ATM skimming. What the heck!! Not my day.

[Lumen Miner]

Hey all.


Just my rant.... :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

Got up this morning, dashed to work in the car and used the last of my fuel to get there. Went to take out some cash at work.... declined... What tha?

There has to be atleast $3000 in there after being paid this morning.

Went up stairs to the office to ask if the pays have been held up... Nope they were paid.

Called the bank... Yep the money went in, then went straight out...
They removed some how $2908.03. Why that exact amount?? Why not the whole lot?





Well I guess I got skimmed, ^%$#@^%@#$!!!

No money, rent to pay tomorrow, no fuel in the car.... I live as a lot do these days, pay check to pay check. Isn't life grand!!?

I would normally have another $2500 in there, yet paid rego,insurance and tyres the previous week. So I used my savings for that... Worst time for it.

I set up net banking this arvo, so tonight at 12am I get to find out, where in the world my money went to.

I do not ever use this key card for online transactions, so I could have only got skimmed... Weird thing is I can remember all the places, I used the card and am always suspicious of weird lookng card readers etc.


Tomorrow the bank said they would start investigating, but need to wait until they to find out the details.

I have heard that if it is considered fraudulent and I did not take out the money, then they will remburse me almost straight away. I just hope it is an over-seas fraud attempt, not something local. As I can see if it is a local withdrawel then, how do I prove it wasn't me just taking the money out...



I'm a tad worried...

Anyway thanks for listening!
Anyone else been through this?

[TrevorW]

Set up another saving a/c seperate too your card

to bill pay from this

transfer only what you think you may need eacvh week into the card a/c

that way the most they

would get if your card is skimmed would be $200

[Lumen Miner]

In hinesight, that does not sound like a bad idea. I only very rarely use an atm to withdraw cash, only 1 ATM visited on my transactions in the last month. I bought things at a few shops. I normally get my cash at our registers in store.
I generally try and keep away from ATM's.

[leon]

Yep you will get it back, it is the banks responsibility, we got done for nearly $10.000.00 some time ago the funds were used for some betting agency overseas.

We got the whole amount back.

Leon

[Lumen Miner]

That's good to hear!
Was it a lengthy proceedure to get the money back? Days, weeks, months??

[sheeny]

Like Leon, I got done by an overseas gambling operation for about $1000.

I contacted the european money transfer company that showed up on my account, and they refunded me the money but I did lose out on exchange rate variations in the meantime to the tune of $100 roughly.:mad2:

If that hadn't have worked my credit union would've been on their tail.

Al.

[Shep]

Just keep calm till you know more details. I got all fired up about something similar although not worth as much and my case turned out to be operator error at the bank, an employee was processing manual eftpos or credit card stuff (you know from those click clack machines) and she just punched in one wrong number. Once they figured it out it was only a couple of days for them to reimburse me.

[Lumen Miner]

Thanks. I am calm though. Just bugs me the bank will need to reimbuse me because some scum sucker ripped us both of. :)

[mozzie]

yep !!!!! scum bags they dont work

i want it: i need it: i dont work: i'll steal it

[Barrykgerdes]

I had $15000 (roughly) put on my credit card by someone buying airline tickets in Malaysia. The bank got involved the same day when the perpertrators tried to exceed the credit limit and cancelled the card immediately. They gave me a new card and I went to the bank to see what it was all about. In two days the debt was cancelled. Next they repaid the money into my credit card twice. I fed all the data into my computer but I could not work out how they figured this out. I suddenly had a Credit card balance of +$30000. Boo! hoo! When I tried to get at it I could not withdraw or transfer it. It took about 2 months to finally get sorted out but in the mean time I got 50000 award points (about $200 worth). When it was all sorted out I lost about $40 in the credit card a/c but gained the award points worth $200. The inconvenience was minimal.

Barry

[Matt Wastell]

It will all work out.
Banks are very aware of 'skimming'. I had a phone call from my bank recently stating an ATM I recently used had been tampered with and data collected. They immediately called and reduced my withdrawal limit to $200 until I changed my PIN.
I was impressed - albeit they are protecting a potential loss.
It is a terrible problem and QLD is a current hot spot.

Always look around when using ATM's and cover the pad when you enter your PIN.

[toc]

scary stuff :eyepop:

This morning I stupidly gave my debit card details over the phone to someone ringing up from my daughters piano school, wanting me to settle an outstanding bill that slipped my mind.

