5D first pic

[avandonk]

This is a ten second exposure 85mm F2.0 ISO 1600 no filters, quickly taken on 26-12-2005 (morning). Filtered with Noiseware to reduce size and colour auto corrected in Photoshop.
Vignetting is more obvious with a full frame. Looks very promising.
I have changed the image as the other is no longer available.
Terry's is much better.
http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/hutech_5d__first_results
Bert

[acropolite]

Looks good Bert, surprising there's that much vignetting from an 85mm lens, but that's a lens issue I guess.:camera:

[atalas]

Bert I had to put my sunnies on ! :scared:

[Itchy]

Hi Bert


Great Chrissy Present!

and WOW, Barnard's loop in 10sec!!!:scared2: :party: :party2:
I ran your image through ABE to see what it could do with the vignetting. A little more adjusment in PSCS2 and this is what I got (I also used IP's Halo reduction tool).

I tell you what though, those 12 Mp images stretch the PC's capability to the limit!!!

Cheers

[avandonk]

Here is a pic of the 20D frame superimposed on 5D. People are finding with full frame even the best L lenses are found wanting. we have all been spoilt by only using the very good inner part of the images with the smaller format sensors.


Bert

[avandonk]

Itchy thats much better than I could get. I still have a lot to learn about image processing. I have a longer exposure taken with an LPR filter if you want me to email it to you, and see what you can do with it.

Bert

[Itchy]

Hi Bert,

No problems. I'm heading out for the day now, but I'll have a go later.

Cheers

[CometGuy]

Bert,

Very nice, check you PM I just sent you a processed Eta Carinae shot - for 10 seconds amazing!

Terry

[avandonk]

Cometguy just returned a pic of Carina that he processed. Again 5D with 85mm F1.8 at F2.0 for 10sec ISO 1600 no filters from light polluted Eltham

http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/temp2.jpg

[CometGuy]

Bert,

This camera is amazing, the sensitivity and noise performance is a lot better than my modded 300D! Anyone, I have posted all this here (including the LPR shot of Orion which I though was lot longer than 82 secs!):

http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/hutech_5d__first_results

Terry

[avandonk]

I am just as stunned! Thats great processing. I forgot to even turn on the in camera noise reduction. If it is clear tonight will take some pictures with the 300mm F2.8L. Should have metioned they were all taken with the camera on the HEQ5 mount unguided.


Bert

[acropolite]

Bert, I wonder if the vignetting is a result of the angle that the light is reaching the outer part of the sensor. I think I read somewhere that digital sensors work best if the light reaches the sensor at (closest to) right angles and that film was more tolerant in that regard.:confuse3: Just looked up the article, the problem is minimised in telephoto lenses (at the lens design stage) by lengthening the back focus and apparently lenses designed for DSLR's have longer back focus to allow light to strike the sensor at angles that are closer to perpendicular. If you're interested I could scan the article and PM to you.

[avandonk]

I sure that could be one factor. But it is a big ask for any lens. Canon tries to overcome this by having a microlens on each sensor element to concentrate the light.

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/cmos/technology-e/light_gathering.html

I suspect even the 300mm F2.8 L will have some vignetting. with astrophotography we are really pushing everything to the limit.

I will have to improve my image processing methods as CometGuy and Itchy are far more knowledgable than me.

Bert

[Harlequin]

Thanks for sharing the amazing images. =)


Regards

Daniel

[Striker]

Great stuff Bert and Terry,

Tony I cant wait for this DSLR processing course your doing at Lostock....I'm first.

[TidaLpHasE]

:scared:I can't believe the detail from a 10 second shot, that is one awsome sensor.

Look forward to your future image posting Bert;)

[CometGuy]

More wonderful pics from Bert overnight posted at:

http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/hutech_5d__first_results

For comparision I have posted a 180 second shot made with my 300D + 50mm lens to compare with Berts 5D + 85mm lens (similiar field of view). To be fair on the 300D :) the shot was made at 3x slower optical speed (f3.5 vs f2) and in 26 C ambient versus 12 C (according to BOM records). Its possible I was using the Peltier cooler so equivalent temperature would have then been ~20C. When it is clear again I'll do a 10sec 50mm f2.0 shot of Orion with the 300D to get a better comparision. However, it is clear there have been some major improvements in noise and sensitivity!

Terry

[Itchy]

Hi Terry

The 5D certainly looks like a keeper! I had a go at processing Bert's 82 sec Orion and had a lot of trouble dealing with the vignetting. I note that your processing of that pic has similar problems. I used ABE to do the job, but it left the image with a large dark ring in the centre (similar to your's but worse). It would appear that the combination of the sensor size and the sensitivity of the chip are accentuating the vignetting of the lens much more than previous models. I would be really keen to see the same shot processed with a flat frame. Bert: any chance?

