Download limits on Broadband

[Ian Robinson]

I've it on good authority people in the USA get unlimited downloads/uploads (no surplus charges/shaping) with their plans for under 50USD.

Begs the question .... why is it that upload/download limits are applied here in Australia ?

Anyone here been caught out by exceeding their download / upload limits ? what happened ?

(I have a monthly limit of 29GB and I exceeded it this month, I've had my ADSL service shaped (is woefully slow right now .... so not worth while downloading large files until next month, I have heard horror stories of people getting monthly bills of thousands of $ when they exceeded their broadband monthly up/download limits.)

[Kal]

The fibre optic cables under the sea that connect australia to asia, and then onto the rest of the world, cost money, therefore providing a broadband connection with decent international bandwidth will cost more money in Australia compared to the US. Also, they have a much denser population market compared to Australia. Providing services in major centres like Sydney/Melbourne is offset by the costs of providing infrastructure to country areas.

[acropolite]

What Andrew says is true to a point, but most countries throughout the world have cheaper rates than we do, IMO it's more about real competition (in the carrier market) or rather the lack of it.

[mswhin63]

Australia population does not allow for a cost effective infrastructure. Consequently there is not enough bandwith available in Australia and thus limits on data access.

My Bigpond is shaped @ 25G when it exceeds. So it doesn't cost me extra but is annoyingly slow.

As the technology grows in Oz the data bandwith increases with responsible ISP's like IINET and other whereas selfish money hungry Telstra and Optus providers continue to use the excuses. Hopefully the splitting of Telstra Whoesale and Retail may allows better competition and larger data access where necessary.

[Kevnool]

When i go over 40 gig my speed just slows down to dail up speed.
No extra charges.

Cheers Kev.

[[1ponders]]

How does anyone exceed 29gig in a month? I have 1 gig peak and 4 off peak and have never exceeded either. What do people download????

[mswhin63]

Astronomy video and podcasts.

[Waxing_Gibbous]

Canada is in the same situation as Australia - huge country, few people and still manages to get GBPS broadband in the sticks at about 1/3 the cost of here. Even Kenya, Nigeria, Khazakstan and Lithuania all have faster, cheaper broadband than Austalia.
I don't know where Kal got the idea that there is infrastructure in county areas, our nearest transmitter is 100K away! Its not even a proper transmitter - just a relay station!
Apart from just out 'n out unregulated money-grubbing, one reason is that under the lpast gov't, there was a huge row over the public/private split, and whether competeing firms should pay for infrastructure. It also spent all its cash trying to buy-up or into foreign telcos and mobile co's.
Telstra, once a world leader in telecoms, stopped investing in high-speed:lol: internet, and are now playing catch-up.
Another reason is competition and ownership of infrastructure. Most telcos abroad shoulder some burden of owning/maintaining exchanges, towers etc, which spreads the costs over several parties.
I get caught out every month. Usually going over 200% of my allowance. I have to remind myself that Telstra's MBPS means Mega-Bits
not Mega-Bytes!
Yeah. In short, its pretty outrageous, but we continue to pay the charges
so they'll continue to charge the rates.:shrug:

[Kal]

We're paying for the infrastructure that isn't even adequately being provided :sadeyes:

[mswhin63]

Tell me about it, I live in a 4 year old suburb and have the slowest broadband because Telstra install a RIM to save money.

[Ian Robinson]

wrt to the furfey about cost of copper network infrastructure. No reason why ADSL and ADSL2 can't be delivered via the copper in the power lines that go to just about every house (no matter were you are) in the country.

I put this situation down to outright highway robbery by the providers.

[MrB]

Tell ME about it, I live in a major city(not far from Malcolm actually) and can't get any broadband.
Dialup or nuthin. Too far from the exchange.
Mobile Broadband? Don't make me laugh.
Besides it being a massive rip-off, I'm not even going to try it because my 3G mobile phone always says '2.5G' when I'm at home.

[Ian Robinson]

You'd think a new suburb (like your's would have had fibre to everyhouse installed as part of the installation of necessary infrastructure such as water, gas, electricity into the suburb).

[Ian Robinson]

Who's the provider and what plan is it ?

[Ian Robinson]

There's the rub, I haven't downloaded over 29Gb , but when downloading torrents (movies, TV series eps) apparently you also upload as much or more data as part of the torrenting process.

I was told when I queried it I'd uploaded over 10Gb .... that was news to me.
I was told that is added to the downloads I've done.

