Dissapointed with GSO 12" I bought recently from Andrews

[Nightshift]

Just thought I would, a) see if anyone else has this problem and b) let all prospective buyers be aware of a problem with Guan Sheng Dobs.
Now I realise that these dobs arent the Rolls Royce of OTA's but the optics are good and the price is high enough to expect better than I have.

The problem is rust, yes rust, I have used the scope twice now in high dew fields and the paint they coat the OTA with is absolute garbage, and very thin garbage at that. I have surface rust appearing all over the OTA even though I dried the scope after use, I don't know whether to complain to Andrews or not? (opinions sought here) or just grin and bear it, perhaps re-coat the whole tube (after strip down) with a clear laquer to try and maximize longevity. The thing is three months old (used in field maybe 5 times) and looks two years old. What do you think I should do?

[rochler]

Even my v. cheap no-name 6" newt has a decent coat of paint & no rust. Must be a production problem with the tubes maybe? Unfortunately these things can happen with anything you buy, not just scopes but basically anything that's mass produced. Sometimes you are just unlucky.

But I would certainly take the matter up with the retailer, since they might be able to confirm with manufacturer whether or not there is a problem/recall whatever. It doesn't hurt to inquire, since this is not a normal situation. Any buyer would have a reasonable expectation that the OTA won't start rusting out within a couple of months of normal use, so you might get it swapped over?

Let us know how you go...:confuse2:

[johnno]

Yes,
I think I would contact Lee,and see what he has to say,
The alternative,is to strip it down,as you say,
BUT,that is quite a lot of work to do it properly,and shouldn't really be necessary in this short space of time.

Hope you get it sorted.
Merry Xmas.
John

[iceman]

Unfortunately it's common with the GS OTA's. I created a thread about it a few weeks ago:

Rust Spots on OTA (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5687)

It's a GS problem, not an Andrews problem, or a Bintel problem, or whereever you got your scope from.

In the thread I linked, there's some suggestions about what you can do about it. But short of stripping it back and re-painting it completely, it's something you're going to have to live with I'm afraid.
I've learnt to live with the surface rust spots on mine.. it doesn't stop my wife from nagging me about it occassionally, but I know it's just cosmetic and it's not hurting the performance of the scope at all.

Maybe you should edit your thread title to remove Andrews from the title, because as I said it's not a retailer problem.

[mick pinner]

lt is a retailer problem because they sell the item and therefore are responsible for any warranty claims especially seeing that GS are based overseas. Why should he " just live with it ", by letting someone get away with selling an inferior product you only promote the problem, they need to know there is a fault so it can be fixed. Let Andrews know straight away and tell them you want a new one, rust after 3 months is ridiculous, don't pander to retailers, you have rights so exercise them.

[iceman]

Yep, good point. I guess it's another factor to consider when we recommend to people to buy these GSO dobs.

[bytor666]

I have had my GS 12" Dob for a year now and there are NO SIGNS of rust spots anywhere!!!...I would get YOUR store where you purchased it, to replace the tube , or the entire OTA with optics , etc if i were you !!!

Go for it !!! :cool:

[Argonavis]

I thought the retailer had some input into the specification of these scopes (if only to put their name on them)? The only way the problem will be solved is to bring it to the attention of the retailer, who should then demand a higher quality from their supplier.

Do these scopes come with a warranty?

[matt]

Here here Mick!

If we're happy to toss bouquets the way of a trader for product and service, we also have to be prepared to accept brickbats!

It's called informing the community. If you sell something that's got an inherent problem ... do something or face the chat that will ultimately arise.

We need to be careful that we don't protect retailers from negative comment or folk will naturally question agendas or motivations.

I also thought freedom of speech, especially when it's in the public interest, was an important cornerstone of our community?

[matt]

If it's a well-priced newt around the f5 mark (8 or 10")... you wouldn't get that problem with a SkyWatcher:)

[iceman]

Let's not over-react, Matt.

