Southern Cross reversed on flag!

[astro744]

Anyone else notice the Southern Cross reversed on the Australian flag at the Fromelles ceremony? (The one on the flag pole).

Ten News had a closeup that showed a stitch down the centre of the flag and to me it looks like the right (Southern Cross) side was reversed when stitching the two halves of the flag together.

Whatever the reason someone, anyone, SHOULD have picked that up before it was flown. Did we provide the flag or the French? Anyone know?

[Inmykombi]

I have tried searching for the news but cant find it.
Can you post a web-site so I can have a squiz.

geoffro

[PCH]

There's an interesting short article about it here, but no sign of the offending flag :thumbsup:

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/poignant-fromelles-ceremony-for-reburial-of-ww1-fallen-20100131-n600.html

[astro744]

Right at the begining of the clip you can just see it. The fifth star in the Cross is on the left (should be right).

The best footage was on Ten News (close-up shot). I'm searching the web for more videos and I'll post a link if I find any.

http://uk.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=35584473&videoChannel=75

Press pause immediately after the Reuters music and logo end.

I'm trying to find where Ten News get their news bideo from as they had the best footage.

[leinad]

Fullscreen zoom here, certainly looks odd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haj6ei8mD60

[Screwdriverone]

Quelqu'un aurait dû leur botter le cul pour cette


Cheers

Chris

[CarlJoseph]

That's totally strange. Here's a snapshot of from the YouTube vid.

[Lumen Miner]

Ummmm, it's not just the southern cross guys, the whole flag is totally off.

We have 5 states? Thats a pentagon.
:rofl:

[multiweb]

:lol: I reckon the first part of the video must have been mirrored. They often do that in still shots too when working out composition and other stuff.

[CarlJoseph]

Can't be. Even if they mirrored it, the original would still be incorrect. The 5th star should be on the outside edge of the flag - furtherest from the union jack. Mirrors shouldn't change that position.

[Screwdriverone]

I knew you would have been the first to comment on my quote Marc!

Cheers

Chris

[multiweb]

Couldn't help it. That's the kind of comment my mum would tell my brother or myself if we got on her wrong side. Nearly correct spelling too. ;)

[bartman]

"Quelqu'un aurait dû leur botter le cul pour cette"

TRUE!

[michaellxv]

That's disgracefull. I'm surprised there hasn't been more fuss made in the media.

[bartman]

Does anyone know where we could send this post too? Ie some media outlet that would take on this discovery.

[CarlJoseph]

The Commonwealth/Federation Star is indeed correct on the flag, so the Southern Cross orientation seems to be the only wrong thing about this.

Here is a better shot of the flag where you can see all 7 points of the Comm/Fed star.

I also have a few media savvy friends so will see what coverage I can muster through them.

[astro744]

No it's not a Pentagon as it definitely has 7 points so that part is correct. The image of the flag I have has a distinct seam down the middle and my guess is the right hand side was sewn together reversed.

As I said last night, Ten News had a close-up in their 5pm news yesterday but they did not comment on the flag.

So far I have notified:

Today (Nine) - automated response saying thanks but we cant read every e-mail.
ABC2 Breakfast - no reply to e-mail.
Local Radio - too late to bring up in morning show.
Australian War Memorial - said to contact Veteran Affairs.
Veteran Affairs - said to contact Department of Defence.
Department of Defence - said I was incorrect but I was entitled to my opinion. They gave me a special Fromelles 1800 number.
Left a voice message with this number but no reply.
Sent e-mail to local newspaper but no reply.

Also rang Ten News in Sydney and they said they would look into it, but nothing on today's 5pm News.

My main concern is that we are flying and incorrect flag. How embarrassing!!!

Soldiers are being buried under the wrong flag.
Who supplied this flag, Australia or France? If Australia, how many others are there like it? Where are they made?

I cannot post the image I captured due to copyright (Ten footage) but there is enough evidence online to show the incorrect flag.

I was most surprised with the DoD response basically saying I was wrong and they couldn't have possibly got it wrong. It too puzzles me that no one at the ceremony saw the error. Perhaps being an astronomer would help but still it is our flag and when so many people are debating on whether to get rid of the Union Jack, we cannot even get the Southern Cross part right!

I'm not going to let this go until someone recognizes the error. I started doubting myself but each time I examined the image I knew I was correct. There is no way a normal flag could display the Southern Cross this way without the Union Jack also being reversed.

[CarlJoseph]

Well done Astro. Let me know where I can apply some pressure. I've posted it on my blog (http://carljoseph.com.au/blog/2010-02-01/a-backwards-australian-flag/), facebook, twitter, etc.

I might give some of those places a call tomorrow as well. If they get enough comments then perhaps they'll pay attention. :shrug:

[astro744]

Thanks. I finally got in touch with the editor of the local paper and they are likely to run with the story overnight if they find enough evidence.

I kind of got the feeling all day that no one really cared that the flag was portrayed incorrectly. Makes me wonder why we want to change it!

I guess the RSL would be interested too but I'll see what happens overnight.

[CarlJoseph]

Great work. Here's hoping they run with it. Which local paper?

[Lumen Miner]

"We have examined the footage sir and you are incorrect. Please see extrapolated image as proof"
It's a conspiracy!

There's got to be a way to get this out there! Who do the KFC and Hey hey crowd call, to get such instant coverage on indecent affairs like these?

