Got Me To Thinking

[renormalised]

I was thinking about the prices of astronomical equipment that we have to pay in Australia, especially for scopes and imagers, just recently and it occurred to me just how much the government is actually ripping us all off. I can understand why they would put import duties on things such as cars, clothing etc etc, aw we produce these items in Australia, but can anyone name me any manufacturers of scopes (commercial ones, not scopes such as SDM's etc), imagers or other similar equipment here in Oz?? Silence?? I thought so. Even for ordinary cameras and such, no one in Australia makes them...none of the big companies have any facilities in Oz. Everything is imported. Now, import duty is basically a tax, one that was originally levied to help protect local industries from "unfair" overseas competition. It was used to level out the price difference between cheaper overseas goods and more expensive homemade gear. If we have no industries here making the stuff, then why should they bother slapping an import duty on them. Except to just grab money...yep, another honey pot for the pollies to dip their greedy little hands into. Yes, it may grab them a bag full of money, but can you imagine how much more money they'd get out of GST gained off more of those goods being sold in this country if they never ramped the prices up by slapping import duty on them. How much easier would it be to enter the hobby and how much more willing would people be to fork out money for equipment when they knew it would be relatively cheap and only had it's price dictated by the value of the currency and not rafts of imposed taxes as well.

Have a think about it:)

[Kevnool]

Hi Carl would a telescope maker pay me my $30p/hr here in Oz?
I hope this forms a part of the answer.
Cheers Kev.

[renormalised]

If you were a top optical engineer, you'd be getting more than that. Substantially more. An ordinary worker wouldn't. But that's not the point. The point is these goods aren't made in this country and so there's no industry to protect. So all the government is doing, is just applying the tax over everything (at the particular rate for these items) with a view of gathering revenue. It's nothing more than a tariff on the goods. For a country that's supposed to have signed and is abiding by "free trade" agreements, it's a little hypocritical.

But then again, they all do it, to some extent.

[Steffen]

What is the import duty on optical goods exactly? Is there any? I have no idea, and the customs web site doesn't seem to give up this information easily. I know there is import duty on cars and alcohol and tobacco, but there isn't any on cameras and photo gear, for example. Just wondering what the situation is with telescopes and such…

Of course, GST is always payable on all imported goods, unless they fall under the grace threshold of $1000 and come in through the right channels.

Cheers
Steffen.

[Kal]

There is no import duty on telescopes - only GST.

[renormalised]

You sure there, Andrew?? I was certain there was, being a luxury item. If there's not, then the only reason I can see scopes like the Celestrons and such being so damn dear out here compared to their prices elsewhere, is because the thieving b's out here that import them put such a high markup on the prices. Yes, it will cost to ship them out to here, but it'd cost a business a lot less than it would an individual simply because they can buy them in bulk and also get a importer's discount. There's no need to whack onto the price of anything as much as they do, to make a profit. All it is, is just plain and simple greed.

[rmcconachy]

I believe Andrew is correct, there is no duty on scopes or eyepieces. The bulk of the inflated (compared to overseas) price is typically going to the distributors (not the dealers). The current and previous Australian distributors for Celestron products are prime examples.

[Kal]

100% sure.

[renormalised]

Yes, I know...it's the importers who are the problem. The dealers can't do much except take their cut out of it, but the vast majority of the inflated price is through the importers/wholesalers.

The only way we're going to see an change in this is if the government cracks down on this or someone else gets in on the action and undercuts the present distributors.

[Blue Skies]

Having been on the other side of the counter, I can back this up 100% as well. Don't blame the govt,they've got nothing to do with it.

[renormalised]

That depends on the situation. If the government is applying an import duty which raises the prices substantially, and there is no reason for the duty to be on the goods, then you can blame them. But if there's no duty but the prices are steeper than they should be, then it's a matter of the importer trying to rip everyone off. Especially if the price hike is occurring at their end. Otherwise, it's a problem of the retailer...or maybe a combination of both.

[Tandum]

Your just going in circles here. There is NO import duty on astro gear or cameras. There is GST, Shipping and customs processing fees. If you don't like the prices from the Australian dealer you can normally shop off shore. Yes there are a couple of exceptions like celestron, so don't buy celestron, too easy, buy Takahashi :)

[Steffen]

Aren't they just as bad? Didn't somebody post a link to a HK store only today, that wouldn't send Tak gear to Australia because Takahashi want to protect "official" channels?