Noone is protecting anyone.

For me, I expected my tube to get surface rust on it. After all, it got wet from dew, I didn't dry or clean it, and I leave it outside 24/7. It's not like we're talking a hole in the tube. On mine, it's a few spots of brown on the tube.

I'm not downplaying it though, for others it's a bigger deal than it is to me.

All i'm trying to say, is that it's dangerous to say "don't buy the scope from Andrews because it rusts". That could get you in trouble. Bintel sell the same scopes and they will have the same problem.

Of course people have every right to ask the retailer take it back or demand a new tube. Let us know how you go. I just don't know if that sort of thing would be covered under warranty or if it's considered regular wear and tear?

Knowledge is power. As I said, it's another pro/con to consider when weighing up GSO dobs versus other dobs versus other types of scopes.


Possibly, i'm not sure. As far as I know, the retailers that sell the GSO's sell them exactly the same to everyone, and they put their own stickers on them and bundle in different eyepieces. Demanding a higher quality from the supplier is certainly a valid point, however the market has also demanded lower prices, so it's a trade off. Higher quality paint finish will probably mean higher prices.

[matt]

Mike

I'm not over-reacting.

I was simply agreeing with Mick and airing my opinion (generally) that "we" (being a website in general, and not necessarily you) need to be careful we don't leave ourselves open to accusations of commercial bias.

Sorry you took that as a personal slight. I thought it was fair comment in light of the recent event with S&S... which unfortunately drew negative comment, again about asking someone to modify a thread so as not to upset a commercial entity.

[Robby]

Sounds like you got a dud Nightshift... Only use 5x and rust already! That seems a pretty bad. I'd hate to think what your tube will look like if you leave it outside 24/7 for a year like Mike has done! Seems reasonable to me to expect a replacement.
Cheers

[iceman]

Sorry, thought your comment was directed at my comment.


That's true.


That issue was not about whether it was/they were a commercial entity or not. Anyway let's not get into that again.

[bytor666]

Skywatcher?....those things are much more inferior to the Guan Sheng dobs prodiuced in Taiwan. The Skywatcher dobs are Chinese made optics and aren't quite as good as the the GS dobs.
It seems like a little bit of a paint problem, thats all...if that were me, (now that I think of it),...i would just paint it myself !!!

[matt]

No worries Mike

Nothing like a lively bit of chat at this hour!!!!:lol:

[matt]

"much more inferior" ... or "not quite as good" ...

which one?:lol: :lol: :lol:

I certainly don't think their tubes suffer from rust?

And I would question those claims about optical quality. Anyway, each to their own.

[astronut]

Rust in any of its forms is not standard equipment when you buy a new "anything" telescopes included.
Take it back to the retailer!!
Having said that, I have had many dealings with Lee Andrews and so have the members of my club, and we have found him always helpful and able to fix any problems immediately, so contact him don't stew on the problem. Cheers, John.:)

[acropolite]

I note that you list your location as "Sunshine Coast". My kids bikes were fine until we took them to the coast for the holiday break. Within days of returning there were rust spots everywhere. If you are within a few Kms of the salt water this would explain the more rapid than usual rusting. If you're really concerned I sould suggest dismantling, removing the rust completely and repainting with several coats of good quality paint, preferably something with rust inhibitors.

[xrekcor]

Forget your GSO's and Skywatchers, I say you'll be better off with a Saxon!
the rust looks slightly more classy on black :P

I've had my trusty 8" saxon for 2 yrs... it's been rusting away for about the
last 18 months, it spends allot of time in the yard covered. It hasn't effected
it's performance and like Mike I have learned to live with it. It probably started
when the steal was still sitting in the yard waiting to be turned into an OTA
tube at the factory. And they probably painted straight over it.

You could seek a replacement, which will porbably go the same way.