My son also visited for a few days and was using my ADSL modem via the Lan cable (I think those online games he likes are upload heavy too).

I'll limit the Vuze upload speed to the slowest possible when I get unshaped in a few weeks. That should reduce the uploading heaps.

[dpastern]

Piracy. Plain and simple.

Dave

[dpastern]

Unfortunately, with ADSL (and more especially, ADSL2+), distance rules. Anything more than around 4km cabling wise is going to be problematic with both noise and occupancy issues (not to mention attenuation). Telstra wholesale generally limits new connections - if you've applied for ADSL2+ and the speed is going to be less than a 1500 kbps connection, they'll reject it. If you're a certain distance or greater from the exchange, they'll automatically reject it too. Then there's pair gain (PGC) issues, RIM issues, etc. People take it for granted that they can get ADSL. The technology slows the further you are away from the exchange (it's just how it works, griping about it won't fix it or change it).

Dave

PS I work for an ISP - I see this all the time. And no, I work for a real ISP, not some lvl 1 craphead at Bigpond, sloptus etc that doesn't know what they're doing. I have full access to all our SIP servers, hosted webservers, hosted exchange server, sql dbase (both ms sql and mysql varieties), dns servers, and our core routers and switches (core router is a larger Redback, can serve up to 2 million connections, not a cheap piece of gear - I have full level 15 sysadmin access to said device, see how many bigpond techies have this level of access!).

[dpastern]

As an aside, until the monopoly that is Telstra is broken down (retail and wholesale components), and the infrastructure is removed from Telstra's ownership and given back to the people, these problems will continue.

Dave

[dpastern]

Ian - uploading doesn't count towards your download limit. If your ISP is counting your uploads, change ISPs, they are ripping you off.

If you've got a wireless modem, and you're using it wireless, make sure it's encrypted, preferably with WPA-PSK2 (not wep/wpa), so others can't piggyback and use your connection.

Dave

[Dennis]

Hi Paul

We’re on a mere 12gig plan and have just reached 80% of our allocated limit due to viewing on-line Photoshop training videos from Lynda.com.:thumbsup:

Upgrading from CS3 to CS4 gave me this 30 day free trial and I have been watching these very useful on-line tutorials for 3-4 hours at a time, several times a week. I hadn’t realised how much of my download bandwidth they chewed up!!!:thumbsup:

Cheers

Dennis

[sheeny]

When I was in town I was on unlimited ADSL for just under $50 a month (256kb/s) through ix.net.au.

Since I've moved out of town, I have no choice but satellite which does not have unlimited download plans. My history in town suggested I could get away with a 3GB plan, so that what we took. It turned out my 3GB plan was 3GB peak and 3GB off peak, however, the transmission rate went from 256kb/s up to 1Mb/s... great you'd think... well it's a double edged sword:P.

Firstly, on satellite both uploads and downloads count, not just downloads. Secondly, the faster speed means you actually download more during the time you're on the net... dare I say, the convenience means you do more surfing.

My provider has since changed plans to "unleashed", so the price went down:thumbsup: and we got 3GB peak plus 6GB off peak:D and the transmission rate went up to 4Mb/s:D... and so we still struggle to manage the peak traffic:rolleyes:. My problem is my two teenage step daughters - they love facebook and bebo etc. Of course I haven't helped matters by installing wireless network so there's no waiting to use a computer:rolleyes: :P.

:screwy:

Al.

[bobson]

Not piracy, my daughters somehow blew up 10 gig a month just by chating with the friends on messenger and such. Did you see how content rich is new messenger, and how big is the bloody software to install.

At the same time my brother who lives in Swiss got wireless plan for $29 Franks and no download limit!

Competition mate, thats what we need here. I remember when one British IT specialist called Australian broadband Froadband.

Wireless is the future not fiber nor coper.

Why do you think Cisco payed 52 milion dollars to Murdoch profesors for their MAN, hey its only MAN (Metropolitan Area Network).

Cisco reps are also very disappointed with Telstra and the rest.

[MrB]

Thanks, I'm fully aware of how it works.
BTW, Telstra had absolutely nothing to do with my NDSL application, except for(had it been approved)... pulling my copper wire out of their hardware and plugging it into someone elses.

Of all the people on IIS, YOU are telling me not to gripe? hahahahahaha :rofl:

[Kevnool]

Internode.....there based in adelaide.

www.internode.on.net (http://www.internode.on.net)

Cheers Kev.

