Horsehead Nebula

[Liz]

Was wondering how many people have seen the Horsehead Nebula in Orion, through their scopes??
Pretty sure I havent, but the books say its possible under dark skies, and a moderate scope.
Is it possible for ordinary folk :shrug:

[astrospotter]

Have seen it in 18" fairly easily if one is used to looking for something that is not there (dark nebula). Contrast is very faint. Must use H-Beta filter or you need a lot larger scope. I know people who have seen it in 12" but I had tried several times in an 11" sct with no luck. I covered my head in a blanket and stayed in that 'tent' for 15 minutes and so on even AFTER I was fully dark adapted, still no luck. But my observing skills were lower then so maybe an experienced observer or a younger person could see it ok in a 12".

Suggest you somehow use tracking scope and with stars get right on top of it using every averted imagination and a pre-printed out DSS image on paper then use every trick you know (jiggle scope and so on). Do NOT go back and fourth from computer screen image to this object, you need every bit of adaptation you can get to see this object.

Only time I have seen the area under the chin is in a 33" and that view was of course the best I could imagine from dark skies (21.7 mag/ArcSec) and H-Beta filter. I bet you could see it in a 33" without filter.

From my location it is about in same place as you see it only upside down (to you). I am at +36 degrees on Yee-Ol-Earth.

[astrospotter]

It should be mentioned that seeing it means you can detect a tiny bump of darkness extending into the H-Beta dim glow of IC434. You may notice it being slightly irregular due to the 'chin' hooking to the north if you get very lucky OR have fairly large amateur scope.

Don't expect one of those views we see in magazines all the time unless you have a 60" scope or larger ... (ideal for field work :lol:)

[ngcles]

Hi Liz,

If you can find a copy of the Jaunary 2009 edition of Australian Sky & Telescope, on P71 and following is a write-up of the Horsehead and a few other nearby objects that may prove to be of some assistance.

I've seen it in my old 25cm unfiltered but it is a tough ask in that aperture unless the sky is extremely dark & transparent -- particularly without a filter.


Best,

Les D

[Rob_K]

I've only seen it once, last month through tnott's 22" scope with H-beta filter and in pretty good dark skies (although not the absolute darkest). It was easy to see as an area of differing contrast, and while the general shape was there (or imagined? :P ) it was difficult to recognise any of the outline. The top edge of the horse's head was the closest thing I saw to an actual outline as we'd recognise from a photo.

Don't think I'll bother with my 4.5", LOL! Good luck anyway Liz, worth a try! :thumbsup: But there are lots of better things to look at - HH is really a photographic object and aside from the 'twitch' value of vaguely spotting it, it's a pretty poor cost/benefit ratio IMO!! :lol:

Cheers -

[lesbehrens]

i have seen it through my 16" dob. it did take time to find it. i was also using a h beta filter too.

[Liz]

Thankyou Mark, Les, Rob and Les ..... No worries, will give it a try, but sounds like you need a BIG scope/dark site/patience and and a filter. I didnt think it was an achievable task for a 10" ... as Rob says, more of a photographic target.
I will try and chase that article up Les, I must have it laying around. :)

[lesbehrens]

thats y i got the 16"dob. my 10"just couldn't do it for me and i think I'm in a good dark area. but it still was faint in he 16". i would say i passed over it a few time before i notice it all.
les

[pgc hunter]

I've seen it with my 12" dob and H-beta from my outer suburban backyard. It is not obvious that's for sure, the contrast between IC 434 and the background sky is something like the difference between satin black and flat black. The HH itself appears as a finger-shaped notch.

One good guide for the likelyhood of seeing the HH is the Flame Nebula (NGC 2024) and reflection nebula NGC 2023. If these are invisible or difficult, you can forget about the HH, it's much tougher.

[GrahamL]

We had a try last night with a 12" + h-beta and can't say I've seen any more than all my past attempts ,there is areas of dark and darker there I've seen before but it dosn't seem to ever have much of a shape to it .

[astrospotter]

Here is a fairly nice finder chart to stash away if anyone wants to seek out this low-contrast Barnard 33 horsehead someday. Since it is a new moon weekend but is raining where I am, seemed a good time to find this chart. Each gridline is 20' apart in this image (as seen in lower left).

It is not difficult to drop south 30 min from Zeta Orion belt star and notice the 3 stars forming a high angle. Horsehead is just south of the middle star. To me it is easier to see with a 20 min field first then try other eyepieces (always with H-Beta filter) to try to get more detail.

To get a 'traditional' chart make this into a 'negative' image and set to greyscale. I like the easy and still free Irfanview program for that sort of simple and common astronomy need. http://www.irfanview.com/

[Liz]

Thanks Graham. I did have a try in the 10" but no luck, but will have a go every now and then., you never know, it may jump out at some stage.

Thanks for that great chart Mark :thumbsup:

[Astro78]

I've seen hints of pink, bright green a plenty but no hint of the horsehead. Next scope in production i'm hoping will resolve. Think you need a really accurate mirror for these low contrast sights, rather than super huge but still 10-12+

[binofied]

I have seen it many times in my 16" binocular with two UHC filters. At star parties I have had several other members of the public see it as well. I needed to show them a photo first to let them see the right area and star patterns. You need to know your field very well or it is so easy to miss. Never been able to make out any hook just a definite dark blob in the right place. I have also seen it without filters, but it was much less obvious. Remember the binocular gives you a 40% contrast increase over one eye and better shape recognition. This makes it perfect for this type of object. It is about the same as a 22" monoscope.