However if someone has come across a supplier or manufacturer who makes
tubing to the sizes we need and in Aluminium or similar I would be keen to hear.
I'm not interested in sono-tubing

regards,CS

[davidpretorius]

Nightshift,

Mine is 6 months old, has been left outside all night on say 60 occassions and has been used with dew streaming down it over at least 12 times.

No signs of rust. For the amount you have used it, talk to Lee and bring it to his attention straight away. If you were using it flat out like Mike and myself and after 12 months, you got the problems, then i would say fair wear and tear, but not 3 months and small usage.

Don't go in boots and all with lee, just state the facts and ask him directly but nicely "what can he do about it".

Don't accuse him or threaten him with any consumer stuff. I hope it can be sorted out with the first phone call. If however you don't succeed from being nice but firm, then that is what consumer rights and mediation courts are for.

Hopefully it does not come to that.

Good luck mate.

have a great xmas

[xrekcor]

That's a very good point!

regards,CS

[Exfso]

Hands up all those that would accept their car getting rust spots within the first couple of years, let alone the first couple of months. Not this little black duck. GS just have to lift their game, from the dobs I have seen they must make their ota's out of used coke cans, the metal is that thin, and any surface rust that may appear will surely go right through in very quick time. Tis no good having a car with a F1 engine that goes like the clappers, if the rest of it rots away. Just my .02c worth

[rmcpb]

I would just give Andrews a ring and discuss the problem instead of getting all tied up in knots first. My dealings with Lee have all been good and fair so there is a good chance that he will come to the party, after all the amount of use for the rust is a bit of a worry. Mine is getting a few rust marks on it now but, boy, its had some real weather on it for a fairly long period now. I an starting to think a nice gold coloured tube on a mango colured mount will look great :)

[xrekcor]

I think that is a lil unfair for a comparison, to have a car properly
repainted can cost you several thousand $$$ and comes in up to 40
layers where as OTA get the wif of the spray gun as it comes past.
To paint an OTA similar to a car would probably put $200.00 on the price.

Dont think car manufacturers are any different. A mate of mine an auto-
transmisson mechanic told me a few years back he was working on one
of the latest Audi at the time. The owner had also requested someone look
at a problem he was having with a door, When my mate pulled the door
cover off and there for all to view was a Europa label. His $70,000.00 car
was made from old oil 44's.

regards,CS

[iceman]

So many people with the same dobs, some people with rust and some without.

Rob probably summed up why:


So luck of the draw with how long your tube was sitting outside before GSO painted it, combined with where you live (salt water spray), probably means you'll get rust.

[Exfso]

I was only using the car as an example. Nothing to do with costs, just the principle of the thing. To me it is just a result of keeping costs down, and subsequently the paint finish is kept to an ABSOLUTE minimum, quite possibly they only give the metal one finishing coat and no primer, and that is wafer thin, also possibly painted on to metal that is not properly prepared. It all depends what one is prepared to put up with. I know that as I get older, I refuse to put up with inferior stuff and will always return same to the manufacturer/reseller for replacement/repair. As an example, I recently purchased a new plasma TV, it was replaced twice before I decided enough was enough, in the end I got another brand because the original was garbage, ( it was an expensive 1024x1024 102cm unit, supposedly one of the best brands ).
If a product is inferior, it is in your own and every future purchasers best interest to make it known to the manufacturer so that they can, if they want to stay in business, correct the problems. If they are not made aware that there are problems, how can they fix them. It is all about feedback, and the same goes for positive feedback, credit should be given where it is due also.

[ving]

gee whiz!

ok, IMHO people shouldnt start bagging out astro stores unless they have at least tried contacting them. this is the second time i have seen andrews bagged out when the bagger hasnt even bothered contacting lee first. If lee wont do anything about it and it is clearly his fault (ie you house your metal tubed OTA indoors and try to keep the corosion inducing salty dew off it) then by all means bag him out.

you have a cheap steel tubed OTA and you live by the sea and the scope gets left outside..... 1+1= rust.
:rolleyes:

[ving]

my astra comes with a 10 year rust-free warranty, hyundais do not.
then you get what you pay for. $1k is cheap for a 12" OTA, if i payed $10k and it rusted i'd be worried :P

[Striker]

I suppose it's all about perspective.

