Do you agree with Stephen Hawking?

[bartman]

Stephen Hawking's recent comment about not contacting other intelligent life could be harmful to life on Earth.
This is the link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8642558.stm

S.H. believes we should not ....... for reasons in the above link

The question for the poll is:

Do you agree or disagree ?
1: Agree
2: Disagree
3: Other ...please explain

Bartman

[leon]

Bart I wouldn't worry about it personally, as we are alone in this vast Universe ;)

Leon :thumbsup:

[circumpolar]

"But he warned that aliens might simply raid Earth for resources, then move on. "

What a load of crap. Does he really think that Earth has something special in regards to resources? I think not.

Typical for ONE MINUTE word news BBC.

[dugnsuz]

No way leon!!
Probability has got to suggest otherwise - even if it's bacterial, life must exist elsewhere - we are the precedent after all!
As for avoiding them - well if they can reach us it would suggest they're more advanced. Now, do we believe that "advanced" means more enlightened or might it mean better at violent subjugation? We do it pretty well when we've got bigger sticks on earth - as natural physical laws seem to be universal, perhaps the survival of the fittest prevails too!? I would love to be told of the existence of cosmic flu but wouldn't like to encounter Predator!

[astroron]

I think there are other civilizations out in the Universe, but the chances of them even knowing of our Earth is minute.
As Paul Davis said on the ABC this afternoon, we may receive Radio Signals from other civilizations but the chances of visits to Earth is close to Zero.

[dugnsuz]

A very tasty morsel called "us" - well me anyway!!

[bartman]

Alone in the Milky Way Possibly but not in the Universe surely.....
Leon I'm not worried.....as the Universe as we know it is vast, and if there was a Wraith/ Gould/ other alien being that would like to harvest our resources, they would have done so by now.
HOWEVER.........sorry for the CAPS,
it is an interesting point......
"our probing of the Universe" could alert a civ that might like to munch on our resources:eyepop:
Bartman

[danielsun]

It would be fantastic to have contact with other alien life but I do agree with him for the fact that we would have to be careful of who we invite over here for that you would think any life form that has the technology to get here would be frighteningly advanced and possibility of them stripping our planet and taking over or even introducing new disease.But then again maybe they come in peace and teach us how not to kill ourselves.
I totally believe we are not alone.

Cheers Daniel.

[dugnsuz]

Agree - but doesn't stop hypothesis eh?

[astroron]

It was NOT ONE MINUTE NEWS, it was an interview with Stephen Hawking, which I heard:P
Seems like we have another BBC Knocker.:rolleyes:
Some more information for you.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/26/2882591.htm
It is in a program for Discovery Channel

[leon]

If there were some sort of life out there that could actually communicate and think, and maybe zoom about this universe, as suggested at times, then why have they not done anything about it. :shrug:

If some exsited close to our closest Star at 4.something light years away then it would take them over 4 years to reach us at the speed of light, :eyepop: unless they knew Scotty of coarse, ;) Beam Us Up Scottie).

Leon :thumbsup:

[bartman]

Dont get me wrong,
I would love to meet an greet an alien.......
But..... as S.H. pointed out, if they evolved like we did then similar "human' traits will ensue.
BUT if they have come as far as being able to travel to our neck of the woods then there might be a chance that they are more intelligent /evolved than we are and therefore be """"nice""""

[bartman]

:ship2:Go Scottie!

[dugnsuz]

Trouble is we all seem to view alien life through a "Star Trek" prism - including their capabilities and intentions.

Exobiology is a fascinating and obviously hypothetical (at present) subject - it would be nice to detect even the excretia of life on our closest planets.

[bartman]

sorry just found a hole in my last post....
just because they are more advanced does not mean """nice"""
:confused2::confused2::confused2:

[that_guy]

it wouldnt be the aliens themselves that would be harmful, its the people of this planet that might
1. Mass suicide since religion was debunked
2. mass hysteria
3. crash in the economy
4. global martial law

[dugnsuz]

absolutely!!

[bartman]

[QUOTEit would be nice to detect even the excretia of life on our closest planets.[/QUOTE]
HeHeHeHe

[dugnsuz]

Have you ever stamped on an ant-hill?:lol:

[that_guy]

yes... I regretted it to this very day...

[dugnsuz]

:lol:

[michaellxv]

He may be right. Do you really believe that the entire human race is going to go out and play nice. I don't think so. So why should we assume that all E.T. are nice.

But we are a curious lot, and this is where the frontier of exploration is. So, of we go with all our ill informed prejudices.

