New telescope

[Colin_Fraser]

My wife and I have been fascinated with astronomy for decades.
We have decided to buy a good telescope. We had a cheapo years ago.
I have researched so much everything is fuzzy. All the different types, brands and jargon has got the better of me.
I don't want to buy one and say, gee I wish I bought something better.
My question is this. What would you purchase if your budget was $4000?

I appreciate any replies.
Thanks

[that_guy]

holy CRAP!!! with $4000 you could get a 16" light bridge with argo navis and some pretty cool accessories... $4000 can get you HEAPS!!! are you thinking of doing imaging? in which case $4000 is nothing (jk) although it is a real expensive hobby....

Cheers,
Tony

[casstony]

Hi Colin, the best thing you could do is go to a public observing night and ask to try out a variety of scopes.

Failing that you can Buy an 8" dobsonian (a competent instrument) from Bintel for $549, minimising your investment while you get some observing experience to figure out what you really prefer.

Welcome to IIS :)

[Suzy]

Crikey :eyepop: $4,000?! :bowdown:Oh, boy you're going to have a great new toy! :D

Oh nearly forgot (I was busy being blown away by your budget),
:welcome:Colin, very glad to have you on board. :)

[rcheshire]

:welcome: The best advice (post below) is to attend a club and have a look at what others are using, before you buy - it can be a minefield - one that I have recently traversed.

Astrophotography, can be quite addictive and very expensive compared to observing - with a similar budget, you will need to buy very carefully and make some compromises here and there. Inevitably, spending more at a later date. In anycase, adding 20-30% to your budget is not unrealistic - and possibly more.

4K in the hands of some telescope retailers, or over eager enthusiasts, can dissipate rapidly, and your expenditure will increase:D

[Blue Skies]

4K? How about I give you my current shopping list....

It usually helps to ask what are you most interested in doing up there, as this will or should narrow down the options. But there are plenty of other factors to consider such as your physical capabilities, where you intend to use it, where you are going to store it etc. as in its no good getting something too big you can't shift (especially if you're not sure what you want) or too heavy, as you'll probably find that you don't use it as much as you should.

Getting out to a public night is highly recommended. I see you are in Ballarat - aren't the Snake Valley mob near there? Perhaps some of the other Victorians can point you to some local people (better than me on the other side of the country!)

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks everyone for the replies.
Seems the common advice is to go to a public night and see whats available that might suit me.
Yes Jacquie, the Snake Valley people are not that far away. I'll get in contact with them.
I would like to be able to view our solar system planets. I understand with some telescopes you can see the rings of Saturn and even some distant galaxies. Is that true? Attaching a half decent camera is something I would like as well.
I have looked at some of the images on the forum, some are awesome, especially the deep space ones. If I can get images like some of those I'd be happy.
It seems Cassegrain type is pretty popular with Meade and Celestron the popular brands.
Although I currently live in Ballarat, we plan to move to Bright, Vic. The stars are so bright out that way, it should make viewing even more enjoyable.

[Rockah]

Colin, you'll easily be able to see the rings of saturn with almost any scope - and the first time you do it will leave a very big smile on your face :)


Depending on the size of your scope (apature-wise) and the darkness of your location, you can see some deep space objects (DSOs) such as galaxies and nebulas, but what you see in images isn't what you see through your telescope. They are more like faint light smudges, and unless you know what you are looking for, you can often miss them. If you're interested in astrophotography, thats a whole other thing, but maybe think about dividing your money up into a photography setup. There's a section on ISS for beginner info on this stuff.

Honestly, I think the best starting point is a dobsonian/netwonian scope. Dobsonians are just newtonians with a different style of mount - that being one that sits on the ground with an Alt/Az movement (up/down + left/right). A newtonian is the same type of scope, but without that mount - usually on a equitorial mount. I have an 8 inch newtonian which I got for 375 dollars, and the stuff you can see from that is brilliant and I don't live in the darkest of spots either. They do require a bit more maintenance, but nothing a complete novice like myself can't handle.

It's really, really important and good to do your research but at the same time it can be a bit overwhelleming with the amount of info out there and opinions.

As others have said, go to a get-together and check out other people's scopes and setups and see what suits you best.

In my opinion, don't spend all of your 4 gorillas at once, but rather start with something reasonable and go from there.

And finally, in my experience one of the most important things to start with is a good mount (EQ6) - I got a HEQ5 pro, and although it is a very nice mount, I wish I had the payload capabilities of the EQ6

[Allan_L]

Answer:
CPC 1100 GPS XLT
11" (280mm x 2800mm) Go-To
Brand New from Andrews for $4999.
The biggest SCT one person can easily carry and set up alone.
Sits nicely on the passenger seat.
Great Optics.

