View Full Version here: : Pools - Saltwater or Chlorine?
iceman
27-01-2010, 08:27 AM
Hi all
My wife and I are looking at/thinking about getting an above ground pool.
Do you recommend salt or chlorine, and why?
Pros and cons of each?
Also, for any locals, if you have any experience with any pool shops or above ground pool installers, please let me know who I should contact or stay away from :)
Cheers and thanks.
multiweb
27-01-2010, 08:33 AM
Saltwater definitely. Better/softer on the skin, cheaper to run and maintain. It's only slightly dearer to set-up the first time though but in the long run it's the way to go. Especially with young kids. I hate the smell of strong chlorinated pools.
Hagar
27-01-2010, 08:36 AM
Having had both types of pool there is not a whole lot of difference overall. Salt is onverted to clorine in a chamber killing the bugs the re converted back to salt in the main pool. Cleanliness is the key to a backyard pool. Diligence in cleaning is required.
The saltwater is a little easier on kids eyes but it also does a good job of killing the garden surrounding it. Both are quite expensive to keep and use. Both take a lot of time and a definite commitment to keep them clean and safe.
My recommendation would be go to the beach regularly but if you go down the pool road and in particular an above ground pool, have it professionally installed. The installation looks pretty easy but a pro installer will make a much better job of the task and make maintenance much easier.
Barrykgerdes
27-01-2010, 09:10 AM
As someone who thought a pool was a great idea I installed an above ground pool over 40 years ago. Installation was no problem. Had a lot of fun with it. However upkeep was not worth the trouble. (Mike! You will have no time to run IIS)
Children loved the pool. All I ever got was the maintenance. Kids shy off cleaning pools. That's a well known fact!
After about two years the liner got a couple of holes. I could not get rid if it quick enough. Now I am quite happy to use the neighbour's pools who invite me all the time.
Barry
Terry B
27-01-2010, 09:12 AM
As a third option, we had an ionizer on our pool at my last house (in Moree. I don't need a pool in Armidale).:D
It doesn't have chlorine or salt. The best of both worlds and about the same price.
We've tried both Mike and much prefer the saltwater pool.
The kids love the saltwater too, IMO it's much more pleasant to swim in and I find it better to maintain, like Marc said.
Besides, you can't go fishing in a chlorinated pool. :fishing:
:lol:
pgc hunter
27-01-2010, 09:26 AM
If you are prone to sinus problems, runny nose, hayfever etc. go for salt. I've got a chlorine pool and as soon as I jump in I'm plowing my way through the tissue box.
Dennis
27-01-2010, 09:31 AM
We converted from chlorine to salt and the daily maintenance and monitoring workload dropped significantly – it is a no-brainer. However, our pool water is only polluted by 2 responsible adults, no children, parties etc! The salt cells/plates will require periodic replacement; ours seems to need it every 4 to 5 years.
Our pool is an in-ground pool, 9x4.5 metres holding approx 60,000 litres. One person has to dedicate their life to pool chemistry and maintenance otherwise it can easily slide out of balance. They are expensive to maintain!
We also use a Floatron (http://www.floatron.com/) to "keep it clean" and the savings in electricity in the reduced running of the salt water chlorinator and pool pump over 12 months has paid for it already. We make overseas purchases through Carolina, an IIS member who operates PriceUSA (http://www.priceusa.com.au/)a US/Aus import agency. We were very impressed with Carolina’s service.
Cheers
Dennis
From the Floatron website:
Floatron is the original portable and floating water purifier combining solar electric power generation with ionization, resulting in the only solar ionizer manufactured today.
By introducing atomic amounts of specific minerals into water, microorganisms such as algae and bacteria cannot survive. While these ions, or atoms, are completely safe and nontoxic to you, microscopic life forms cannot exist under their influence. Unlike chlorine, which loses potency after only hours, the mineral ions produced by the floatron remain effective for weeks.
aerobrake
27-01-2010, 10:45 AM
HI mike,
Salt water is the go, as always there are pro's and cons. Salt better on the eyes but will cause corrosion on fences around the pool etc.
i never thought the maintenance was that much of an issue to be honest, I've got trees all around so I do get leaves in the pool but the setup is such that even surface leaves end up in the basket so easily empty once a week or so.