They are a very well priced Dob.

Either way I wouldn't be happy if my OTA started to rust out of the box no mater how much I payed.

[xrekcor]

I guess your right, I just think complaining about a lil rust, is a bit like
complaining to GSO that their mirrors aren't hand figured too. You get what
you pay for. Lets face it some of us cant spend the thousands to get
the top of the line stuff, where things like rust aren't an issue. So be thankful
there are companies like the GSO's SkyWatcher, Saxon's....etc...etc...
willing to bang out gear at a reasonable cost so we all can enjoy the
heavens above.

However, I personally do think it's a lil unlucky to have it rusting so
soon. Mine pretty much did the same. At least it looks like a slow process
on mine anyways.

Edit Besides a telescope isn't for looking at, it's for looking through ;)

regards,CS

[norm]

Ok, here's my 2 bobs worth!

1. Go back to the dealer and see what he can/is willing to do about it. If it seems a lost cause, maybe suggest he contact Guang Sheng and at least mention to them next time about quality control in reference to the paint coatings etc.
2. Guang Sheng have their own website http://www.gs-telescope.com/
Maybe even drop an email to them - sure they may not even respond, but then again they may.

If I were the manufacturer or even Dealer and knowing the power of the internet and these forums, I would do my best to come to the party in resolving the issue. Lets face it, if its costs approx $800 to buy, think how little the cost it would be to make, probably no more than $100.
If word gets around that they make decent optics, but average chassis/finishes some may start to think twice abt grabbing one.
Unfortunately as mentioned 99% of the dobs come from the same manufacturer - hmmm maybe that defeats my argument.:confuse3:

Failing all that as Mike said, either live with the rust or try removing it and then putting another coat of paint on it. Better still what about using some sticky contact paper with a nice floral pattern.:lol: Sorry I shouldn't make light of an annoying problem, especially when you've parted with some good bucks.

It definitely sounds like the salt air has something to do with it and/or unfortunately you happen to just get a bad batch on the production line.

Good luck with the outcome. Will be interesting to know what happens.

Norm.

[SCO]

I know of half a dozen purchased & in use in Tasmania and to date I have not heard any complaints re-this problem.

It is not a retailler problem but one of the manufacturer of the scopes in question. I would suggest contacting the retailler who supplied the scope and give them the opportunity to investigate the problem with his supplier - and do this before 'bagging' a retailler in a public forum, which is really bad manners! Give them a chance to sort the problem please. Tis the season of goodwill to all men - and telescope suppliers.

Seasons Greetings to All from the
Southern Cross Observatory - Tasmania

[ving]

:hi: SCO :)
welcome aboard :)

[janoskiss]

Dave made an excellent point. If someone has a problem with something they bought from a registered dealer (or privately even), it's probably a good idea to talk to the seller first before posting about it here. After all, they are the one most likely to be able to help.

The thread title did ring alarm bells for me. But like Mike pointed out, this is a problem with these Dobs in general, so singling out one dealer is not fair.

I had my 8" GS Dob for nearly a year now and there's been rust on the OTA for at least 4-5 months now. It is not something I have given much thought though. If it bothered me I would just treat the rust with something, and rub something hydrophobic on the OTA (respray is too much work). Sending it back would be too much hassle.

[g__day]

Check your warranty, check with a consumer watch dog what fit for use means in this context, contact Andrews see what they will do.

Now if you get no joy from a retailer and Trade Practices demands "fit for use" under sections 52 and 54, you might be able to claim relief under these protection. Even more so if you purchased the scope using a credit card; then you have 90 - 120 days to repudiate a payment for any of the following reasons - you didn't order these goods, the goods weren't delivered, the goods were not of the kind or quality specificed, the goods are not fit for sale under Australian law. Then its between your credit card provider and the merchant to sort things out.

