If Pulled The Pin

[leon]

Hi Guys, :thumbsup: well, as some, or most of you know I had my Tak set-up forsale over the last two weeks.

I will make this as short as I can, but do want to say something.

From the many PM's I received there were some that were realistic, yet there were others that were just plain stupid, or they had no idea of Takahasi Equipment. :shrug:

I have negotiated with a couple of people here, and it was good, but I have rejected there offers. :sadeyes: yea, that is to the losing person

Takahasi stuff is expensive, :eyepop: and I worked hard to get it, and just because Alice and I are going elsewhere, some of you are not going to get it for free, :sadeyes: so to speak.

Anyway to make along story short.

I apologise to my mates :thumbsup: who had a genuine interest in some items, I will PM you guys shortly, but the sale has been canceled. :sadeyes:

Guys, I'm going through a period of my life, where i feel i want a change, but i can still do this with keeping my rig. ;)

I am probably going to be hated by some, well, so be it, I can live with that.

You guys have seen my set-up, and although I'm not the best imager out there, I give it a try. :thumbsup:

So It stays, once i get over menopause, :lol: i will see. :lol:

I will talk to you guys soon :thumbsup:

Leon :thumbsup:


PS. I will ask the moderators to delete the for sale thread.

[TrevorW]

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do Leon

Have a beer on me for Christmas, mate

[TheDecepticon]

I know what you mean about the sale of your items, Leon!! Good on you!! Tyre kickers and cheapskates abound!! Catch you on the flip side!! Take care!!:)

[jjjnettie]

Glad to hear it Leon.:D

[Octane]

:)

Good on you for not relenting. :)

All the best, matey.

Regards,
Humayun

[matt]

:shrug:

[Kal]

Leon,

Perhaps you just need to complement your astronomy hobby with a new one....preferably something cheap so that you can still buy new astronomy goodies when the bug bites ;) Maybe something that both you and Alice have a shared interest in.

Whatever the future holds I wish you all the best and if you do drift away from astronomy for a while you know that there are plenty of friends here for when you come back :)

[mozzie]

well said leon we all work bloody hard for what we have bugger giving it away best of luck in your new adventures and a merry christmas and a happy new year
mozzie

[Omaroo]

Best decision I've heard all month - way to go Leon. You DO work hard to earn Takahashi gear (I know!!!), so why should people assume that they'll get it cheap if you put it up for sale. Damn ridiculous of them. Keep it if you don't need the cash - I would. Even if you've lost interest, it is still ingrained in you - otherwise you wouldn't have done it in the first place. I wish you all the best my friend. Come back to the fold when you're good and ready.

[multiweb]

Good for you Leon! Would have done the same. Selling pristine TAK gear?... :confuse2: One day you'll look at the stars again and you'll be glad you kept your rig. All the best. :thumbsup:

[dugnsuz]

Glad to hear it leon!
Connect your rig up to the internet and we'll all give you $$$ for remote imaging time!:P
All the best
Doug

[Hagar]

I can understand your feelings Leon. I have been in the same situation while selling the FS102 and had some rediculous offers considering the price I put on the scope and considering it's replacement cost. It is often the little bits and pieces that cost and are treated by the purchaser as worthless.
Tak equipment is expensive but with the cost comes the quality you expect from a superb instrument.

To be honest I am glad you haven't sold it Leon because I can see you coming back to it after a bit of a rest.

I will be back imaging again shortly as long as I don't drown myself in this new Kayak I bought myself for Christmas.

Have a nice rest and see you back sooner or later Tangelfoot.

[AlexN]

Damn... I really wanted that FSQ and G11... :) Not to worry! Glad to hear you're hanging onto the lot mate.. Im sure you'll find time for it in the future! At that point you will be very happy indeed that you decided not to sell! :)

[gbeal]

Woo Hoo, Leon is still with us, great news, I knew that slapping from the JJJ and Jen would work.
Great to have you still with us mate
Gary

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

I'd like to say something about that :mad2: Call me a nark if you want.

I have noted in the past that prices on IIS tend to be a bit higher than the 50-60% of new that I grew used to over many many years of dealing in the (late lamented) Trading Post.