[Kevnool]

Straight to the point.

[dpastern]

Al - satellite...you poor thing :(

Dave

[dpastern]

There's no way you'd use 10gb just chatting away on msn messenger. No way at all. I don't think your daughters are telling you the truth on what they use the Internet for ;-)

I guarantee that every kid under 25 is torrenting. It's rife (and illegal).

Dave

[dpastern]

I hate to tell you but it's very very likely that the PSTN is owned by Telstra. So, they highly likely have a hand in it. Then there's the local MDF, the exchange end (true, the DSLAM in question is not owned by Telstra I'd say). Just cos it's naked dsl doesn't mean there's no phone line infrastructure ;-)

Thanks for the snide remark.

Dave

[bobson]

David,

I agree, its not just chating on line that takes 10gb.

I know what you mean about piracy and the rest. But I am not beginner in this either. I was hoping to get a job just like yours but it wasn't to be.

I fully control what, where and when my kids go on the net. A few movie previews, a few youtube videos, a few video conferences and there you go.

I agree with you about Telstra.
At the same time its huge country we have.
But wireless is the future.

bob

[Jules76]

Just to clarify, Bittorrent is NOT illegal, it's what people are downloading using bittorrent which is. Bittorrent is just another download protocol (and a good one at that) which has been hijacked by pirates and unfortunately gets painted with the same brush.

[MrB]

True, the line was placed by Telstra(Telecom) many decades ago....
However, this:

Was what I was commenting on. I probably should have been more clear.

;)

[dpastern]

Yes, you are correct, and I realised the error in my prior post after I'd submitted it. Using bittorent to download pirated movies and music is illegal. Using bittorent to download legitimate items (as an example, Linux ISOs) is perfectly legal. That said, I guarantee that 99% of torrenting is involved with illegal items.

And - there are strong pushes from the RIAA/MPAA and their lackeys in the US to make bittorent illegal. If that happens, it'll almost certainly filter to Australia.

Dave

[dpastern]

Bob - there are jobs out there in the industry, keep looking! Smaller ISPs are a better go imho - you'll learn far more, and have far more access.

Telstra must be made legally accountable for their sins, but it seems that no government has the backbone to do so, and to do so in the right way.

There are ways around filters etc. Boot off a live Linux cd/dvd, mount the hdd, download content to it. voila.

Dave

[Ian Robinson]

When the FTA networks get rid of "reality TV" and wall to wall horse racing, zoom zooms and other crappy vision like wall to wall footy , cricket, tennis and the like, and start putting half decent programs on air.
I'll stop downloading.

Please don't go preaching to us about torrenting being illegal.

Downloading torrents for personal viewing is no worse than taping or recording on DVD or you TV's HDD those programs you want to watch later or missed.

[dpastern]

I think you'll find that no matter who the ISP, they'll auto reject connections pretty much similar to the manner that Telstra does. There's no point in giving a customer an ADSL connection that's 8 or 9km away from the exchange, and what will have massive noise/attenuation issues and thus require a strong profile against the connection, and a very slow speed. Customer's will usually whine long and hard about this. Better not to give it to them in the first place. When you order an ADSL connection, that's the maximum speed, it's not a guarantee that you'll get it. Most ISPs do generally try very hard to give you what you pay for.

:P

snide comment is all good Simon, I do see the funny side of it ;-)

Dave

[Davros]

Piracy moralistic high horses aside, our telcos are ripping us off blind. Lousy internet speed and download limitations plus useless mobile coverage. To quote the venerable Homer Simpson did we loose a war !!! When a Masai tribesman can check his stock prices on his broadband enabled mobile phone in the middle of the Omo valley and i cant even get phone signal 20kms from home i think there is a problem. I would like to have the American wireless internet access everywhere system.

[dpastern]

It's no worse, but it is still copyrighted material, and you are breaking the law by downloading it illegally. Most ISPs will let it slide if you get one infringement notice, but if you get a few, they'll cancel your service. Most of the companies hunting down infringers will tolerate one or 2 warnings to the same person, other than that, they'll take legal action against the ISP. No ISP will jeopardise their customers, or income, for just an individual. They'll terminate your service before they do that. Been there, and seen that.

If you use private trackers, you've got far less chance of getting caught. Piracy is piracy. You may not have strong morals, but I do. Stealing is stealing.

