FLI PL16803 - A window on the Universe M104

[strongmanmike]

Well due to every concievable excuse....it's been a couple of months but when it rains it pours :D

This is the first of three data sets I collected last week with the new FLI ProLine 16803. What a camera, it is fast and operates flawlessly and smoothly just as the previous PL11002 did :thumbsup:.

This image encompases a huge 1.6deg X 1.6deg field around the famous Sombrero Galaxy.

The seeing wasn't very good but at an image scale of 1.4"/pixel there are many hundreds of tiny background galaxies visible and if you pan around the full size full res version you can see at least three distant galaxy clusters.

The following link takes you to a gallery of images made from the same data set, each image in the album zooms in further on the main prize.

Make sure you click on "Original" in the sizes menu at the bottom of each image page to see the largest file size

Take your time amongst the images and enjoy, my personal favourite is the flying saucer version...while the super close up postage stamp is especially for Fred :)

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/m104

[Grahame]

Nice one mike! Simply stunning FOV there :D

Grahame.

[JD2439975]

Holy Mega-pixel Madness Batman!! :eyepop:
That's a lovely big field & so very full of galaxies, noice one mate.
Looks like three large clusters down the bottom of frame alright with loads more sprinkled around for good luck, all that from 5 hours worth...do we have an envious drool smiley?

You know Mike you should really go deep on Abell 1689 & do a supercluster some justice...hint, hint. ;)

A couple of galaxies trying to hide behind a star in the top right corner caught my eye, seems one of them goes by the name of 6dFGS gJ123539.4-110402...just rolls off the tongue, very romantic.

Oh yeah & M104 looks pretty good too. :lol:
Here's hoping for some better seeing conditions for you.

[MrB]

Wow, are I jealous much? you betchya! Nice shot, nice cam!

This isn't criticism.. I'm not qualified... I notice there is a blue halo around M104, looks like noise but is that a processing artefact or is it normal? Swarm of young globulars etc?

[bratislav]

Some lateral chromatic aberration starts to show at this chip size ? Is this AP flattener ?
Great pic BTW. Large frame AND high resolution. Can't beat the combination.

Bratislav

PS love the off centre composition. :thumbsup:

[Bassnut]

Thats certainly a huge field there Mike, with lots to look at. The close up is a bit noisy but the exposure time is not that long either.

I think with a bit more exposure time, youd see a lot more galaxies pop up clearly. A good start with the new cam, bodes well, must have been a beitch to get aligned etc.

[Hagar]

Big is the operative word here. I cannot get over the high res image but more so the detail/ fine detail in the crop of M104 on it's own. You definitely pull the most out of your images.
Great stuff.

[strongmanmike]

Yeah Justin I love images that you can go find stuff in :D glad you had a surf around, always makes me go ooey and gooey seeing so many galaxies in the distance :P.

I did the Centaurus Galaxy Cluster for my last and first image with this new camera actually. The seeing at my dark site is rarely very good though so going for small galaxies can be a little disapointing, I have 1.4"/pix resolution available with this setup but if the seeing is only 3-4 arc sec...weeellllll :sadeyes: I was pretty happy with the level of detail I was able to extract in M104 in the end but the techniques used here were useless for use on the rest of the image.

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Aaaah yes...the blue halo :whistle:.... is a product of processing at night in a darkened room, the brightness of the screen overwhelms subtle colour casts and in this case in more daylight or normal room lighting the screen brightness is subdued so the colour cast is more obvious. I like a very slight blue cast to a sky but in this case a little toning down may be in order, cheers....a swarm of young globulars (do they exist?) sounds good though :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Hi'ya Brat!

No Chromatic abberation...what sacriledge :eyepop: this is an AP my man :lol: and a small chip as far as the design of the AP 4" FF specs go :thumbsup:

What you are noticing, particularly in a couple of the corners, is a tad of colour frame missalignment which, yes, is more difficult to deal with at this chip/field size...I didn't notice it until well into the processing and by then was not interested in going back and tweeking the sub alignment registration...cause it was late and I am a little lazy :zzz2:...just ignore it :D

I agree, 1300mm FL with 9 micron pixels is pretty well ideal I recon?