I concluded that this was due to being on different ground, special territory so to speak. I have not haggled (much :D) during several satisfactory purchases here on IIS and all parties have been very satisfied in each case I think. And I'll be there again.

So, I do not believe that I qualify anyway for the rather supercilious and sneering label of "tyre kicker and cheapskate".

Yet...... I would like to say a short word on behalf of anyone here on IIS who wants a bargain. You who want top dollar for your unwanted stuff may not be aware that the market value of any piece of second-hand goods (with no warranty, no certainty) is only what someone wants to pay for it. Not what you think, sorry.

Of course you want top dollar, I have met many sellers like that, who have unrealistic ideas about their stuff :hi:. But I would not call them names, that is just the way of it.

And then, what is unusual about wanting a bargain? Who here has not felt like that? How is a buyer to know if they do not ask, anyway?

So you sellers that feel too impatient about bargain hunters and expect the prospective buyer to sign on your agenda without question, I suggest diffidently that you (yes yes - as well as the buyer with the very low offer) have something to learn about the market.

Having said all that :P can I add that any future seller who has a PM from me will be treated very seriously :thumbsup:

Cheers

Edit and PS: just after posting this with much anxiety (I do not want to troll, and that's a fine line) I found this thread where buyers bag the seller. Ah dear me.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=54259

[dannat]

having looked around at many items i think the items on ice trade go for very fair prices, some discounted..when i compare to that well known auction site called evilbay..i notice some of the telescope stuff there goes at a much higher premium, i cannot believe what some people will pay on that site

[matt]

Fair call, Geoff.

I think that in the case of buying/selling...offers and replies should (mostly) be carried out via pm and what happens on pm...should stay on pm...if you get my drift:)

If an offer offends....politely turn it down. End of exchange. Simple. Move on.

I don't see the value of venting publically about low-ball offers and bargain hunters when those people did their haggling privately. Just tell 'em they're dreaming and move on.:thumbsup:

Just my 2c worth.

[PeterM]

Totally agree, everyone here has freedom of choice. If you don't like the offer being made then turn it down outright, don't reply or let it be the start of negotiations that may lead to a successful outcome for both parties.
But do it by PM only.
Haggling on price, really dumb offers (and sometimes they are accepted) these are an Aussie institution. I have lost track of how many times someone has bought an absolute astro bargain only to be envied by their mates "oh wish I had made an offer".
If your price is firm then stick to it, but accept the fact that it won't deter people from making low offers. Never has never will.
PeterM.

[Starkler]

Astronomy stuff isn't 'consumable' and usually doesnt wear out if treated well, so your depreciation levels shouldnt apply to astro gear imo.
As a guide I used to look at Astromart and determined that desirable 2nd hand current market stuff in excellent cond usually traded for 70-75% of new price.

Here on IIS it seems harder to get a decent price due to the much smaller size of our market and patience is often required to match up with a buyer who is actually seeking that item, rather than those only enticed by "a bargain".

Lowballers making offers like 30% below asking price without invitation are like rude scavengers, and its tempting to respond with the contempt such offers deserve. imo

[trick]

Dot Point 11
Here

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=46

Matt,I agree. We all may need to take the emotional attachment to the gear or the hobby out of the sale.



Originally Posted by matt http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../vbiis/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=537734#post537734)
Fair call, Geoff.

I think that in the case of buying/selling...offers and replies should (mostly) be carried out via pm and what happens on pm...should stay on pm...if you get my drifthttp://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../vbiis/images/smilies/happy19.gif

If an offer offends....politely turn it down. End of exchange. Simple. Move on.

I don't see the value of venting publically about low-ball offers and bargain hunters when those people did their haggling privately. Just tell 'em they're dreaming and move on.http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/../vbiis/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[Hagar]

Seems lots of people offer their 2 cents worth. As a seller I now place my for sales with a price and the words FIRM placed directly after the figure I expect. How stupid do people have to be or think the seller is by making offencive offers often below even the 50% value mentioned earlier. I think it is quite reasonable to vent the frustration of recieving such rediculous offers.
By the way, any telescope retailer will tell you good equipment has or should have a resell value of 2/3 of original equipment.
Go try to buy an AP refractor fo 90% of it's original cost and the seller would laugh you to death.
Fair enough the buyer sets the price in the second hand market but when prices are quoted why must we as sellers get rediculous offers.
Be patient if the sale has to happen the seller will drop the price.