[dugnsuz]

Including you dear boy!
The point is at present we can't know the extent or sophistication of any life in our immediate neighborhood - as for heading out to engage with it and potentially harming it with our 'ill informed prejudices', well that's just daft

[Nesti]

On this subject I believe only one thing; If aliens had any brains they'd stay the hell away from us.

We have nothing to fear, but they do!

[GrahamL]

Until such time as we as a planet can be seen as one and our preocupation of killing each other off can be put to bed .

I propose all attempts to find and contact the first civilised world in the known universe should carry a short and succinct message in regard to our own. :)

[dugnsuz]

#1 Human frailty - not on debate

On reflection perhaps not, considering that it's the frailty of human understanding and experience that produces the statements which fuel this kind of debate!:shrug:

oops I edited my post rather than doing a new one - bugger it!!

[bartman]

Nesti (mark)...did you get that from 'the Shamen'?

[astroron]

And Multi Universes and Bubbles:screwy:

[Nesti]

Yes, indeed I did...here's the link to my resources: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ruu9EcZj8I&feature=related

I did write about this idea however, I changed my response BTW. Something a little more palatable for you. :thumbsup:

[bartman]

Leon is this what you were talking about?
"More than likely we are not alone however, we might as well be, considering the distances we're talking about." quote from Nesti.?
Doug,
'Higher dimensional space and virtual particle scattering seems as theoretical as alien life. '
which it is ......but we ...humanity ....aren't ready to understand that just yet.
But alien life is ...welll is almost certain..not theoretical
bartman

[dugnsuz]

"E's are good, E's are good"
Jerry Sadowitz!!! LOL - a Scottish comedian...I know the feeling!:P

[bartman]

Ebaneezers good!

[dugnsuz]

Almost certain IS theoretical El Barto!
:P

[Nesti]

Hang-on, alien life isn't theory, it's a hypothesis. A suggestion with possible experiments/observations to confirm the suggestion.

Anyway, all I was saying earlier was; if you lean towards String Theory, I don't believe that Calabi-Yaus fill the universe, I believe there is only one Calabi-Yau.

No mystery, no Hocus-Pocus, just a different slant on an existing theory which does-away with multiple universes, even probability. If you looked deeply into it rather than just dismissing it, you might actually see it's merits...if anyone could be bothered that is.

[michaellxv]

I was not excluding myself from that.

At present we are limited to looking, even a conversation is impracticle.

[bartman]

:eyepop:hahaha far out haven't seen that for a while!!!:thanx:

[dugnsuz]

Bee-atch!!!!:lol:

[mill]

..

[bartman]

yep Doug
'almost certain' ....cant' believe I didn't not certainly affirm that the unconfirmed affirmation of the non theoretical statement i made.....
hehehehheeheeejejejejeheehe:questio n:

[mill]

And with the two dots i say as much as Steven Hawkins knows about alien life (Nada , nothing).

[dugnsuz]

I had to google that - and although complex mathematically it sounded like gnostic religion. Are you a gnostic Mark?

[dugnsuz]

Are you joking Martin - he's in a wheelchair with a computer voice, surely he knows!!

[bartman]

Mill its life not live

[dugnsuz]

Pedant!!:P

[Nesti]

It may surprise you, but I'm not religious and don't really believe in a God...the closest thing to God that I believe in is perhaps a collective consciousness, but that's not even close to what you're asking.

[mill]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:



Duhhhh sue me over an spelling mistake :lol:

[Nesti]

Two singularities, Yin and Yang of dots...like wow dude, that's like profound! :lol:

[Nesti]

Hang-on , what was the thread about???? :lol:

[mill]

Ah yea it is about some dude that has a lot of people hanging on every word he says, telling us to be vewy vewy scared (spelling mistakes here are intentionally) (hope the comma is in the right spot :P ).

[bartman]

sorry.............I hate being pedantic.......
lets get back on topic
say HI to an alien or Not?

[dugnsuz]

Yeah you're a gnostic!!! You believe you have insight - more so than the rest of us?
From the minutiae to the universal - when the sun sets we cannot know.
Although we can kick against it, we're all in the same boat.
:)

[Nesti]

Right! Shoot first, ask questions later.

[michaellxv]

we already did when some clever person invented radio....

[Nesti]

Uuuuummmm, riiiiight! ***Dr Evil style***

[mill]

Hmm we have a very clever man in our midst's here.
You are perfectly right here Michael :thanx:
Why didn't Steven Hawkins think about that ?