[astro744]

Now that picture is not helping the cause.:)

I was told I may be insensitive to Fromelles family members and after a restless night's sleep I am still of the belief if I were a Fromelles family member and I saw a fake flag I would be quite outraged that our governement authorities would allow this happen.

Yes the timing could be better, but it makes me wonder how many other fake flags are out there and I would really like to know who supplied this flag.

[UK1]

I just got this from the flags of the world page and the stars are wrong

[Screwdriverone]

Hi Marc,

Gotta love French cussing, sounds great, what's the line from The Matrix...."Like wiping your arse with silk, I love it"

I would love to say that I did it myself but :sadeyes: Thanks google translator...

Cheers

Chris

[Jabba]

I just noticed this thread and dam thats pretty disgraceful :/

[astro744]

OK calm down everybody (including me).

I was offered a possible explanation which I am yet to confirm. It is possible the flag was made by local Fromelles children and even though it may be incorrect it is now 'special'. If so case closed.

As I said I will confirm if this is the case. If it is an Australian issue flag then there are some serious problems somewhere.

[Octane]

Zak,

That sounds highly suspect.

Unfortunately, it will be difficult to prove.

H

[Vartigy]

Special... like a "whoops no one checked the flag before we hoisted it"? or a "whoops we cant about-face and apologise for so blatant an oversight" ?

I wonder if this actually holds any ceremonial significance, military burial under the wrong flag?
I know there are some pretty strong and thick traditions and customs in the military, but I'm unsure of how far they go.

[Outbackmanyep]

Kind of reminds me of Cathy Freemans suit at the 2000 Olympic opening ceremony where they put the olympic rings logo upside down......pity they can't turn the flag inside out to hide it!

[Roobi]

Yes that front half of the flag has definatly been reversed, or sewn on backward. As im sure evryone knows, of the two main outter stars, the one on the right (not sure what it's called sorry i'm a noobie) is higher than mimosa, so that image posted by lumen miner has been photoshoped. Afro boys must be the original as even tho its reversed, everything is correct as opposed to lumen miners, the smaller star has been moved over... A cover up, hmmmm i wonder.

[Roobi]

P.S. hope that made enough sense.:)

[TheDecepticon]

I dunno how right this is, but it looks better than the one they're flying.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://home.vicnet.net.au/~rasigsau/images/australian_flag.gif&imgrefurl=http://home.vicnet.net.au/~rasigsau/australian_flag.htm&h=297&w=475&sz=7&tbnid=dEbuXG43KVHcfM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Daustralian%2Bflag&usg=__EVWPtcI6k4qh8c84lWABvNSAIys=&ei=tm9qS4G_HZWXkQX0-oHxAw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&ved=0CAkQ9QEwAA

:thumbsup:

[Roobi]

yeah that ones correct im pretty sure.

[Barrykgerdes]

I looked at the beginning of the video and yes the cross is the wrong way for that side of the flag.

But what would you expect the flag was probably out sourced from China. They have attached the southern cross part on the wrong way around.

Baz

[multiweb]

Actually after a bit of research I found out that the sawing machines in France are left hand drive, hence the offset to the side on the small star.

[TheDecepticon]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[CarlJoseph]

I need some good astro-eyes on this one. I'm sure I am not seeing things but more analysis of various frames of the footage will help.

Here is a response I received from an RSL person.

---------
On the surface this does appear to be so, but logic suggests no-one could make a National Flag with such an error. A more careful examination of the screen shot reveals that the flag is fluttering and folded across the vertical centre line, creating an impression that the Epsilon Crucis (5th star) has moved towards the jack.

You could pursue this further with the Media division of the Defence Department but I seriously suggest that it is an illusion cause by the wind moving the cloth of the flag.
----------

I have even taken a piece of material, marked the positions of the stars on it and tried to fold it until it looks backwards. I can't do it without distorting the entire constellation significantly or hiding one one of the vertical stars behind a fold.

[CarlJoseph]

Nightstalker, my truly sincere condolences for your loss and the loss of your grandmother's brother. I too believe that these are solemn occasions which can invariably bring up raw and difficult emotions for those with close connections to them.

Kind regards,
Carl

[GrahamL]

No probs Carl :thumbsup:




The insensitive post above , I seriously don't get considering where it comes from .. this generation indeed has probably for the most part passed on .. and as such will slide into history with but a whisper ... they all do ..imo ..deserve better than this pedantic crap .. my input included .

RIP ..!

[Roobi]

even with the machines being left hand drive, that surely doesn't excuse sewing the front half of the flag on back to front. Can you imagine if we had flown an american flag incorrectly. In reguards to the RSL dude response, that is definantly incorrect. A slight folding of the flag would not produce a completely reversed image. Some ones stuffed up here, it'd be nice to know why. Being ex-military myself, i'm certainly annoyed that this could happen especially in a situation like this.

[multiweb]

@Roobi & @nightstalker. My family went through two world war. My grand father was in the resistance the other one got deported in Germany 3 times and escaped 3 times. Two great grand fathers were also lost in WWI. I grew up hearings things first hand so I am fully aware of people's loss and have the upmost respect for any soldier (there were mostly kids) that have given their life so I'm a free man today. The initial thread was simply about a flag being sawn the other way round. Don't you two clowns start stirring s**t about a couple of innocent banters in this thread. :mad2:

[h0ughy]

thanks for the input into this thread - things are getting a wee bit too personal - thread closed