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Yes as usual I pushed every bit out of the relatively small amount of data that I could and also as usual ran the guantlete of acceptable noise, I prefer a little noise to an artificially smoothed look...as you well know ;). Processing for both wide field AND narrow field from the same data is deffinitely challenging, I should do it more seperately but I kinda like to know that everything is in there in both the full wide field AND the up close shots :thumbsup:

The seeing was the Achilles heal here, small galaxies get blured and dimmed significntly, applying sharpening to such areas of an image only serves to ruin them further. When the seeing is good it is like chaulk and cheese, as Marcus discovered in his Leo tripplet image.

I have only had it out four nights so far but the camera has been an absolute joy to use and configure just like the PL11002 was :thumbsup:

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Doug, it is deffinitely a challenge pushing a 6" as far as one can :thumbsup:

Mike

[erick]

Cool, a galaxy with its own "pointers"! Jaws rule! Nice framing, Mike :thumbsup:

[TrevorW]

Nice FOV, plenty detail, good colour, shame about the flaring on the stars.

[bratislav]

That's why I was asking!
I thought about misalignment, but then noticed that red 'edge' always points towards the center. That is classic lateral CA. If it was misalignment, red flare would be always on the same side, regardless of position in the frame.
4" FF may be, but it could have been designed with 25 micron film resolution in mind, not giant small pixel CCD chips. ;)

OK I'll ignore it :lol: You can't see it unless image is about meter wide anyway.

Bratislav

[Paul Haese]

Lovely example of this galaxy. Perfect guiding and excellent colour. However I just find this sort of thing a waste of real estate. Just my personal opinion here but I really never found the fascination of having millions of faint fuzzies in an image where the subject is being over whelmed by the huge expanse and the only thing to see is well faint smudges. This is not an indictment on the image itself. It is superb in so many ways.

I do like the galaxy and certainly better than anything I have tried before or likely to get in the near future. Nice Work Mike.

[strongmanmike]

I guess it's like this: I want to image a galaxy -> chip is huge hmmm? -> may as well frame it in an interesting way to encompas some other interesting things = multiple images all in one aaaand an image of the galaxy, just as if I had used a much smaller CCD :thumbsup:. Of course the chip will come into its own on more extended objects (psst...a couple in the pipeline :D). Besides, know many galaxies that would not look small in a 1.6deg X 1.6deg FOV? he he he...



Glad you liked it Paulie :)

[renormalised]

Very nice shots of the galaxy....a fine target :)

[RobF]

Wonderful start Mike. I wondered when we'd start to hear from you and the new rig. Thanks for sharing early efforts. Cool to see the new Enterprise come up to lightspeed, but I'm sure we'll be seeing Warp 9 images in months/years to come too :thumbsup: :D

[MrB]

Haha, probably not!
Was making up answers for what I saw, trying to figure why they didn't extend far from the galaxy.
Swarm of globulars sounds good to me ;)

[gregbradley]

Nice shot Mike. Whilst not the ideal setup for galaxies it turned out very well.

I don't think those white spots are globs but small edge stars in our galaxy - or at least I don't think they are.

As far as alignment goes I found the CCDIS plug in for CCDstack gets super accurate alignment and if it is from misalignment it will fix it for sure.

Greg.

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Rob yes I am looking forward to doing some fields that really take advantage of the masive chip :)

Actually this is my second image with the new rig. I imaged the Centaurus Galaxy Cluster back in April:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/centaurus_galaxy_cluster

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Trev

The flaring on bright stars has always been a mystery....:shrug:, must be an obstruction somewhere in the light path but I have never bothered to really track it down....I have grown used to it now and don't really notice it any more :)

Mike

[strongmanmike]

I don't see the radial nature you are suggesting Brat, to me it is not a chromatic aberation issue. It is a simple registration issue that I will have to show more care with next time, registration with such large swaths of sky at this focal length needs a little more care. My first image of the Centaurus Galaxy Cluster doesn't show it...must have taken more care that time :P

Mike

[strongmanmike]

Cheers Greg

Maybe not "ideal" but this image scale (1.4"/pix) is more than adequate while stll allowing for a good swath of sky coverage. The seeing here is rarely if ever good enough to take advantage of this image scale anyway :sadeyes:. Even with reasonably crappy seeing, I think this crop compares reasonably well with other shots of M104 out there taken at much longer focal lengths :shrug:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/125685837/original

with better seeing available I would have to agree that is when a longer focal length would really help.