[Waxing_Gibbous]

I've seen it once on a very clear night in a 10" Newt. Stumbled on it really. No filter, but had to use "averted vision" (looking out the corner of your eye).

[Kevnool]

16" and Hb filter can pick it out easily but remember also that if you cant see IC434 then youve got no show of seeing the horsehead neb.
The poor old neb is also now starting to take a dive to the western horizon.
Good luck.
Cheers Kev.

Cheers Kev.

[Vanda]

Would need to give my 120mm D Refractor a viagra to have any chance!

[mozzie]

trying for the neb tonight,bought grahams h filter and had no luck earlier in the week. the moons starting to rise a little later to i might be in with a chance tonight fingers crossed.if not later in the week :shrug:

[ausastronomer]

Hi Liz,

Let me repeat a post I made about this target a couple of years ago.

The difficulty with which it can be seen can change dramatically in the space of hours and also from individual to individual. You can take it to the bank that while I have observed it in scopes down to 10", it is a very difficult target in any scope under 16".

The ease with which it can be seen are dependant on many things:-

1) How dark the skies are.
2) How transparent the skies are.
3) How clean the optics in the scope are
4) How well baffled the scope is. This has a major effect on contrast.
5) How good are the optics in the scope. High grade optics yield better contrast than low grade optics, making it marginally easier to see.
6) Did the person use an eyepiece yielding a suitable exit pupil? 3mm to 5mm is ideal as this effects contrast and target luminosity
7) Did the person use a high quality eyepiece with good light throughput and contrast.
8) Did they use a filter. A H-Beta filter helps enormously and a narrowband or UHC filter helps a lot.

and last but not least and by far the most important.

9) How sensitive to RED light are the individual observers eyes? A very significant portion of the light emitting from the background emission nebula IC434 is at the red end of the spectrum and observers with eyes that are less sensitive to red light will simply not see it irrespective of the conditions, because they cannot see the background emission nebula very well.

I have observed it on countless occasions in my 18" Obsession and on some occasions felt that it was easily visible "to me" . I have then moved aside and let someone else have a look and the person cannot see it. Some of those have been exceptionally experienced observers. A beginner has then followed and seen it easily.

In a nutshell, sometimes it's easy, many many times it isn't so easy. It depends on many things.

Cheers,
John B

[Liz]

Thank you John!! Wonderful words of advice from the expert!! :thumbsup:
Will take in mind all your hints. I havent found it yet, but wont give up. ;)

[Kevnool]

Also the best time to observe the Horsehead is when its directly overhead as your looking through the least atmosphere.
Personaly i think its to late now ,look for next year.
Good luck and Cheers Kev.

[Lismore Bloke]

Thanks for the advice John. Your post explains why it is a tough or impossible target for some, but easier for others. I was with nightstalker (Graham) and glenc when we tried for it and Graham could see an area without much shape to it, whereas Glen has seen most of the HH's shape. I saw absolutely nothing. The Flame nebula seems to be similar. I have seen it much better on some nights than others. Transparency obviously plays a part. Thanks to Mark for the excellent chart. As Kev has said, it can wait until next year, there are much more interesting objects to see.

[ausastronomer]

Hi Kev,

I am glad you raised this point because it is something I forgot to mention. An experienced observer takes it as a given that you don't even try for threshhold targets until they have attained very good elevation. However, many less experienced people try for some of these difficult targets whilst they are still down way too low.

Cheers,
John B

[erick]

I now have my scope, and my H-Beta filter and the eyepieces and................ too late - I'll have to wait until next year! So be it! :)

[mozzie]

read the replies since my post yesterday and no i dont think i seen it last night had a good hour on it then lost it to the trees.i know its not the ideal time to see it but the challenge is there and thats what i love this weekend will be even darker so you never know????????
there was some outline to the neb but weather it was the horsehead i dont know!!!!!!!!looking at maps i no which direction the head will be so lets try again:D:D:D

[Kevnool]

I love adding things.
The more experienced will know but the inexperienced dont.
Take Zeta Orionis out of the field of view to get rid of the glare of that star then take a better look.
Then if you cant see IC434 then you got no show of seeing B33.
Cheers Kev.

[pgc hunter]

It's too late to observe the HH anyhow. Ideally it should be near the meridian for your best chances, but now by the time it gets fully dark, and allowing time for dark adaption, Orion is virtually kissing the horizon.

[mozzie]

but its still good fun trying and just bought the filter

[pgc hunter]

You're not going to get anywhere with Orion barely 15º above the horizon just as twilight ends.

[rlow]

We manage to observe the Horsehead Nebula twice quite a few years ago under dark skies in Malaysia. The first time we were using the Teleport 10 with 40XL and H-beta filter. I observe the whole figure with direct vision, while two of my observing buddies managed to catch a glimpse using averted vision. Another buddy could not see it at all. The second time I observed the Horsehead was with a 11" f/5 Astrosky dob using a 40 XW and Ultrablock filter (I didn't have the H-beta filter). I manage to see it with averted vision.

[Dean]

I've seen it with my naked eye... I was looking at Orion neb and this horse ran across in front of me with its head in the exact right position. It was amazing with excellent contrast :)