That is a final and strong protect all users of the Australian payments system should be aware of. Even if the scope says "not for outdoor use" section 52 can unwind unreasonable caveats to a suppliers warranty.

Good luck, let us know how the merchant addresses your concern.

[[1ponders]]

I don't know if Nightshift will see this for a week or two as he is out in the boondocks, maybe with0ut internet connection. So I'll just clarify a something here on his behalf.

Sunshine Coast - salt spray. Not really an issue unless its blowing about 200 km/hr. We live about 10-15 km in a straight line from the coast. (I live just around the corner from NS) His Dob is never left outside but takes pride of place in his lounge room, so general exposure is not an issue.

I"ve not seen his dob for a few weeks now in daylight, but I do know that there was surface rust where it had been resting against the packing material when he removed it from the carton.

Just background info

[ving]

ahh i see :)
nothing quite like a scope that takes pride of place in the lounge :) wish mine could but the cats would get to it.

He really needs to contact andrews next tho :)

[[1ponders]]

M T 2

[ving]

:confused:

[[1ponders]]

My thoughts too

[davidpretorius]

true, Sco and welcome!

but we do live in god's little private garden down here!

[rumples riot]

My thoughts too Ving

[davidpretorius]

my thoughts three ving!

[TidaLpHasE]

Well, i would have done exactly as you have done, that is come to a forum and ask for peoples opinion.

I am not to sure who was bagging out a supplier without contacting them first, i read in your post that you were seeking advice and asking for peoples opinion, nothing to do with bagging a supplier!

I would ring them and explain your concern, and state that you are not happy with the product rusting so soon after purchasing it.

You will be offered a refund more than likely, or if he is willing to exchange it, that's good.

And i also think that $1000+ for an item is a hell of a lot of money, just because it's a "Made in China" scope, shouldn't mean the item be expected as inferier, if this should be expected from these scopes, then they are way over priced and should sell for their"cheaper quality Bang for Buck" value of say, $450.

And as far as people posting on forums regarding quality and the standard of products supplied to them by Australian suppliers, i support this 100%,

Good luck with your scope.

[johnno]

Hi All,

There is a product that is called "rust converter",I know it works,as I have used it on a rusty fridge,there are also rust resistant paints,But I would prepare the metal tube properly first.
However,as has been said,repainting is quite a job,but to stop any further rust action,the rust converter may be worth a thought.

An Interesting fact,
40 years ago I worked for a new Car dealership as a trainee spray painter,the current model at the time often arrived straight from the factory,with rust spots in the sills,doors,and many other body panels,and it was our job to repair,and repaint the offending sections.
To be fair and honest,NOT ALL,new cars had this problem,but there was enough to keep us busy.

Seasons Greetings.
John

[Nightshift]

exactly, I wasnt bagging Lee at all, he didnt manufacture it (although some responsability is expected as the importer), I was asking peoples opinion and I have to say I have never had such a good and immediate response to any thread than this one. Excelent comments from everyone, I think I will contact Lee in the new year and ask his opinion, I can live with the rust that it has but I expect it will get a lot worse real quick. And yes, I am about 20Klms from the ocean in the hinterland, besides, my car doesnt rust, nor my tin roof nor shed etc, why should I expect this to rust? Yes I could strip and paint it but should I have to? I think not, trouble is I was charged $70 to freight it here, who pays freight for the replacement (each way) if thats the way Lee decides to go?? Maybe I could spend $200 more getting it recoated and Lee could compensate me with a nice filter or something worth this amount? Why let the freight companies make money out of a bad situation? Anyway, when I return form NSW I will call him and have a nice chat, I am not angry just dissapointed, I still love the scope. see you next year, stay safe.

