how many members out there own a cooled DSLR

[h0ughy]

I am about to delve into the unknown again and get a 40D modded and cooled from CentralDS, i was wondering how many other IIS members have a cooled DSLR?:shrug:

I already own a centralDS cooled canon 350D;):lol:

[gbeal]

Huff,
I know it isn't the thrust of your thread, and for this I apologise, but I am always wondering why people actually go to the trouble of cooling a DSLR, as opposed to using a simple OSC camera like the QHY8 or SX-M25?
Same chip even in most cases.
Gary

[Octane]

I just have a cool DSLR. :tonguepoke:

H

[dugnsuz]

I think it's "sticking with the devil you know" in my case - I know it's being wussy re CCDs as there's learning curves with anything new (DSLRs included) but I love the simplicity of Live View on my 40D. Framing and focussing frighten me with a CCD and my budget setup.
A cooled DLSR would be perfect for my widefield imaging needs.

Add me to the 'wannabe' list for cooling mods Houghy.

That said (devil's advocate time...), I wonder if the $1250AU +/- investment in cooling is worth it given that the 40D body can be had on ebay for roughly $500-600??? Given that I bought the thing originally for close to $2K when it first came out it would seem economically daft to spend more on technology which will be superceded very soon I would imagine!? Are 16bit DSLRs just around the corner????

So you can also add me to the ":shrug:" list too!!!!:P
Doug

back on topic...I know of at least 7 guys around the traps here who have Central DS or home cooling mods

[gbeal]

Cheers Doug, and I guess I sort of see where you are with them. But in my case, the Liveview is superseded by the ability to focus etc with the software, and that makes up for the lack of Liveview to me.
I tried using my Sony a700, a very good DSLR, but there is nothing in the way of software assist for it, and in the end I found focus to be the number one headache.
Each to their own, enjoy whatever you have, it is the time spent that is the part I enjoy.
Gary

[Lester]

Hi David,

I have a Astro 40D From Central DS, got it 18months ago. Although I know of a few that had to be sent back after the mod due to malfunctions, mine has worked well. I purchased the 40D from Central DS, only down fall was the manual was in Korean, no English. Downloaded the manual off the web.

Some said that there would be GST on such a camera purchased from overseas; but I didn't have to pay on its return. Don't know if this is normal, or just lucky.

[Garyh]

Well I have a cooled 40D, homebrew job but..-25 below ambient no prob.
Total cost of camera/filter with regulator etc was under $1000
Seems to work well, but if I had the extra money I would get a OSC ccd. Hopefully in the next year or two..something like the new QHY-9 color or a even bigger chip.
Like Doug mentions, the ability to do widefield shots with standard lenses is a advantage as well as the liveview. Don`t know how you go about stopping down a standard lens with a ccd but?

[Octane]

Gary,

You can trick the lenses. Put them on a DSLR, stop down to desired aperture, use the depth of field preview button and then take the lens off the camera.

H

[dugnsuz]

Nice tip H - I'm saving that for the future, Cheers
Doug:thumbsup:

[seeker372011]

I am in the cooled CCD camp so cooled DSLRs are not really of current interest , but came across this a short while ago -anyone know more about this ? scroll down to the bottom for pricing

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3415311/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

[Garyh]

Thanks H! that`s a nice trick to remember :thumbsup:
I`ll write that down somewhere

[h0ughy]

sorry h but Bert has the coolest DSLR of all

[Octane]

Dave,

That's not a DSLR, it's a Frankenmonster on a life support system.

H

[h0ughy]

well H get your facts straight before you go boasting like that, or the frankenmonster will get you. Sometime self ratings can be so overrated ;):P:lol:

[dugnsuz]

Found this on my travels...
http://www.starworksteam.com/it/coolingboxmk1
A tad expensive - $1500US at Opt
?? could be the future for warranty maintaining cooling ??
It looks huge too! But, carbon fibre so may be lightweight!
Doug

[Paul Haese]

The new range of cooled CCD camera at low prices has now really killed the DSLR is cheaper argument. I have a cooled CCD that I have loaned to a mate for the time being. I plan on using this with a Canon lens to do ultra wide field images at some point. It cost me over 3K to buy and get it modded.

