What future has 'astronomy' in Australia?

[venus]

Seeing 2005 is nearing it's end, I was wondering what others see as Australia's role in the science of astronomy and will it change in the future?

I'm an optimist and I see Australia tackling astronomy head on, progressing and
maybe even being a forerunner in an innovative new space frontier...

[janoskiss]

There does not seem to be much future in visual astronomy, unfortunately, but I believe Western Australia, having vast unpopulated areas with minimal radio pollution, has the best case for being the home of the SKA (square km array). So I see the future of Australian astronomy very much skewed towards the long wavelength end of the electromagnetic spectrum.

[[1ponders]]

I would love to be able to agree with you venus. Unfortunately I see government astronomy funding going the way of other scientific research and development funding. (Along with other "enriching" funding) Sacrificed for more politically expedient and socially dehumanizing funding. :mad: :fight: :mad:

Over the past 10 - 15 years the Australian scientific community has had numerous opportunities to be part of the big picture in an enourmous number of emerging astronomical and space orientated projects. Unfortunately "we" have lost our visionary ways. Who launched the third satellite a where is that country in the space community now.

Sorry for the rant but it gets my back right up. :mad2:

More positive feed back please and prove me wrong.

[janoskiss]

Tax cuts or some real money for real astronomy? Which ones do ya reckon Costello's gonna pick?

The money will have to come from elsewhere. Radio astronomy and the SKA is our best bet.

[ving]

wouldnt it be grand having SKA right 'ere in Oz :)

as for the question... i have nfi :confused:

[rochler]

I really can't see things improving in terms of funding for visual astronomy. Basically the Government doesn't really give a cracker for astronomy or astrophysics since it doesn't really translate into any $$$ at the other end. They would rather fund research that ends up with some kind of tangible product or cost-saving breakthru (like in medicine etc.) or something we can export for $$$.

As a country we will have to struggle on - perhaps by concentrating on 'niches' where we already have significant skills and equipment (albeit most of our stuff is dated & small scale) and try to maximise our usefulness in the global scientific community that way.

The only real way of significantly improving things is by having lots of influence in Govt. circles & voter pressure. If everybody in Australia was interested in astronomy we'd be right mate! The whole thing is symptomatic of the decline in interest towards science in general - which has been happening quietly over a long period of time. Fixing it will also take a long time - starting with generating more interest at school level i.e. with our kids.

A quicker way, of course, would be for some genius out there to come up with an amazing breakthru, perhaps a Nobel or two? That might stir up some interest... How 'bout it, any budding Einsteins help us out here? I'd volunteer, but I'd be as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike hehe...:P

[GrampianStars]

Perspective here folks Australia is TOOOOO flat!!! No mountains suitable at all for visual work. The biggest hills are in the Perisher Valley & top 2 are Mount Kosciuszko 2228 Mts & Mount Townsend 2209Mts.

Take Hawaii for example Mauna Kea The 4,200 meter high summit houses the world's largest observatory (Suburu 8.3Mt) for optical, infrared, and submillimeter astronomy.

http://www.naoj.org/Introduction/img/telescope_photo_dome.jpg
* Altitude: 4139 m
* Latitude: 19d 49m 43s N
* Longitude: 155d 28m 50s W

* Cylindrical enclosure rotating with the telescope
* Height: 43 m
* Diameter at base: 40 m
* Weight: 2000t
* Outer wall: aluminum panels

[fringe_dweller]

[QUOTE=GrampianStars]Perspective here folks Australia is TOOOOO flat!!! QUOTE]

damn these old worn out continents ;(

[janoskiss]

True. That is why we should work more closely with the neighbours and put some serious dough into setting up and running a kick-ass big modern telescope in New Zealand.

[GrampianStars]

A real chalenge would be in Antartica
http://www.aad.gov.au/asset/images/479_ul-PCMEGA_Flag_raising.jpg
Antarctica is the highest continent on earth: average elevation is 2500 meters (average elevation of Australia is only 340 meters). The height of the South Pole is 2835 meters. The highest point on the icecap in Australian Antarctic Territory, at 4100 meters, at 82 20'S, 56 30'E.

[[1ponders]]

Now that would be a fantastic achievement Robert.

[ballaratdragons]

And Bird wouldn't need his Mirror refridgeration unit down there!

[venus]

love the *positvie* feedback:-)
what about Australia launching into the satellite business?
Maybe even a *seti* satelite system that involves setting monitors on existing satelites that would relay extraterrestrial data instead of the pc system now in use?
my 2c worth........

[janoskiss]

Well, Venus, I think radio astronomy is where it's at. And Australia has the potential to become the world leader in the field.

Have a look at the SKA website: www.skatelescope.org and have a read of the SKA location proposals: http://www.skatelescope.org/pages/p_locations.htm.

Clearly, Australia is where the SKA has got to go, in my unbiased ( :P ) opinion. And if that's not a *positive* for Australian astronomy I don't know what is. :)

[venus]

ta janoskiss, don't have to sell me on this amazing technology 30 years from planning to operation a long long project hey!

[iceman]

Great discussion Lydia!