[Muddy Diver]

Hi all

For what its worth I dont see much bagging going on. Good scope or not, it is more likely storage of the sheet metal prior to painting which has led to the rusting at such an early stage. Probably you should consider treating the tube after removing the paint to inhibit the oxidation prior to recoating if you dont want the same thing to happen again. Also, if metal storage was the problem then the same type of oxidation could be ocurring on the inside which is obviously a different problem.

We don't, as consumers, enjoy the same prices as dealers get from manufacturers and therefore should expect the dealer to respond to our calls of help when a product dissapoints us. By not informing the dealer and just getting on with it quietly, the dealer is left unawares of any quality issues and will keep on selling an inferior product (if thats what it is). The more people who give feedback regarding a product, the more or less likely the dealer is going to be promoting same.

I beleive dealers should take full responsibility for returns like these cos then they would take inferior goods off their shelves in favour of higher quality goods. Good for him and great for the consumer eh?

Good luck with your chosen course of action, but I would definately talk to Andrews... they might give you a nice surprise!

[Mick]

:rofl: maybe they are up to the same trick.

My dob has rust as well, it's not bad I jumped on it early. I contacted the supplier about it a while ago by email, they did replied but I knew there was probably not a lot they could do. The rust doesn't spoil the view through the EP and that's what I'm interested in, the view.

Cars and Telescopes, they're always fixing it in the next model :rofl: :)

[ballaratdragons]

All brand new Ural (Dneper) Motorcycles imported into Australia have extreme rust! And with the paint peeling off in large slabs! It is expected of this make and therefore, Ural buyers accept it. But that is only half the story.

Every Ural also comes with a complete engine rebuild kit (Pistons, rings, gudgeons & clips, bearings, valves, valve springs & guides, Oil pump kit, carby kit etc etc) as the Factory and Dealers say "You'll need it".

Ural buyers (and there are a lot of them) still buy Urals. But they are told that this is the quality of the product. They actually practically run forever, coz mechanically they are bullet proof!

BUT . . . when we are buying a product that is expected to be of Quality (not just optically) we do expect it to keep it's appearance for a bit longer than a few months!

I don't have any rust problems with my GS12" but there have been a few in here having rust in their OTA's in quite a short time! If a new car does it we let the Car dealer now. Why not let the Scope dealers now that the GS brands are rusting. If everyone with a rusty GS told the dealers, then GS might jump on the problem.

I now, I'm waffling again. I'll shut up now :ashamed:

[Roger Davis]

So much fun to read what you are all saying! Geez what do you expect, you ain't buying a Rolls Royce you're buying a Hyundi! If a scope develops rust don't be suprised. How much did you spend? How much have you really looked after that tube? Huh? Sure you WIPED it down with a cloth to dry it off, but this isn't really adequate. When you buy a car, you wash it, dry it and wax it. You know wax on wax off? In the "olden days" when I was a lad and made my first scope, the tube was made from galvanised steel (see? galvanised? see? steel?) which I duly painted white and watched the paint peel off after 18 months. But the tube never rusted & still hasn't.
If someone came to me with a problem of rust, I would take their tube, strip it bare, etch the surface and have it powder coated. The interior I would then blacken with Krylon (the only dead or matt black spray, there is NO other, although you could use flocking [read self adhesive felt]). Powder coating around $80-$90 and the can of Krylon around $20. Then I would say the tube stood a good chance of resisting rust for a little while at least. Moisture is corrosive, don't be complacent regarding its nature, dry your scope thoroughly and occasionaly treat it to a coat of car wax.
A tube is there to keep your optics apart!!!

[mick pinner]

if you read an ad for a telescope that said " tube may or may not be rusty ", would you buy it? why should someone put up with this rust 3 months after purchase?
to say you only paid so much for a scope is relative, $900.00 to you or me may not be a lot but to someone who has saved for their first scope it matters.
l agree you get what you pay for but rust is a condition that WILL get progressively worse and to most people will be an expensive problem to fix properly.
What other defects do you think are acceptable in a " cheap scope "?