Oh they are deffinitely globulars you see there, quite a few are visible actually!

Astroart usually does very well in the registration department, I was just a tad careless this time...doh!

I have held off with the praise of this new camera until I had a couple of imaging sessions under my belt but now I mist say it is really a fantastic platform and I am very excited about the future.

Mike

[gregbradley]

Yes I agree, your crop does stand up to longer focal length versions. yet again your setup punches well above its weight - 3 cheers to Roland Christen for the super scope and to your skill.

I was having trouble occassionally with sub misalignment then when CCDPIS plug in for CCDstack got released that ended that. It does a super job and quite fast too.

I like the PL as well. I can't fault its performance functionwise. Only thing I would like to see improved is its weight.
I think I get very slight flex with my FSQ setup that I didn't with the U16M. Also because the chip is a bit deeper inside the camera it meant a different type of adapter which is more likely to flex -its like a bucket that fits inside the drawtube.

Seeing this time of year though is typically better isn't it? Skies seem pretty calm around my area at the moment.

Greg.

[RobF]

Thanks Michael - I'd missed those
Just awesome. FOV and resolution of these next generation CCDs (on a fantastic OTA) is just....awesome

[multiweb]

Nice shot mike. Must be good to be out imaging again. :thumbsup:

[strongmanmike]

Oh I dunno...whad a ya recon? :D:P...first real test run for the freezer suit too - warm!

[DavidU]

A fantastic image Mike.
Your rig must be a lot of work to transport & setup ! (and if you remember the laptop:D).
Your dedication is A+.

[h0ughy]

Love the look Mike - very fashionable on a winters night - you can even sleep in it ;)
i like the shot, but i think the seeing has crueled you a lot with the field. it hasnt been great of late:(

love to see more......:P REpro #

[Garyh]

Oh, I love that freezer suit! I want one!
Nice image and framing Mike! What a big piece of sky that ccd captures!
:thumbsup: The detail you have captured in the galaxy is quiet good for 1.4" per pixel..

[strongmanmike]

Yes it is a bit of work to get my images, in fact it can be daunting at times. On Friday night I packed the car and went to my sons school for a function with the intention of going out to my dark site afterwards, well when I was finished at about 9pm and went out side it was crystal clear and getting cold but the idea of driving nearly an hour and then setting up in the dark to be ready for maybe 11.30pm or so was just not attractive...so I just drove home :sadeyes:....unpacking the car on Saturday morning with a still crystal clear blue sky above was a little heart breaking too :(

I really wish I had an observatory :mad2:

[gregbradley]

Got to admire your dedication to travel and setup like that then break it all down and take it back. I have been doing similar when I travel and image at my dark site. But then I usually stay there for 3 nights. Annoying though when bad weather moves in for all 3 nights and you travelled 3.5 hours each way.

Gee makes me feel slack when I didn't image last night with everything setup already outside and clearish skies but the moon was still up a bit!

Greg.

[bratislav]

You're right, no signs of lateral chromatism in that image. What made me suspicious - see the crops from left and right sides of your M104. Red fringe innermost on both (to the right of the left corner crop, to the left at right corner crop). I still can't understand how (mis)alignment can produce something like that. One possibility is that red light image was done at shorter f.l. , either caused by ambient temperature shift of some other weird combination of parameters.

Bratislav

[strongmanmike]

I see the confusion Brat but I wouldn't have thought lateral chromatism would be that obvious anyway..?

When I have composed my red, green and blue sets I manually mark three stars in the master Lum and then the same three stars in each of the red green and blue frames and coregister each of them with the Master Lum. If I select less than optimal alignment stars the coregistering, particularly of such a large image, can be a bit wonky. I should have checked before going any further and reselected the three stars but given this wasn't as big an issue with my previosuly smaller chips I neglected to pan around into the corners to see :sadeyes:

I think this may be the reason.

I also had a litlle bit of egging in two of the red frames (I only took three) so perhaps that has contributed too?