I think that getting a cooled CCD is a better option now and the translation across to CCD is not as hard as some might think. I went the CCDstack route and just followed the tut until I wanted to explore some of the functions.

Get a cooled CCD and forget the DSLR versions.

[dugnsuz]

I'm seriously considering it Paul.
The next dilemma is whether to go OSC or mono for my widefield lens stuff.
I've enjoyed using the Ha and OIII clip in filters with my 40D - not true NB I know, but enjoyable none the less.
I'm loathed to lose that, but a mono 8300 chip + filter wheel and filter sets puts the price up considerably.
Doug

[Paul Haese]

Doug you won't believe how much of a difference a monochrome camera can really make to your images.

[Phil Hart]

i have a QHY9 and a cooled 40D..

no question that QHY9 produces better end result, but for wide field imaging with Canon lenses it's very hard to beat the ease and convenience of cooled 40D operating off a programmable timer release. liveview focus, no laptops, no software, no drivers.. just reliable, enjoyable, easily transportable imaging.

the QHY performs well, but it has given me a lot more frustration than DSLRs, so it also depends whether you're chasing the best possible result or just want easy enjoyable imaging as a hobby.

one other factor that is very relevant to me at the moment, is that with widefield imaging you tend to work at fast f-ratios. the sensors in CCD cameras are not necessarily mounted with the critical accuracy required, whereas i've never came across this issue with sensors in DSLRs (used to see the effect on film a lot though). i believe the sensor in my QHY9 is tilted (within spec, but not good enough for working at f2.8) but plan to do some more serious testing and will report results later.

short answer is that cooled DSLR is the winner for me for widefield (except narrowband) imaging with camera lenses.

phil

[Phil Hart]

other factors doug might like to consider..

getting lenses to fit CCD cameras can be quite an effort.. i had QHY9 camera and filter wheel connectors modified to reduce the distance between lens and sensor, then bought a Mamiya 80mm medium format lens and had adaptors made up for that. all adds to cost and tediousness compared to snapping on a canon lens made to work with a DSLR.

i've also not been 100% happy with the halos/colour fringing that i think results from the microlenses on the pixel sites. this has a big effect on DSLR widefield images but if anything it's worse with the QHY9. as always, it's a work in progress and more testing required..

[dugnsuz]

Phil - thanks for addressing many of my (unwritten!) concerns in your 2 posts, specifically those issues associated with mounting lenses on the CCD camera.
I hadn't assumed there would be any great difficulty in getting an adapter for my 2 Canon EF L lenses, but I was worried about the focussing distance with the same QHY9/CFW setup that you have (this is the mono setup I had been considering)

Also, I image solely from my backyard so transport convenience isn't an issue and I suppose by even considering this route from DSLR to CCD, I am chasing the best possible results from my imaging!

So my question is...Is the 16bit dynamic range afforded by CCDs noticeably superior to the 14bit Cooled DSLRs in widefield imaging?

Cheers
Doug

[Phil Hart]

The M54 thread on the QHY filter wheel is not that common.. I certainly could not find an adaptor to do the job and had to get one custom made (as well as reducing the thickness of the camera-filter wheel connector).

I'm not sure that 16 or 14 bits is the thing to worry about - a lot of other factors are more important. I've got some test shots that give a direct comparison.. will try to finish processing and post soon..

After a few months with both, I'm very impressed with the performance of the cooled DSLR for widefield work. But the h-alpha shots with the QHY9 are also appealing..

[dugnsuz]

I've been using Astronomik 12nm Ha and OIII EOS clip-in filters with the 40D recently and have blended their results with my RGB's or made synthetic RGBs - I'm quite happy with the results. Here's a Synthetic RGB I did of the Tarantula region (Ha=R,OIIIG=G,OIIIB=B)...
http://s327.photobucket.com/albums/k461/doug-robertson/?action=view&current=27.jpg

Though the colours may not be everyone's cup of tea - I love the drama of the results!!!

