I've had an interesting morning...

[troypiggo]

Just got back from the police station...

This morning I got a phone call from my bank. My Visa card was over limit. That's not right. I haven't made any huge purchases recently. Check the account online and there's 3 purchases made at Apple Online Sydney totally $4,500 a couple of days ago! That most certainly wasn't me!

Phoned by bank to raise a dispute. They're investigating. Really good actually. They refunded the money pending the outcome of the dispute.

Phone Apple Online. It appears someone has opened an account with them using my name, my Visa card no, a fake email address but using my domain name (piggo.com). They'd ordered an iPod Nano and 2 MacBook Pros before the limit was exceeded. The orders were on the way to these frauds/thieves! They gave an address! In Queensland! I asked for the address, but they wouldn't give it to me :( I had a little delivery of my own to make. Sporting goods - a swinging baseball bat. :mad2:

Went to the police, made a report. Told them if they go to the address and need backup, call me. :D

[dugnsuz]

Jeez Troy - I'm going through the same thing for a much lesser amount on my mastercard. Item purchased from (wait for it) Apple Online Store Sydney - an iPod Nano again!!
They checked my card details against the purchase and came back with a vietnamese name at a Vic address. "Errr - that's not me!" I said.

I had an interesting morning too - yesterday!
Cancelled card, talked to apple online store, Police.
Bank are investigating - no immediate refund though.
Doug

ps...'purchases' done on 20.8.10

[Octane]

Wow! That's not good at all!

Glad to see the bank sorted it out for you, mate. How unnerving!

H

[renormalised]

Hopefully the police will sort this out.

I never bank online or have anything financial tied up over the internet....apart from paypal, and if anything happened there, I'd be off there like a shot. Plus they'd be hearing from my lawyer.

[troypiggo]

I've been online shopping for years and never had any trouble. I honestly don't think this is an online shopping issue as such, it appears Apple Online have been hacked. Yes, you could argue that Apple must've had my Visa card details and it's become accessible. It's interesting, these days more and more online shopping is becoming prevalent. You'd think Apple have pretty good security, but by the same token they're a pretty big target, probably second only to Microsoft.



Sorry to hear that, Doug. The purchases on mine were made 18/8/10, but only showed up on Visa statement 23/8, and I only noticed it today.

They actually tried a fourth order for headphones, but that one was rejected because the card was over limit.

[multiweb]

Wow! Deja vu! I had to cancel my VISA last week and got a new one. Purchases on the apple store too with my CC number. Something's going on... :question: Problem is that I never ever shopped on the Apple store but I did have a PayPal acct with a link and they got to the Apple store through PayPal. Purchase on 09 and 10/08/2010. Never ever had a problem with CC online in the past and I have been using cards online for ever. Always a first.

[Barrykgerdes]

I had trouble two years ago. Someone in Malaysia booked up $12,000 on airline tickets. The bank closed the a/c the same day and gave me a new card. That is when the trouble started. They refunded the money, doubled it and then credited it again to the new card. As a result my credit card was suddenly $30,000 in credit. I told them and they virtually said "we didn't make any error"

Off I went to the ATM but alas I could not transfer it to my savings A/c, Boo hoo!. After about a month we eventually got it sorted out. I got everything of mine back and a sorry for the trouble but at least I kept the 52000 award points which I exchanged for $100 vouchers on DJ's

Regarding paypal, I do have an a/c and they have been sending emails to say it is about to expire next month. This is true but I will advise them separately. I won't answer that email.

Barry

[troypiggo]

Hang on a sec. Did you guys have Apple Online accounts before? And/or do you both have PayPal accounts?

I assumed it was an Apple Online thing, but if you don't have an account there, or they don't have your CC details, maybe it's a PP issue?

[dugnsuz]

Yeah Troy - that's what worried me - I think apple have been hacked not Paypal.
Apple have my details (including CC) on file from years ago with an address in Brisbane when we lived there in 2005-2006. I haven't used it or updated details since then.
Doug

ps... I do have a Paypal account too.

[Barrykgerdes]

When ever I get asked for my pin number I give it out freely O410E try it.

Baz:P

PS I am answering lots of posts that I would not normally bother with cause I am trying to make the 1000th post. (988). Please excuse the drivel
B

[multiweb]

Nup - Apple doesn't know anything about my CC or banking details because I use prepaid/gift cards. PayPal on the other hand did and since then I have unliked the CC. The purchase they tried to do in my case were through PP.