[bartman]

yep , but do we say Hi or GTFOH?

[Nesti]

Well said, GTFOH...literally! :lol:

[mill]

But can we make them :P

[michaellxv]

Anyone out there that's been paying attention would get a very bad impression of us.

[dugnsuz]

Seemingly they don't like the salty water!!!:D

[dugnsuz]

flip em - it'll take them at least 4 light years to get a crew together!

[bartman]

new poll then?
GTFOH or Hi?

[marc4darkskies]

We should say hi and get to know them ... I'll bet their Illudium Q36 explosive space modulated CCD cameras are to die for!!! :D

[dugnsuz]

We're back to square one here...

Hawking says GTFOH!

[Nesti]

Out there in the internet, or OUT THERE-OUT THERE??? :lol:

[dugnsuz]

Zero degrees Kelvin cooling I heard!!!

[Jaybee]

Tch.. everyone should know that aliens can only observe us and are not allowed to interfere with our cultures, as its against the Prime Directive. They are also not allowed to make First Contact until we have developed Warp Field Technology...:P

[Nesti]

And people take the piss out of what I say...hmmmmm :lol:

[bartman]

nah nah nah
Please guys and girls
lets get back on track
RESET
Clear cut question:
Will contacting alien life cause irreplaceable damage to our way of life?

[michaellxv]

We've been broadcasting for a lot longer than that. Which begs the question. Where the hell are they:shrug: Very rude of them not to say hello by now.



Both, even the Internet has been effectivily broadcast for many years now.

[dugnsuz]

Nice one!!

[astroron]

Watch it Doug the Mods will be on your tail;)

[dugnsuz]

"Will contacting alien life cause irreplaceable damage to our way of life"

How the flip do I know:lol::lol:






Okay I'll take a stab at it...
Yes!!!!

[dugnsuz]

oops Ron I did it again!!!
:help:

[Nesti]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Classic!

[astroron]

Nothing further out than about 100 years will have received any Radio signals from Earth:thumbsup:

[dugnsuz]

Alright, too much Vino Collapso for this chap!
It's been fun.
Toodle Pip!!:hi:

[michaellxv]

That's more than enough if we are going to get a reply in my lifetime.

[Nesti]

No big deal, Amway will be having meetings out that far in no time...then Tupperware parties, then a McDonalds drive [fly] through.

Like I said, they had better stay well away from us; we're sick.

[bartman]

mm
So its clear then

[JD2439975]

Should we be cautious of alien life?...HELL YEAH!!

OK we have no definitive proof that alien life exists but the chances are pretty good that it's out there.
So lets start with life we do know of, here on Earth...

Rule one...life feeds on life, only the crudest of organisms can survive without the byproducts or whole beings of other organisms.
That alone spells caution to me.

Size is irrelevant...microbes can do hideous things to creatures a million times their mass. (approximately, don't bother to correct me)

Intelligence is irrelevant...we, the most intelligent species known continue to devise more & more efficient ways of killing each other or killing & enslaving the one and only living planet that we know to exist...very smart. :rolleyes::screwy:
Technological level goes hand in hand with intellect but has the added horror of being 'passed down'.
Monkeys can be taught to drive cars, half the morons on the road have similar IQs & they don't even know how a automobile works let alone how to build one.

We can speculate on possible outcomes 'till the cows go home', I think our only real option at the moment is wait & see.
The Universe is a dangerous place...but my, isn't it beautiful. :D

Justin

[sheeny]

Any encounter with alien life is dangerous. As mentioned before as Europeans explored the world the effects on indigenous populations has been devastating. That's not from shooting and conflict, but from disease.

If you're worried about aggressive aliens of superior intelligence, well it's possible, but the odds are against it. "That's just paranoia - everyone in the universe has that!" (Sorry I couldn't resist;)) The bigger threat is from a micro-organism of a type that hasn't evolved here on earth. We might find such things in our solar system, but I doubt it given the ability of the planets to swap bits of rock!

Al.

[supernova1965]

Being an alien who lives on Earth I am surprised that our time as ambassador's on Earth has not improved relations. And still we have the majority not wanting to contact us don't forget we have seen your history maybe we have stayed away waiting for Earth people to evolve socially to a state where we feel safe to show ourselves. Me thinks that the ones who reckon they shouldn't contact us have been watching V to much :rofl:

[Baddad]

Hi All, :)
Wow! I am surprised at Mr. Hawking's statement. I would have expected much better of him.