Cheers

[avandonk]

Hi Itchy I can email you a flat frame if you want. I am going to send Terry a cd with raw frames. PM me if you want me to mail the raw frames to you as well. I am keen to find out how you both go processing these images as its a whole new ball game.

Bert

[avandonk]

I do not know how to properly process these images yet.But I do know a bit of what to do with images through a nebula filter.
Here is a picture of the LMC taken with a nebula filter.
5DH 7X60s summed 300mm @ F2.8 ISO 800. This is equivalent to a seven minute exposure.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/LMCNEB.jpg

This is why I bought this camera. It can see H alpha better and has very low noise. I am also looking forward to seeing how it performs on larger telescopes at dark sky sites.

Bert

[TidaLpHasE]

:)Awsome is an understatement, the detail obtained from the 10 second eta wide field, is unbelievable.

I can definately see myself being challenged processing images with this camera (when it arrives), would there be an improvement using it through the scope prime focus? I would love to see a pic through an ed80 or similar.

[avandonk]

Did you look a the 7min LMC pic through nebula filter.
The 80ED would not show as much if any vignetting as long as the T-mount aperture is greater than the diagonal of a 35mm frame ie 43mm. I have a 80ED and a Hutech T-mount with an aperture of 46mm, will take some pics tonight if clear.

Bert

[TidaLpHasE]

:)Bert, i have checked all your pics with this camera at Terry's site, I am still amazed at the detail it collects.

I am thinking that due to its sensitivity, it would show a lot more errors in tracking and alignment than a standard sensor would, and also with the full frame, degrade the corner quality somewhat more than normal.

I have just looked at my T-Mount adapter, and noted its inside diameter is 41.5mm, i will be needing a replacement for this camera to fit the sensor size as you mentioned.

Is there anywhere in Oz or Melbourne that i can get one? or is it another o/s purchase?

thanks, Trevor.....

[avandonk]

A diameter of 41.5 should be OK, it's just some only have a 32mm aperture. I got mine from Hutech, they have their own system with extension tubes etc.

I just took some images with an 80ED and the 5D. Seemed to go OK. you are correct I think autoguiding is a must.

Here is a four minute exposure 600mm F7.5 (80ED) ISO 800 LPR filter.
A single JPG auto colour corrected in Photoshop filtered with noiseware.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/Image_0167ps1_filtered.jpg

This tells me the earlier shots may have been overexposed.

Bert

[CometGuy]

Bert/Trevor,

The 80ED seems to holdup very well at the edges, I was expecting worse. But you should use a flat field if you can.

Terry

[Striker]

About tiime you gave us something to really look at Bert....that looks magnificent Bert.

looking forward to more images from you.

[avandonk]

Is there a suitable field corrector available? Did the CD's arrive?
I was pleasantly surprised how well the 80ED held up with a full frame.
There is a bit of vignetting due to the telescope baffles and focuser.

Bert

[[1ponders]]

Hi Bert, apparently the Televue 0.8 works well with the Orion. There's a bit of info on reducers for the Orion here http://webcaddy.com.au/astro/DSLR_Focal_Reducer.htm

[RB]

Bert I had a go at your image to see if the vignetting could be improved.
The outer edges still exibit a bit and obviously I've compressed it alot for the forum.

Also (you probably know) if you shoot in RAW you can do adjustments through the Photoshops RAW plugin to adjust the vignetting.

[avandonk]

Yes It looks much better. I just put a pic up from a jpg with minimal processing (at 5AM) to give an idea of the amazing performance of this camera.

I will have a go at some raw files. Hope to take more tonight.

Bert

[avandonk]

Have a play with this one it is a cropped (to keep the size down) jpg from four stacked tiffs.Same exposure etc as the previous.

2.4M
http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/Orion.jpg


Bert

[RB]

Here's a small version of that one Bert.

[avandonk]

What did you do to it. I only have Photoshop essentials should I get the full version? Ph. Ess. doesn't support 16 bit tiff.


Bert

[Striker]

Nicely dont Andrew.....come on let us know what you did.

Great shot Bert.

[RB]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I basically follow these steps when I process. (Mind you I'm only learning so feel free to add to this, anyone.)

I first convert to 16 bit under the Image|Mode menu in PhotoShop CS.
It's best to shoot in RAW mode in the first place, but I forget sometimes.

Under Image|Adjustments|Levels... I click on the Black eyedroper and click on somewhere on the image which should be black. This stretches the histogramme. Then I adjust the sliders so the black,grey and white pointers encompasses the histogramme.

I click on Auto Contrast under Image|Adjustments|
If it looks ok I move on.

