Spectrometer) on the next rover to Mars (Curiosity...in 2012), will be used to detect it and other compounds that maybe present on Mars. According to a paper in the journal of Planetary and Space Science, the gas should be detectable in concentrations as small as 100 parts per billion. If found, it will be almost conclusive proof of the existence of extant life being present in the soils of the planet.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727784.100-bad-breath-sniffer-to-hunt-for-life-on-mars.html

[DavidU]

I'm looking forward to this mission.:thumbsup:

[pmrid]

"According to a paper in the journal of Planetary and Space Science, the gas should be detectable in concentrations as small as 100 parts per billion."

If they need to calibrate their instruments, I will offer them my dog.
Peter

[CraigS]

Well it does only say ..



Cheers

[astroron]

I thought I would volunteer to be a Guinee Pig:D

[renormalised]

Just make sure you get your weekly intake of baked beans and cabbage before you act as test bed for the detector:):P:P

[avandonk]

I prefer mercapto ethanol a far fruitier drop

Bert

[renormalised]

Tutti Fruity Fart:):P:P

Maybe Mars does smell nicer than Earth:)

[TrevorW]

I told my wife this and she said life must be growing on my arse by now

[multiweb]

First contact might be a Heinz bean can? :thumbsup:

[Alchemy]

Having just been reading some astronomical books written around the 1900's, and having the hindsight of another 100 years of experience, it's interesting to read the statements of the day, the best applied their knowledge with occasionally flawed assumptions, and it goes to show we might think we know it all but we don't. So tread gently, inquire the relevance of discoveries, always being open to the possibility that there are concepts and ideas we haven't even thought of.


Here's a quote... Note this is open source so has no copyrigt infringements
The question of the form and extent of the Milky Way thus becomes the central one of stellar astronomy. Sir William Herschel began by trying to sound its depths; at one time he thought he had succeeded; but before he died he saw that they were unfathomable with his most powerful telescopes. Even today he would be a bold astronomer who would profess to say with certainty whether the smallest stars we can photograph are at the boundary of the system. Before we decide this point we must have some idea of the form and distance of the cloudlike masses of stars which form our great celestial girdle. A most curious fact is that our solar system seems to be in the centre of this galactic universe, because the Milky Way divides the heavens into two equal parts, and seems equally broad at all points. Were we looking at such a girdle as this from one side or the other, this appearance would not be presented. But let us not be too bold. Perhaps we are the victims of some fallacy, as Ptolemy was when he proved, by what looked like sound reasoning, based on undeniable facts, that this earth of ours stood at rest in the centre of the heavens!

How 100 years has changed things, and just how will another 100 years view our grand statements ghat this or that chemical means life MUST be there..... True science investigates the evidence, makes a theory.... But until life is ACTUALLY found you can't say any absolute statements nor should you.

[CraigS]

Hey Clive;

You & I are in the same boat ! Good to have you around !

As I mentioned earlier, the scientists the article cites are allowing room for non-findings, false positives and false negatives.

The article seems to me, to be about justifying future investigation for life on Mars by incorporating TLS on Curiosity.

I get the feeling that many articles, papers, etc, that we see about Mars, contain just enough words to enable the securing of research/exploratory funding, in a very competitive market. The way they do this is to hype the possibility of life being found. The corollary to this is hype is the quantity of water. The same goes when they're looking for funding for going to Enceladus, Europa, Titan and others. They always leave themselves a way out if neither life nor water is found (which is still a highly probable outcome).

Chemical, geological and bio-chemical processes on Earth are all we have to go on at present. This doesn't mean that alien processes mimic these. We don't know what we don't know about yet. We are in our infancy. All we can do is base justification for research on 'earthly' processes, otherwise we'll be branded as crackpots!

We should read these articles looking for these markers.

Cheers

[sly]

This is interesting!
I will be looking forward to this mission! It's such a smart way to look for life! Let's hope the results will meet our hopes!

[CraigS]

The last robotic to land on Mars was Phoenix (landed August 2008). It obtained some info but I was disappointed that one of the most important gizmos didn't really return good meaty data.

From Wiki ..


So it kind of even missed detecting H2O. It landed in the Northern polar region where they expected heaps of frozen H2O.

Inconclusive results, just for H2O detection !!

Cheers

[renormalised]

However, the piccies from the surface showed heaps of what looked like water ice under the lander...they just had bad luck with their detectors.

If you want to look at it in an exceptionally critical way, you might as well not accept the presence of water on the planet until some astronaut actually drinks the stuff!!!:):P

[multiweb]

That's right... and smokes the TLS in a whiff of Methyl Mercaptan.:rolleyes: :lol:

[renormalised]

Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to be the astronaut that takes his helmet off to have a drink!!!!:):P:lol:

[CraigS]

Oh .. I'm not looking at it in an 'exceptionally critical way' …
I'm just sticking with the facts and keeping the stories, (& wishful thinking), separated from them.

I'm sure there's enough there to fill some guy's drinking glass … but enough to sustain several humans living there for say, a year, is still fantasy until they discover a large body of water (or they make their own). They don't have direct evidence of that yet.

As far as life is concerned, remember there's perchlorate in the soil. That's a pretty heavy oxidant and tends to kill off bacteria cells ..

Cheers

[renormalised]

How direct do you want it??. You can either remotely sense it through spectrometry and such, or you can sniff it out through an on site detector. The facts are there's plenty of water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_on_Mars) there, it's just getting to it that's the problem. Much of both polar caps is water...there is a large difference between the CO2 ice and water ice in the caps spectroscopically. In any case, the CO2 ice completely sublimates in the Martian spring and summer.

There are bacteria that metabolise perchlorate.

[renormalised]

Found the journal article the farts news is based on:)

[Rob_K]

Yep Craig, this is where a little knowledge can get you into a lot of trouble. The Phoenix landing was prefaced by lots of Earth-based science, replicating Martian conditions in various labs. At the time, because a few friends scoffed that anyone could claim a white substance in the soil of a planet millions of kilometres away and never visited by Man was water, I did a very cursory Google search and found several papers relating to this. You could find them, I never bookmarked the links. By knowing the behaviour of a substance under those conditions, if you see the precise behaviour in the field then you can be pretty sure of what it is. Nothing's a stab, Phoenix wasn't a thing thrown together by engineers who hoped for the best when it got to Mars!

Cheers -

[CraigS]

Hmm .. I'll keep reading and have a good think about this before I comment further.

I have an open mind on this. (I'm no 'fundamentalist' :) )

It could be a fair while .. there's a LOT to read .. and as Rob has pointed out, there's lots of ins and outs to it all.

Cheers & Rgds.

PS: You're a wise man, Rob. Cheers.