Why are you a visual observer?

[Paddy]

It seems to me that a lot of people addicted to astronomy end up in imaging. The imaging section of this forum had a thread a while back inviting people to say why they did astrophotography. But there are quite a lot of us that stay in the realm of visual observing, eschewing laptops, CCDs and autoguiding. There may have been a thread on this before, so I apologise if it’s already been done, or if its not of interest. But I wonder what keeps people observing visually? I imagine for some it’s the expense of imaging, but for many there will be other reasons. What are yours? What do you get out of visual observing that you wouldn’t get out of making photographs? What changes have you noticed in your observing over time – how you observe, what you see, what you like to look at.

I’d love to hear about people’s passion for observing – the awe, the science, the aesthetics, whether you make notes, lists or sketches and why, do you like to see a lot of objects or do you like to take your time?

Thanks in advance to all who reply!

[Greenswale]

Good call Patrick!

I am a visual observer, because of its simplicity, flexibility, 'wow!' and the stimulation of imagination.

But there is another reason. We are all made of stardust - and every time my eye absorbs photons originating a celestial object, I feel even more part of our universe. Esoteric, but hey!

[Sarge]

Thanks Patrick
I agree with Wren, its definately the "wow" factor. Being able to actually observe the universe, seeing it for myself. I have no ambitions to move into photography. I am vey happy to see all those wonderful sights simply using magnification (and perhaps a few filters).

Rod :D

[pgc hunter]

It's relaxing, fun, challenging and problem free! My first experience with astronomy was visual thru scopes, then I got into sketching and I guess it just stuck with me.

I really don't have the patience to deal with crashing computers, miles of wire, 10 ton EQ rigs and a whole checklist of things that can go wrong ;) Oh and most importantly I'm too lazy to climb the learning curve :lol:

Truth is, I'm more likely to give up the booze and KFC and turn into a vegan than ever take up imaging. ;)

[sheeny]

I do both. Well I try to.

I tend to do imaging as a learning experience, and I generally do it alone, but I enjoy doing visual when people are around... visitors, friends, etc. Visual is an experience that's great to share!

Al.

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

All the above to some extent, and also cost. There are so many things I want to spend money on, like travel, that I decided I could satisfy my lifelong ambition to have a proper telescope without going on to astrophotography. So far so good.

I am also 80% colourblind, and I have gained the impression that this would be a significant drawback for astrophotography. Anyone got experience with that?

Cheers

[xelasnave]

I dont post photos anymore because I am colour blind and it shows in my images..people point out all the green....what green I ask...but for me personally I love my shots as the colours dont offend me.

I love visual because I am in such a great location... given up mentioning it cause it makes folks envious...so I just enjoy it all on a personal level.

alex:):):)

[sheeny]

No experience with it Geoff, but colour blindness would only be an issue with the final colour balance of colour images. Monochrome images, narrowband, spectroscopy, photometry, supernova searches, comet searches, solar images, etc wouldn't be adversely affected at all I imagine.:)

Al.

[astro744]

I am a visual observer because I can find any image I need at http://hubblesite.org/

I also like finding things using charts and tables because I get a better feel for where things are and how to get there. No GOTO for me!

[astroron]

There are a few things that keep me being a visual observer.
1 Cost of gear for Astro Photography

2 I did Astro photography for a while in the last century;) and wasn't very good at it:(

3 I don't have the computer Savvy for the processing:rolleyes:

4 I love Dark nights with the Milky Way Galaxy arcing over head, seeing Meteor flashing by and just the Ambiance of being outside taking this all in:D

5 But most of all I love the thought when I am observing that the light hitting my retina has traveled anything from a few light minutes to 2 billion light years and I am seeing it through my very own telescope:):):):thumbsup:

PS It's one of the only things I am any good at, I think so anyway:rolleyes:

[M54]

I'm a visual observer because I like the simplicity of it.
I like the challenge of locating an object on a map and tracking it down by starhopping.
It's such a buzz when you find it!:D

[orestis]

I'm a visual observer because i just love being out there with the stars observing things light years away .

But possibly the biggest reason why i love observing the heavens is because as Carl Sagan would put it "We are starstuff pondering the stars" and that thought just boggles the mind.Just to think that i am a living organism looking at stars from the other end of the galaxy makes me want to learn so much about the universe.

I also like to study the universe so i take notes and make sketches and to answer paddys question,i like to take my time with objects trying to grab as much detail possible from it.Just like exposure in astrophotgraphy.I Make sketches because it fun and its a visual representation of what i've been able to observe over a period of time plus it sharpens your observing skills a lot.

:D
Regards Orestis:thumbsup:
Ps- the cost of astrophotography also boggles my mind

[michaellxv]

It's all still relatively new to me so I still get the WOW factor from looking at something with my own eyes for the first time. And there's sooo much to discover.

I've tried some sketches, and whether you keep them or throw them out the process enhances the observing.

I've put a webcam in and done some basic Lunar images. I don't think I have the patience or $$$ for deap sky imaging. and there's no shortage of excellent images out there to admire when it cold and raining.