[troypiggo]

LOL go for it.

[rally]

Its all over the web
This is a widespread problem and Apple have acknowledged it.

They say that only 400 personal accounts were hacked but nobody believes this small number is true and that is just one of the ways in which they are being hacked.
Some methods arent fully understood yet.

In the mean time check your iTunes account for unauthorised transactions.

Read about it here
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/07/you-should-check-your-itunes-account/

And here
http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/07/04/appstore-hack-itunes/

Follow links to Apples apology
Seems they are only just getting to the bottom of how the iTunes store weaknesses are being exploited.

[troypiggo]

Aah, thanks mate. Apple didn't let on that it's widespread. Just mentioned "a couple" of others. Checking out those links now.

[jjjnettie]

damn, sorry to hear about that troy.
I don't own a CC and never will.

[apaulo]

Well this story will make you laugh!

My wife cancelled her American Express card 6 months prior to receiving a bill for some pornos purchased online from the states!. It was the first week we had linked up with the internet. After convincing the wife that I had nothing to do with it, not to mention the company, it was rather easy considering the card had been cancelled. The company's fraud department got involved. Five months later we received another bill???? Same place of purchase, same type of goods and for the same amount. After all that bother the company wanted to know if we would like to open up the same account?. That was the last we heard of it too.

Never did reveive those dvds either hehhehehehe :P

Regards apaulo (cash only please)

[troypiggo]

Hehe. $4,500 worth of porn is a whole lotta porn!

[bloodhound31]

OUCH guys, that's no good.

[acropolite]

Doesn't surprise me at all, I was very nervous (and I still am) at the prospect of Apple having my credit card details, more so than Paypal .

I wonder if Apple and Paypal foot the bill when things go pear shaped??

[multiweb]

On a CC fraud the bank will always re-credit the owner. If you sell something though and you're paid via CC and it's a fraud then you lose (what ever you ship, good or services).

[blindman]

Troy, you should mention which bank, I'll switch to them immediately.
Sorry for your trouble.

[Liz]

Thats terrible that so many of you have had bad experiences with CC and Apple, really pays to check your account regularly. I use my CC a lot, though not many $$ in it anyway.
I think I had better check right now. :scared2:

[troypiggo]

I'm not sure if it's the bank or the card itself. They seem to run them separately. I just checked my balance, and they haven't (yet) refunded the money. They have refunded the overdrawn limit $9 fee. That was the first thing they did when I raised the dispute. I'm sure they said it may take a day or 2. Will report back if/when it happens. The card is a Westpac Altitude Gold Visa.

Another minor update, more generally related to online credit card fraud itself. My brother is working on contract to a bank at the moment, and his understanding is that for online purchases it's very hard for the banks to prove you made the purchase since there's no signature or PIN etc. They should refund the money up front then prove that it was you that made the purchase. I'll do some more digging about that.

[wasyoungonce]

We go card skimmed a month back when at South Wharf Melbourne (we think it was there).

We were in Costco and just had our card declined and was trying to phone the bank when they called us on the mobbie. They asked if we had purchased said ticket...which was "nyet". They had removed $4K+ from our accounts via some airline ticket purchased in Colombia. The bank then cancelled the card.

So there we were trying to pay for goods with a declined then cancelled card telling them the "Colombians have taken our money"! Yeah right..I bet they get that all the time.

After some to-do the bank released just enough funds and enabled the card to pay then re-cancelled it.

We have our money back but ...it was a interesting time.

[troypiggo]

In general I've found the credit cards very good. There's been a couple of occasions where I have actually made legitimate purchases but from a few random places all at the same time, and they've called me to make sure it was me making them. Another time I got called while overseas to make sure it was indeed me overseas making the purchases. Good service I reckon. Don't mind getting the calls when they're looking after my interest (no pun intended).

[mldee]

Count me in too. Last week I received a midnight SMS and email from my bank that there had been a suspicious transaction and my card was temp blocked. Checked online when I woke up and read them and ta da, Apple online $1950. Called the bank and it turns out they were triggered on a $1.50 test transaction via Yahoo. They didn't know about the Apple one.

It's also under control and I got a refund in two days, plus a new card of course. Mine was Westpac Altitude Gold MC.

I never use the card that was hacked, (It's a freeby from my bank), and I use a different one with Paypal. Never use CC on the internet.

So it seems to be widespread.....Funny no publicity in the news...