My personal opinion only but I would stay clear of ioniser systems, you are putting heavy metals into your pool which you are then swallowing, yeah I know it very low but its still there, also my brother is a pool guy and he recons about 80% of the ioniser systems he deals with is people having them removed after a year or so of frustration due to lack of performance.
My 2c worth.
Cheers
Mike
Octane
27-01-2010, 11:04 AM
<quote>
I saw a commercial for an above-ground pool, it was 30 seconds long. Because that's the maximum amount of time you can picture yourself having fun in an above-ground pool. If it was 31 seconds, the actor would say "The water is only up to here? What do I do now? Throw the ball back to Jimmy? Or put some goggles on and look at his feet?"
</quote>
Ah, Mitch Hedburg, you are missed. :sadface:
H
kinetic
27-01-2010, 11:15 AM
No one has suggested a deep end option Mike.
Go with that if you go ahead with the pool kit.
Definitely salt water. Minimal maintenance as long as you watch
the chemistry.
I bought the salt a/ground /deep end kit and fitted it myself 3 summers
ago. Mine is excavated half in , half out of the ground on a sloping block.
Also, someone suggested once to me, if you don't go with heating
on your rooftop, then DONT put decking all the way around the pool
because the radiant heating effect of a hot day on the metal wall of
the pool is almost nil. I can't validate this because we didn't deck but
ours is easily up to temp late Oct/early Nov using the cover.
Steve
wasyoungonce
27-01-2010, 11:38 AM
We recently put in a 30,000L salt water pool (fibreglass), mid last year.
We used a tri-control unit (http://www.zodiac.com.au/chlorine-generators/saltwater-chlorinators/zodiac-tri-pool-chlorine-generator.aspx). It controls chlorine; PH & pumps etc...makes it easier for maintenance. There are many variations of this on the market and they alll principally do the same job.
We have a Jandy cartridge (http://www.jandy.com/html/products/filters/cartridge/cs.php) filter. Worst thing ever!:mad2:
The cartridge filters are hard to clean and generally need cleaning in under 2 weeks between. You cannot get into the pleats even with a HP cleaner. It takes a good 20 mins to clean the filter. Replacement cartridges are hellish expensive $200+ and generally need replacement every 8-10 months. They tout the cartridge as filtering better than 5 micron...it's a croc! They do not! We are so peeved we are looking at replacing with a sand filter.
IMHO do not get a cartridge filter...get a sand filter. You can backwash them for cleaning....bugger the water waste! Cartridge filters are great for the pool supply shops...to keep you coming back to buy!
Solar:
Get a Solar heater system & controller. They add a month or so to the shoulder periods for swimming...keeping the water temp nice'n cosy. But in mid summer turn the heater system to off (or low, or winter mode) as it'll heat the water too much!
Pool Equipment:
You need to protect your pool pumps & controllers etc so we built a pool equipment box. Good idea! But on our part...we put it in the worst place possible! Best piece of bad planning we have ever done! :mad2: So do your planning for power & plumbing & positioning well in advance!
Astronomy:
Pools & pool decks with steel reinforcement play havoc with local magnetic deviation. My whole pool deck is concrete with sandstone paver's & my compass is out by 10 degrees! So if you hold a come & set up observing party...everyone will be in a tizz trying to find magnetic south!:lol:
I also wonder about the effect of the pool environment ...aka salt water...on my astro gear. I guess time will tell!:question:
Apart from all the above...it's great...come on in!:thumbsup:
iceman
27-01-2010, 11:46 AM
Thanks for all the advice so far. I'll respond in more detail shortly.
My wife thinks there is some regulation that with a new pool, you must have a water tank as well. Is that true?
starlooker
27-01-2010, 11:55 AM
Wow, I just got a good education on pools! :thumbsup:
wavelandscott
27-01-2010, 12:21 PM
I've only had "in ground" pools...but both salt and chlorine...prefer the salt.
As has been noted, pool chemistry is an art that needs to be mastered for longer term enjoyment (think collimation of a reflector)...
We don't have one now (aside from it being winter and freezing here) but miss having one a lot. Kids swam nearly daily and after a long day at work I too enjoyed a refreshing dip regularly.
