Easiest galaxy to view ?

[Stu Ward]

I'm desperate to see another Galaxy, can someone tell me which is the easiest to spot with an 8" Dob

I've found some open clusters. Mars, Saturn and the Orion Nebula. But after that i'm just sortof scanning around and can't seem to find anything.

Maybe my inexperience is making me rush ? I'm not sure, but nothing is jumping out at me

Stu

[Wavytone]

At the moment... by magnitude:

M83, 7.6
Sombrero, 8.3
M49, 8.4
NGC 1291, 8.5
M87, 8.6
M60, 8.8
NGC 2903, 8.9
NGC 3521, 8.9
NGC 1316, 8.9
M66, 9.0
M96, 9.2
M85, 9.2
NGC 4725, 9.2
M105, 9.3
M84, 9.3
... all easy reach of an 8"... more ?

[supernova1965]

I can't resist getting you like I was got THE MILKY WAY GALAXY. But seriously try the Andromeda galaxy do you have a star map program like Stellarium

[Liz]

Dont worry Stu, there are heaps of galaxies that are great in 8" Dob. It was my source for a LONG time,and great views of many!!
Too cloudy up here to even know whats around, but will get back to you!!

[M54]

The Large Magellanic Cloud is the easiest to spot. It's a beautiful sight in a dark sky.
Having only 5 inches of aperture, it's a bit of a challenge hunting for the further ones, but I recently found M83 in Hydra and Centaurus A (in centaurus, north of omega centauri). so they shouldn't be too hard to find in an 8inch dob. but you'll need a dark sky.
Do you have any star maps?

[barx1963]

Centaurus A and M104 are probably the pick at the moment, followed by the 2 groups in Leo, M95, M96 and M105 and the Leo Triplet of M65 M66 and NGC 3628. The Messiers in this group are easy in 8" but NGC3628 is a harder get, but more rewarding as it is quite large and has prominent dust lanes that are easy to see under a dark sky. Later in the year try for NGC 253.

[mark3d]

I typed M83 in Stellarium and that should be relatively easy to find..

good thread, thanks, just what newbies need to venture beyond the planets and M42.

.

[mental4astro]

The Sombrero galaxy, M 104, by far the easiest after the Milky Way and the Magellanic clouds.

Very striking as being nearly edge on, its dark dust lane cuts an unmistakeable slice through one edge of the galaxy.

M 83 is face on to us, and is larger than the Sombrero, but it has a lower surface brightness, making it appear dimmer. But it has an unmistakably brighter central core.

M 104 and M 83 are visible from my place in central Sydney in 50mm binos. Try finding them with binos first. It will be easier to star hop with them as the field of view is wider and less stars to confuse with.

I'd love to see the Andromeda galaxy, but it is too far north for me. Too far north from the Gong too.

Galaxies, faint fuzzies, are on the main dim fuzzy objects, and inexperienced eyes might not quite pick them up first go. Take heart! Last year, I had a mate over with his 8" dob in my backyard, together with my 17.5" dob. All the galaxies viewed in my bid dob were ALL visible in his 8", only a little dimmer!

You have a powerful instrument there. Be patient. All will be revealed.

This is a link to a very good beginners star atlas that is available through one of the Stickies in the "beginners talk" forum page. Best if you have access to an A3 printer. It has heaps and heaps of stuff on it. Print up the pages, figure out how it works and take it out with you using a torch covered with red cellophane to help preserve you night vision. Dozens and dozens of galaxies listed:

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zs3t-tk/atlas/atlas.htm

Mental.

[[1ponders]]

And don't forget NGC4549 in Centaurus plus there are a swag of easy pick galaxies between Virgo, Coma Berenices and Leo

[Stu Ward]

Wow, thanks guys, what great replies whilst i was resting my eyes !!!

I'm sure the main difficulty i'm having is being able to read the sky.
I have stellarium and its wonderful, but i'm trying to find my way through the sky by using the major constellations as reference points.
eg

Looking at pollux and going slightly up and to the left, but its all guess work, as my eyes cannot see the faint fuzzies through the finderscope.

What would be the best eyepiece to see these Galaxies ?

I know i seem to be bombarding this board which are total noob questions, but thats because im a total noob !!!

Thanks again

Stu

[mental4astro]

Hi Stu,

First a cautionary note with the finder- unless you know where to look, what to look for, at a dark site and the object is bright enough, only then will you see a galaxy through the finder. The finder is only a guide to help with fine star hoping to the area where the object resides. A hard copy of a star chart comes into its own here.

As then the scope's field of view is much smaller than the finder's, use your widest view eyepiece first to help locate the object. Other than half a dozen galaxies, most are small fuzzy, underwhelming spots. And even the large ones are faint as galaxies have low surface brightness. The look nothing like they do in pictures.

Once you have the little sucker in place, you can then go about increasing the power on it. This serves the purpose of darkening the background skyglow and helps with contrast. But it also makes for a delicate image that demands attention- Not something to rush, our eyes need a little time to absorb the faint light and make out detail. Just be weary of cranking up too much power as the thing will move too quickly out of view. Medium power is a good next step. Moving a dob is a skill that develops.

Another note on observing is not to view faint objects directly. The most sensitive part of our eyesight surrounds our central vision. Look to one side of the object and let its light stimulate your eye for one moment, then 'magically' the object will appear brighter and with more detail. This is called "averted vision". It takes time to get the hang of it. Very soon it becomes second nature.

Try M104 first. It is up high enough around 10:30pm. Though it is in the constellation Virgo, try using Corvus as your stepping stones to it. M104 is really, really close to this easily made out small constellation.

Oh, and don't forget the magnificent globular cluster Omega Centauri. It is thought to be the remnant core of a galaxy long ago absorbed by our monstrous Milky Way. It is splendid in your 8", and it can take cranking up the power really well. It is located not too far from the Southern Cross. Its stellar population is markedly different from 'standard' globular clusters give away its true origin.

47 Tucana is another core remnant, which is located very close to the Small Magellanic Cloud (both Magellanic's are satellite galaxies to our MM), and both globulars are visible to the naked eye from a dark site, and easily pinged with the smallest of binoculars.

Here is where if you can get to a star party it can really help make sense of what I'm ranting about. Experienced eyes will help guide yours a little better in the field than on a screen.

[Liz]

Some supherb advice and targets below :thumbsup:
Yes, finding your way around the night sky is tricky, and takes time. You sound like you can recognize a few constellation, thats a good start. Perhaps sit outside one 'clear' night, with a star chart, and see how many you can find. Orion is a great start, so work outwards from there. When I first started, I had NO IDEA so drew some of the brighter star patterns, and that worked for me ;)
As Alex said, many of the galaxies are faint, so dont expect huge bright objects, apart from Magellanic Clouds, and Andromeda Galaxy. Galazies are great to hunt down when you know your way around a bit more.
Try for Omega Centauri and 47 Tuc in the south, as Alex suggested - they are amazing, and bright, and easy to find. Enjoy!!

[Suzy]

Stu, keep up the great questions. As a noobie too, i'm learning from what you're asking! The Book, "Astronomy Australia 2010" has been very helpful for me, along with a sky computer programme such as starry skies, which i print and take out with me for specific targets, and a planisphere. Comet Wild is looming around at the moment next to Saturn in Virgo- give that a shot. Around 11 (qld time) it's up about 38deg.:thumbsup: There are amazing clusters (wishing well, jewel box, and pearl) around Crux and Carina. Not to forget the Carina Nebula.

[pgc hunter]

My vote goes for M104 Sombrero Galaxy. It's large, bright and has a high surface brightness so will be easily visible even in moderate light pollution. Visually it's also more striking than face on spirals such as M83, M65/66, and ellipticals like M87, M49 etc.

[Starkler]

Spindle galaxy is good also for being small and bright and therefore easier to see in light polluted skies than larger diffuse ones like M83.

[Wavytone]

That list was from StarMap Pro on my iPhone, I selected "whats on tonight" and filtered for galaxies, in magnitude order :)

It's a neat thing to have this in the field. When I was more active 30 years ago, you had to plan all this in advance in the library, and take a list and an atlas with you.

[Miaplacidus]

Yes, the Milky Way, of course. But why stop at one...?

[Stu Ward]

An Update.

Had a good go tonight again, looking for some of the objects that have been recommended.
Unfortunately some of them start off in the Southern skies and my view to the south is obscured.
I also get significant light pollution from the East with the Port Kembla Steel works being around 6Km away.

I tried to find the Galaxies just off Chertan in The constellation of Leo, but i still think it was a little low in the sky and still in the light polluted part of the sky. I saw something "different" in the sky but could not develop the resolution to see anything significant.

So i concentrated on the clusters that can be seen around Canis Major and Orion as its a particular dark part of the sky from my house.

So i'll keep looking and maybe even take a drive out with my dob one night for a darker patch of sky.

Next question, how do you stop the Dob bad back ?

Stu

[astroron]

Next question, how do you stop the Dob bad back ?

Hi Stu, I suggest you build a platform to put you Dob on to raise it up a bit higher,and also get yourself a stool or an observing chair.
You will find you will enjoy your time at the eyepiece a lot better.

[Suzy]

I use a stool along with 2 yellow pages phone books, and remove and add them as needed, so i have height for 3 levels. Works well.

[Liz]

Stu - have you had a look in the General Astronomy area of IIS, then to Observational and Visual Astronomy - there are some thread on what to observe in Feb and March, and other interesting topics as well.

[Liz]

:lol: Good one Suzy, will have to give it a go;)

[erick]

Paul probably means NGC 4945. :D Yes, takes a bit of star hopping to find but worth it since it will be up high in the sky, early evening later in the year.

[Stu Ward]

I'm really struggling to find Galaxies guys :mad2::mad2:

I think i am looking in the right places, by using stars as reference.
I think that possibly the locations are too affected by light pollution, as they tend to be in the eastern sky and here in Wollongong we get the orange glow of Port kembla.

Although Sombrero should be NE enough i think.

So if it is not light pollution, am i looking wrong ?

Atm i'm trying to find 2 stars that the Galaxy falls between on finder scope, then i have a few practice runs by panning from one star to another using the FS.

Then i switch to a 15mm Plossl and Pan again, nice and slowly, but i've not seen anything that resembles a Galaxy

What i have seen is the faintest of smudges, like a slightly less black patch in the sky. If this is the galaxy, is light pollution my nemesis, am i imagining the artifact, or am i expecting too much and thats what i should be seeing ?

Stu

[[1ponders]]

thanks Eric. Slight case of Dislexya :P

[Liz]

It can be frustrating Stu ..... many are only faint smudges that you can see using averted vision. You need to be relaxed and comfy, and take your time looking thru the EP, they may be there and you dont realise it. :shrug:
Why dont you give the galaxies a miss for a couple of weeks, and check out some double stars, some of which are beautifully coloured, some cluster - bful open and globulars, and there are some decent sized nebula out there too.
Then head back to galaxies, after a bit more experience :thumbsup: ... you WILL find them!!
PS ..... if you so a search for 'best double stars' 'best nebula' and 'best galaxies' .... will get you some great info.

[Robh]

Stu,

Many of the brighter galaxies (some mentioned in this thread) can be spotted with large binoculars or a 4 inch scope in darker skies. Tracking them down there is so much easier as they stand out against the background sky. In any given list of popular targets, most galaxies will have a lower surface brightness than the typically bright open or globular clusters. With significant skyglow, the brightness of the sky will approach or exceed the brightness of the galaxy. This means they will appear dim or washed out- "the faintest of smudges" as you mentioned, or possibly invisible. If you are under urban or bright suburban skies, your problem is most likely too much light pollution. Your finderscope will be pretty much useless in actually spotting the galaxy, so rightly, you will need to star hop and narrow down the region your galaxy is in.
Your scope is more than capable of doing serious observation of any of the galaxies mentioned in the thread. Perhaps, you can locate a regular dark site, not too far away, that you and a few other keen observers can get to easily if you want to observe the galaxies better.

For your interest, checkout the Bortle Dark-Sky Scale ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bortle_Dark-Sky_Scale

Regards, Rob

[Rob]

Centaurus A (NGC 5128) is my favourite. It's relatively easy to find and even in a 6-inch newt it appears as a fuzzy cloud, with a dark band visible with averted eye vision (i.e. look a bit away from the object and you'll see it in the corner of your eye).

[Winter Wolf]

Yeah, Centaurs A is a great early galaxy. Can be a little tricky to locate however. I use Omega as a launching off pad to find it.

I also enjoy looking at M77 in Cetus. It is quite close to delta Cetus so it is easy to find.

Be patient with galaxies. They can be very very faint in light polluted sky.

[astrospotter]

A telrad is a wonderful thing for getting very very close to a target much of the time. If you have a program such as MegaStar or SkyTools or Starry Night they will draw the telrad circles. Because there are 3 concentric circles you generally can judge the position of local mag 5 or brighter stars nicely so that a fairly wide eyepiece will contain the target OR be able to be found fairly close at hand. If you have paper charts like Sky Atlas 2000 or pocket sky atlas (both excellent for bright objects) then use the Sky Atlas plastic telrad overlay OR make your own from clear plastic with the same pattern of 3 circles then lay it over your chart and bingo, easy field reference.

There have been great galaxy suggestions so I'll throw in a couple fairly bright galaxies that are way up high nowdays that are easy to find to the bunch mentioned. The Leo Triplet has M65 and M66 at mag 10.3 and mag 9.7 respecively AND are within 1/3 degree (20') of each other. As a bonus for at a nice sight the Ngc3628 is harder to detect due to surface brightness but this is only 30 minutes north. The nifty thing about these 3 is a telrad is simply pointed right between Theta Leo and the fairly bright star 5 degrees south-south-East because the Telrad sight is 4 degrees diameter on the outside edge.

Hope the above is not repeating anything said already.

If you like finding things manually a Telrad is worth every penny.

Happy hunting,
Mark

[Suzy]

I share your pain Stu, I'm still trying to find my first galaxy (esp. Sombrero). Everytime I say I give up, I wind up back out there again and again beating myself up again and again. :mad2: X 100. But we know the easy galaxies are out there, we just need to get a bit better at doing this stuff and I guess that takes time in which we will be rewarded soon enough, with the help of these kind people here.

[[1ponders]]

Well you aren't alone Suzy. If I'm trying to find the Sombrero I struggle most of the time. I know other nail it everytime, but I'm still challenged with it. Thank goodness for goto LOL

[Liz]

Hang in there Suzy, you are doing great!!
Hopefully you are seeing some bful objects while searching for the elusive galaxies.
As said below, perhaps try for Centaurus A (looks like hamburger!!) - its a bit more than a smudge, so easier to see. :)

PS .... as Paul says ..... I also take quite awhile to find it ... galaxies are elusive but rewarding little beggars!!

[mithrandir]

Think I'm in your crowd. I tried to get the Sombrero for the first time the other night. Polar aligned - mount said it was within an arcmin in RA and Dec, GoToed and synced to something a couple of degrees away (think it was Chi Vir).

Picked out the little group of stars near TYC 5531-1324-1. Got Sombrero into the guide camera but with the main scope not pointed in exactly the same direction I couldn't find it.

I gave up and spent the next half hour realigning the finder and guide scopes to agree where the centre of the FOV was. Maybe tonight will be clear.

[mic_m]

I can certainly empathise with the difficulty that beginners have in searching for their first deep sky objects (DSOs); like most amateur astronomers when I was starting out I had some difficulty in finding my first DSOs.

So, here is some advice to supplement what has already been given.

What a galaxy looks like through a telescope
I think that a large part of the problem for beginners in finding galaxies is that they don’t know what to expect from galaxies (or rather their expectations are too high).

Often, if a beginner has never had someone show them what they should be looking for and all they have seen to that point are Hubble images, it is no wonder that a galaxy might not jump out at them, even if they have in fact seen it!

To get a real understanding of what one can expect from galaxies in a modest size telescope it is useful to provide a visual representation of how a galaxy appears through eyepiece of such a telescope. This will help to accurately readjust ones expectations of what will be seen which will ultimately help in finding the object.

I have provided a link to a sketch by Jeremy Perez that provides a visual representation of the Sombrero galaxy (M104) in an 8 inch telescope: http://www.perezmedia.net/beltofvenus/archives/images/2008/img2008062101_M104_120Xlg.jpg (http://www.perezmedia.net/beltofvenus/archives/images/2008/img2008062101_M104_120Xlg.jpg).

In my opinion this is a close representation of how the Sombrero galaxy looks through an 8 inch dobsonain at a rural site. Decrease your computer screen contrast and brightness to get more of a feel for how the galaxy will appear a form suburbia. For me the most accurate representation is achieved by decreasing both brightness and contrast to their lowest level, but each computer screen will vary.

Magnification
Another key issue is to use the “right” level of magnification for viewing a galaxy. For finding an object low power often helps with searching the sky in the process of star hopping because the wide field makes it easier accurately match up your view with your sky charts. The chances are if you are just starting out with star hopping you may not be right on the object with the star hop but you will likely be close, so circle outward from that point with the main scope to find the object. This can take some getting used to in a reflecting telescope because the image is upside down and reversed, but if you make concentric outward circles you will not miss any space around the target area and your chances of finding that elusive galaxy increases.

If using a 25mm eyepiece with a 1200mm focal length telescope the resultant magnification will be 48x (1200mm/25mm), at this magnification the sombrero will look quite small, like a fuzzy elongated star. Once you find the object that you are looking for you can increase the magnification by inserting a shorter focal length eyepiece. Increasing the magnification increases the detail visible in an object and darkens the sky background (which provides more contrast in the image), so your view of it will improve with higher magnification. But this is only to a point. Eventually, when you magnify an object too much it becomes dim (the light from the object becomes spread out too much) and it will lose contrast. For an 8” dob a magnification of ~120x (a 10mm eyepiece for a 1200mm focal length telescope) will provide a good view of a galaxy like M104; similar to the sketch by Jeremy Perez above. However, as noted in other posts you will likely need to use averted vision to bring out the details (i.e. the dark dust band).

Observing time
With the moon becoming increasingly bright (it is now in the waxing gibbous phase heading towards the full moon on the 30th) you will have to wait until next month for a dark sky to make any serious observations of galaxies.

The best time to observe M104 will be next month during the new moon at around 11.30pm to 12am when it apaches culmination (crosses the meridian). Here it should be in clear steady air well out of any haze on the horizon and clear of much of the light pollution (the same goes for M83 and NGC5128).

There has been a lot of good advice on this thread about star hopping effectively and using a good star chart so the only other advice I would give is to reiterate those points that have been made.

Other interesting galaxies
In addition to the galaxies mentioned in the other posts M31 (the Andromeda galaxy) and M33 (the Triangulum galaxy) are quite easy to spot despite their low altitude. But you will have to wait for the early mornings (5am) of July to get your first view of these.

Good luck to all the beginners searching for galaxies. Let us know your impressions when you find something...

Michael.

[pgc hunter]

The Sombrero is somewhat annoying to find as there are no good naked eye stars within close range. I use Delta Corvus as the launch pad. From Delta, use the finder and scan directly north to a large triangle of magnitude 6 stars approx 3º North of delta, with the long axis oriented NE/SW. About a degree NE of the northeastern-most star of this triangle, lies a trio of two 7th mag and a 9th mag star. Within this triangle is another tighter triangle. This is known as the "stargate" asterism. Here I switch to the main scope using the lowest power EP and scan about 40 arc min NE until I come across an asterism known as "Jaws", which takes the appearance of a hammerhead shark. About 20 arcmins SE of this asterism lies the Sombrero.

The hunt is well worth it, the Sombrero is one of the best galaxies in the sky for small scopes.

[erick]

Here is a picture of SAB's starhop.

Getting from Corvus to the triangle "arrowhead" is the hardest step - it is further from Corvus than you expect.

[Kevnool]

Your pic Eric also shows the asterisms jaws (the two bright stars) correct me if i,m wrong please and Stargate (the 3+1 representing the triangle).
Just a bit of trivia.
Cheers Kev.

[Kevnool]

heres a position of the Sombrero and others from a wider field of view as well.
Cheers Kev.

[figgylion]

Hey Stu
I'm in the 'Gong too (Mt St Thomas) and have the same LP problems as you, the view to my south is pretty much non-existent. The LMC & SMC are all but invisible to me
I use an 8" Dob as well and I can tell you that the only Galaxies I've seen (relatively) clearly are the Leo Triplets and The Sombrero, the latter of which was a real WOW moment for me.
I'm not really focussing on Galaxies until I can find a good dark site.
As has already been posted, check out Omega Centauri, still blows me away every time I take a look
Also if you've got a bit of cash to splash, the Argo Navis is a wonderful piece of equipment to add to your Dob and makes finding the fainter objects much easier.

[mental4astro]

Binoculars, folks! Binoculars!

They are so overlooked!

I live in deepest, darkest (lightest sky) Sydney, and I've used my 10X50's to see the Sombrero and M83 from my back yard.

I use my binos all the time at home. Impossible to find anything by star hoping otherwise. I can see Omega Centauri naked eye from home, but not 47 Tuc.

Even 25mm binos will show most stars on a basic star chart, if this is your form of object hunting. They always show correct image orientation, so no mental gymnastics at the finder.

The chart posted by erick is the way I find the Sombrero! Funny thing is it is always easy to find it in the binos, but can be a bugger through a scope. Depends on the prevailing seeing conditions too. Last month, and with three different scopes (13.1" f/4.5, 10" f/5 and 8" f/4) the binos killed all three scopes in ease of seeing it (poor seeing too). The 8" showed it the easiest of the three scopes.