I love mine.

[higginsdj]

Colin, decide what it is you want to do. If you buy a Dob then astrophotography is out (for practical purposes). If you want to see distant galaxies and other DSO's with your own eyes then a large Dob is what you want. But then, where is it going to be stored? Where a you going to use it? Will it fit in the car? Are you strong enough to transport it? Will it take you 5 minutes or 50 minutes to setup and take down?

Cheers

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks but it over my budget.

[Colin_Fraser]

Overwhelming is an understatement.
I've called a few different suppliers and they all say something different. CGT is better, refractor is better. Cellestron is better than the rest, and so on. Big aperture is supposedly better but it's hard to imagine getting a better picture than the ones I've seen using an ED80.
I am now leaning towards a refractor type.
Seems a big difference in price from brand to brand. A Saxon ED80 for instance is around $1000 and a Skywatcher Black Diamond ED80 OTA is around $1800. Guess they are just better scopes.
So I suppose a good starting point would be the Skywatcher and a decent mount. I will probably attach a camera at a later date.
I'm going to the Snake Valley club tomorrow night. Hopefully the skies will be clear and I will be able to check out what others are using.

[erick]

Coming to Snake Valley Fri night, Colin? We'll show you some examples and talk it through - hands-on. Eric

Woops! Our emails crossed. Given the weather is sus and I cannot stay all night, I'll just bring a little refractor, rather than my 12" dob. But there is a 12" dob, some refractors, an 8" dob. a stuffed 8" SCT, various mounts - you'll be able to get a much better idea of what is possible.

[Colin_Fraser]

Yes, thats my dilemma. I want to look at distant galaxies but I want the option to do photography later.
Moving it around will not be a problem. When I build our new home in Porepunkah Vic, I'll build a ramp to wheel it outside.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks Eric. Looking forward to it.

[Rockah]

Hey Colin

I think you'll find most "ED80"s are the same, but some are better than others within their own respective brand. E.G skywatcher has two different types of ED80's one you can get for around 500-600 bucks or the black diamond ED80 for around 1000 bucks - but 1800 bucks for the BD ED80 is way too much mate, currently there are a few sites selling it for about 900 bucks.

If you're interested in imaging, the ED's are going to be really good scopes and for the money you can get a higher apature ED series refractor. Yes they get great pictures, but remember for plain old simple visual observation apature will be king - so a 10 inch dob/newt is going to give you a much more thrilling view through an eyepiece than an ED80 will.

Honestly, for 4k I'd get an EQ6 with an ED80 for about 2.5k and then spend about 350 on an 8inch newtonian and you've got a grand to spend on imaging. That would have been my wishlist if you gave me 4 big ones, but it's just preference.

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks for the advice Zal.
I was previously unaware I could get a decent setup for well under $4000.
If I shop around and choose wisely, I may end up with 2 new telescopes.

[floyd_2]

Hi Colin,
I'm lucky enough to own three scopes now. Each has a different purpose.

10" Meade LX200GPS SCT: Great for visual, but I use it almost solely for photography. A lot of people seem to grow out of SCT scopes when they move on to photography and head towards refractors on a GEM.

80mm Stellarvue Refractor: Can be used for visual but has limited deep sky use. Great for bright objects, but 80mm has limited resolving power. Used mostly as a guidescope on my LX200GPS, but also as an awesome grab and go. Lovely scope - but I think you would very quickly grow out of an 80mm as your primary scope. If you're observing in the suburbs and intend to use filters like UHC or OIII, an 80mm isn't really pulling in enough light and objects will appear very dull.

14" Truss Dobsonian with Navigation Comp (like an argo): Not for photography. Awesome for deep sky and bright objects alike. Excellent resolving power and about the biggest scope one person can handle with ease.

I guess at the end of the day you need to think about what you want to do in astronomy. If you're a deep sky enthusiast, you should probably consider the largest dob that you can afford and handle. Aperture is king. Certainly an Argo is a huge help for beginners and seasoned astronomers alike. You can spend more time observing, and less time reading charts and star hopping.

The other big consideration for me has always been portability. If it's difficult / heavy to move and set up, you'll probably think twice about observing each time.

It's a tough decision you have to make, and you have a great budget. I'm sure you'll have a great time with the guys and their scopes. I guess your other alternative is to buy a scope to suit your current needs, and then trade up as your needs change rather than trying to purchase a scope that can fit the bill for all purposes.

Don't forget to set aside some money for eyepieces and accessories like filters, collimation gear etc.

