26 years of progress

[strongmanmike]

Thought this was an interesting comparison

Two images of M104 with cutting edge amateur imaging techniques and equipment taken 26 years apart by the same bloke :P

...it's been a fun and rewarding journey :thumbsup:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/125757864/original

And quite increrdibly, these are photos of the very nights each image was captured, all of 26 years apart!

http://upload.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/125758775/original

Mike

[alan meehan]

Amazing Mike makes you wonder what this shot would be 26yrs from today
AL

[MrB]

Wow HP5.
I still have a bulk-roll of that in the fridge!

[RobF]

Nice Mike.
Serves as a reminder for anyone we thinks AP will be an easy 12 month learning experience. Also shows what an exciting time to be in the hobby I guess. :)

[dcalleja]

Mike
A remarkable difference. I remember looking at Celestron ads in the 80s and dreaming of gas-hypered film rigs. The level of progress and kit you can buy now is just astounding. Great M104 too!

[strongmanmike]

Even more incredible is that I have photos of the two nights - I have aged a bit :P

http://upload.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/125758775/original

Mike

[allan gould]

Cripes, Mike - the scope's lost weight and you've put it on.
Great photos for a whole lot of diffeent reasons.

[dcalleja]

If asked to play "spot the difference" I would have to say there's more cables and facial hair in the later shot.

[strongmanmike]

Cool uh guys? :P

I would have to say that one thing hasn't changed

...back then Attila and I would pack the car with the C5 scope, Oddie mounting bracket, cold camera, vacuum pump, air tubes, cables, focusing eyepieces, esky of dry ice, trays etc etc and travel up to Mt Stromlo. ONCE THERE :mad2: we had to park some 300m from the Oddie dome, so we were forced to carry ALL that stuff UP HILL to the dome, and in sub zero conditions attach it all, stuff around with pumps, dry ice, creating vacuums etc etc (sounds like using an SBIG today :lol:) and then pull it all off and carry it back down the road to drive home in the morning!!!!!! :scared:

So you see as far as effort, dedication and general logistics go...little has changed :sadeyes:

[strongmanmike]

Actually, as I have just posted in a reply, there aint much difference as far as cables and attachment odds and bobs go. The cold camera was a fiddly messy device with air tubes a compressor and dry ice all having to reach up to 3m off the ground :eyepop:...but we knew nothing else :shrug: :lol:

Mike

[dcalleja]

Well I got the facial hair bit right? ;)

[spearo]

hahahaha
cool comparisons! I reckon you could make a brilliant poster of the 4 images

Not sure I fiddle this hard with the SBIG personally...;)...(not biting , just nudging the bait while looking at it with a suspicious look in my eye:rofl:)
frank

[Lester]

Thanks for the comparison Mike, brings back memories.

[dugnsuz]

Cracking comparison Mike - it really is amazing how far we've come in a relatively short time.

My interests in Astronomy/Astrophotography were started in the early 90's by images from the likes of Jack Newton, Tony Hallas et al - all using gear which was so out of the realm of the amateur at that time it wasn't funny.

Back then unless you were part of a club/society it seemed that imaging was the inaccessible high end of the hobby and also a bloody PITA in terms of guiding and the nail-biting wait for the film to come back from the chemist!!! LOL:lol:

Autoguiding and cheap (but decent) Chinese optics have changed all that for many of us - viva la change!

Onya Mike!
Doug:thumbsup:

[gregbradley]

That is a cool comparison Mike. Looks like you had massive fun there back in '84. Keeps you going stuff like that.

Greg.

[RobF]

How the heck were you able to get access to Mt Stromlo anyway??

[strongmanmike]

The Oddie refractor was the outreach type of scope. Stromlo allowed access to the Canberra Astronomical Society (CAS), local secondary (Yr11 & 12 only) colleges and some other community groups by appointment.

Canberra had the best secondary education system in the country back then and I went to Dickson College and I was also a member of the CAS. There is a training accreditation system now but back then all you needed was the key!

Attila and I lived and breathed everything astronomical for a few years and all nighters in sub zero temps up at the Oddie are now cherrished memories :)...of course the fires in 2003 destroyed the Oddie but I beleive it is being restored..?

[strongmanmike]

Oooh yes, Attila and I were like brothers for about 4 years and just lived for astronomy and particularly astrophotography :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Doug, I thought it would be of interest to a few and a bit of nostalgia is always cool and good for a laugh :P

The idea pre the 90's was that ATM'ing was much more of a necessity, there just wasn't the plethora of easily accessable kit and kaboodle that exists today, you just had to make it all :).

Hand guiding was excruciating at times but we knew nothing else so just lumped it. Scott Alder still hand guides but even he uses a TV screen to watch the star these days (ooooh how decadent).

Mike

[jjjnettie]

I can only imagine the time, the effort, the blood, sweat and tears involved in imaging with film. (I'm eternally grateful I started Astronomy in the digital age.)
I envy your memories Mike and thank you very much for sharing them with us.

[DavidTrap]

Great comparison Mike - I hope I share your passion after 25+ years.