I consider his "warning" to be more emotionally initiated than logically generated.

My reasoning is that: An alien race evolving to the point of such advanced technology will have to have overcome a number of issues.
These include; killing off themselves, solving the requirement of material and energy resources through recycling or other means.

Aliens, capable of inter galactic travel would not want to deal with Earthlings. When I was a child I used to stomp on an ants nest. Maturing psychologically, I avoid ant nests. They have no interest for me apart from observing them. That is done by not disturbing the little bities.

Why would aliens want to raid Earth for resources? They would have the capability to harness energy from stars (suns) and turn silicon to lead and lead into gold.

Mr. Hawkings has made his statement without much consideration.
Advanced aliens would not be so emotionally immature to attack us for the fun of it. I know I can decimate that ant nest now but what for?
Ohh! Mr. Hawkings needs to rethink a little and review his statement.

Ants' nest in my backyard I deal with, but we are not in an alien's backyard. We are no threat. Aliens don't want to know we exist. We are not important to them.

The human thinking centers around "life consumes life". Aliens would be above that. They may obtain sustenace in another form. Pollution, 100% recycling abilities, no longer an issue for them. Ability to control their world or environment is why.:thumbsup:

We are not at all important to them. However we could learn much from them. Turn a lump of coal into a 40 carat diamond. A ton of lead into gold. (Destroy the economy as we know it). Imaging scopes that outdo Hubble.....:eyepop: (Hmm That may be fantasising a little). Regrow severed limbs. The list goes on.

Images of the Eagle nebula from the "other side":)

We are insignificant. We are safe!:lol::D

Cheers Marty

[The Mekon]

No - because we are alone in the universe

[Ric]

Bring it on I say, invite them all.

Cheers

[multiweb]

Provided they have the technology to intergalactic travel then it wouldn't matter. They can find us anyway and do whatever they decide to do with us as we wouldn't have much say in the matter. So as Ric said, bring it on. :thumbsup: Maybe we are all an experiment in a controlled environment and they're watching right now laughing their a** off.

[Matt Wastell]

I am sure life existed or will exist at some point somewhere else in the Universe - Regardless of ability I doubt we will ever see visitors due to the sheer size of the place. We as a species will be here for such a short time so the probability reduces further.
Even if they came, in peace, we would be more likey to kill them than be eaten or stripped of resources!

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

I think there might be a quarantine effect in the universe.

Although we know that there is a lot we don't know yet about travelling over vast distances, it appears at least possible that there is no point to even trying - for any civilisation.

At our present stage of knowledge it is hugely difficult to even imagine getting to the nearest star in a meaningful fashion.

I'd like to see our top thinkers considering this as a more integrated subject - so there is a probability of life elsewhere, then, what is the consequent (Bayesian) probability of it travelling to our region? Or anywhere?

We are so ignorant really that it is all moot, for now.

Cheers

[michaellxv]

Yes, I think I saw Rincewind wandering around the other day :rofl:

[supernova1965]

Cool Linux space travel hope it is OPEN SOURCE I think some will understand what I mean others definately won't:P

[sheeny]

I don't think Stephen Hawking is worried about Rincewind or Twoflower... I think he's concerned about the luggage!:P

Al.

[bojan]

I am not too concerned about the contact.. The Fermi paradox is still not resolved.
However, the crucial question related to this was already put forward earlier (I think): what could possibly we have that they would want so badly?
It is not resources (ANY un-inhabitable planet or comet or asteroid anywhere in the universe have them)... also I do not think there is any danger of disease or infection (species barrier is not easy to jump over even between organisms evolved here on Earth... the probability of alien organisms that could feed on us is really minuscule, I would say nil. Most likely we would be poisonous to them and vice versa)

The only real danger I can imagine could be their eventual exclusive religious views and motives, if they exist in some form or another and if they are not favourable to other species. This, combined with (possibly) superior technology (if they are visiting us here, they would be superior then) could be fatal.

But, lets resolve the Fermi paradox first ;)

EDIT:
And, yes, "Mote in the God's eye" by Pournelle & Niven is very insightful description of such hypothetical situation.. Read it :-)

[JimmyH155]

answer is 42:D;):P

[lacad01]

We're actually stuck in the Matrix :lol:

[Steffen]

Yes, but process them off-shore. Queue jumpers need to be sent back. We can't risk having our way of life altered…

Cheers
Steffen.