Curves under the Image|Adjustments|Curves menu is a big step where I adjust the Rubberband line into an "S" curve to bring out some colour detail, very subjective and up to you what you like best.

Moving on to the next major step Image|Adjustments|Colour Balance and here is where you can adjust each colour channel in the High,Medium and low Tone Balance of the histogramme.
I adjust with the "Preserve Luminosity" on.
Usually I boost the blue in the high Tone Balance, cut the green back and depending on the subject either boost or cut back on the red.

I also cut back on the blue in the Low Tone Balance and boost the green as needed.

Then under the Image|Adjustments|Brightness/Contrast I will cut back on the brightness and boost the contrast till I'm happy with it.

The Trap is always a difficult area unless you stack a few different frames taken at different ISO/exposure.

I then move down to Image|Adjustments|Photo Filter and if needed I apply an appropriate filter to bring out some final colour detail. (not always useful).

At this point I move over to the Filter menu and I use two plug ins which I have bought.

The first is RC- GradientXterminator from http://www.rc-astro.com/
which helps get rid of gradients and some vengetting.

Then I use Neat Image to clean up the noise.
I save it in tiff and then uncheck the 16 bit mode so I can save it in jpg (8 bit mode) for the forum.

I've been experimenting and it's a trial and error process sometimes.

The two books I've been learning from have been invaluable.
The New CCD Astronomy by Ron Wodaski and
The Introduction to Digital Astrophotography by Robert Reeves.
I bought both from Bintel and have been digesting all the info from these great books.

:)

[avandonk]

Thanks for that.Could you email me the largest version. Thanks. Looks like I have to get some books and do some careful reading.

Bert

[Striker]

Very nice process their Andrew.....you have shown me a few more proccessing tips thanks...

This is my attempt Bert.

[avandonk]

OK from now on, I'll shoot them and you guys clean them.

Bert

[CometGuy]

Bert,

This might be useful, I have just posted step-by-step screen captures showing you the basic method of how I processed vignetting in your jpegs using IRIS. I will annotate them over the weekend, but you should be able follow the process somewhat.

http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/iris_tut1

Terry

[CometGuy]

Very nice job Andrew :)

Terry

[RB]

Your an inspiration Terry.

[RB]

Bert was that a stack of four different tiffs?

I'd like to have a go at one with say four stacked frames taken with different ISO and exposure rates.
This will capture bright detail as well as fine detail in the trap without overexposing the cetre region.

[avandonk]

Heres another to play with, stack of four tiffs averaged 6min ISO800 80ED

2.8M
http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/LMC80ed.jpg

I also changed the RP to one with a shorter drawtube so vignetting is a lot less.
Bert

[ving]

the comparison with the 300d is interesting :)
great pics...

[davidpretorius]

thanks for leting have to opportunity to play with such great data!!!


heres my go with iris5.2

[Striker]

I may have darken the back ground too much Bert....but I like it better this way for widefield.

Thanks for letting me have a go...great image...too bad we have to crop and Jpeg compress so much to post on the forums...it really shows in widefield shots.

[tornado33]

Gee Barnards Loop in 10 seconds, even SBIG users will salivate at that! The Digital Quantum Efficiency of the 5D's sensor must be well above earlier DSLRs :)
Scott

[avandonk]

I am still stunned Scott at the performance of this camera, and even more stunned with the depth and breadth of knowledge in this forum. I took a chance on the performance of this camera purely on its noise performance. The 20D while being a very good terrestial camera was stopping me from doing what I wanted to do, ie take pictures and show them as they would look if the sky was much brighter.

This has been a well worthwhile purchase as I am slowly finding out.

Bert

[CometGuy]

Here is my attempt, gradient correction was a real pain as I was loosing the impact of the LMC bar. As an experiement I ended up having to use Berts 300mm FL image to help correct the background gradient - see attached. There are some nice tricks in IRIS that I employed to do this that allowed me to stretch and rotate a previously processed 300mm FL image onto the 80ED image and then take a difference in backgrounds between them. Its still not great, and there are some residual gradients that need to be removed.

[CometGuy]

All,

My 2cents!...regarding the sensitivity of the modded 5D the big improvements over say the 300D/350D/10D/20D cameras I would say are due to the larger pixels. Compared to the 20D/350D the pixel area is over 60% greater which translates to a 60% increase in sensitivity, given that the technology is problably the same. The noise levels are extremely low in the 20D/350D/5D and up to 3x lower than the 300D/10D in shorter exposures. You can see this in my modified 300D comparision images of Orion especially the shorter exposures (although the difference diminishes with increased exposure as noise sky fog starts to be the limiting factor).