Although the DSLR isn't firing on all cylinders with regard to NB response/sensitivity, I don't think it lives up to the bad press some have given it.
Your praise for the Cooled DSLR has give me some Hart (pun intended):P

Doug

[h0ughy]

Thanks Phil for your input - thats why i like the cooled DSLR

[Phil Hart]

i've started a new thread for a direct comparison between QHY9 and 40D:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=60039

[Adelastro1]

A quick question - are the modded cameras still 100% usable in daylight for general photography or are screw on filters etc required?

[h0ughy]

filter required

[supernova1965]

Ha the only option missing was not owning a DSLR yet:sadeyes::D

[Octane]

Wayne,

You can use a UV/IR modified camera perfectly well for terrestrial use.

What you will need to do, however, is correctly white balance in post processing. This is a simple matter of either using a white balance card/disc and making sure you've got a photograph of it in the lighting conditions that you'll be shooting in so you can simply click on the card in post processing and use it to set your white point. With Canon's, you can ensure the card fills your centre spot in the viewfinder, take an image, and set custom white balance (Nikon's require the full frame to be filled with the card), or, lastly, you can just simply click on something which is white (neutral grey) in post processing to set your white balance.

I have found, in general, whilst using expensive white balance cards, gets your colours spot on, it leaves your images looking rather clinical and academic.

For a studio situation, this would be perfect, however, when you're trying to balance multiple light sources of differing types.

H

[troypiggo]

I bought one of the filters that were supposed to bring the WB on modded cameras back to what an unmodded one is. Rubbish. Still had to custom WB everything so you're better off just using no filter and doing the same.

After a little experimenting I found the custom WB settings (tint and temperature) to set the camera at that gives a pretty pleasing results without editing. Doesn't really mean anything because I shoot RAW, but means that if you chimp the images on the camera LCD they don't have that pinkish tinge, they're pretty close to what you want.

[dugnsuz]

Agree with what H and Troy have said regarding white balance issues, but if you're talking about using a cooled/modded DSLR for terrestrial use then I've heard there can be gradient issues. I recall Paul Haese commenting on this problem with his cooled 40D.
Paging Paul!!!!
Cheers
Doug:thumbsup:

EDIT...found the reference
http://paulhaese.net/40Dreview.html
Paragraph under "Working"

[Ian Robinson]

My 40D is neither cooled or modded.

Looks very easy to cool a DSLR if you think there is real benefit that can be gained over ICNR.
http://ghonis2.ho8.com/rebelmod450d16c.html

[Paul Haese]

Sorry just found this thread Doug.

I had some slight trouble doing darks with my 40D during daylight hours. I found I was getting a gradient near the bottom of the image. As it turned out it was caused from a slight light leak brought about by the cooling modification. The camera cannot be used for terrestrial use as a result but it does fine work at night. Not really an issue for me but if you only own one camera it may be cause for concern.

[jenchris]

Someone said to me that you can use a stored different shade whitebalance to restore daylight function, but I'm sure that they'd have incorpporated that into the camera if they could do it just with that. it may however improve the situation
Adding an IR filter would restore the situation no doubt though.
I voted that I had an unadulterated DSLR - but I haven't actually got it to hand, though it is paid for, should arrive quite soon.

[dannat]

i still can't see the value in 1500 for the cooling box - i will go looking for a small pelt in one of those cooling drink holders & fashion my own box i think - better yet i'll just shoot in winter:face::cold:

[jenchris]

Get a eutectic cell from a cup warmer for the car - the other side is a cooler - which can drop the temp by about 20C below ambient. They have a fan etc

[dugnsuz]

Those coolers are essentially what I got for $1K in a professionally modified form!!

But try rapidly cooling your sensor with them - the trick is cooling the sensor not the camera chassis, and that's where I see a major part of the value of this type of mod over the 'camera in a coolbox' method.
Granted, guys like Bert (avandonk) have great success with the coolbox method - but his cooler isn't a simple box with peltier cooler attached.

From web research it seems the most efficient methods employ some type of 'cold finger' on the sensor. The most linked to mod on the web (Gary Honis I think!?) using the cool box gear referred to above can achieve a temp drop of around 20ºC as I recall - but will take around 2 hours to get there.The Central DS cooled DSLR will achieve that drop plus more (approx 30ºC for me last night) in a couple of minutes - major plus.