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

I agree astro gear seems to be different, I said that originally :D.

As to any buyers being like "rude scavengers", I can't agree though :(.

They are merely the market expressing an opinion about your stuff which is sadly different to your own, nothing more. Anyway, the whole process is adversarial at its roots:

Proverbs 20:14 "'It's no good, it's no good', saith the buyer, but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth."

;)

Cheers

[PeterM]

Then vent your frustrations in a pm to the "offensive" offer. If you didn't sell it then either A. nobody wants it, B. it is too expensive or C. (the most likely reason) you expected it would be gone in 24hrs and you didnt leave it in long enough, it may take weeks or months to get your price. Update your add occasionally, change it, keep it "in ya face"

PeterM.

[matt]

Just do it via pm, if you have to. No-one wants to know your private business.

Thanks for offering your 2c worth too, Doug. Seems a lot of people want to offer that, and that's good...because this is a public forum.:thumbsup:

[Miaplacidus]

"And so this is Christmas..."

[Paul Haese]

Leon, sorry to hear that things are not great at the moment. Nobody should be having troubles this time of year but it does happen.

In regard to the rest of the comments about price; well my thoughts are you put it up for sale you should expect ridiculous (that is the correct spelling BTW) offers. Simply replying with a curt thank you but no thanks is best I reckon. Takahashi gear is expensive but it is like anything. You take it out of the showroom and the value drops by 15-25%. There is no point in comparing it to AP prices. Only an idiot would pay the prices that AP second hand gear demands. If you are offended by this comment then think about when you buy a car. It cost infinitely more money and drops by $5-15K the minute it drives out the door. I have looked through a Tak 130 and AP of similar size within seconds at high mag and saw no difference whatsoever. It does not mean that Tak prices should be the same as AP prices. It means that second AP's are over priced. Personally I thought the price listed for the whole kit was too much Leon. Sometimes if you want gear to move you just have to drop the price a little more. The choice is yours of course but tyre kickers are every where.

Best of luck with your future Leon.

[leon]

You know what guys other then some, that I know personally have no no idea, :shrug: all I wanted was a fair price, for some expensive equipment. that I worked my arse off to buy over two years.

You can all be as pissed off as you like, but can't see where I'm coming from

I think some of you guys, other than my friends have no idea, you try and invest $20,000 into something and get an offer for $8000.00 and tell me differently. :sadeyes:

Yep, I'm pissed off, :sadeyes: but I'm back soon, ;) Thanks Doug, :thumbsup: another Doug, :thumbsup: and Chris, :thumbsup: and H, :thumbsup: and all my mates. :thumbsup:

Leon :thumbsup:

PS. and you know what I don't need the money, I can afford this rig 6 times over :mad2:

[PeterM]

Leon we all know how you feel it has happened to probably most here at sometime. Some have got a great bargain buy, some have lost through having to sell, some just hung onto their gear. I paid "this" for it means zip when it comes to selling anything as for most buyers it goes in one ear and out the other, either someone wants it or they don't. You wisely noted in your add you were prepared to wait 4 weeks, yet only 1 has gone by and now because someone upset you with an offer of $8000 (which is a starting point at least, to which you presumably tried to negotiate up or just said no) you have now decided on who are mates and the rest have no idea and presumably are not mates? That is not a fair comment from someone I have read many wise words from.
But why did it even have to make it this far into a debate, I just don't get it.
P.S. Just hang in there and someone somewhere will want your great gear at a price you are happy with.
And all the very best for christmas and 2010.

PeterM.

[dugnsuz]

Leon - Take a deep breath buddy, count to 10 ;) - there will always be dudes with necks of brass out to push the best deal they can wangle!

Paul - I think Leon's price was fair - anyone who has bought gear from him would know the degree of care he takes with his gear (granted, tyre kickers might not). One would be essentially purchasing an "as new" FSQ/G11 rig for $6K+ less than cost. If I had the available cash we wouldn't be posting in this thread I can tell ya! But alas...