[seeker372011]

the only reason I image is because my visual acuity is poor

nothing like seeing it for yourself

remember the first time you saw Saturn through a telescope? I'm willing to bet you had seen plenty of photographs before that..was it the same?

no, seeing those rings for yourself-what a buzz

[astroron]

I also love the WOW factor when I see A comet like Holmes that fills the field of a 20mm eyepiece in my 16" scope.:eyepop:

Great thread Patrick:thumbsup:

[leon]

I have been imaging for years and loved it, but now I have given it all away, but still enjoy the cold frosty nights just to look up.:)

One feels very small under that dark sky, and it is free. ;)

Leon :thumbsup:

[DavidU]

......cause I don't have a camera.:D

[Saturnine]

Similar story to all of you that've replied, visual astronomy is the simplest, cheapest way to enjoy our hobby, pastime, obsession, whatever you want to call amateur astronomy. Although I do dabble with cameras occasionaly and quite often when I go observing with the club, I will take the dob, first scope in the car, then I'll take an EQ and a mid sized refractor and camera gear for a few happy snaps, widefield mainly, easier to manually guide.
Visual always is my first love though, the thrill of the chase,so to speak, studying observing lists and charts and then star hopping until the object is "found" or sometimes not, when it's on the limits of what my scope and the seeing conditions will allow. Just the beauty and the wonder of the gossamer glow of faint nebula or faint fuzzy galaxies that are tens of millions of light years away or the countless pinpricks of light of an globular cluster or teasing out the colours of many double star systems and therefore the stars temperatures and so on and so on.
Just sitting back on a clear night and taking in the panorama of the stars while having a break from the eyepiece is as rewarding as any telescopic view.

Jeff

[ballaratdragons]

I do both happily.

I do Visual with club members and visitors on every Club night and any other night I can't be bothered setting up all the imaging gear.

I do imaging because I like to be able to record what I've seen up there and print it out and frame it.

I am another one that even after 26 years at it now STILL says 'WOW!'


Telescope: $1299

Mount: $1500

To be able to see something Billions of light-years away as it is happening Billions of years ago with my own eyes: Priceless

:rofl:

[ZeroID]

The WOW ! it never ends, The SEARCH !! Got it, finally !! The CHALLENGE !! So THATS where you have been hiding !
I will attempt some Astrophotog one day but I don't think I will ever not be amazed but what I see with my own eyes

[The Mekon]

1. Because I really do believe the Psalm where it says "The heavens declare the glory of God' - and I like to witness that first hand.
2. I like double stars and don't know of any amateur photo method that will resolve 0.8" separations.
3. When I have not prepared an observing list - the freedom to look around and say "now what shall I look at next"

[Paddy]

What a fantastic and interesting bunch of replies! My own experience is very much what others have said. The simplicity of setting up. The challenge and achievement of star hopping, not to mention the state of mental absorption that comes with looking at patterns of stars trying to pin down the elusive. Then the observing itself - as others have said teasing out the subtleties of colour of stars, shapes of gossamer, asterisms etc. It's like really relating to the object. And directly - no screen between. In Zen, the term intimacy is used. I reckon Narayan's comment about the reaction to seeing Saturn's rings vs seeing pictures of them says so much. And of course the knowing what I'm seeing and that I am star stuff watching star stuff... One does not need to be religious to have a profound spiritual experience in astronomy. Science is quite enough.

Thanks so much for your generous and thoughtful replies and I hope that there are some more to come!

[Suzy]

Patrick this is a fabulous question.

Firstly, I must say I do have a high regard for anyone that images, because we get to see the glorious detail captured that we can not. I admire their dedication for what must be quite a lengthy pain staking process.

As for visual. Brent said it nicely - I think exactly the same way, I love the challenge. And the wow factor, it is amazing having your eyes to that eyepiece knowing that what you see is so ridiculously far away.

Admist the dark and lonely night which surrounds me, I feel taken away from this planet, it is easy to feel I have opened a curtain into space and I feel like I'm doing a space walk. It's a real high. And then, as others have said, it's a great challenge to bring out the detail in these objects, and your eyes just get better and better and doing so.

[Suzy]

Well said, and I go by that as well :thumbsup:

And of course, I forgot to mention Saturn earlier. Great point. Nothing beats seeing it for yourself.

[Paddy]

Oh yes! And I really appreciate how astro-imagers make their beautiful work so available for others to enjoy.

[mental4astro]

I've taken a little time to figure out my reasons.

When I started in this hobby, I poured over the astro magazines advertising hypersensitizing kits, specialised film holders, etc. As a young fella, this was out of my range. So whilst dreaming, visual astronomy had to do. And I'm glad it did.

I can now find my way quickly around the sky at a moment's glance up. I'm familiar with its 'landmarks'. Spot faint satellites. And curse like a drunken sailor when dew sets in!

As money became less of an issue, I then reasoned: I can get a smaller scope, get bogged down with mount issues, software bugs, processing horrors, and try to find time that I no longer had. Or, I can get a bigger scope and simple mount and exploit the years of visual experience I now have, and be up and running at a moments notice.