Paul Haese
27-01-2010, 12:21 PM
13 years ago I had a salt pool, around 12 meters long. One thing I can say is that I ended up doing nearly all the maintenance on the pool and I will never, I repeat never own one of these time sponging units again no matter how hot things get. The bigger the pool the easier it is to keep clean and free of nasties. If you have a lot of traffic going in and out of the pool the cleaning gets intense. Body fat makes its way everywhere no matter how much people wash before getting in and then often people just get lazy. People say they will help but this does not last long. Either you or your wife will end up cleaning the monster and this gets under your skin.
In my opinion they are not worth the effort. In the end you hate the thing because you will be cleaning it and everyone else will be enjoying it. Don't forget trees drop leaves too. Wind always blows leaves into the pool and this has to be gotten out as quickly as possible.
Good luck with your decision.
Screwdriverone
27-01-2010, 12:45 PM
Hi Mike,
I have an 8 x 5m inground Saltwater chlorinated pool, and yes, the saltwater is nicer to swim in and doesnt taste yuck if it gets in the mouth, but its worth pointing out that even though there is salt in the water, it is still sanitised by the generation of chlorine gas from the salt in the water by a nifty electrolysis type chlorinator. Why I mention this is that even in a salt water pool, if the chlorine level is too high (I know it sounds strange, but its true) then you still get burning eyes and a strong smell. With my pool on 3/5 level for chloring generation and running at 6-8 hours a day filtering, it remains sparkling for MONTHS by simply having the Kreepy Krauly connected which sucks up the gunk like leaves etc. The electricity costs (adds about $100 per quarter) are the pain rather than time or fiddly water levelling on my pool.
My best suggestion is to go with a simple filter on the above ground pool and use your local pool shop's water testing service (free at my one) to TELL you what needs to be done with the water. Once you get the hang of it, its a doddle to add this, bring that level down etc and they will tell you EXACTLY what you need to do based on their report of the water test.
Chlorine is a bit fiddly to get the levels right and potentially dangerous to handle, alternatively, chucking in a bag of salt every now and then when it gets low isnt hard, but I still have to add acid or alkali to adjust occasionally which is also hazardous to handle.
6 of one, half a dozen of the other, perhaps the best thing is to visit your local pool shop (yes, like we suggest with beginners and astro clubs) and ask the staff there what the pros and cons are of each. This will give you a good feel as to what your preferred method would be.
A general rule of thumb is, if its going green, add chlorine, for everything else (alkalinity, sunscreen, ph etc) , talk to your pool shop and get your water tested say every 2-4 weeks depending on the clarity of the water.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Chris
P.S. why not save the cash on the pool and put the observatory in and buy the wife a jacuzzi instead??? ;)
MortonH
27-01-2010, 01:05 PM
Our daughter (15 months) has eczema and before she goes into a chlorine pool she has to be completely covered with a barrier cream. We also need to limit the time she's in there and then bathe her thoroughly afterwards.
With saltwater we wouldn't need to worry about that stuff.
Morton
astropolak
27-01-2010, 01:47 PM
I thought I would add my 2c here....
I have a the bad , bad chlorine fresh water pool, it is computer controlled to maintain 1-3ppm chlorine and Ph at 7.4. The pool is very refreshing to use, we never have any smells of chlorine and the water tastes just like your tap water (probably cleaner).
I always talk to people praising their salt water pools as they "never get green" and are "free of chlorine" - the truth of it that their pools are SUPER CHLORINATED most of the time and most of the owners have no idea what the chlorine levels are in their pools....
Fresh water chlorinated pool for me...(With Nature 2)
JimmyH155
27-01-2010, 02:45 PM
Here are experiences of JimmyH155
We had an above ground chlorine pool for 15 years. I bought a new liner just after we moved in. Said it was guaranteed for 5 years – lasted 15.:D
I bought a large filter. The larger the filter, the longer you can get away without cleaning it.:D
We had trouble with leaves so we bought a “hairnet” You just stretch it over the pool at night and in morning, you can easily brush off all the leaves, then just peel it back when you go swimming.:P
We never bought a Kreepy Krawley – much too expensive, and the little vacuum gismo that came with the pool was quite adequate.:P
NEVER buy chlorine from supermarket – RIPOFF
Here in Brissie, the pool shops almost give the stuff away, $5 for 20 litres. AND you can dilute some for SWIMBO to use with all her cleaning fluids – millions times cheaper than buying a bottle of bleach from supermarket.