Dean

[Colin_Fraser]

Hello Dean,
3 scopes. Wow.
I just looked up myastroshop site and they have a Skywatcher 254mm Newtonian with an EQ6 mount. The images supposedly taken with this scope are amazing. $2500. Seems worth considering.

[Rockah]

Colin, you can get great images from a newtonian but remember you will also need something to guide the mount, i.e a guidescope or off-axis guider with an autoguider camera or illuminated eyepiece. I know that may be a bit confusing, but to put it simply, no matter how good your polar alignment is, your mount will have tracking errors - guiding a mount makes corrections when thing start to go off which allows you to do long exposure photography.

Don't let it put you off though - obviously people are using that scope to get some great images (http://skywatchertelescope.net/swtinc/product.php?id=60&class1=1&class2=104&action=gallery) - that's pretty much the setup you're looking at I think

[Colin_Fraser]

Yes that's the one. It is confusing. (lawn bowls is looking good)
Everything should be clearer after tomorrow night.

[Rockah]

Good luck buddy - I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for tomorrow!

[Colin_Fraser]

Went to Snake Valley last night. Met a great bunch of blokes. Mainly looked through Dobsonians. There were others there, like a ED80 refractor but they had trouble seeing things because the sky was a bit hazy.
I was amazed. Saw Saturn's rings for the first time, star clusters and a heap of other wonders.
So, I've narrowed my choice down.
I like the Dobsonians but Helen, my wife, would not be able to handle one so that leaves something like a Celestron C10-NGT (Newtonian) or a Celestron CPC 925 XLT. (Cassegrain).

[DavidTrap]

Glad to hear you took the advice. I started with a similar budget and bought a fabulous LX-90. Unfortunately, I've moved on to astro-imaging rather quickly. Just remember that your fork mounted SCT won't really cut it for imaging and will not have a great resale value (I know my LX-90 certainly won't).

DT

[Colin_Fraser]

After more research, the cassegrain is out.
And I just noticed Skywatcher have a computerized goto system for a 300mm Dobsonian. That would be good for my wife.

[ballaratdragons]

It was good meeting you Colin, and glad you were able to come out and investigate some different styles of scopes.
Yeah, it ain't easy at first. I just hope we didn't confuse you further :P

Remember, call me any time and come on out again as often as you want and look through them all again :thumbsup:

[casstony]

Colin, without knowing how you intend to store or use the scope, here are some points you might consider:

the 10" solid tube dob is easily wheeled around on a trolley fully assembled, is slim enough to be wheeled through doorways, short enough to fit across the back seat of some cars, short enough to allow fully seated observing and the optical tube is fairly easy to lift and carry.

A 12" may be less convenient depending on how you're going to store/move/use the scope. I'm not trying to put you off the 12", it'll be brighter, but is it sufficiently convenient for you to use?

[ballaratdragons]

I get the feeling (from what I read here) that Colin means his wife won't be able to find objects with a Dob. Sounds like Colin is after something with 'GoTo' or Argo Navis etc.

Correct me if I am wrong Colin :thumbsup:

[Colin_Fraser]

Hello Tony, I'm not sure either. Helen would rather have a scope with tracking.
She has a bad neck and cannot move it too much so anything that makes it easier and more comfortable for her, all the better.
Moving it around will not be a problem. If it becomes a problem later, I'll put it on rails or something. Might even build an observatory when we build our new house next year.

[Colin_Fraser]

Yes it was a great night Ken.
I would not mind having another look and perhaps have a gaze through the ED80 or an SCT.
I'll get myself one of those red lights. Then I'll look like a cyclops as well :)

[Bassnut]

Colin, IMO with $4k you need to decide Visual or Photography, both will be a compromise. Its a good budget for either, but not both.

[Colin_Fraser]

Hello Fred,
After talking to Ken last Friday, he explained the process of going down the photography path. I'm not ready for that just yet.
After looking through the scopes, I'd rather just do visual for now.

[casstony]

If tracking is mandatory and with a bad neck/comfortable observing to consider, a GoTo schmidt cassegrain (eg. Meade LX90 or Celestron Nexstar SE) might suit best. You can do all seated observing and turn the diagonal such that the eyepiece is horizontal, allowing the observer to keep their back and neck vertical. This is part of the reason for my preference for SCT's (schmidt cassegrain telescopes) since I have a crook upper back and can't lean forward for long.

[erick]

If we can set an evening and I'm available, I'll bring my Celestron C8 so you can get the feel for an SCT. Mine's very old - no goto nor the much enhanced optics that the new ones have. But size and handling is much the same.

[DavidTrap]

I second this comment.

My LX-90 tracks beautifully in Alt-Az mode. Setup takes <10mins. Plonk tripod down - take time to ensure the it is LEVEL. Screw down OTA/Forks onto tripod. Point scope North and make sure OTA is level. Turn on Autostar. It will slew to two alignment stars and Bob's your Uncle!