I didnt think about it at the time, but how easy would it be for someone to have been stealing my mail and 'pretend' to be from the school? God I am :screwy:

[Matt Wastell]

Hey Tim - I am sure it will be OK.
Here in Paddington we had lots of mail stolen for that exact reason - someone stealing your 'credit identity'. The good news is they need lots of details and some luck with passwords and the like!

[norm]

Its a huge problem and some of the syndicates of late have come from Romania. My sister got done at Comm Bank in Concord to the tune of 3k.
Luckily 5 others got hit as well and she'll get money back in due course.

Tips:

1. set a limit of maximum funds that can be drawn Eg, $300
2. get your money from Supermarkets via eftpos trans.

Lot of the skimming takes place within secs of each other where the banks system won't pick it up immediately, hence sometimes multiple withdrawls show up later on. Also the scammers do it a minute ot two prior to midnight and after to get bang for their bucks...literally.

Lock up the mongrels if they get caught, b@$t#rds!

Norm

[acropolite]

If you're saying that you set up on line net banking, then that would be my prime suspect rather than skimming. You may have some form of trojan undetected on your PC.

[Lumen Miner]

Nope, only set up internet banking this arvo, after the event so I can tell in a few hours at 12am where the funds went. The bank won't find out until tomorrow.

[erick]

Always always always! Beware someone looking over your shoulder or a camera pointed at the keypad.

Have you noticed how many people fail to do this at EFTPOS machines in the shops, let alone at the ATM.

Mind you, if you watch their lips, half them are reciting the number as they go!

[Lumen Miner]

You should see how willingly people through their credit cards details, at me over the phone for deliveries... I could be Joe Blog for all they know. I try and tell them I need to pass them onto the teller, but they just blurt it out to me, which obviously I need to right down to relay the info. It's a good thing I destroy the notes after... people are all too trusting.

I was in New Zealand a couple of years back. I was hiring gear when I happened to notice, when you gave credit card details for your ski hire, they were just throwing all the details into one big box.... Literally 1000's of credit card details in one big box. If I was so inclined, given distractions at the desk, I could have quit easily taken the box.

[Vartigy]

Couple of security tips with money.

Need cash? Take it out through an eftpos transaction at your local Woolworths or Coles.


Security questions.
Not all institutions allow you to create your own questions. But the method which I will explain here can also be used for those 'set' questions.
We all know that banks and other institutions ask you to select 1-5 "secret/security" questions and provide an answer for them.
Some allow you to create your own as well.

If you get the chance to create your own, I highly recommend doing it.
Avoid the normal questions with blatantly correct answers i.e.:
Where do you live? - Koonarabarin
What is your favorite colour? - Mauve
What is your pets name? - Hogswash
etc

I recommend creating your own questions about something completely unique in your life with an answer that is directly indirect.
For example.
What is your favorite AFL team? - MCG.
Truthfully, your fav team may be Melb Demons, but you don't provide the answer as that. But the question is enough to jolt your mind towards your false positive answer. The MCG, home of the Melb Demons.
Other examples can include:
What is your special/fav number? - Eighteen
Note that most people would provide the numerical answer instead of a literal answer.
Where did I first live? - 3 x 2 or Thompsons or Blue.
3x2 would jolt your memory that your first house was a 3bed 2 bathroom?
Maybe your next door neighbours were the Thompson family.
Or maybe your house was painted bright blue.

A few examples of high security personalised questions include:
First computer game? - pick one that was sentimental, first one you completed?
My amount collected? - instead of having a number, have your answer as the 'type' of collection, a particular comic? card? coasters? matches... whatever.
Create a completely silly riddle that will only make sense to you. Something that will bring a smile to you upon hearing it and you'll be able to answer it easily.

As I said before, this method can also be used in those 'preset' questions.
Mother's maiden name? - does she have a nickname? can use that.
First pet name? - name the breed of animal.

Remember, Indirectly Direct answers.

Internet Banking.

If you don't have anti-virus software, spyware detectors/cleaners or general malware deterrent software installed on your computer.
Find some.
These days it's essential to at least have some basic protection.
Letting your unprotected system take a stroll through the WWW is as harmful as letting an unvaccinated youth swim in a diseased third world sewage laden waterway.

There are the obvious choices for antivirus protection (norton, mcafee etc). But there are some really good bits of antivirus kit out there that is much cheaper, less restrictive on your system, but does a top job at protecting you all the same.
Some names to mention are AVG, Eset Nod32 (aussie owned and run I believe).