[janoskiss]

Actually there was someone on iceinspace recently who mentioned receiving a brand new Dob with rust spots on the OTA. I think the cheap way around this is for the manufacturer to supply a rust free new poduct to begin with, and instructions on how to look after the telescope, and how to keep it rust free. If that is not possible they should really do something about the problem. I never heard of anyone complaining of rust on the Orion XT Dobs, which apart from the paintjob are pretty much the same scope.

See some excerpts below from from the XT8 manual. It does not sound like rust is part of the deal here. If you see rust on a new or virtually new telescope tube that "will last a lifetime", you would have reason to complain.

[Striker]

Thats this Dob Steve....the one we have been talking about...straight out of the box.

[janoskiss]

No, Tony, this one had rust appearing after several nights of dew. The one I was referring to is vindictive666's Dob.

[[1ponders]]

Steve, this one had rust straight out of the box as well.

[Stu]

If that's the case it should have been taken back already.

Tin sheds are zinc coated to prevent rust. Cars are negatively grounded to stop the reaction from happening. Both will be better protected than this scope near the sea. I'd get a new one and strip it back and repaint striaght away before it gets bad again.

[Starkler]

I think with the lessons learned here we should recommend that everyone who buys one of these gets out the Mr Sheen or car wax and give their ota a good treatment before exposing it to the night sky for the first time.

My dob started to show a few spots of rust discolouration in the paint after about three months. Two years later theres just a few more, but it is just tiny surface rust spots only and I dont see any need to panic.

Keeping things in perspective I really think the particle board base will crap out well before I get a rust hole through my ota. By this time, maybe the mirror will need recoating also ?

[Argonavis]

making sure you remove the optical elements from the tube first before applying Mr Sheen.....I am not sure what MrSheen does to mirror coatings, but have heard very bad things about Fishlex. The story is told of a scope owner who complained that his mirror had black spots all over it - it turned out that he was so concerned about a few rust spots on the mirror cell that they applied fishlex. ouch.

[mick pinner]

Mr Sheen or any type of sealer or wax will not stop the tube from rusting, it is not the moisture on the outside that causes the rust it is the lack of a proper etch primer between the steel and the final colour.

[fringe_dweller]

:thumbsup: yep - my 10" is powder coated steel tube (had another like that) - and most of my mates home maders were - awesome - got some surface rust with some tiny little scratches - but otherwise 11 or so years later nuthin' :) and believe me that has been to hell and back.

[johnno]

Hi All,
I think the thing to remember is,this problem is NOT going to cure it self,and its not going to go away.
Something has to be done reasonably quickly BEFORE the Scope self destructs.
I still believe a word to the supplier is worthwhile,after all,rightly,or wrongly,it IS their reputation that will suffer, sooner,or later, if they ignore the facts.
THERE IS A PROBLEM,

Surely, the supplier is aware, although he hasn't actually made the scope,and certainly hasn't caused the problem,as the seller,he is the one who is going to undure the negative advertising.
MY POINT IS THIS,
If you bought an acme brand tv set,that didn't work,would you contact Acme,in China, or would you go straight back to where you bought it from?
Regards.
John

[robinsm]

I have had my Andrews bought GS dob for 18 months. No rust, great views and good support from Lee (not that I have needed much) Ring the man, give him a chance to consider it and then see what he recommends. I have had no problems with either lee or the 12 inch GS.
Just my 2c worth
Maynard

[josh]

I had the same prob with my new dob. The retailer was very helpful and replaced it for me. Anything you buy new should be designed to operate perfectly {or near it} for quite a long time. Nothing should begin rusting on a scope for along time as they are used at night and spend most of that time covered in dew. You would assume that they would be designed with this in mind, but ive come across a few that didnt seem to be. Anyway, ice is right, it dosnt affect performance, but it still shouldnt happen