[wasyoungonce]

The bank was very helpful...up until the part when they didn't send us the forms for re-credit. They really dragged their feet on this.

The major issue here is a system that has faults that are being exploited costing the banks...aka the consumer...money.

I was happy the bank was on top of the unauthorised withdrawal. But there again they knew gangs were operating big time in Sydney & Melbourne for weeks prior to our skimming, yet no warning were issued.

[Tandum]

Me too. The invoice just arrived in the mail with over $2.5K to Apple Store Sydney and the bank tells me there are a lot more coming on the next invoice.

[AdrianF]

Just checked my pp acct and there is a unauthorized transaction of $2.55 on the acct. Don't know whether it's related to the above posts but I am keeping an eye on pp and have sent an email to them disputing the transaction.

Adrian

[troypiggo]

And the list grows...

[Jen]

:eyepop: wow Troy that sux :mad2: Im glad u got your money back ;)
Tha could never happen to me as i max my credit card out all by myself LMAO :lol::lol::lol:

[troypiggo]

LMAO indeed. In fact, it is usually self-induced in my case too.

[AdrianF]

Call me paranoid but I have removed my $$$ out of my main bank acct and put it into another acct that can't be accessed. I don't have a credit card only a visa debit so nothing can be booked up unless the funds are in my acct.:screwy:

Adrian

[allan gould]

Shut my pp account 12 months ago for exactly the same fears of others here

[Tandum]

Is the Sydney Apple store a franchise? I'd expect they will be bankrupt shortly seeing they only charge your card after goods are dispatched. I believe my bank is pulling back about $12K from my card alone.

This is the 3rd time my card number has been ripped. I never use it online so it hasn't been stolen, they generate the numbers using software and normally check them with $1 transactions on line. They told me today a couple of small transactions went through yahoo something. That practice normally gets the cards cancelled automagically. Looks like they are now in for the big rip off instead. I guess Apple has the delivery addresses :lol:

[troypiggo]

They may do that in some frauds, but not this one. They used my name, my CC, even my domain name. Clearly they've gotten accnt info from somewhere.

[Analog6]

I only have a debit card. I use a credit union and i have my main funds in the second savings. Net access to the account is safer to a degree as you don't type in your passowror, a little moving numberpad pops up and you have to use your mouse to access it, and the numbers are in a different place each time.

That said, someone did try to access it from Czechoslovakia, naturally there were insufficient funds as I only transfer money when I am ready to pay, but the CU realised and suspended my card and contacted me and I got a new card.

Annoying and worrying though.

[taxman]

2.5K here in two transactions at the Apple Online Store - the stupid thing is I got onto Apple within an hour of the transactions appearing and they said there is nothing they could do.

I explained that I am going to get my money back as this was not a "real" purchase and all that will happen is that they will lose the goods.

I kept calling back and eventually got put onto a David Hemming, Director of Business Relations. He agreed to have the transactions cancelled, but one went through anyway 4 days later.

The Police weren't much help - the first guy I spoke to took my complaint, before handing me off to another guy as he had to do something. The one I was handed off to started wittering on about ebay and even said that it was my fault for using my credit card at all. I tried to explain that the fact that I hadn't was exactly why I was making the complaint, but there was no getting through to him and I ended up giving up.

It is now with the bank & I have been quoted 4-6 weeks turnaround...

[Barrykgerdes]

Of course the police aren't interested. Solving crime is nothing to do with them anymore too many restrictions on what they can do. They make heaps more money out of traffic offences with virtually no paperwork.

Every infringement is listed as a crime and every conviction is a solved crime. With thousands of traffic fines the statistics look great on paper. 99.99%? of crime solved.

Barry

[troypiggo]

Sorry, these kinds of comments bug me. If people aren't infringing traffic rules, they don't get fined. If you can't pay the fine or serve the time, don't do the crime. Don't blame the cops if you get caught. You know you were doing wrong.

Have I been caught speeding? Yep. Did I get fined? Yep. Did I blame the police for catching me? No. I know what I did and I took it on the chin.

[Octane]

I'm sure members of this site who are police officers (I know of at least one) would have a different view to your broad sweeping generalisation, Barry.

H

[Paul Haese]

I just got nabbed by this scam too. First ever trouble with internet payments in 15 years. Apple online store say they have no record of this occuring and yet it is on my credit card statement. Card is cancelled and later this morning I'm off to the police to make a report. I am not buying itunes music until I hear this stuff is sorted. :mad2:

[desler]

Boy, reading this thread really puts the wind up you, so to speak. I, like most of you up until recently have never had an issue, and hopefully I won't.