If you are unsure at any time about computer safety and security, most ISProviders in Aust have a 24hr support team that is more than willing to answer/assist you with your systems. Afterall, it's in their best interest that your internet experience is conducted safe and hassle free (means more business for them).

Hope that helps.

[Jabba]

It is a major issue lately for all banks ATMs. This message was notified just this week at Stgeorge.

'Financial Crime Management (FCM) identified a card compromise at a several merchants in Sydney. Some St George Credit and Debit cards are at risk, with numerous customers experiencing fraudulent international transactions on their accounts.'

best step to take in the case it happened to you is to contact your bank insitution as soon as your aware and report any unusual activity on your card so they can put a block on your card.

The faster it is reported, the quicker it can be blocked and contained...

[Ric]

Sorry to hear about that Mitchell, hope there's a speedy resolution.

It is really getting to the point where it's probably safer to keep your money in a sock under the mattress.

Another thought is why do ATM's have to be so open? couldn't they have a small shield over the top to stop camera's from spying on your numbers and make your banking more private.

[Barrykgerdes]

Make sure that you cover the keypad with your hand when keying in the numbers. Also cover as much of the front of the machines as you can with your body.

I was in a shop that sold telescopes etc and to demonstrate a spotting scope you could look nearly 300 metres down the street. At the end of this street there was an ATM. At 30+ Mag (which you could get on a good day) I could see the numbers being keyed in on the machine if the user did not stand in the way!

Baz

[Lumen Miner]

Thanks for your support all, I'm in a much better frame of mind today...

Just for interests sake.
The money was withdrawn by some UK company? Not sure who, but there was three withdrawels, all incurring a overseas transaction fee.

The bank this morning said it was definatley fraudulent and they would begin investigations.

They also advised me that if it was not resolved within 7 days, they would provide an account on which I can over-draw the savings account in question until it is resolved. That's helpful atleast.


Thanks again guys. :)

[h0ughy]

so does that mean the bank is going to recover the money?

there was a article on tonight's news saying exactly what has happened to you has happened to about 600 others from your area and they issued a bulletin to change your pin. All major banks were affected, they used a and . then they steel the original in the first place and substitute a modified swipe handset to record your card details and then your pin, then go back to the shop and steel it back and place back the original one. very sophisticated.

[blindman]

I think I have PARANOIA.........

LAWYER'S ADVICE (NSW) - NO CHARGE (for a change)
Quote:
A corporate LAWYER sent the following out to the employees in his company:

1. Next time you order cheques, have only your initials (instead of your first name) and surname put on them. If someone takes your cheque book, they will not know if you sign your cheques with just your initials or your first name, but your bank will know how you sign your cheques.

2. Do not sign the back of your credit cards. Instead, put "PHOTO ID REQUIRED".

3. When you are writing cheques to pay on your credit card accounts, DO NOT put the complete account number on the "For" line. Instead, just put the last four numbers. The credit card company knows the rest of the number, and anyone who might be handling your cheque as it passes through all the cheque processing channels won't have access to it.

4. Place your work phone number on your cheques instead of your home phone. If you have a PO Box, use that instead of your home address. If you do not have a PO Box, use your work address. Never have your Centrelink Number printed on your cheques. You can add it if it is necessary, but if you have it printed, anyone can get it.

5. Run the contents of your wallet through a photocopy machine. Do both sides of each licence, credit card, etc. You will know what you had in your wallet and all of the account numbers and phone numbers to call and cancel. Keep the photocopy in a safe place (not your wallet). I also carry a photocopy of my passport when travelling either here or abroad. We've all heard horror stories about fraud that's committed on us in stealing a name, address, Social Security number, credit cards.

Unfortunately I, an attorney, have first-hand knowledge because my wallet was stolen last month. Within a week, the thieves ordered an expensive monthly mobile phone package, applied for a VISA credit card, had a credit line approved to buy a Dell computer, received a PIN number from DMV to change my driving record information on-line, and more.

But here's some critical information to limit the damage in case this happens to you or someone you know:

1. We have been told we should cancel our credit cards immediately, but the key is having the toll free numbers and your card numbers handy so you know whom to call. Keep those where you can find them.

2. File a police report immediately in the jurisdiction where your credit cards, etc., were stolen. This proves to credit providers you were diligent, and this is a first step toward an investigation (if there ever is one).