Chlorine spills? No worries, just wash it off or dunk hands in pool. We only had to add chlorine once a week.
Later years we found this floating thingey that you put one or two large tablets in and it just floats around pool dosing the correct amount of chlorine and other necessary chemicals. This method ensures that you dont put too much chlorine in:)
We loved it. Finally the liner popped and the steel support rusted away, but that was after at least 20 years!!
My next door neighbour has a salt water pool. His pool is ALWAYS GREEN and the pool shop is constantly calling round:sadeyes:
Clarry
27-01-2010, 02:53 PM
Salt water all the way for me. Low maintenance and you don't get out smelling of chlorine. I love having a pool and the cleaning is not a hassle. In fact, I find getting out there, scooping leaves and testing the water can be quite therapeutic.
Baddad
27-01-2010, 06:47 PM
Hi Mike, :)
The regulations apply in Qld. I don't know what it is in NSW. Attached is a part copy of the Stat Dec we had to sign to get our pool started.
You may want to consider the corrosive effects of salt water on the pool steel structure.
Cheers Marty
rat156
27-01-2010, 07:08 PM
I'll put my own vote in for Chlorinated by hypochlorite fresh water pools.
I have a swimspa, which is brominated and chlorinated, the water is fine, most people have problems because they put too much chlorine in the water. Get the good test sticks and test often and adjust accordingly.
Saltwater in my opinion is like bathing in a pool of warm sweat, uuuuurrrggghhhh.
I love the swimspa, low maintenance, hardcovers to keep the leaves etc out, and a "hairnet" for the hot spells. Top it up from the water tank. Spa end for me and the missus, deep end for the kids to play in.
Cheers
Stuart
iceman
27-01-2010, 08:15 PM
hmm thanks Marty - I can't seem to find anything in NSW regarding it, but I'm quite sure it's because i'm not looking in the right spot.
Anyone else have any info re regulations in NSW?
What's a dedicated down pipe diverter? And how big does the water tank need to be?
Does it depend on the size of the pool? Does it depend on what level water restrictions are in place?
pgc hunter
27-01-2010, 08:20 PM
Are you serious, I pay 17 bucks for 15 litres at my pool shop :sadeyes:
mithrandir
27-01-2010, 10:14 PM
Ditto on the $17.
I have half a drum of granular left too. I use it sparingly because it raises the calcium level and can cause scale on the vinyl liner which wears the baracuda and the liner.
Salt would corrode some steel components which are not stainless steel.
It's not having the chlorine level right that causes the smell - chloroamines are the problem. Add more chlorine to complete the breakdown and the smell goes.
A PhD in organic chemistry seems to be about the required level of education to operate a pool.
rat156
27-01-2010, 11:26 PM
Time for some chemistry here. Or as Mythbusters say "Warning, science content"
It's not the salt that corrodes steel, corrosion of iron is an electrolytic process that requires; Iron (duh), water (probably no shortage of that in a pool), oxygen (again no shortage in an aerated pool), an electrolyte in the water so it conducts, lastly you need a carbon electrode in the iron (this is provided during the smelting process, fine particles of coke are embedded in the steel). So pure iron (quite different from steel, an alloy) will not rust. If you take away any of these things, the iron will not rust (sort of like the triangle of fire).
Just adding anything to the pool water that is ionic will increase the electrolytic capacity of the water and enhance the corrosion. Salt is a particularly good electrolyte. Hypochlorite salts are less so, but they are oxidising in the first place, so may help things along a bit anyway.
For those worried about scale in a chlorine pool, use Sodium Hypochlorite solution instead. Scale is insoluble Calcium and Magnesium salts, the Sodiated version of these are all soluble at the levels we're talking about.
Not sure about the chloramines, but I wouldn't discard it, but the amine part has to come from somewhere, and unless someone is peeing in your pool...
Cheers
Stuart
Baddad
28-01-2010, 08:39 AM
Hi Mike, :)
Look up a reputable pool installer. They will have all the answers.
Cheers Marty
Davros
28-01-2010, 12:42 PM
I have had both salt and chlorine in ground and above ground pools. Now i have a spa which is the best idea I have ever had. Bugger all maintenance and all of the fun, plus you get to sit down in a spa :D
el_draco
28-01-2010, 12:47 PM
Nice to have the choice.... Alas, if I swim in Chlorine, I am functionally blind for the next week. Chlorine is a toxic substance chemically so even if I was not snsitive to it, I'd still swim in salt any day.
JimmyH155
28-01-2010, 12:51 PM
Sorry, guys, my price I gave was wrong. :mad2: Just checked up. It is $12 for 20 litres, $6 for 10 litres. Still very cheap . Your container though. :D. Give SWIMBO a top up of her bleach bottle. She probably spent $2.50 for 1 litre of bleach. Using pool chlorine, put just 250 ml into a 1 litre bottle of water and her bleach will be stronger than that supermarket stuff. :P:P
:eyepop::eyepop: arhhhhh we cant have that :rolleyes: no Mike you must stand away from the pool :lol:
Baddad
02-02-2010, 10:41 AM
Hi Mike, Hi All, :)
What's the story? Have you made any decisions yet? Some of us would like to know what you info you've come up with regarding the pool laws in NSW. Also what the salespersons have said to sway you over to their product.;)
Cheers Marty
iceman
02-02-2010, 11:41 AM
Hey Marty
Been doing some more investigations and spoke to council yesterday too.
It seems that:
1) I need to get council approval (and fill out a DA?)
2) In my local council area, I need a water tank, regardless of how many L the pool is. I need a 2000L tank minimum, which is going to add at least $1000 to the cost of getting this damn pool.
We've decided to go with Saltwater Chlorinated, but no deep end. The one we're looking at is 1.32m, which is ok. The deep end would add about $1500-$2000 onto the cost, thanks to the lining, excavation, installation etc, and for a small pool like we're getting (7.3m x 3.6m) it's just not worth it.
So it's sort of underway. Got an installer coming on Thursday to look at the site and get a better idea on price, where things will go etc.
I'm going to try and do the excavation myself, and also take the sand/crusher dust around the back myself. Otherwise i'm just paying someone to push wheelbarrows all day long (I have no other access to my backyard).
Baddad
02-02-2010, 02:04 PM
Hi Mike, :)
Its a lot of work, but you save a lot of money. Keep it above ground where its designed to be. The Former pool was badly installed into the ground and collapsed. Refer Thread: AAMI Rescued us.
I have been working on our inground. In 30 C+ heat its hard yakka.
Keep at it Mike, You'll get there.
Cheers Marty
space oddity
02-02-2010, 07:04 PM
Forget chlorine, forget salt. Ozone is the only sane way to go. Sure there is the upfront cost and you need to clean the electrodes periodically(although for extra cost a more sealed unit can be much lower maintainence.)Ozone will not affect your lungs or destroy your grass and you will not need to wash the salt off after. Ozone is a great bug killer and has no smell when dissolved in water. The running cost is electricity, although some systems use dessicants to dry the air before going through the plasma discharge. Guesstimate cost of ozonating system about $2,500 , running costs very little-pays for itself after about 5 years.
Ozone, the only way to go.
Bassnut
02-02-2010, 07:15 PM
Is "ionised" the same thing as "ozone" ?. I had ionised installed, yes its good, but you have to be very carefull and persistant with upkeep and balance. Being somewhat forgetful and lazy, I let it go sometimes. Its a bietch to get right again, so I went back to chlorine by default unforch. You made the right choice Mike, enjoy ;-).
richardda1st
02-02-2010, 07:19 PM
Mike, as you have a young family I'm sure you will look carefully at your choice of a pool fence. The reason I say this is that a lot of the so called approved pool fences will actually fail a proper test. Especially the bargain basement aluminium tube fences. I have seen some in a major hardware chain that with one hand you can squeeze two tubes together to a large degree. Some very determined skinny kid could quite easily squeeze through. I think I checked out the "Choice consumer" webpage. Anyway I'm sure you have this under control.
I use an ioniser set at minimum and an occasional use of a minimum amount of chlorine works really well. Pool always clear and clean. No smell and very cheap to run. I have often been told the best thing to do is keep you filters clean and run you pump everyday. Only neglect will make it a chore.
All the best:thumbsup:
Richard
Kevnool
02-02-2010, 08:08 PM
I,m a salt water man when it comes to my pool,plain and simple.
Cheers Kev.
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