Doug:)

[spacezebra]

Hang in there Leon! Cheers Petra d.

[Jen]

:eyepop: im so glad Leon thats the best decision you made all year (accept for going to Snake Valley to go meet Jen :lol:)

:clap::clap::clap:

Good on ya Leon those toys are your pride and joy keep em forever :thumbsup:
No one will ever appreciate them as much as you do :thumbsup:

Just have a good break the stars will be there when ya come back buddy ;) All the best and keep in touch ok Tangle-foot :lol: :D

:cool:

[leon]

Jen,you are just, :shrug: what do I say, :shrug: Loveable, thank you. xx :):)

And to the other people here, I did 99% of the talk back with private PM's.

Leon :thumbsup:

[jjjnettie]

And all this shall pass........

[GeoffW1]

Deleted by author, was off-topic.

[GeoffW1]

.......like on King Solomon's ring :)

[Tandum]

They are out there Leon. I've had PM's from people with a zero post count asking for gear I'm selling for half of what I've listed it for. As for the car comparison someone posted, dropping by 20% on purchase, not true. 18% per year is the AU tax office rate for depreciation on motor vehicles at the moment. Takahashi scopes are not motor vehicles. Motor vehicles wear out over time. If you don't need the cash, keep it. I won't be selling mine, it took too much effort to get them and they perform flawlessly.

[matt]

:thumbsup:

[Jen]

;););)

[Miaplacidus]

I'm happy for you, Leon. And I know what you mean. I once had my Equanimity up for what sale at what everybody agreed was a fair price, but some mean sod insisted I was greedy and demanded that I sell it to them at much less than even half what it'd cost me. Well, of course I just said no, but by then they'd taken it all anyway.

[Hagar]

Deleted by author. Not worth the effort.

[PCH]

Hi,

I never get involved in these types of threads as it's too easy to upset people. But as a general comment I see here two groups of people, ... those that side with the OP re his desire to get his price, and those that think it's fair play to get the best value possible.

I'd just like to say that I would guess (and I may be wrong - but I don't think so!) that all of the people who have commented on either side, would have absolutely no qualms about going into Hardly Normals (eg), and battering them down relentlessly for the best possible price. And if your price expectation is too low, you'd just expect the shop assistant to offer a polite 'No'. And that would be the end of the story. Go somewhere else or arrive at a compromise. You wouldn't expect them to get stirred up at your 'cheek' and start carrying on about hard earned cash etc.

Why is it different here? Those that know Leon, but don't want to buy his gear, seem to want the best for him, and applaud his stand. While those that don't know him probably don't overly care either way for his feelings. But all of those that make an offer simply want the best possible deal for THEIR hard earned cash - just like at HN. I'd be fairly sure Leon called a couple of places for the best deal. It's what we do isn't it?

Well, sorry if anyone is offended, it wasn't my intention.

Merry Christmas all.

[astronut]

Leon,
You don't need me to tell you that you've done the right thing.....but you have.
It can be very disaapointing the way people behave, that unfortunately is human behaviour.........warts & all!!
We have a few of those type on the climate change thread.:lol:

[iceman]

Come off it you two. Posts deleted. Take it to PM. Noone else wants to read it.

[avandonk]

I think some people are really tacky!

Bert

[GeoffW1]

Hi,

Paul, thanks, I think it is an excellent summary of the situation. In future I'll also be a lot slower to post any opinion like I did above. It is just too upsetting. Apologies to anyone who believes I got too close to trolling, that was not the idea.

Cheers

[pmrid]

Leon, you've been nothing but frieldly, patient and supportive to me during my short but steep learning curve through these forums and this hobby. I have appreciated your comments and help and wish you well. Perhaps keeping your rig isn't all bad. As your tagline says, life is too short to look through bad glass.

cheers

peter

[Zaps]

Seller goes high, buyer goes low. Welcome to Capitalism, my friend! ;)

[suma126]

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP OVER THE YEAR LEON AND BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR NEXT ADVENTURE :hi:

[Satchmo]

It seems to me that its more commonly on IIS that its the astrophotographers who amass huge quantities of valuable gear that need to take a break from the hobby ( often with some kind of a farewell from IIS forum ) and try and usually recoup some money , often because the hobby seams not to be delivering satisfaction commensurate with the equipment investment, or that the effort to get value out of the investment becomes or seems too much. ( and I am not saying this is necessarily Leon's case I don't know) .