3. But here's what is perhaps most important of all: (I never even thought to do this.)

Call the three national credit reporting organisations immediately to place a fraud alert on your Tax File Number your passport number and driver’s licence number. I had never heard of doing that until advised by a bank that called to tell me an application for credit was made over the Internet in my name. The alert means any company that checks your credit knows your information was stolen, and they have to contact you by phone to authorise new credit. By the time I was advised to do this, almost two weeks after the theft, all the damage had been done. There are records of all the credit checks initiated by the thieves' purchases, none of which I knew about before placing the alert. Since then, no additional damage has been done, and the thieves threw my wallet away. This weekend someone handed it in. It seems to have stopped them dead in their tracks.

Now, here are some numbers which you might need to contact if your wallet etc has been stolen:

1. Visa Card Australia 1800 621 199
2. Visa Card International 1800 450 346
3. Lost Travellers' Cheques 1800 127 477
4. MasterCard Australia (02) 9466 3700
5. MasterCard International 1800 120 113
6. Bankcard Australia (02) 9281 6633
7. Medicare 132 011
8. Centrelink Fraud 137 230
9. Seniors Card 1300 364 758
10. Passport 131 232
others
ANZ FREECALL 1800 033 844
BankWest 131 718
Citibank 132 484
Tamworth Coles/Myer Source 2340 1300 306 397
Commonwealth 132 221
CUSCAL- MyCard 1300 135 538
GE Capital 1300 369 904
Members Equity 1300 654 998
National 132 265
St George 1800 028 208
SydneyVirgin 2000 1800 080 000
Westpac 1800 230 144
Woolworths Ezy Banking 137 288

I still didn t do it. WHY?

Cheers Nev

[Lumen Miner]

Yeah, I saw that article. Three of my friends have been done also this week. One of which works with me at Bu##ings. We were wondering if they may have swapped out one of our card readers here...

Pretty crazy stuff... The last fail safe of a user was to cover there hand whilst entering their pin, so it seems even that is not enough...
Freaky times weez live in.

I got the impretion that yes, it would be paid back when they can positivley identify it as fraud. Given the recent bloom here in Sydney, I would say I am safe and it will be re-paid ASAP.

[stephenb]

This is a link to a Radio National Background Briefing progam on internet/banking security in this country. Download the podcast, it is very informative...

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/backgroundbriefing/stories/2007/1955341.htm

[Spanrz]

I got told a couple of months ago, that my credit cards were possibly "comprimised". And that was by the banks (Westpac and Comm).
They had forecasted a large hit with CC's in the coming months , by fraudsters.
They sent 2 new cards out to me, with different expiry dates.

It seems the banks info was correct.

[DavidU]

I hope things turn out ok Mitchell.

[Lumen Miner]

They will, things always turn out alright in the end.
Just depends on your definition of "the end".

I borrowed some cash to pay my rent and for food, just need to wait it out now. I can deal with noodles for a week, just didn't want my girlfriend to have to eat them all week too.
I am just lucky I have family I can call on (I pride myself on not asking my parents for anything), some people in this situation would not have the luxury of borrowing from family, so I am grateful.

[GrahamL]

Hope it works out ok mitchell.

I try and avoid desktop scanners if i can and stick with the atm
Until these things are physicaly built into the till or some other permanent fixture, (which does seem to be happening ) the scammers are going to keep looking for big merchants with the easily comprimised technology.

[Lumen Miner]

Thanks, it's appreciated. :)

We noticed last night, that several of our friends in this area were also hit in the last few days. I didn't know how big this was, until I started seeing their facebook updates and their twitters.

Until the recent news the other night, I had no idea scammers had got to the stage of creating their own swipe machines for shops, so I was assuming they were the safer option than a ATM.

[Shano592]

We were done online a couple of years ago, to the tune of $15000. The money was being sent to Colombia, I think.

Fortunately, the Falcon (tm) was alert to it, and I received a phone call at 5am, to ask me if the transaction was legitimate. The money was blocked at the border, and was in our account by the time we got to work.

In this respect, our banks I think are world leaders, at being fair where fraud is involved.

We were also fortunate to not be affected by the McDonalds scam in Perth last year, as we were there during that whole thing, and lived at Maccas, basically.

[Lumen Miner]

TO ALL SYDNEY RESIDENTS

After speaking to many people, it looks like Sydney is getting done over now.
I would advise every person with a savings card, to change your pin immediatley.

Thornleigh / Magraiths Hill Mac Donalds had a skimming swipe eftos unit dropped off at there a week and a half ago. Anyone that went there could of had their card details skimmed. I have confirmed this with the bank.