I remember reading about hypered films in S&T when I was at high school. After reading your description of the chemistry set required for your imaging, I too am glad I entered astrophotography in the digital age. At least now we just have to plug everything in and hope the smoke doesn't leak out of the cables.

DT

[dugnsuz]

Yeah that jogged my memory - remember the Lumicon Hypering Kit ad that was in every issue of Astronomy and S&T?
Doug

[kinetic]

Hi Mike,

milk crates are hardly cutting edge technology mate :)
What a great comparison and nostalgic trip back.:thumbsup:
Wow, what a buzz it must have been to have access to the Oddie.
I also mucked around with film and processed my own Ilford
stuff in a rough darkroom , setup in the folks caravan :)
Some nights I'd process stuff the same night as capture.
Lot's of rolls of failures.
Here's me in the local paper back in '86 with my homemade 8" GEM.
How cool is that digital watch man...and that tracksuit :)

Steve

[strongmanmike]

It's funny, as far as how I do things these days the levels of frustration are still on a par because the expectations are so much higher. The idea that I should strive for average guide errors of well under 1/2 arc sec was just not even considered back then and the amount of trailiing in the 1984 shot was perfectly acceptable really. Let alone being able to see lots of detail in the dust lane, well, that was left to David Malin and a 4m telescope. Laptops now freeze, cables get pulled out or don't work, guide scopes dew over, batteries run down the list is just as long these days as it was then. The best thing about the digital age though is that you more often catch the imaging issues early so you can look for fixes more quickly, wating until the next day or longer to see how an imaging run went was par for the course and mighty frustrating at times.

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Very cool Steve we must be similar ages..? I have a photo almost identical (me and my 8" newt) that appeared in the Canberra Times in 1985 after winning an award for my astro efforts - too funny!

Yep, the good old darkroom in a garage at night was my approach and as for rolls of failure...tell me about it!!!!!

Mike

[strongmanmike]

I was in your dreams too probably.. did you ever see me? :P

I have a Lumicon 6X7 hyper kit under the house actually, complete with two gas bottles....I think..? :question:



Thanks mate.

[multiweb]

:eyepop: 26 yrs! Mate you should get the lifetime award soon ;) Great job on both shots. :thumbsup:

[h0ughy]

Dunno the stars in both look Bloated :rofl: :P ;)

fantastic slice of history and occasion Mike. You are, whats the word - now anything over 25years old is that considered antique? :thumbsup: :D

[strongmanmike]

At least the 2010 stars are round and colourful :thumbsup:

Antiquated maybe...? :P

[h0ughy]

;) - still way better than my efforts - in any era:rofl:

[Tom Davis]

In 1984 (or 1994 for that matter) I did not even own a telescope. You are light years ahead of me, Mike!

Congrats on a great imaging legacy!

Tom

[bmitchell82]

... how bout the mighty PS3 Sidonio action ... give it a once over see if you cant bring out a bit more detail? ey mike... dare ya to :D

Its great looking back on where you have been and where you are going. always exciting for me to do :)

[rogerg]

well all I can think to say Mike is .... congrats on making it through the 26 years and advancing so far!

I find it often feels like I make little improvement from one year to the next, so it's good to see that after 26 years significant improvement can be seen :)

[Paul Haese]

Man I got to scan some of my old film stuff.

I remember setting up our own lab just to process film. B&W and even colour. Most of the colour was slides but we used really fast colour and processed it. If we found a negative that looked sharp and well guided we would get it printed. Such was the cost of astrophotography then.

I can appreciate your images as we did similar stuff in the middle to late eighties. We loved every minute of the adventure and you know I still do. I am sure you do too.

Thanks for the comparison. Love the freezer suit.

[strongmanmike]

Light years ahead of you?:eyepop: mate! you are my bluddy idol :thumbsup:...well one of them ;)



Glad the nostalia was appreciated, made me think a bit actually.

Don't think even my wizzardry in the repro department could improve that image, it is a scan of a poor quality print actually using a cheap home A4 scanner, The print was once photo cornered to a display from 1984 and was ripped off and poorly stored :rolleyes:



Yeh never give up. I had a 9 year break while trying to become the Worlds Strongest Man but the imaging fire never left me :thumbsup:



You should mate, it's great for comparison purposes. I remember pre 1984 the beez kneez of photographs were being taken by Evered Kraimer (sp?) remember his Messier Album, he used a cold camera, B&W film and 12" Newt if I recall? He was my idol. The bright bits in images were all burned out of course but that was all we knew before David Malin worked his magic :thumbsup:

[barx1963]

Attila Horvath? Many years ago I was a very keen Archer, and I remember that there was an Attila Horvath involved in the Vic Archery scene back in the 70s and early 80s. I think, and I could be wrong that he was at Ararat. Wonder if it is the same person, ther couldn't be 2 people with that name surely!

[strongmanmike]

No not him, Attila was born and bread and still lives in Canberra. I think the name Attila in Hungary is like John or Gary here and Horvath is like Stewart or Johns...so there are probably lots of Attila Horvaths on the planet :thumbsup: