Frustrated newbie

[Owyman]

Hullo, I'm a newbie who just bought my first scope after much careful research and consideration. I mostly was enthused about getting good views of the planets so I sought out reviews of products within my budget range (about $250) which included promises of good planetary viewing. I eventually decided on the Skywatcher 130 x 900 eq2 from Andrews Communications which seemed amazingly powerful for the money. As I said I did my research and found people saying wondrous things about scopes far less powerful than my eventual choice so I eagerly anticipated sensational results from such a relatively powerful device. Alas my grand look at the planets yielded nothing more than mere tiny specks barely larger than my own eyes could see. Needless to say I'm somewhat disappointed and dumbfounded. I can see the moon and terrestrial objects clearly so I dont think it's a technical issue (i.e. colimation or unclean mirrors or lenses etc.). Maybe I'm an ignorant novice but I believe it's an issue of magnification since the advertised specs for the thing promised 130x magnification, the lenses included were only 10x and 25x. If anyone can give me some enlightenment about why my expectations aren't working out it would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

[sheeny]

G'Day Owyman,

Welcome to Iceinspace.

Sorry you're disappointed with the performance of your scope. There are a couple of things to note.

The 130x magnification is the absolute most you can expect from your scope, but to gte it you will need the appropriate eyepiece, and to use in a satisfying way you will need good / excellent seeing conditions.

Your 10mm EP will give you 90x magnification and your 25mm EP will give you 36x magnification (900mm/25mm = 36).

The seeing conditions, we have much less control over unfortunately. "Seeing" is the steadiness of the atmosphere. At high magnifications you will see the sky moving and waving about. The more it moves the worse the seeing, the steadier the better. Bad seeing blurs what you can see and image (if/when you get into imaging).

Another factor that may adverse affect your viewing is scope cool down time. If your scope is still warm when you look through it you will see distortion and blurring like bad seeing even if the sky is good. This is cause by thermal currents in and in front of your scope. Set it up early and allow it plenty of time to cool as the temperature drops before you start viewing. The serious guys here do a lot of observing in the early morning hours (when the seeing is best) and have their scopes out all night to cool, and the imagers embed temperature probes in their scopes and actually monitor the difference in temperature between the scope and the air.

Lastly, expectations may be another factor leading to your disappointment. You should see craters and formations on the moon, no problems. You won;t see any features on Venus, but you may be able to make out the phase (shape of the illuminated part). On Mars, I doubt you'll see much detail, it is just so small. Jupiter you'll see the 4 Galilean moons and hopefully transits of them maybe, and in ideal conditions you should see the the north and south equatorial bands. Saturn of course you'll see the rings.

I hope that helps.

Al.

[Liz]

:welcome: Owyman

As Sheeny says, expectations can lead to disappointment. You see these gorg pics of the planets taken with big scopes and expensive cameras, and when you look yourself, it is small in the eyepiece, but still exciting!!
At the moment, later in the night, Mars and Saturn are visible. Your scope should show some detail on Mars, but as Sheeny says, it depends on the conditions. Its better viewing the planets when they are higher in the sky, away frokm the mucky atmosphere lower on horizon.
You should see some dark makings on Mars, and hopefully a polar icecap. You need to look through the eyepiece for awhile, and not a 5 second look - more detail pops out the longer you look. The rings of Saturn are also visible, though are still pretty edge on.
A 5 mm eyepiece will give you stronger mag for the planets, or a barlow and your 10mm. Good luck!!
You may have to wait for a few days for Moon not to be in the sky when viewing - darker the better ;)

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Owyman,

Dont be disappointed just yet, that is still a VERY nice little scope, even better version than the almost exactly the same version I have, but better.

You WILL be able to see details on the planets with that scope, but you will need a 2 x barlow at least to make them out. The theoretical maximum of the scope is about 260x magnification and this would be achieved by doing the following maths equation.

Focal Length (FL) / Eyepiece FL (EP) = Magnification

Therefore, to get 260 x on your scope, you will need the following eyepiece (or thereabouts) a 7mm with a 2x barlow (a magnifying lens) as the equation works out thus;

900 / 7 = 128.57 x 2 (the barlow) = 257.14 X magnification.

Now with the EP's you have, you get 90X on the 10mm and 36X on the 25mm EP. With the 130mm aperture you have, this wont show much details unless you get closer.

My advice is to buy a GSO APO 2.5x barlow fom Andrews for $49 which will give you a range of 36x, 90x (the 25mm with the barlow and the 10mm by itself), and 225 X by using the 10mm and the barlow. The reason I recommend this is because I have one of these and its fantastic value for money and I use it all the time.

Keep in mind also, that the seeing of the time affects how much you can see and COLLIMATION is the most important factor for you.

Why not check out your local astro club and ask to look through other's EP in your scope for reference. You will probably will find the scope's not exactly collimated like you thought.

I belong to the WSAAG club and can show you how to drive your scope and let you try my 2.5x barlow and all my other goodies on your scope if you can make it up to Linden in the mountains for a viewing night. PM me for details of when I am going to be there (or rock up anyway, we always get a good turn out and the club members are VERY helpful) or see wsaag.org for more details.

I hope this helps, dont get down with that scope, its a MUCH better version of my first scope and I still have mine and use it too, even though I now have a 12" Skywatcher dob as well.

Cheers

Chris

[leon]

This is why it should be banned, :mad2: advertising a scope of that size being able to magnify some ridiculous view is always going to be disappointing to a new person. :sadeyes:

This is why so many scopes end up in the cupboard forever. :sadeyes:

Leon :thumbsup:

[lacad01]

Hi Owyman, lots of great advice given already. Don't give up! No disrespect to you mate, but just wondering whether you were actually viewing planets at the time, could it be that possibly you were off slightly and focussed on bright stars only?? Are you using any star charts or even a planisphere to track down objects.
cheers :)

[Screwdriverone]

Also, I would like to point out that the 130 x 900 refers to the aperture and the focal length of your scope, NOT the magnification factor. The 130 mm is the size of the primary mirror diameter (5.1 inches) and the 900mm is the focal length (the distance the light travels through your scope from the opening at the front, off the mirror to the secondary and then onto the eyepiece).

You might have interpreted these numbers as being pretty high and therefore the views would be like the internet images you see. I highly doubt that the staff at Andrews would have talked up that scope overly, even though its a very nice beginner's scope and is capable of seeing details on the planets, my experience is that they wouldnt give false expectations from the lengthy conversations I have had with Luke and Lee.

For the record, the Skywatcher 5 inch scopes (including my short tube Catadioptric one) are more than capable of seeing details in DSO's like M104, M31, the Leo triplet and Centaurus A etc and can see cloud bands on the planet Jupiter and Saturn as well as features on Mars. I know, coz I have one and have seen them and even taken modest webcam images of them. Collimation and a dark sky are the most important things. Get that right and you will go back to the feeling of having a bargain and be amazed at just how many things are in reach of that modest sized scope.

I have had people comment on M104 (the sombrero galaxy) in my scope and say they couldnt beleive it was so clear and bright in only a 5 inch reflector.

Again, take it to a club viewing night and let others give it a once over and help you tweak things and you won't fell like this for long, trust me.

Cheers

Chris

[bartman]

Hi Owyman,
I also was a bit disappointed when I used my scope for the first time ( a few months ago). I did the same as you and asked why. I have bought a barlow and other eyepieces and now on good nights can see a lot more than before.
I'm more interested in imaging than viewing. I have had some disappointments with the photos I've taken but I'm persevering!!!!! ( and getting some goodish results now after lots of advice from the good people here on the ISS forums!!)

And thats all I have to say.....Persevere, read the advice given, and one day you'll see a sight that will make you step back from your scope and go "WOW I nailed it!"

Cheers
Bartman

[Owyman]

for your tolerance of the follies of a newbie and especially an appreciative thanks for your encouragement: a fairly important factor at the moment as I'm a little overwhelmed by the abundance of technical aspects I need to get a handle on if I'm to succeed. Time and patience and persistence are going to be required; your words of encouragement will keep me going. Thanks to one and all for sharing your time and wisdom, I shall study each post and try to learn from and apply the information and hopefully progress. Little by little at the moment more than likely as each new technicality and piece of jargon presents another challenge to such a newbie. I shall report back as I learn and hopefully become more capable. Thanks again, be assured your words are indeed invaluable to a novice such as I.

[hulloleeds]

My brother has the 130 x 650 skywatcher from andrews. He might have paid a similar price to you, though.

His is right on on par with cost/performance scale compared my dob. It doesn't seem any worse than my dob in any way, bar the fact it can obviously not see as well / magnify. In my opinion, he got what he paid for. I don't mean that negatively, I mean, he got an ok scope, limited by its size.

I honestly think this should be a sticky on a beginner forum such as this because it comes up time and time again and it came up for me. I believe it would save a lot of newbie surprises.

Think twice about buying a reflector if you are primarily expecting to view large, amazing images of planets. It's a trap! *

I'm underwhelmed by the size of planets in my 12 inch. You can see a decent amount with these scopes, it's just that for a beginner, it's a mere dot (particularly in a smaller reflector such as yours) and you're not attuned to moving past that fact. You have a focal length of 900, I have, what.. 1500. I'm not even seeing twice as large images to you, and you paid a quarter of the price. Even a 16 inch dobsonian for 2500 has a focal length of around 1800. So you drop 2500 (ten times your price), expecting amazing planetary views and you find you've got twice the size as a $250 telecope (maybe not the quality of view, of course but the size is definitely what throws the newbie like me off).

* more experienced chaps are going to point out that it's going to be difficult to obtain large images of planets, period - but I think I can speak for we, the newbiescent when I say, it's underwhelming.

[michaellxv]

Owyman,

Hang in there, there is lots you will be able to see with your scope. I started about a year ago with an 80mm refractor. I drooled over the bigger scopes but like you had a budget to stick with.

It was a big thrill to see Saturn and it's rings for the first time. Even though they were edge on you could not miss it. Then Jupiter and 4 moons, watching them change position from night to night. I can see dark bands across Jupiter so you should too.

There is plenty of other cool stuff up there well with range of our scopes. Lots of clusters and nebulae. Sure, they don't look like the photos or match the view through a big Dob, but seeing with your own eyes is something special.

Have you looked at the moon? I mean really looked at it. There is a lot more than just a few craters to see. Full moon is not the best time to look. But over the next few nights look along the edge of the moon (the terminator) then you will see some magic.

:welcome:

[el_draco]

You got sucked in by th hype to a point, but you are not alone. With the exception of the Moon, Jupiter and Saturn, you are going to struggle seeing much of anything on the planets, but finding them is fun in itself.

The glossy advertising is just that, relates little to reality. With any scope though, the planets are a relatively minor attraction compared to what is visible in the wider scheme of the night sky. I strongly advise you to get a decent atlas and start hunting out other deep sky stuff.

The Southern skies are particularly rich and there are many beautiful things to be seen with a telescope of your size. Its definitely a patience game, and I strongly advise you to get in contact with your l;ocal amateurs astronomy group. They'll teach you a great deal.

Dont give up to soon.

Rom

[DiamondDust]

Hi Owyman, Michaellxv is right. There's loads of other stuff up there to be amazed by. Download a couple of star charts (free), for your next birthday ask for a subscription to Australian Sky and Telescope and login to IIS as often as possible. You've already got the enthusiasm, in time the rest will come. For now just explore the possibilities with your existing equipment then when you can afford it, after researching the advice in these forums, you'll know what you need. Be patient, you have the universe waiting.

[mozzie]

hang in there weve all bought scopes expecting the world and being very disappointed its part of the learning process.those that stick with it are rewarded later with spectacular sights those that dont collect dust in the garage

[stevoggo]

Hi Owyman,
I am new too ...got a scope last Christmas (2009)...and I too was a little dissapointed when i first looked through....but .. i have since discovered there is a little more to it (for me) than mere images....
First piece of advice is get to a star party or local club...watch other astronomers do it...
The second piece of advice will be obvious after that.....get a chair....i was trying to observe for ages before i realised I needed a chair to sit in and wait for the right time to look through the eyepice (you may want a couple of beers to help pass the time...astronomy seems a lot like fishing in many ways!! ha ha)...(i have since made the astronomy chair in the projects section of this website which makes it a lot more enjoyable to observe from)
third piece of advice..read a little about space and stars and planets....many times what you are looking at is a faint blur or smudge...but I find if i know it is a galaxy with a million stars in it it is much more satisfying looking at it. Or finding out what galileo was able to deduce from the movement of the stars and planets etc with a telescope much worse than yours...(there are a lot of free resources to help you learn about space stuff...I really enjoy the SETI institute radio shows....www.radio.seti.org )
Fourthly.....sit in your chair and look at the stars with your eyes...its enjoyable to become familiar with the sky at night...associating seasons with constellations....knowing where and when planets appear...connecting with ancestry or thousands of years who have looked to the sky and wondered.
Thats what I enjoy...It sort of connects you to the bigger picture......
Stick with it
Steve