Three team members at Thornleigh Bunnings, whom did not go to Mac Donalds also had money taken from their account. I have my suspitions that a device was installed at Thornleigh Bunnings also as we all took money out of the same unit. I have alerted the bank and our loss prevention to this and they are investigating...

This is only the beginning... I think Sydney is in for a shock.

[erick]

Want to be depressed?

Read:- http://www.networkworld.com/community/print/33210

Forget covering the entering of your PIN if they have a keyboard overlay in place.

[Screwdriverone]

Hi,

Yes, similar thing happened to me and my wife (4 weeks apart). I tried to get money out of an ATM and it ate my card and said on the screen "card retained, please contact your bank". I thought..What the ..... When I rang the bank and told them, they said my card was used at an ATM or Eftpos terminal that was known to have had a skimmed device attached to it so they AUTOMATICALLY cancelled my ATM card as a precaution. I got the new card 4 days later and they stayed on the phone with me to check all my recent transactions which were all fine. Luckily, this premptive strike by my bank (Suncorp) caught the issue before anyone could do anything. Similar thing, my wife then got an SMS (the day of the Houghy mentioned news story on ACA) from St George with the same result, again, no money left our accounts fraudulently.

The situtation was that we never used the same locations as each other so the area of penetration was obviously large. It wasnt about covering your pin, it was obviously the replaced EFTPOS machine handset that got our cards. Ironically, I noticed a few weeks ago that Maccas near my house now has a combination lock securing the EFTPOS handset to a security cable just to ward against this sort of scam.

Even so, I now sign ALL Credit transactions rather than use the pin. Coz if they aint got the PIN, they havent got much as they cant withdraw cash from your account without it.

Sorry to hear your misfortune, I am sure it will be fine and you should get your money back soon..

Cheers

Chris

[Lumen Miner]

Add one more from work. That's 4 people so far.
$2900
$1400
$650
$60

All just hours after we got paid in our accounts.

[Geoff45]

Yep, never give your CC details to an unsolicited caller.
Geoff

[Ric]

I remember getting a phone call from someone claiming to be from the NSW RFS asking for credit card donations.

When I told that I was with the RFS as well and asked him what brigade he was with they promptly hung up on me.

I in turn promptly rang headquarters in Sydney and informed them what had happened.

[Lumen Miner]

Well it looks like today IS my lucky day. Mearly 5 days after having the monies removed, they are now back in my account. They were deposited back in by "Bank fraud refund". It was the exact amount taken, including the international bank transfer fees, which I was surprised about.

So I am very happy now, I can pay back the money I borrowed. Rent is overdue tomorrow, so that was an added bonus too.
Happy days once again! :)

Thanks for your support!!

I would have to say well done to the bank, as I was not expecting to see anything soon. Good job on that one.

[norm]

Things would be a lot harder for the fraudsters if the banks introduced 2 factor authentication. Any transcation you make requires a a pin (something you know) and a token that generates random numbers every 60secs (something you have). Although it may not be 100% fool proof, its definitely one step making it EXTREMELY difficult for the crims.

Reason why banks don't do it - cost ! Its cheaper for them to pay out the fraud to the tune of say $40mill a year, as opposed to setting this up at a cost of probably $100 mill. plus yearly ongoing running of the application/maintenance.

Norm

[Dooghan]

I have 2 factor authentication (something you know and something you have) with my bank Suncorp. Cost must not have been the reason why they set it up.

[norm]

I know its available for certain clientele of the banks (small businesses, weekly trans $10>), but for the majority of customers (mums/dads) it hasn't been introduced.

Norm

[mithrandir]

ACB702 were talking to someone from the Fraud Squad a few minutes ago. Skimmers have been stealing and reprogramming EFTPOS terminals to turn them into trojans. It sounds like they pretend to be from the service company and show up to replace "faulty" terminals with a new one.

People have been charged over the theft of the terminals.

Mitchell, Castle Hill was mentioned. Had you been shopping here?

Regarging two factor:

The better number generators ones are in the $60-100 range, about the size of a stack of 4 credit cards, and have a life of about 3 years.

That is in the price range to be suitable for just about any customer.

[Lumen Miner]

No not Castlehill. Only Beecroft ATM and BuWWings Thornleigh.

[DavidU]

$50 mill skimmed.............
http://au.biz.yahoo.com/100120/2/2atkk.html