Visual observers usually have a much smaller investment in equipment that they feel owes them nothing. As interest ebbs and flows the visual scope sits quietly awaiting inspiration from the owner. I've found this the case in my 35 years of amateur astronomy with very little investment in equipment.

Mark

[multiweb]

I agree with that statement. Astro gear can be extremely expensive and you can't expect to get the same resale value. If you go the full length then it's best to hang on to it. I have never spent much on mine as it's only a hobby. It's more a case of getting the most enjoyment out of what you got and it gets the job done to a level I can live with and most importantly I am happy with. No more no less.

[Rob_K]

Good onya Leon, don't think you'll regret hanging onto the gear in the long run! :thumbsup:

For anyone who wants to know the real value of their precious astronomy gear, take it to Cash Converters. It's Christmas time, so spare a thought for all those people who have fallen on hard times through the year, and in desperation have had no choice but to flog off the assets they've acquired through hard work and sweat.

Cheers -

[JethroB76]

I love a good farewell, usually followed fairly quickly by a return announcement:lol:

[multiweb]

:lol: not wrong. Sounds like the "last KISS concert" in oz ... every other year for the last 10yrs :P

[jjjnettie]

It's the first step in finally realising that this isn't just a hobby, it's an addiction.:P

[scarper]

Hey Leon good luck with the new direction.

Unfortunatley I have found that selling equipment on forums such as IIS(no disrespect meant) will not get the prices you want, there will always be idiots who think that you are one and will give stuff away for a song.

I am glad you are keeping your equipment as sometimes regrets will creep in after the event.......pack it away and leave it for a few months....when you return you will have a renewed interest in it....i have done this with photography and I have still yet to pick up my camera in any serious way.

Good Luck

Marty

[Paddy]

Just glad to hear that you've still got your gear, Leon. Look forward to catching up with you at Snake Valley or elsewhere sometime. All the best.

[matt]

:lol:There certainly have been a few of those.

I'm never quite sure what the announcer's expecting when they trumpet their departure/return?

Why not just let those that matter know via pm and then, sort of, go....quietly.

If anyone asks where you've gone, someone that knows you will be able to update those that care as to their whereabouts and current preoccupations.

[marki]

Surely a PM along the lines of "thank you for your interest but your offer is not suitable" would do the trick. Obviously you are still passionate about your gear Leon, best to just hang on to it me thinks.

Mark

[leon]

Thank You people for your concern and comments I have read all of them many times and have thought very hard of what will be next.

I am not going just yet, but will take a break for a while.

Mark, I think you have hit the nail on the head with your comments.

It is hugely expensive to do imaging than it is to be a casual visual person, and it can ( well at least with me ) be a huge learning curve, and sometimes become just to bloody hard.

I only started this a few years ago at 57 years old, you young people are born with computers and the like.

Although I found it very interesting, and still do I sometimes find I just cant keep up, not that I have to, but would like to.

I really do love my hobby, I was a visual person for many years before this but found imaging on the old film my passion, not that was easy either.

Anyway, guys, have a beaut Christmas with your loved ones and I'll catch up over the next year.

Leon

[jjjnettie]

Best wishes to both you and Alice.
You know that this forum wouldn't be the same without you.

[matt]

Merry Xmas to you too, Leon.

All the best with whatever you choose to do. I hope it brings you much happiness.

Never forget that sometimes words written on a website don't carry the true warmth and regard with which the words are written. And a lot depends on the mood and place we are in at the time in how we interpret what's written.

People can still be your 'mates', even if they don't agree with what you are saying or the words they use to express themselves.

Again, kind wishes to you and yours for this Festive season...and hopefully we'll see you around:)

Matt.

[leon]

You will Matt, thank you.


Leon