The age old question: What telescope to purchase?

[shelltree]

I've been reading a LOT lately about telescopes and the like, trying to decide what I want to purchase and what I'll mainly be wanting to use it for. Although I'd really like to get into astrophotography as well, it seems that getting really great views and imaging don't seem to go hand in hand and I'd end up spending a fortune I don't have.

I've been looking at the 12" auto-tracking collapsible Dobsonian with Direct SLR camera connection as an option, as I recently looked thorough a 10" Dob and liked what I saw. I'm mainly considering the auto-tracking, SLR connection 12" hoping that I'd be able to attempt some astrophotography in the future using such a telescope but I've heard a lot of mixed things about using Dobsonians for imaging and that other scopes with smaller apertures are better... I hope to attend the next Brisbane Astronomical Society public night at Mt. Coot-tha and get some more advice but I'd like to know a bit more about what I'm talkinng about before I do! Oh, I'm so confused, there is so much to consider!

All your wonderful help would be muchly appreciated :)

[Esseth]

I first stuck my head into the astronomy bucket almost a year ago and i still have not gotten to a Mt Cootha night... Ill check when the next one is and mark it as a must attend lol..

Anywho, the path i ended up going down was a standard 8" Dob, just to confirm it was something that i would be interested in past next week. Currently i am saving for my next new scope that will be a viewing tool and also dabble with astrophtography on the side... As far as i see it, no need to rush... the universe is not going anywhere quickly.

However should Eta Carina decide its time to blow... then rush out and buy the best scope you can afford lol

[shelltree]

Haha, you definitely should come along so I don't feel so lonely and overwhelmed :P I'm fairly certain the next one is the 21st of August, pending weather from 7pm to 9pm.

And I'm starting to consider more and more just getting a standard 10" or 12" Dob and maybe look at getting a Black Diamond series further down the track if I decide that I definitely want to get into astrophotography. Or I could buy it at the same time...lol. Let's hope Eta Carina doesn't blow up before I get a scope, I would be most unimpressed :lol:

[[1ponders]]

Shell, while it is possible to do astrophotography with a dob (Astrophotography with a Dob (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-201-0-0-1-0.html)), visual astronomy and astrophotography really are two different horses in different races.

What you might consider is; If you go for a dob and then decide you want to do photography you have something you could EQmount. And you've only spent on scope and some eyepieces. But unless you enjoy the challenge and research and breaking new ground every night trying to image through a Dob then you will want to spend considerably more for imaging. If you don't enjoy it then you have spent a considerable amount of money to find that out.

Mind you there are plenty here on IIS that would appreciate that sort of sale. :)

Start with the dob. I'll be looking for a good dob soon, now that my imaging gives me time to sit back and enjoy the sky. ;)

[shelltree]

Hi Paul, thanks for your comment, just wondering if I got the auto tracking dob would I still find it rather difficult to do astrophotography with it? I'm considering just getting the non-auto tracking 12" dob then maybe investing in a 150mm Black Diamond with EQ5 mount and the dual axis motor drive later down the track if I'm still really itching to try my hand at astrophotography. I'm finding it hard to find just the solid tube 12" Dob and a price and when I do they're just as expensive as the collapsible dob.

Many thanks for all your advice!

Edit: I have found a Bintel 12" Dobsonian, is Bintel a good brand?

[[1ponders]]

being able to track with a dob will help. It will definitely be helpful for imaging planets with a webcam. You will quickly get field rotation from using an Alt Az mount with deep sky with a DSLR. Its the limitation of the mount not the scope. You can do some deep sky astrophotography will some success using an EQ platform.

The idea of a Dob and imaging down the line, getting a starting setup is a good idea. The best of both worlds.

[Esseth]

Yeah, as far as i can tell Bintel is fine. Alot of scopes are made at the same factories and then just rebranded.

Go cheaper to get started and then when you swing to AP pay the big $$ lol. HEQ5 is the mount i am aiming for, but that requires saving as it is double the cost of the 8"dob lol... not to mention what i am even going to put on it...

[shelltree]

Oh money, where art thou when we need you most? Haha. I also do photography so I understand expensive hobbies :( I just love it so damn much though!

