Forum Experiment - Mind and Intent

[Nesti]

Hi All,

I would like to know if anyone would be interested in being part of a forum experiment.

The experiment itself would be to test whether intent actually brings change as I have purported in my thread posts. I have been straight forward in showing a connection that I feel exists between conscious intent and matter, and now I would like to show you first hand what it feels like.

The objective would be to see what percentage of the willing forum population can actually change part of their life (make sure it’s positive in nature will ya!), using nothing but intent and within a 1 week period. You would need to be prepared to do a simple series of tasks which take about 5-10min max once a day for 5 days.

As a benchmark, I will be asking you to make the same change using normal thought, and see if anything happens over 1 week. After a few days of practicing the technique, we can conduct the second half; a week performing the learned tasks and then see if there is any difference between the first week and the results of the second week. Sound fair?

We've had a few threads which eventuated in a little bit of friction. So, I'm prepared to put my belief on the line and conduct an honest and if you wish, an anonymous 'Poll' at the end of the 2 week period. If you wish to add comments with your Poll vote, you can do so. Negative or positive is irrelevant.

I have a 3000+ year old technique developed by Yogis which involves a very simple series of tasks. I have written them in a simple to understand series of steps. They involve visualization techniques and controlled breathing. I have used them many times and it is totally harmless.

Should we go ahead, we will be testing whether conscious intent can deliver physical change. I’m sure you will agree that this is perhaps the most difficult, if not impossible, experiment we could carry-out. So it should be quite interesting. I teach people this in the book, so showing you now is no big deal.

We will need at least 25 people to make some sort of difference.

It's not often someone puts their proverbial money where their mouth is, so here's the opportunity to see for yourself.

Everyone will need to be 100% honest and not lie about whatever happens. If you agree to do it honestly and openly, then lie…well if you saw a change and lied you'll know karma may be real too. If you are 100% honest then you'll feel good that you played a part in something quite different.

Remember, we will need at least 25 people. We don’t get the numbers, we don’t conduct it, simple.

If a moderator objects to a forum experiment, then so be it.

If it shows some of you evidence, don’t expect me to say “I told you so”, likewise, if you see no evidence, I don’t expect you to say “I told you so”.

I’m confident no other forum on the planet will have done this.

Ladies are more than welcome to do this; they’re usually much better at it than guys.

Feel free to ask questions.

If you are willing, so I can easily count numbers, post a response I'M IN at the top of your post please.

Cheers
Mark

[Octane]

In for the win.

Regards,
Humayun

[kinetic]

Mark, mind and intent?.
I've only got a 4 man tent, is that ok? :D

Sorry, couldn't resist....

I'll give it a go...
+1

Steve

[Nesti]

Cool guys, that's 2 in as many minutes.

Tent?! ...:rolleyes:

[MrB]

So... Are all 25+ people going to be trying to physicaly change one common object/subject, or are the 25+ individuals working on their own chosen object/subject?

[Nesti]

No, each person will be focusing on something that they and only they will know about. I don't care if it's something like running into a friend you haven't seen for 20 years...so long as they're alive...I can't change the impossible, just affect the possible.

It doesn't get any more tailored than this.

Make sense?

You in or out?

[Davros]

Could be interested

[renormalised]

In like Flynn:D

[Nesti]

Sounds good to me, that's 3.


Carl, don't read the steps as yet, but can you please verify for everyone that there is indeed a 7 step procedure on page 99 of the manuscript, and that it does contain the word Qi, as in Chi energy. Because that's what we will be building.

Just to show people that this is not a prank...I think Mick may be a unsure of my intent (pardon the pun).

[renormalised]

Just tried to open the book but it's a .rar executable file and the comp won't load it at all.

[Nesti]

PDF on its way.

[MrB]

:eyepop:



Untill I saw the above, I was in.

[TrevorW]

Open mind

why not

[xelasnave]

I could be in but I already believe that thought changes reality.

I do it all the time.

No one will admit it but we all have our particular beliefs that guide our choices... and so it is not so mystical really... if one focuses thought on getting something then one is more open to opportunity that may see that reality present in er reality.

The boat I recently purchaser has been in my minds eye for as long as can recall my interest in sailing..conincidence ..maybe... but it is the boat I dreamed of..even has tan sails..that is rare...other little things like that...those little pins on the mast like the press gangs used... very rare but that whgat I always wanted..portholes same...

The crazy lady came from visualising someone who could live out our way in the bush without the things ladies always demand..

I said to my mate we needed two of them and guess what two eventually turned up..we should have been more specific on just how non conventional they were to be but mostly they were exactly what we imagined...now it was not magic or anything mystical it was in talking about such we formed the idea it would be cool and so when a poor lady happened by (unusual way out where I am admittedly and the only visitor in litterally years) we convinced her (and she convinced another) that we were into a cool trip and they would do well to be invloved...they did.

I now will her to be gone but that is not working so well to date but it will...one thing is for sure she wont be in my reality even if I have to move..

Vissualising works but not like "the secret" etc suggests.... it is simply a matter of what the mind can concieve the mind will achieve..I feel anyways.

I have done courses where you played your goals over music repeatedly to change stuff and believe me that worked ... I really believe there are two sides of the mind..one that rationalises and limits what we can do and the other "dreaming" side (call it the subconscieious ( although that word should be limited to my contextual use herein)).. One side relies on fact and limits our actions whereas the other believes what we tell it... When younger I could beat all comers in arm wrestling.. not because I am strong ..far from it..but because I would talk myself into it..telling myself about how mothers could lift cars off babies, epelectics who prooved mussel power can break our bones and a belief that we only use 10% of mussle power...so if needed calling on that unused power I could beat any opponent... well I di and it was the mind doing that not the body..in my belief...but it sure worked for me.
alex

[Gargoyle_Steve]

There's a few things in my life I'd like to try to change, so I'm willing to try this experiment.

One of those things I do want to change is how little time in my life I seem to have to do anything except work and sleep and "recover" from 12 hour shifts - so I need to ask will I have to actually READ the entire 99 page (or larger) document?

To put it simply, I won't have time to read anything that size. I haven't read a single whole book in the last 4 or 5 years I guess, Sad, isn't it? I just can't find the time anymore. I used to read every night, at least a book or 2 a week. These days I'm lucky to skim through an astro mag long enough to look at all the pictures, let alone read the articles.

[Rod66]

count me in

[FredSnerd]

OK Im in

[Benno85]

Count me in mate

[multiweb]

Already made a big change in my life. Hit the gym at 6:00am 4 times a week. 8kg to lose in 8 weeks before Xmas. I don't know if a conscious change can change my life but I sure can't feel my arms anymore :lol:

[Kal]

Count me in. I know the perfect thing to meditate towards changing too.

[Nesti]

You will need to read 1 - 2 pages tops.

Is that okay...in or out?

[Nesti]

1-2 pages mate, simple stuff.

You in or out?

[renormalised]

And to confirm Mark's 7 points, they are, indeed, on page 99 of the book. All we have to do is cut and paste them here so everyone can read them.

[Nesti]

Thanks Carl.

Correct, I'll cut-n-paste them into another thread and write the final piece on how to initiate the mechanism (mechanism in that you can set a time-frame for when you want such-n-such to happen).

Still need lots more people, people!

[DJDD]

I'm in

three questions:

1. what sort of things are we looking to change,
e.g.. become better at something (e.g. a language)
or obtain something like a new car?
or move something with our mind (jedi-style)


2. what does it mean if the results are positive?

3. what does it mean if the results are negative?

[Nesti]

Cool.

1. Don't expect to become an astronaut...it needs to be something that you are in a position to have or experience. Try not to be specific in how you attain it, nature will tackle that, only what you wish to have or experience. Asking for a new car is fine. Don't expect to get it for free though, just expect that something may happen which puts you in the position to attain it without much effort. Example: a student who is broke would really like to visit home for christmas but the airfare costs too much. Student asks that this be resolved. The student uses the techniques, and then the student must be open and observant watching-out for what comes their way...get it? In your case, if you only have the money for 1/2 a new car, then run with that. I will give you instructions on HOW to do it in due course. A new car for free is a tall order, but not impossible...someone may gift it to you (you'll need some good karma in that case).

2. If positive, it's a positive result, you somehow get what you asked for, somehow, that's all.

3. If negative, it's a negative result, nothing happens, that's all.

What we are looking for is a group trend, an increase from our initial baseline testing, the first week as opposed to the second week.

Not everyone will get what they ask...but that's not the point...we just want to see a difference between thinking it in the first run against using the tools I provide in the second run.

Make sense?

Many people on this planet are good people. They clock-up good karma (if that's what it is) into their karma-bank daily. What these people are missing is only the knowledge of how to MAKE A WITHDRAWAL, that's all !

[DJDD]

ok, so we won't learn any jedi mind tricks? :( :D

anyway, I'm in.

[Nesti]

LOL,

Sorry mate, that's just a movie...there's no convincing people that you may pass a road block, have access to castle of the 'Hut', or lifting X-Wing fighters out of Dagobah swamps.

This is purely based upon what is actually possible for you...but somehow it never seems to come your way.

We will be influencing events and interactions within our lightcone as I have described within my posts, nothing more.

[Nesti]

News flash!

For two weeks I've been asking for more numbers for my book launch in late Jan 2010. I can get around 150-200 myself but want to pack the people in for more excitement.

I stopped off at my usual cafe after a bike ride and had a coffee.

A guy I see there regularly was there and we had a chat. I invited him and his partner to the launch. He asked what it was about and I told him.

He told me that he works for a movie production studio in Hollywood and looks after business here in Aust. He wants to promote it through his database of usual clients...he can get me another 100-200 people to attend. I look good, he looks good and everyone that goes will should have a great cocktail evening. Win-win!!!

THAT is the type of request/outcome example which you need to be looking for...no, you cannot have a Melbourne Cup winner.

[renormalised]

Jedi mind trick...load of tosh!!!, What Luke didn't notice was that Obi Wan slipped the Imperial soldier a bag full of credits:P:P:D:D

Then again, I suppose a big enough bribe would play "tricks" on anyone's mind:P:P:D:D

[Gallifreyboy]

Sorry to be a party pooper, but the premise that 25 self selecting subjects with anonymous self reported fulfilment of secret thoughts is scientific....please. There is more accurate science in the TV shopping network ads. At best this is mildly entertaining for people with time on their hands, the agenda behind this may be a lot more than that....anybody for a free personality test....

Is IIS forums the place to recruit people for this?

[Nesti]

Of course it is...the IIS forum was were the issue originated. You're in the 'General Chat' section ya know.

"free personality test"...I've never had anything to do with Scientology. The technique I'm referring to comes from early Hinduism.

In essence I was asked to put-up or shut-up...I chose to put-up...and you're trying to block my attempt to show people that what I'm saying has merit and to defend my case which I had previously put forward.

I'm prepared to be right, and more importantly, I'm prepared to be wrong...what are you doing, just throwing rocks and kicking tires???

It seems this forum contains 50% people which want to learn something and 50% people who just want to have an argument about anything. At the end of the day I lose nothing whichever way it goes.

[White Rabbit]

Yeah I'm in, although it sounds a lot like the "what the bleep" or "The Secret" to me.....

but hey if it can help me focus on changing things then yeah, I'm in.

[Shano592]

Marc, just get a bout of gastro, and that 8kg will be gone overnight!

:D

[Nesti]

Yes, it does sound along the same line, I will admit that. Which is my greatest hurdle...the concept has been abused.


You've got to remember though, that the two things you mentioned were actually a 'Marketing Phenomenon', and with almost no content. Both have been criticized with misrepresenting science and people's interviews in their making.

What I have tried to do is offer a possible mechanism with which intent connects with matter. Ana actual physical model of the connection. A far cry from just pointing to x, y and z, and saying that they are intrinsically connected…somehow!

I’m not out to prove anything, you can’t, I just want to show a correlation, a trend.

Great that you’re in.

Cheers

[Nesti]

Holographic Gastro ??? That's scary!

[Nesti]

Half way mark past...that's 13 so far.

No ladies yet I see?!

[FredSnerd]

Mark

I was under the impression that this was just some sort of impromptu informal experiment you were doing. But I’m not so sure now that this is what this is. It appears that maybe you may wish to make your results of this public in some way to ultimately promote your “theory”/religion. If so I don’t want to be involved. I think maybe you should spell out for people what use you intend to make of the “results” of this exercise . And most importantly what methodology you propose for determining your results. For example where someone wills themselves to get a car and instead they win $100 in lotto are you going to say that they got what they wanted. And I’m not talking about whether you intend to make peoples name public but whether you intend to make the results (as you determine them to be) public. I gave up religion/sprituality years ago and I hope you can understand that I’m not going to be party to helping put that monkey on peoples back again.



regards


Claude

[Nesti]

I'm doing it to prove my point to people on this forum that there's more out there than just what science tells us there is.

2 dozen people on a forum is nothing to go public with. LOL I can get 500 with a small ad in the Nova magazine.

Your call.

[DJDD]

since I do not actually believe there is "more out there" will that invalidate the results? that is, do I need to believe there may be more out there?

I am not a paid up member of the sceptics society but...


and I would prefer to learn how to do jedi mind tricks as what you have said earlier does sound a bit like "The Secret"...

actually, i am in the middle of exams so will not be able to devote much/any time to do this.

so, I will have to pull out. Sorry, Nesti. :(

[FredSnerd]

No not me thanks. But I would appreciate you sending me out your blurb on how you intend to run and assess the experiment. Since you intend by this exercise to prove your theory I assume you would have no objection to showing those you intend to convince the methodology by which you intend to convince them. Deal???

regards

Claude

[Nesti]

Hi Claude,

I wrote that I wanted to prove my point, not my theory...I don't have a theory in the first place, I have a suggestion, and I've been saying that all along.

If we run it, and I have set conditions, then everything will be viewable on the threads.

Also, this is just a chat forum, it's not a controlled environment, and as such it must rely upon people's honesty. It's not a science experiment, it's a forum experiment, with the single aim of showing, to the individual (since it is subjective), that there is more out there than what we know. Nothing more.

At the end of the day, if it's too difficult for people to just have a go, then essentially it's all about nit-picking of details within procedure rather than sharing with others what people have experienced in their travels.

If that is indeed the case, then the IIS forum would essentially be a waste of time and energy for me, as I can always spend more time nit-picking with Government in my job. But, I have seen a dozen people already who are willing to have a go and have some fun...and it is fun to see it work or fail.

I have no problem being wrong, or looking like an idiot on a forum. The main point of forums are to share ideas and inputs with others...otherwise, what's the point in investing time and energy into a forum where people are closed-off, insular or scared of experiencing something new? A few people so far think this might be fun or a worthy experience...that's a good thing.

I'm here because I like Astronomy, Science and I have opinions which I like swapping with others. If this forum turns out to be the opposite of what I'm looking for, I'm outa here rather than wasting my valuable time.

Cheers
Mark

[FredSnerd]

Mark

If others are keen to do this its got nothing to do with me. But if you ultimately intend to offer this as proof of anything (and you have said a few times that you’re doing this to prove a point) then you need to show people how you arrived or intend to arrive at your results. Its up to you but I don’t think its such a big deal to send out your procedures blurb to anyone interested, even if they’re not prepared to do the experiment at this stage.

[multiweb]

Nah... you put it on slowly, it has to come off slowly. No pain, no gain. ;)

[Chippy]

I'll give it a try.

[bojan]

Being alive on this world for a just bit more than 59 years, all I can comment about attempts like this is only :zzz2:

If my life has been different, then maybe I would've had other opinion, but in a given circumstances.. No.

[styleman333]

Yo Mark

Count me in :thumbsup:, dont know why ppl wanna rubbish ya :screwy:, its a experiment , surely the ppl that come to this site understand that if the great dudes of the past didnt think outside the box , we wouldnt have what we have today ...

Dont believe in that sorta stuff too much but hey im open to stuff :P

good on ya mate , get me that ferrari :thumbsup:

[Rod66]

Are you going to have a control group, ie a group that doesn't think about things to happen, but they happen anyway. How are you going to prove that the things that happen to us are a direct result of this technique, ie why wouldn't they happen anyway.. You'd have to clone me I suspect...

I feel this experiment is already flawed - remember the person measuring the outcome may in fact influence the outcome by the very act of measuring the outcome. Just how is it you expect to prove something again..??

Rod

[Nesti]

OMG! What's "flawed" around here is the anal retentiveness of the minority of the forum. What it needs is a forum enema.

I'll say it without any ambiguity; this is a subjective fun experiment for those who want to participate. For those who want to employ anally retentive scientific measures, tell ya story walkin!

I wish to show, only to those who participate, that a difference is noticeable. For those who do not want to participate, I don't care whether you see flaw, bugger off.

What this forum needs is some fun, not more choked-up dialog.

Clear enough?! :lol:

[Gargoyle_Steve]

I'm in.

For the record I'm about as far away from being a believer in anything new age / mystical / supernatural / alternate spirituality as it's possible o be. I commonly tell friends that Science is my religion, and in a very real way it is, because there is nothing in the universe that I have complete and unshakable faith in except for the Laws of Physics and other scientific truths.

So why am I in? Because there are a couple of things in my life right now that I do want to change, and whether it be by focusing my thoughts on them and perhaps creating my own "Self fulfilling prophecy", or through the old Jedi mind trick, if I can change one of these things for the better then that to ME is a positive result.

Bring it on Mark.

[Nesti]

Keep science as your religion.

Welcome aboard.

[Rod66]

Hit a raw nerve did I. Ok I'll stay out of it if you're not into any thought provoking debate. Sounds pointless, now that you've managed to explain a few more of the details.:shrug:

How you notice a difference appears to be completely subjective (your comment not mine) so I don't get how you confirm any real difference as a result of what you're doing. Enough said. Have fun. :screwy:

Now where did I put my forum enema...

[GrahamL]

I'll watch thanks

good luck to all who participate.

when do books 2&3 get released Mark ?
http://www.stillpointinstitute.com.au/htm/products_new_releases.htm

[renormalised]

I thought I cleared that up earlier. That was Obi Wan passing the Imperial soldier an bag full of credits. One discreet bribe (of a substantial amount) and anyone could do as they please:P:P:D:D

[renormalised]

Be very careful about allowing anything to become "your religion", science included. You're liable to become very disappointed with what you find or what transpires. No law is immutable and truths are subjective, no matter what they're about. The ethics that applies today may not apply tomorrow and the only real thing you can be certain about is that things change.

[Nesti]

LOL, Loooong story short. I've been thinking about that myself. At the moment its 18mths for #2 then another 18mths for #3 (it's a lot of work). Likely to be interrupted tho. Been asked to write a book on Tibetan Ayurvedic Medicine under the Sera Jey Monastery and StillPoint joint banner...a 2500yo text book is being transcribed for the first time. Pictures & everything. Request came from the office of the head honcho. Partner just secured [global] rights for all teachings and courses.