The observing position with an SCT in Alt-Az mode is quite kind to your back. They are definitely not "back friendly" when equatorially mounted on a wedge! I have seen a few people doing video astronomy through an Alt-Az mounted SCT with spectacular results - something to consider if want to dabble into Astrophotography.

DT

Cheers
DT

[Colin_Fraser]

I did not know you could turn it around. If that's the case, it maybe easier than leaning over towards a larger Dobsonian mounted scope.
Its a big investment, I want to get it right first time.
Thanks for pointing it out Tony.

[Colin_Fraser]

No worries Eric, that would be great.
If you could let me know when you are going, I'll make myself available.

[Colin_Fraser]

Hello David,
I just had a look at the LX90. Looks okay. Noticed they have two types, LX90-SC and LX90-ACF. Can you get good visuals of galaxies and nebula with yours?
How would it compare with a reflector type of the same size?
Do you think the LX90-ACF 12" would be a good item? It certainly reads well and the size would make transporting it a bit easier.

[Bassnut]

Interesting dilema, for someone willing to spend proper money for a good result.

Apature counts for visual, period, so I wouldve thought a monster dob would be the go, but then (like me) if you dont know where stuff is up there, it can be a PITA finding stuff to look at, so goto is attractive, so the LX90 range with an ordinary mount and good optics (for the money) is pretty good. But dont count on a 12" f10 (3m FL!) on an LX90 mount for photography though, thats a marginal world of pain, doable but very difficult.

For visual only, what about a big dob with Argo navis for push-to conveinience?. Then again an LX90 is a smaller, smick out-of-the-box, all in one set to go experience.

[DavidTrap]

Hi Colin,

I've sent you a PM

DT

[Colin_Fraser]

Actually it was Helen, my wife that suggested we get one. She is also fascinated by the heavens, so I really must consider her needs first when purchasing.
In February 2008 she said "Why don't you buy a motorcycle". So not one to argue with the good wife I went to Melbourne 3 days later by train and rode my new Harley home. :)
At the moment it's just too difficult to decide.

[Colin_Fraser]

Hello David,
I thought I replied to the message but I just checked my 'Sent Mail' box and its empty. Sorry.
I really appreciate the advice. I've narrowed it down to a Meade LX90-ACF 8" or Celestron CPC925 XLT.
Both seem pretty good and we will not be disappointed with either.

[DavidTrap]

I did receive a reply Colin - you have to tick a box asking it to save your sent message.

All the best,

DT

[DavidTrap]

Have sent you another PM in reply.

DT

[ballaratdragons]

Colin, have you looked through either one yet?

The old saying, 'try before you buy' is worth keeping in mind :thumbsup:

I would hate to spend a few grand and not be happy with the views/set-up/operation/ease of my gear.

[Colin_Fraser]

Hello Ken,
No I haven't.
Eric said he may bring an 8" SCT to the next meeting and hopefully I might get a chance to look at other scopes then.
We are going to Melbourne soon and hope to look at what Bintel have to offer.
Pointless looking through one but at least we can test the 'ease of use' factor.

[Crusader]

You could consider the Celestron 8SE as well. I have one and it works beautifully. It's light, easy to set up and align (no north pointing and levelling not critical). For visual it's a joy to use and if you go for photography you can easily move the OTA onto a quality EQ mount.

[Colin_Fraser]

Yes Crusader, I did have a look at those. Pretty good but I thought I would go a bit bigger.
I am torn between the CPC925 XLT and the not yet arrived Skywatcher 14" Flextube full goto Synscan Dobsonian.
I was told they would be available late August so I'll wait till then.

[ballaratdragons]

Sounds good Colin. 14" will suck in the Galaxies, especially out here in the dark and when you move to the north-east :thumbsup:

[Colin_Fraser]

Looks like a long wait for the 14" Skywatcher. Now talk of Christmas. Grrr.
Could not hang on any longer so I bought a 10" Skywatcher solid tube dob to get me going until the new one arrives.
It's fantastic. Those clouds look so beautiful.

[Allan_L]

I think Orion have a very nice 14 inch computerised collapsible DOB too.
and if so, I would rate Orion higher than SW anyway.

Worth a look

http://www.astro-optical.com.au/viewscope.php?scopeid=190&minnum=10&maxnum=15&priceband=all&sort=name&x=44&y=26

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks Allan, I'll check them out.

[ballaratdragons]

:lol:

Hope you are going to bring it out (after I patch up the flood-damaged entry road) ;)

[Colin_Fraser]

You bet. Hopefully it will not be too far away.