Terry

[avandonk]

I hate to do this to you but here is another. I had to go to a first birthday party and it was so much fun. OK enjoy playing

4X3min ISO 1600 LPR filter 300mm F2.8.stacked with Registax slightly enhanced
2.2M
http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/car_rx_ps07.jpg
Changed to a later version

Bert

[CometGuy]

Scott,

Re: Barnards loop in 10seconds...actually if you really contrast stretch the modified 300D will start to record Barnards loop in 10 seconds - just need to use a fast lens. See attached image which is 10 seconds @ f2 and ISO1600.

I have just uploaded a modified 300D shot of Orion, processed identically to Berts 5D shot. Field of view, ISO and focal ratio where the same as his shot - the important DIFFERENCE is the exposure is 3x longer for the 300D!

http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/image/54146739

http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/image/53965466

Happy new year all...16 minutes to go for us

:party:

Terry

[CometGuy]

Bert,

Heres my version of your Eta Carinae. Pretty basic processing, basically gradient correction and exagerated the red channel a little (because thats the way we like our nebula :) ) The exif seems to have been lost from the jpeg, so I don't know what the exposure, ISO is. There is a bigger version at:

http://www.pbase.com/terrylovejoy/image/54204797

Have you thought about the 300mm f2.8 + 2x converter? You would get better edge performance for sure.

Terry

[xrekcor]

Wow! what can one say the 5D is a lovely piece of gear! I'm sure your going to
have endless fun with it. I think the big astro camera guys are not in a league
of their own anymore, especially when you see these new digitals gaining on them.
They have certainly turned my head and my thoughts on where I'll go get a decent
astro camera. I wonder if they plan on making a mono in the future.

Please keep them coming!!!

regards,CS

[avandonk]

360s ISO800 80ED LPR filter in camera noise reduction ON.

Bert

[avandonk]

Here is one from last night of LMC . 18 tiffs 8bit stacked with Registax slightly enhanced.

6x1min +6X2min+6X3min ISO 1600 LPR filter 300mm F2.8
1.4M
http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/LMC_300.jpg



Bert

[avandonk]

Carina in better focus

4X3min ISO 1600 LPR filter 300mm F2.8.stacked with Registax slightly enhanced.
Cloud rolled in so could not do the shorter exposures.
2.3M
http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/car_rx_ps07.jpg

Bert

[[1ponders]]

I had a bit of a play with your LMC Bert. Got most of the vignetting but still need to work on the colour/curves/levels balance

[[1ponders]]

And also a go at your Eta Car. Sorry about the stars, but the vignettings pretty much gone.

[avandonk]

I am going to have to work out the best way to eliminate the vignetting.Were the stars ok in your big version of Carina Paul?

[[1ponders]]

They were a bit sharp. The masking technique I'm using also seems to act as an unsharp layer mask. I've still got to work on it a bit.


Edit: I went back and redid the mask. I think that part of the problem is that your jpeg is only an 8 bit image and after I mask the original there is information lost that becomes obvious when I stretch it in level and curves. I've included your first tarantula image after gradient removal and the histograms as I processed the image.

[[1ponders]]

Bert this is the levels histogram from your original image for comparison.

[avandonk]

The Carina shot was overexposed especially if raw to tiff is only 8bit. I'll wait until I have PS that can handle 16bit.

If you want the original Raw files can send them by snail mail.

Bert

[avandonk]

Tried processing at 16bit,works much better. I still have a lot to learn. I used GradientXterminator for the vignetting.
The Carina pic 4X180s ISO1600 300mm F2.8 in camera noise reduction Hutech LPR filter, stacked with Registar.
LMC 6x1min +6X2min+6X3min ,stacked with Registar,ISO 1600 LPR filter 300mm F2.8

1.8M
http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/Car_16_1.jpg
1.8M
http://users.bigpond.net.au/avandonk/LMC_16_1.jpg

Bert

[[1ponders]]

I noticed a big difference in image quality when stretching levels and using curves, after I switched from using 8bit jpegs to 16bit tifs. Using photoshop makes to old laptop grunt and groan though :)

[RB]

Editing in 16 bit mode makes a big difference.

;)

[tornado33]

I love that eta carina shot with the LPR filter. I must get my 6 inch F3.6 Schmidt Newt out and try for Eta carina with the 2 inch UHCS filter :) Though as I dont have an off axis guider for the 6 inch I cant do the 10 min + shots I like doing with the 10 inch without getting flexure based guide errors.

[Itchy]

Hi Guys,


Bert sent me some RAW files from the 5DH. He also sent some flat frames for his 300mm f2.8 lens. So far I have only processed his 4x60sec Orion shots. Here is the result when corrected with the flats. With such a large sensor, I figured it could take a crop too.

I am stilled stunned with the sensitivity of the camera.

.

[beren]

WOw :)