[GrampianStars]

Looks like the Germans are more savey than the Aussies
plans and conceptual drawings have already been put in place at the Hanover Fair 2001 supporting the (Alfred Wegner Institute) for an Antartica base
http://www.esa.int/images/PICT0032_S,0.jpg
"If all goes according to plan, Neumayer-III will replace Neumayer II in 2008. In July the Germany Education and Research Minister, Edelgard Bulmahn, announced the allocation of €26 million to build the new German Antarctic station using "the most modern and environmentally friendly materials, previously only used in space technologies".

[venus]

Hi GrampianStars, you're not one of the elite 30 are you?frequent fliers (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051206/od_afp/spaceairvirgin_051206113922;_ylt=At OED1m_.aQdWCA0RDpHqzfPOrgF;_ylu=X3o DMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)

[avandonk]

The current government's policy is to not pick winners.So they will finance anything with a short term gain (more votes for me).They are deluded ignorant people lacking in higher thought processes and or any long term thought for the future.
The opposition is not much better!

They do not understand let alone foresee what science is! And what it can deliver!

They are too busy putting money towards dredging river mouths and or supporting a failed railway or anything else that simple people can understand, for votes!



Bert

[janoskiss]

I believe the forum guidelines forbid racism. To our Philistinian members, I sincerely apologise. :P


Opposition? We have one?

[fringe_dweller]

I knew a Phil .E. Stine once, he might be offended? :P

I thought Australian voters have made Howard El Presidente for life? and gone to a one party sytem at the federal level?

[janoskiss]

Yeah. Dictatorship is so much easier. It releases the individual from that last little bit of responsibility that comes with a democratic system.

[avandonk]

I am sorry will change it to what I meant.

Bert

[[1ponders]]

I agree totally bert. I can not understand how anyone doesn't realise the R&D will always pay off. And often not only in the direction as was initially envisaged in the research program.

[avandonk]

A philistine is not a Palestinian! Sorry to upset anyone.
A philistine is someone who is bereft of any higher thought etc.science art ...
A Palestinian is someone who lives in Palestine or has their origins there.
They are not related. But the term did originate in biblical times.

Sorry for the confusion


Bert

[avandonk]

Just like any good scientist.look at all the evidence,throw out the untrue that does not conform to an internal consistency,and try to come to a rational conclusion.For the time being.That is all we can do.

Bert

[janoskiss]

Two forbidden topics: racism and religion; together in harmony! :rofl: I was just poking fun, Bert! The word "philistine" has come to be a dictionary word meaning "smug and ignorant and indifferent or hostile to artistic and cultural values". So your use of the word was apt. :P

[avandonk]

I have been around a long time and I can assure you that denigrating any group is an anathma to me.

There are only two sins in this world, ignorance and hypocracy.Both can be stopped by a good education system.This starts at home and goes on from school to uni or trade,and the rest of your life.I am still learning and when I stop I will be dead!

Bert

[venus]

This thread is systematically declining to I don't know what so I'll just say one thing. Concentrate, take a deep breath think about something calm....
WATER (http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm)

[gaa_ian]

Well for my part I too see the greatest promise for visual astronomy in the high plateau of the Aussie Antarctic Territory.
As for visionary government .... they will only be as visionary as we prompt them to be.
Best way to do that (for Astronomy) is to get out there & educate, inform, entertain the public about science & Astronomy.
Who is doing a National Science week event in 2006?
There is usually some funding available !
https://sciencegrants.dest.gov.au/NIAS/Pages/Grants.aspx
We did one in 2004 & it was very successful, I am hoping for enough support for an event in 2006.
Please don't take this as a sign of support for the current federal Govt, I have strong philosophical & moral objections to many of their policies.
But there are still opportunities for us all to improve things.

[fringe_dweller]

Maybe amateurs are the distant future of 'astronomy' in Oz itself? imagine what could amateurs be using in ten years or twenty years time regarding equipment available to amateurs? IIS could be the future of astronomy in Oz? could be the ozzie NASA?
What ever it is I'm sure its going to have to be cheap with fantastic returns for its money to ever happen -

Venus i didnt know you could spam your own thread! ;) LOL thanks for the link! I DID feel calmer for it :) OHMMMM

[Greg Bryant]

We do live in interesting times. On the one hand, the UK is reducing its financial contribution to the Anglo-Australian Observatory (AAO) - it will become less Anglo and more Australian (in 5 years it will be fully 100% Oz!). On the other hand, Australia is more involved in international collaboration than ever before - and here I'm speaking of the team collaborations that go into international research, as well as being well-placed to secure the international Square Kilometre Array radio telescope project.

The scientific community has taken a look at what the coming 10 years might hold. Here's what they've said.

http://www.atnf.csiro.au/nca/DecadalPlan_web.pdf

Some light reading...:)

Regards,

[venus]

Thanks Greg an interesting read there:-)
There is only one answer to *What future has 'astronomy' in Australia?* and that is
summed up nicely by Professor Julius Sumner Miller's famous quote!
"Why is it so?"

[venus]

Astronomy is a valuable commodity to any community. Here is a section from that pdf file you kindly supplied.
Something interesting to ponder.....
• continuing and enhancing our capacity to undertake world-leading research;

• stimulating our capacity for innovation in science and engineering;

• training a new generation of graduate and postgraduate students in science and engineering;

• and, perhaps most importantly, inspiring and educating the public at large.