Cheers
Steffen.

[DavidTrap]

I did not pay import duty on my AP mount, but did pay GST & customs processing fees.

DT

[renormalised]

No need to get in a twist over this. My original intention with this post was to point out that putting an import duty onto goods, such as scopes and imagers, especially given the cost of many of the imported items, was ridiculous. Knowing now that the government doesn't put a duty on them makes me wonder even more about the ripping off of customers by unscrupulous importers, who should be rapped over the knuckles for doing so. 50% of the reason why they get away with what they do is because they have no competition and the other 50% is just sheer greed on their part.

[Tandum]

That's news to me, I've bought all my tak stuff off shore without issue.


I guess if you have a hi sales volumes you can buy/sell stuff cheaper. I see computer shops here selling stuff cheaper retail than I can get it wholesale cos of the volume they buy/sell. I read in here a while ago that someone went to OPT in the US and new scopes where walking out the door every 5 minutes. That's the shop not the online sales. If you don't like the prices shop elsewhere. If you do want a cheap scope check out the 4sale forum, I know of a 10" dob going cheap :D

[renormalised]

Every 5 minutes!!!!:eyepop:

Guess though that's a function of having such a huge market...OPT being in Cali' and Cali' having 36 million people or so. I mean, a half a day's drive from the store would put you in another state, so it's not like they cant come from anywhere and everywhere in the state to buy a scope from OPT:)

The problem with scopes is they'd never be hi sales volumes items...not out here, at least. But even still it doesn't cost that much to import goods, even for a batch of 5-10 scopes, that it's going to drive the prices up so far that you have to add nearly 100% on the list price to recoup your costs. If that was the case, I'd be looking to get into another business. It wouldn't be worth it.

Ideally, what would be great is for some optics manufacturer to start up out here and build scopes for local and export markets. Although, you'd probably still have to pay through the nose for them. Like they make us pay for other stuff here.

[RickS]

It might not be so great if the manufacturer lobbied successfully for the introduction of duties on imported scopes...

[Brundah1]

It was briefly mentioned in this thread, but worth drawing the discussion back to the real problem of high cost of astro gear in OZ.

Market volume and competition drives down prices! I doubt Harvey Norman and Big W will ever sell quality astro gear
There is no comparitive market volume in OZ for these main chain stores to buy products at the right volume price ex-factory! So we are left with closed franchises and small retailers.

10% GST and import duty are not the issues - full stop!

The reason the new Celestron Distributor lowered the prices is because they negotiated a deal with Celestron to buy ex-factory - not via USA.

They still have to buy accessories via USA - so those prices have not varied. My source of info is direct from S&H and I have discussed with them the idea of establishing a better relationship owners of Celestron telescopes to offer deep discounts on one-off buys of specific accessories ex-factory the same way as the telescopes.

Also I have watched my son established direct importing of specific electrical industry components ex-factory in China - he has been to industry shows in China twice this year. Direct access and volume drives prices in China!

However setting up as an importer in OZ requires capital and a targetted market.

These are the real issues.

David

[renormalised]

That's probably what would happen.

[renormalised]

The thing with high volume markets is that much of the merchandise that's sold in those markets is of the "must have the latest" type...it wouldn't surprise me if 60-70% or more of the scopes sold in the US get little, if any use and are just status items for most of the buyers over there. Even in a country as large as the US, few people would be "real" amateur astronomers. There's probably no more than 2-4 million people out of a pop'n of 320 million that would regularly use their scopes or even be interested in astronomy. Yet if you look at the sales figures over there, there's probably 30-40 million that own a scope and they keep buying up every year. If they were less concerned about status and keeping up with the Jones's, the market in the US would be sufficiently small enough to drive the prices up there as well. Knowing how vociferous people in the US can be about the costs of things, can you imagine getting away with charging nearly $4000 for a CPC800...like they do here in Oz!!!. Not likely. The big problem with Australia is that it's not large enough to support a high volume sales market in quality scopes and optical goods, yet it has a large enough astronomical community to support much better competitive pricing of those goods that are sold here. There's not a million or more amateurs out here, but there'd be quiet a few thousand of them...I'd dare say 100,000. Small, but not a bad little market. Give them a little slack, don't try to become a millionaire overnight, and you'd find that you'd sell a lot more than you would if you went about doing things like some distributors do.