You playing CSI investigator??? I feel violated! :D

[rat156]

Unfortunately there is no possible experiment that would prove this dogma correct. Like most religious/mystic/spiritualistic beliefs they are based on people's perceptions of reality. If you can change that perception, you can change people's reality.

Steve, on a more serious note, seek help. If there are things that can be changed but that aren't happening for you, someone out there can help. If it can't be changed, then no amount of hoping or positive thinking will help I'm afraid. Sometimes an ear to bend can make you fell at least a bit better about life, sometimes just verbalising the problem diminishes it, a problem shared is a problem halved.

I'm not going to participate in this, not because it's not scientific (those that know me know I'm a bit of a stickler over this), but because it's promoting something which I believe is and has always been a sham. People may say that it's harmless, but I saw a story on the telly the other week about a young girl with an aggressive form of cancer who's parents had removed her from care because her Grandmother's tea (and a lot of prayer to a church) would cure her. When the child dies, they'll say it was God's will. Well I don't subscribe to any of this mysticism, old or new Age, it hurts people, it gives them false hope, it kills.

Cheers
Stuart

[Nesti]

I agree with what you've said here. When we get cancer patients, we work-in with their treatments. In these situations we work simply on reducing the side-affects of treatment, 'Chemo' for instance is damaging, but for the most part, a necessary evil. That's why we get referrals from Oncology Departments, not because were an alternative to what they do, but that we offer a reduction to the affects. We even have volunteers working at the hospital for those who request.

Telling somebody don't go through the medical system is insane. Illnesses like cancer are tough, they run from one bodily system to the next. Positive thinking and Intent can't stop bullets.

BTW, we don't have a religion, we don't profess to replace any medical treatment whatsoever...I think there are some general assumptions within people's minds which may be incorrect.

Cheers
Mark

[TrevorW]

Hey guys keep an open mind I don't think Mark is suggesting people stop their prescribed medication etc

If you want to have a go, then just do it

I also don't think he is subscribing we join a cult or the Church of Scientology

Remember

"nothing ventured nothing gained"
"he who procrasinates miss'es the boat"
"curiosity killed the cat, (so we are safe) but bugger the cat"

"Knowledge is not inherently genetic, we learn from our willingness to to explore the things we don't understand, through trial and error correcting all those mistakes we make along the way, forever learning until the day we die"

[Ric]

Hi Mark

Any spots left?

If so count me in.

Cheers

[renormalised]

Must be a friend of Schrodinger:P:P:D:D

[Nesti]

There's always spots left.

Just tied up checking proofs ATM...short answers.

[PCH]

Hi Mark

some fairly negative vibes being aired here. But I'm game to try whatever it is that you have in mind. Count me in :thumbsup:

[Nesti]

Got PM’d a good question about what we will be doing.

Answer:

I will post 5 threads;
1. Current thread: introduce the idea and get participants.

2. Next thread: get participants to think of something they want changed which is TOTALLY out of their control but is physically possible and not ridiculous. Wait a week or so for it to happen or not.

If it didn’t eventuate, participant proceeds further. If it did think of something else…more remote this the second time.

3. Next thread: instruct participants on how to do the technique and allow a few days for them to practice and get comfortable with it.

4. Next thread: instruct participants on how to apply the technique to change that certain something out of their control. Conduct technique every day for 7 days (takes 5min tops).

5. Next thread: people can share whatever happened; nothing, something, perhaps not sure. We can do a poll, but that will be played with by somebody I'm sure - there's always one trickster!

The technique itself is so simple a child can do it.
It involves the following: breathing normally but deeper, focus on a point between the hands (palms facing each other) and then visualize what you want changed. Then, you visualize the focus point moving off on its way to make whatever changes you want doing...apart from a few minor details that I will write up properly (how to breathe, exactly how to visualize, what the hands have to do with it etc), that's all there is to it.

So simple it seems stupid
(don't any sticks-in-the-mud even think about replying to that last word)

[Jazza11]

Count me in!