I think the Bintel 12" Dob is the way I'm going to go. It's $949 so about $400 cheaper than the collapsible Dob and that way I can find my way around the night sky, learn a lot of things in the process and be patient until I know exactly if I want to travel down the expensive AP road. Now, the only problem with getting the Bintel is I'll have to get it by freight, so comes the next question...Will it fit in my car? lol.

[Esseth]

Well if you drive one of these i would say yes....

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/triple-axle-hummer-limo.jpg

But i think the 12" is about 1.5m long plus the base, so aim for a station wagon/4wd or similar. We have an Astra and the 8" is maxing out the room available when we take it anywhere (OTA secured along the back seat and the base in the boot).

Something i read when i was planning to buy my scope "The scope that is best for you, is the one that you will use the most"

[bmitchell82]

if Astrophotography might be on the books, definitely go for a Sky watcher dob 8 or 10" with 8 being slightly more preferable as it mounts better to the NEQ6-w Mount.

The reason why i say go skywatcher over bintel/GSO is that i will focus without chopping the tube or replacing the focuser with a ultra low profile version.

A 8 or 10" will give you the views that wont dissapoint but the 12" can do it better, but when it comes to mounting the 12 for photography, your going to need a 8k mount to do it properly.

have a squiz at my website some of the photos had been taken with a 10" dobsonian on a EQ6Pro mount just so you can understand what you can do with this type of setup.:thumbsup:

Welcome to our community of like minded peoples

[shelltree]

Cheers Brendan, I appreciate the help. So Bintel isn't a good brand? I didn't really understand about it focusing without chopping the tube etc... :confused2:

I'm now not sure whether to just go the 12" or get a 10" but I'm considering and thinking I'll probably want something else down the track for imaging alone so I can still take in the sights. I think I've been pretty set on the 12" for awhile haha.

[Rockah]

Shell, Bintel scopes are re-branded GSO telescopes - a chinese brand that a lot of people like, but I haven't had any experience with it personally except for a couple of accessories. So unfortunately I can't say whether their dobs are good, but what I think Brendan was emphasising was that if you want to do photography with a newtonian/dobsonian you will have focus issues when using an SLR camera - you can't get the draw tube of the focuser in far enough to achieve focus. With the skywatcher tubes (and this is where I have experience) you can make a very small adjustment to the primary mirror and that's it - you've got focus. No need to cut the tube down or change the focuser, so I assume based on what Brendan is suggesting, is that the Bintel/GSO brand might not be able to do this as easily, and you'd have to take more drastic measures to focus with your camera.

I've got an 8inch skywatcher newtonian and the other night I took it out when the moon wasn't creating too much extra light, roughly polar aligned my mount (and the neighbours lights shining down on me!) and took one 30 second shot of M17 and I was so shocked how it turned out (my first ever attempt, so still pretty bad), but I was very impressed with what such a cheap scope can achieve, and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface with all the settings, autoguiding, etc - everything is stock. So I'm sure with a 10 inch you'll be very happy.

Believe me, if you love photography, you're going to be wanting to do long exposure stuff eventually to capture DSOs. When you get to this point, your going to need a good equatorial mount that will allow for your scope plus everything else - camera, guidescope, autoguider etc. If you get a 12inch dob/newtonian, you'll need a mamoth mount in the future. I have an HEQ5 Pro and that I can only use my 8inch newt alone on it and that's pushing it.

[bmitchell82]

hehehe GSO scopes there is nothing wrong with them ive seen both in the flesh, and would say that the SW is slightly better build quality but they are much of the muchness.

You say that you would probably get a scope to do the job later. That is even better, go with the 12 now and then while you image you can view. :D WIN WIN. i get quite board when my rig is working seamlessly and it happens pretty much all the time now. i just wish i had a extra scope to point around the sky to fry time :)

keep the questions coming:thumbsup:

[shelltree]

Thank you both Zal and Brendan, I really appreciate you both taking the time to give me some advice.

I think I've narrowed down my options to either the 12" Bintel Dob (going to do a bit more research on the brand and reviews to make sure I won't regret it) or the Skywatcher 12" Dob (which is $400 more expensive but if the brand is better I don't mind spending a bit extra).

As I've still got a few months til I'll be able to afford my telescope I'd also like to ask what brands and size eye pieces you recommend? I know the Dob's usually come with a couple but I may want to get a couple extra that I know will be good. And... a barlow?? :confused2: :confused2:

Gosh, I've got telescopes on the brain, I even dreamt about them last night!