But I get a feeling all of our on-line transactions will diminish as we take a lot more care as to where our personal details go.

As for the criminality of the issue, it's theft, by fraudulent means, but still theft and as such a crime. When reported to your local plod, reports get generated, notifications happen and patterns appear.

It's not down to your local plod to go investigating international fraud rings, there a specific people and groups who specialise in this ever growing on line world of EFT and Credit Card transactions.


All of the localised reports end up alerting these groups and start the ball rolling. Do you think a complex multi national crime syndicate is going to get stopped over a couple of days. This sort of stuff can take years.

As for the cost, there are lot's of people out there, who by CHOICE! have never inputed a single CC number on line for any purpose, and therefore immune to these type of scams, Are they immune from all scams, well no! but they limit the risk. Thats what we should all be doing!

As for the comments that there is no money in investigating these type of crime versus road policing. Give me a break.......


Got to go now, more important things, I think my new Feathertouch (on line purchase) has just arrived..............

Darren

[Tandum]

Just got the documents from the bank, they ran up $9601 on my card in a week. This card is only 6 months old, being replaced after the last one was cloned and has only ever been exposed through paypal. I think Apple needs to enforce the policy listed on their web site saying credit will only be accepted where delivery address = card address. They'll be paying for that blue.

[wasyoungonce]

Who says crime does not pay:eyepop:. It appears that organised card crime pays big time. This can only get worse in the future.

[troypiggo]

Update:

Yesterday I noticed that the money had officially been refunded and marked as "dispute resolved in your favour" on my Visa statement.

[OICURMT]

I'm wondering why Australian credit card companies and banks don't use virtual credit card numbers for online transactions.

I have a US Citi CC and use virtual account numbers.

https://www.citibank.com/us/cards/gen-content/messages/van/index.htm

My card has never had a fraudulent transaction since I started using this option. No one can purchase online with my card, because I never have to reveal the real CC number.

[troypiggo]

So how would this virtual CC no work in the iTunes situation above? It was iTunes accounts that got hacked, not simply someone getting my CC no. Doesn't look like it'd help in that instance. I see they do have a timelimit option, but for something ongoing like iTunes most would probably leave that a pretty long period, no?

Interesting idea, though. Hadn't heard of that.

[Tandum]

I've had $7350 out of $9600 paid back to the card so far. I'm keeping an eye on the interest charges now. No way I'm paying them.

[troypiggo]

Just remembered this morning. I had called the police last week to see if they caught anyone etc. Gave them the case number and my details and they said they'd call me back. Still haven't heard from them. Bit disappointed in that. Not so much if they haven't caught anyone, but just call me back to let me know.

[AstroFlyer]

Just came across this post .
Same thing happened to me on 8th August - 2 purchases made at Apple Online Sydney -$2500. An iPod Nano and 1 MacBook Pro. I was fortunate to check my balance on line just hours after the transaction & cancel the card.
Westpac was very good the way they handled it. Rang Apple store to warn them of the scam - they could not care less. By the time i contacted them the goods were sent out via courier. they would not give me any details other then order number & that it went to Queensland.
I then went to Apple order tracking page to see if I can find more info. Had to log in to view the details, BUT...
One of the log in options was to use your order number & delivery address post code.
So I just started typing Qld post code numbers & after 10 mins. - bingo!
I had a name & Star Track connote number.
After ringing Star Track & explaining the situation they've faxed me actual delivery slip, with name, address & signature of the recipient.
Let me know if you want me to send you these details.
I passed it on to my bank.
After couple of weeks all the money were refunded to my account.
Didn't bother with the police as it's up to Apple to try to get their stuff back.

[garymck]

Hi,
Just saw this thread, same thing happened to me...2.5k at the apple store. I have never bought there, nor do I have an Itunes account. I do have a paypal account though.... money has been refunded after a 6 week wait (CBA) thought I was one of the few unlucky ones....seems the few are the many...

cheers
Gary

[adman]

I am going to have a closer look at my credit card statements tonight!

[dpastern]

Most online shops will record the IP address though. And ISPs usually keep a log of what IP address belongs to whom too. I know IP addresses can be faked, as can MAC (machine address codes) addresses.

Good to hear that the bank came to your aid so quickly.

Dave

[Paul Haese]

Mine is all sorted now. I am expecting to receive the official word in the mail I received late last week.