[erick]

Stepping back from M104 (Sombrero Galaxy) which is on the right of my diagram:- First stop "Jaws", second stop "Stargate", third stop - my personal asterism - the "arrowhead" :D - then back to two bright stars of Corvus.

[WadeH]

First lesson, galaxies visully look nothing like what you expect!! Those faint smudges Stu are probably your first time galaxies.

Essentials are dark skies, patience, a Telrad is fantastic used with good star charts and an eyepiece between 13mm and 25mm. Dont fall into the trap of thinking you need lots of magnification in fact the opposite is often the case. I have the same size scope as yourself and most of my galaxies are seen using this range.

Keep at it.

[ManOnTheMoon]

Dont worry stu I havent seen any galaxies with my new 8" Skywatcher DOB yet either! I couldnt even find omega centurus last night and I seen it heaps of other nights but not last night! I wanted to see the galaxy thats nearby and I got frustrated and left it and watched saturn instead. Saturns moons are now on the right side and I think Titan is slightly higher and further out than the rest? It looks very clear and the rings are sharp but sideon in my 15mm ep with a 2x barlow:)

[Liz]

Good on you MAtt!! Saturn is a wonderful target, apart from being easy to find, it is a delight. Mars is also easy, but can be a disappointment for some, which minimal detail seen, but hey, its Mars!!
Shame about Omega Centauri - try again tonight. There will be atime soon, that you will find it easy each time, so dont worry.
Have you seen the Orion Nebula - stunning!!! The 'blur' in the sword of Orion. After you find it, chnage your EP for a closer view. :thumbsup:

[astroron]

Hay Matt, come and join us on Saturday at Cambroon and we will show how to find lots of stuff, in your telescope and Naked eye
We would like you to join us .:)
See the Cambroon sticky or go to the Cambroon website for directions.
http://cambroon.gtbastrowise.com.au/
Cheers

[stattonb]

m31 is the easiest in my opinion.

[mithrandir]

M31 never gets more than 15 deg altitude here, so it is hardly ever above the treeline. As they are the neighbour's trees I can't even prune them.

Being 5 deg further north you'll have a better view.

[Suzy]

I'm bumping this thread up because it is filled with so much helpful information regarding finding galaxies & esp. M104 (The Sombrero galaxy), than lay buried and forgotten.

I think this thread will help lots of people. :)

[Stu Ward]

Hey Suzy.
Bringing this one back from the dead has made me realise how far I have come, but still humbled when i think how far i have to go in this hobby !

Stu

[SkyViking]

Something that helps enormously is to make sure your finder scope is precisely aligned with the centre of your main scope's field of view. Then you can star hop with the finder and point it exactly at the spot where your target should be according to the star map, and once you switch to the main scope at least you'll know you're looking at the exact spot where that elusive smudge of light should be :)

Depending on the construction of your finder scope and holder it may easily come out of alignment, especially if you transport the scope around, so it's something to watch out for.

[alistairsam]

Hi,

what would the difference be visually when using the same eyepiece, say 25mm between an F4 scope and an F6 scope?

would the object be slightly bigger in an F6, but will there be a difference in brightness in an F4 as its a faster scope?
do faster scopes gather more light? i don't really understand how it makes such a difference in astrophotography as it reduces required exposure time dramatically.

[pgc hunter]

Assuming the same aperture and eyepiece, you'll get a lower magnification and wider field of view with the F/4. If it's a newt, you'll also be seeing coma at the edges of the FOV that won't be even remotely as obvious in the F/6. Faster scopes don't gather more light than slower ones, that is entirely a function of the aperture.

[astro_nutt]

I agree with you Suzy..the more the merrier, so I'll add my piece!!
My first "big" scope was an 8" dob. It gave me views of the heavens that left me in awe for many years. But the best thing is does was to teach me how to use it!! I learned very quickly that it needs a careful pre-check before you start viewing. Nothing serious, but, a few simple checks does make a diffrence.
Check your finderscope. Are the lenses clean and the finder adjusted so that the stars look like dots? (or close enough to it!)
Collimation. And I mean the Focuser to the OTA. If you place a laser collimator in the focuser and the beam shifts on the primary mirror when you adjust the focuser in or out, it means the focuser is not squared with the OTA and the image will shift slightly.
As you pan the sky, stop and close your eye for about 10-15 seconds, then you might get a glimpse of a faint whisp before your eye adjust to the skyglow.
I hope this helps.
Cheers!