[Esseth]

I just recently bought my first two good quality EP's - Vixen 18mm and 12mm. I have to say, it makes a world of difference. Best advice go for quality over quantity. Next on the list is a good quality barlow, as putting decent EP's in a low quality barlow ruins the fact of buying expensive...

[bmitchell82]

ide say get a good quality 20mm ep. low power wider field. great for almost everything. then save for a quality 2x barlow.

As for your purchase, go and have a look at them, feel them, move them about if you can!

[shelltree]

I decided to try and pick up a 20kg bag of cement because the 12" Bintel OTA weighs 20kg and it was really heavy :( I really really want the 12" and I'd hate to get the 10" then wish I'd got the 12" and just built some muscle :P I'd probably end up getting a trolley to wheel it out into the yard, just to make things a bit easier but I also don't want to depend on it either...

[bmitchell82]

the other thing you could look at doing is getting a collapsible version they split into bits so you can move them around easier.

[shelltree]

I've thought about it but they're also $700 more expensive than the 12" Bintel and I just had a look at the tube weight of the 12" collapsible dob on Sirius Optics and apparently it weighs 21kg...yo what?

[bmitchell82]

To be honest with you, a 10" will give you unreal views as they are, and it would take you a good year or maybe more to actually pick differences within the scopes. If you where talking the difference between say a 16" and a 10" then you would be able to see some differences from the start.

Learning to view though a telescope is a art, one that can be learnt and isn't super difficult but there are techniques to viewing. So if it where me, i would go the 10" for now, and if you decide that you can handle and would like more aperture you can resell the 10" as they generally hold their value quite well and up size.

Just for example i can see M83 with details, Centuras A with details even to the dark sash across the front, i can see the bits in there. You can see the bubble on Eta carina, crab nebula, tarantula neb, M42 + running man and a score of other extended nebs. Ive viewed 89 of the possible 104 messier objects, seen the flame nebula that sits beside the horse head and i am not sure if i saw the horse head, but.... yeah i thought i just made it out. I used a Meade series 5000 20mm super plossel ep (not expensive and not absolutely brilliant but nice approx $129 from bintel) with a bintel 2" 2x ED barlow and my 10" to do all of these objects. hope that helps:thumbsup:

[shelltree]

Thanks Brendan, that did really help a lot :) And the great thing about getting the 10" also is I can get it from Sirius Optics for $795 and not have to stuff around with freight! And I can spend a little on a good ep! Time to get out my star ware book and read up some more on eye pieces and barlows.

[Jeeps]

Today i bought a 10" skywatcher flex dob, the collapsible one in that nice black paint. I paid about the going price and took it home and set it up. This is my first 'proper' scope after playing for a few years with a terrible OTA on a horrible mount ;) I'd been umm'ing and ahh'ing for quite some time on whether to get a small GOTO or something with a motor etc, but decided that i wanted aperture more than anything LOL :)

Took me about 45 minutes, maybe more to completely pull it all out of the boxes and set it up. I'm very impressed with the build quality. It needed colimation but with my new laser colimator it was only a 60 second job after being shown how to do it in the shop. This model has nice big knobs on the primary mirror and I wonder if i can get knobs for the secondary? It's far more heavy and bulky than i anticipated! I think i'll get a hand trolley eventually... ;)

Out it came tonight and i let it cool for an hour and went back out and low and behold in the hour it had clouded over. Never mind, it cleared within 10 minutes, as it does here on the mountains. Well the moon is almost full so it took up the whole sky but with the standard ep's and a cheap barlow the detail was outstanding, but i need a moon filter as it's FAR too bright! Craters within craters were easily seen with the 10mm & barlow. Eventually jupiter rose in the east and with the standard 25mm a faint cloud band or two could be seen as could 4-5 moons. With the standard 10mm ep &/or barlow it wasn't too crash hot either due to cloud, the moon or the quality of the 10mm ep. Maybe it was simply still too low on the horizon. The cloud came back so i called it a night and collapsed the dob, carried it up into the house quite easily, although slowly as it weighs a ton!