I've got a little webcam-come-astrocam that I made from the article in the Projects here in IIS. This is as far into photography as I'd like to go. And a lovely little tool it is too. For people who have mobility difficulties, to rig this little cam to a scope and laptop so that they can see the Moon & Saturn on a screen and see the image bounce around when you touch the scope or a breeze shakes it, it's just as good as through the eyepiece. When a kid in a wheelchair sees the rings of Saturn this way, the OOOHs & AAHHs are just as awesome!

Another thing, I love using different scopes too. I've got four, five if you include binos. They all tell a different story about the same thing. They all have their own quirks. They are all beautiful too. Shame I've only got two eyes, and stuck in the one head! :question:

Mental.

[mickkk]

When I was lil, the "how and why" books, I think thats what they were called, showed the moon breaking off from the earth. Then we got to see man landing on the moon.

Now i can look at an object in the sky, look it up on stellar or similar then find images taken from earth, hubble, spritzer etc. So much change in so little time.

Being a believer in life existing somewhere other than earth, I always have a glance upwards, you never know what you might see. I reckon "they"know we are here and are sending signals, we just dont have the right receiver yet. I also think that they dont want a bar of us due to our behaviour as a species. Ive seen things that are unexplained, I want to see more, thats why I look.

I have an inquiring mind, partly formed through those how and why books that I never believed anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGinh4DbFwI

[Robh]

Nothing puts things into better perspective than getting out under the stars and observing objects in our Galaxy and way beyond. I like the quiet, relaxed atmosphere, away from the hustle and bustle of everyday existence, where I can ponder why we are here at all. Star-hopping is just sheer fun and getting to know that big road map of the sky is immensely rewarding. You just never run out of new objects to find and as you revisit a favourite again, there is always something you never noticed before. I guess its like going on a big adventure just by pointing that telescope in a new direction.

Regards, Rob.

[barx1963]

Paddy
Nice question. When I was a kid, I loved SF books, all the really trashy ones, Heinlein, Norton et al. From that I developed an interest in astronomy, but due to a lack of funds (I was only 14!) couldn't indulge. After many years, and interests (archery, bushwalking, dancing, computers and some others!) I felt a twinge of regret that I had never followed up my old interest. Took the plunge and bought a scope, did some research online (found IIS among others) bough mags, got to a few star parties, bought a bigger scope and more bits and bobs. Through all this I have never lost a sense of wonder when I look at the night sky, and thanks to my resurge of interest, I can now share that with others.
I think I have a natural curiosity about things, and to look at the sky and not wonder, what else is there that I can't see, seems to me a waste and an intellect, even a pretty poor one like mine.
Sorry to ramble!!
Malcolm

[AndrewJ]

Every now and then i like to just point my scope into an interesting area, turn off the tracking, and just watch the sky drift through the EP.
Cant do that with a camera.

Also, i sometimes wonder what astro "photography" really means these days, based on the amount of digital processing used to make the product match someones idea of "what it should be".
Bit like paintbrushing a supermodel.
Sure there are some really interesting results, but are they real????,
vs an immediate view in an EP.
( and i know a picture gets way more faint detail than an EP can
but all that means is a visual user needs a bigger aperture:D )

Andrew

[Liz]

Yes, definitely visual for me too. As has been said, I love the ease of setting up the Dob and finding a beautiful object quickly and simply.
I also love taking pics, but with camera on tripod, and not attached to the scope. So much work involved these days in the processing afterwoods of images. :eyepop:

[Jen]

Because i have a crappy mount and dont know how to use my camera properly yet :lol::lol:

Cant beat seeing things with your own eyes though and showing off in front of your friends :P i still go WOW every time i see Saturn ;)

[Suzy]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Classic!
Out of the blue comes a random line like that...You've got the best humour Jen!

[hotspur]

I prefer visual over imaging any day,Its far more enjoyable-looking through my 13 mm T6 naglar on my Vixen ED 103 at NGC 5139 and similar on a 10 out of 10 seeing night,its orgasmic! like crushed diamonds on black velvet-personally this has no peer.Although doing visual using other instruments is a bit of a let down,once you look through these modern day 4 and 5 inch ED refractors,looking through a old dob is a bit of a let down.

I only do imaging so people know I am a serious amateur astronomer,although I do not like it,find it very tiresome and boring.But the results are good to see,and people do not look down on you if you are into imaging.

[Kevnool]

I love going up to the eyepiece and capturing the image with my own eyes.

Sure you can look at images with awe with there false coloring and a little over or under processing,But to see people peek into that eyepiece and here the wow factor from them actually seeing it with there own eyes and listening in on the conversations around the scope is a very rewarding experience.

Cheers Kev.

[WadeH]

Why not!!! LOL

[Jen]

;) Awwww thanks Suzy :lol:

[Paddy]

Thanks again to all who posted to this thread - I really enjoyed reading the variety of the responses.