But I'm really probably making excuses for my lack of DIY tech skills too - I don't think I could make an efficient cool box that I would be happy to stick my 40D in.

Other things of value over CCD ,for example, to me are...1.I don't have to radically change the way I have been imaging for years as it suits me, 2.Live View focusing - simple, 3.ability to use all my Canon EF lenses without adapters (custom made - expensive too!) - my imaging passion , 4.ability to frame and compose the image through the viewfinder and 5.compact nature of the Central DS design - I can't have a large heavy insulated box hanging off my lenses.
And, you can still use it as a normal but heavy DSLR - so it gives you an arms workout too!:P
And that concludes the case for the defence m'lud!

Doug

[jenchris]

How hard would it be to direct a stream of cooled air into the cavity of the camera?
If it has been past a cold cell, the humidity would be low so there wouldn't be condensate on the air stream.
a small stream of modulated temperature air across the face of the lens wouldn't be disastrous to the 'view' and the cavity would quickly cool to 20c below ambient.
The air could be returned to the cell for recooling - so the humidity would remain constant.
It could literally be two tiny air tubes attached to the camera and no weight. The cell could be hung onthe tripod!

[dugnsuz]

Time to take the jeweler's screwdrivers to that new 450D and find out Jenny!?
:P

[alan meehan]

I got to agree with Doug i went down the path of building a cooler box out of a warmer cooler and found all i could get out of it was a temp drop of about 9 deg and this took about a hour to do so,also by the time you sealed it all up it actually was quite heavy,and if you wanted to change any of the controls on the camera you had to open up the box andthen your temp rose not to mention you do get condensation inside the box water and elec dont go together.i brought mt 40d and had it cooled at central ds its compact and works brilliantlly cools down to-5 in minutes and comes with a external temp gauge.i should have just kept the box for cooling the beers.
AL

[jenchris]

Well it's a good job I asked the question then isn't it!
So, I'm not going to do that - looks like a full extent dark library coming up!!!!
Ok here's another preamble to idiocy and institutionalisation.
The camera adapter can be cooled by the method advanced above - when the mirror opens, the cool air rushes in and stops amp glow because the sensor is not getting warmer, it is getting cooler.
Presuming the adapter can be insulated, it will have enough cool stored for it to be a heat sink.
How's that?
Hopefully, the diagonal star prism won't end up fogged up by condensation - but that's another story - maybe double glazing????

[dugnsuz]

That's what I'm doing these days - the cooler seems to be more efficient than the specs on the Central DS website suggest. They say it'll cool down -18ºC +/-2º but it dropped from an ambient of 24ºC to -2ºC last night.

As the sensor heats up during use, the cooling only varies by about 1º over a 2 hour session of taking darks ie -2º at start of run, -1º at end.

Doug

[dugnsuz]

Update - very happy with my Central DS cooled 40D. Very easy to use - suits my widefield lens imaging perfectly. New camera behaves exactly like the old one! Cooling seems more efficient than advertised.Added approx 500g to weight of camera - no problem to HEQ5 Pro mount.
Very happy so far.

[Bassnut]

I think you do too. And specifically due to you, I think Im going to be a 5d mk2 owner fairly shortly :P.

[nebulosity.]

I cooled a 350D that I use for most of my imaging. Cooling is regulated and is able to easily sit on 35 degrees below ambient, takes about 5 minutes to drop the first 30 degrees and then about another few to drop the rest. Subs at max ISO are silky smooth :thumbsup:

Jo

[gb44]

I have a cooling box for my 350d. With my newtonian I get dew on the coma corrector buggering things up. So I modified the box by adding a rheostat to limit the cooling but I havent been able to really try it out.
One night the box froze the camera and it was inoperable but recovered okay.

[Astro_Bot]

As someone who admires your craftsmanship and attention to detail (what I can see in photos, anyway), I'm very interested in what gear/method you used to cool your DSLR, and how much it cost.

[nebulosity.]

Thanks Bot!

Check out this thread (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=110554&highlight=Super+cooled+mono+350d&page=2) for more info on the cooling, all up I think it cost me around $200

Cheers
Jo