Overall i'm very happy with the dob, but i can't wait till i get a moonless night. I now need to learn up and invest in some decent eyepieces ;)

cheers

[Colin_Fraser]

Lucky bugger :)

The scope I have my eyes on will not be available until September :(

[shelltree]

Thanks for sharing your experience with a 10" Sam, just makes me even more excited and impatient about getting it!! :)

[bmitchell82]

:) 10" is a nice little scope Just be sure to buy a laser collimator and a cheshire eye piece. these are 2 pieces of equipment that every beginner should have from day dot when using Newtonians. without them a newt is next to useless.

[shelltree]

Thanks mate, I'll add that to the list, I was going to ask them about the laser collimators when I go to purchase it, I hope they can give me a run down of how it's done too!

[Esseth]

First time i did it, i was watching (and pausing quite often) this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME-CBtemo7Q

[shelltree]

Bookmarked! Thanks for that :)

[shelltree]

I tell you, as soon as I made the ultimate decision to get the 10" Dob, my money was sabotaged by debt and necessities I'd rather not pay for. Plus, it's been raining ALL week, I mean, c'mon!

[bmitchell82]

just bite the bullet :D hehehe sometimes you gotta live off noodles for a week to get what you want!

[shelltree]

I'm living off soup and safety pinning my pants back together but alas I despise credit cards and don't own one myself so I can't make a terrible/awesome decision.

[Jeeps]

No problem! Just be aware of the weight of the thing! I seperate it and place the tube on a bean bag, carry the base out and then the tube last. I live in a dark sky location with no street lights however lots of trees so i find i need to move around the yard a fair bit to see north for example. I live in a quiet cul-de-sac so i often just setup in the middle of the bitumen road and have all night without a car coming past ;) It does seem to go out of collimation every night... ?





I've got a laser collimator but not a cheshire. Is there any reason i should get a cheshire as well?



The rain is bugging me but so is the moon. I can't wait for a dark night! Although with the full moon blazing away on sunday i did pick up M7, NCG6441 (above scorpio), Cru cluster (above crux) but not much else. I don't know the sky well but i'm learning - i just need to get out there when the clouds clear.

Here's a pic of the new toy:


http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp300/jeeps_photo/Astronomy/Skywatcher10inchdob.jpg



Now i need to start looking at expanding my eyepiece collection, getting filters... etc. ;)

cheers

[bmitchell82]

i use it as a redundancy system, don't always trust a laser they are not fix all tool that will always be right. on the other hand a set of cats eye collimation tools is :) but they are not as easy to use.:thumbsup:

[shelltree]

I use to only have one street light on my street which would have been perfect but now there's another two lights that have been put up since the new estate across the road was built :( I can see most of the sky to the north from a particular spot in my backyard (consequently near where I'll be storing my telescope) but I can only see very well to the east from another spot in my backyard that has power lines above it :mad2: So yes, I think I'll be moving it around a lot :lol: I just have to get use to all the creepy sounds of the night that come with living on acreage.

[Esseth]

Id rather be on acreage and where i am sometimes... smack bang in the middle of Fortitude Valley...

Fun fun, i think it was only a 20-25sec exp

[shelltree]

Oh my, that's horrible :( I live about 40-45 minutes away from the city and at the end of a street and there's no one living next door at the moment ( have considered sneeking into their yard as it's higher ground but I don't think I'm capable of lugging a 10" Dob up a ladder and over a fence :P)

I'm pretty excited about getting my telescope!! When I can afford it...:rolleyes:

[Peter S]

I'm looking to buy my second scope. 1st was a 10" reflector. Too big for first scope given where i had to carry it to get to the viewing area. Also didn't know much about setting up a goto. very quickly disillusioned. 10 years later (abouts) i'm looking to a refractor. A TAK TSA 102S or a William Optics FLT 110. Both Triplets. I want to use my canon 7D off the back. But i want to do visual as well. one supplier tells me the TAK is really good at Astrophotography and not so good at Visual. He tells me his product is superior on both counts. The other tells me the TAK is all made in Japan and the other is make in Taiwan or China. 1 review mentioned that the glass on the WO is made in Russia, another says Taiwan. The seller tells me they are the same optics brand as the TAK (Japanese). I want a quality product (it's that time of life) and am happy to make the investment. Anyone got any ideas OR FACTS. Both are beautiful scopes, but how well made and how accurate is the collimination out of the box. Help please.