[sheeny]

Yes, you are right from the point of view of disease... I overlooked that. Disease has been devastating because we are the same species.;)

But given the "success":P of introduced species such as the cane toad etc, I think there is a risk of an alien life form (however basic and simple) taking a liking to our environment and thriving without effective predators.

Al.

[bojan]

Yes, all depends on how similar the chemistry of those life forms are to ours (carbon based, DNA or RNA, or something else? etc) and if there is food for them here - if they are plants, then they are dependent only on sunlight and minerals, and possibly water (again, if they use water as a solvent/electrolyte)... and that could be dangerous in terms of using our space if procreation rate is sufficiently high... But then again, this will depend on environment temperature, and this being around 20°, procreation simply can not be much faster than that of earthlings..
So, most likely, there is no danger of chaotic infestation.
Cane toads are still "us", however alien they may look like .. ;)

[dugnsuz]

Very good Steffen:lol:

[gregbradley]

Slavery was only recently historically stopped in bulk in our world and is still practised in some areas. The Romans used it as well. Who's to say someone advanced wouldn't think - cool , a new source of "primitive" slaves!

Greg.

[dugnsuz]

That's the problem though Greg - all we have is our own experience to base any ideas of alien life/society on - and surely that's flawed from the outset - how can we know or envisage?.
Although I do think that "survival of the fittest" might prevail - but slavery might not fall under that heading - it's a man made idea.
Doug:thumbsup:

[starlooker]

I voted other.

If we are more technically advanced, then we should try to make contact.

If we are less technically advanced, and there is the possibility of a visit from aliens, then we shouldn't.

Of course, we won't know either way, until contact is made, so better to just listen for alien transmission, rather than broadcasting.

[bojan]

Robots are much better slaves than humans ever were :P

[dugnsuz]

You want to read some Asimov!
Those guys can get out of hand!
Hypothetically!:)

[bojan]

I have read everything written by Asimov :-)
The 3 laws of robotics are there, firmly implemented in their OS, so no worries.

EDIT:
(yes, I know.. windows etc... but I hope Microsoft will not be anywhere close to robots ;)

[supernova1965]

What are you all so scared of. All the movies that we humans have thought up like predator, alien and avatar either show bad aliens or bad us but it is showing how we think not how alien races will think when they may have completely alien way's of looking at things that we could not understand.:welcome:

[dugnsuz]

Well,I've seen iRobot with Will Smith...and those guys can be corrupted.

[dugnsuz]

bojan - your edit beat me to it!!

[bojan]

:d

Hmm.. smiley does not work...

[dugnsuz]

We live in a strange world where aliens can be debated till the cows come homes but religion which is equally contentious/ controversial and debatable closes threads down.

[bojan]

shush.... ;)

[dugnsuz]

:wink2:

[bojan]

BTW, have you noticed the slavery was introduced and practised only in (early) democratic societies ? (oops..)

[dugnsuz]

We've got to get off comparing humanity with alien-ity!!
But I realise all we've got is 'comparison' - should we take it back to first principles and suggest that DNA might be a fundamental for life universally?

If so then I still suggest the 'survival of the fittest' a good analogy for the Raison d'etre (:P) of the lifeforms we might encounter. ???????????????

[bojan]

I agree 110% with principle "the fittest survives", because there is no other mechanism that could possibly drive the evolution of living organisms - DNA-based or whatever-based...
However, the competition between us and them could be only for resources which are important for both.. and that may not be a great number of things if differences are sufficiently large (Sun's energy? Plenty of other stars are available for this purpose so.. )

Questions, questions..

[bojan]

The point I am trying to make is, with intelligence and civilisation, the Raison d'etre acquires a new dimension.. totally different "qualities" and "properties" are now important for species and/or individuals to survive.
For example, when we were in caves, we had to be both smart and strong to avoid being eaten by cave bear - our neighbour and wannabe tenant..
Today, we have to be only smart (to outsmart people like those who are running GOLDMAN Sachs and alike, for example) to survive..
I guess, the similar principles may be applicable to all sentient organisms living in civilised societies.

And, what may be important in the future?
With robots slaving for us (like in Asimov's novels.. rebellions etc would not be tolerated, so we have to design them not too smart), art, science and all those useless activities will replace "real" work .

Quite possibly, future humans will have very different goals.. and quite possibly, co-existence with alien races could be viable, without interference..

[casstony]

If we don't learn to be nice to each other we will destroy ourselves before evolving into a space-faring civilisation; therefore space-faring aliens must be nice in order to have avoided destroying themselves through war. Maybe.