Dave

[MrB]

Yep, though the 'auto' part didn't reject me... their initial checks based on my phone number and my street address were great... took them almost two months after that to get back to me to say.. actually, no, you can't have it. :shrug:

[dpastern]

Was that Telstra bigpond Simon? If so, doesn't surprise me. Telstra's retail side is crap, their wholesale side is actually very good, far better than ZedRez or AAPT/powertel.

Dave

[MrB]

Thought we cleared that up already?
It was iiNET.

[MrB]

Hmmm, this might explain it...
At the time of my application, www.adsl2exchanges.com.au told me there were 35 ports free in my area.
It now reports 0 free ports.

[Kevnool]

Pull together fella,s.

[dannat]

i agree - the undersea cables are expensive but also the consortium make good money - its not easy to setup competition, when in KOrea at xmas - they had unlimited download very fast broadband & pay TV for less than we would pay for one service.
their internet was so cheap a few street market stalls would beam TV to their mobile in the slow periods/or just browse the net

[dpastern]

Sorry Simon, I suspected IINET, but wanted to make sure. Better to ask and be sure than to guess. Yeah, ports can disappear quickly. They'll probably put another DSLAM in the exchange if there's room to give them more ports.

Dave

[mithrandir]

Running "ADSL" over power lines generates huge amounts of RFI. Some bands become unusable. How would you like your digital TV reception to spend 90% of the time pixelated or even reporting "No Signal"?

[mithrandir]

Dave, should you know better than that. Torrents have the potential to be illegal. There are numerous legal uses of them.

Do you propose banning motor vehicles because some people drive drunk?

Andrew

[Ian Robinson]

That was illuminating Mr.B.

I'll definitely be talking to my ADSL IP about why my limit is 25GB (and I get shaped if I exceed that) while I can get 40GB (and get shaped if I exceed that elsewhere for the same price.
If they wont do a deal, I'll be ditching BigPond when my 2yr contract is ended and taking my business elsewhere.

[dpastern]

It's not a matter of what I propose Andrew (I don't think bittorents should be made illegal, irrespective of how people primarily use them, for the same reasons that you make with banning cars because some people drink drive), it's a matter of what the RIAA and MPAA want. They are 2 very very very powerful organisations, with very long arms of influence within the US administration. Since the US has many trade agreements, with many different countries, and most of these agreements mean adopting US style laws (reason why Australia legally recognises the US DMCA I might add), it'll trickle down to us. There's already talk of ARIA pushing to have it banned. Politicians are pretty stupid as a general rule, and very out of touch with both the real world, and technology I might add, and they're gullible, and on the take from big business as a general rule. 1 + 1 =2, it's quite elementary dear Watson.

And yes, I apologised for my earlier misdemeanour about saying that torrenting was illegal. :P

Dave

[Ian Robinson]

Really ?

Where did you read that ?

The RFI can be filtered out at the coax , or by using FFT filtering of the TV signal (wait .... we already have that in our STBs and Digital TVs and Digital TV DVDR boxes, problem already solved).

A big trial in Tassy went extremely well from what I read about it.

[dpastern]

That's about all you can do Ian. I think you're going to find that as time goes on, fewer and fewer ISPs are going to offer download plans more than 10GB or so. There's a tremendous amount of pressure from governments and big business to limit downloads, because there is a direct provable link between those who need such large amounts, and those that pirate software, music and movides.

I can't really do it on our Redback yet (we need to update the firmware), but on our other core routers (Ciscos), we can watch flows, in real time. I can see what internal IP address on your network, connects to which external IP address, on both sides ports. And I can deduce quite nicely what someone is doing. I generally wouldn't give a rats about it, but sometimes, we have customers ring us complaining "our Internet is really slow, your product is crap". And when you look at the flows, they're hammering the connection d/l crap lol. They get really quiet when you tell them that (politely of course).

Whilst this is real time, there's nothing stopping the police from subpoenering an ISP to track someones flows and using that as evidence. :eyepop:

For now, I'd look elsewhere. Westnet has a record for excellent technical and customer service, as well as good value. The ISP I work for (ECN) has very good tech and cust. service, but is pricier.

Dave

[dpastern]

Ian, it's not recommended to be filtering the crap out of the signal. Every time you filter, you lose data, and there are overheads that filtering causes. Better not to do it.

Most of the US's infrasctructure is poorer than ours believe it or not. It's older, and falling apart in a lot of instances. Our problem is that Telstra owns most of the infrastructure, and because it's now privatised, share holders don't want to 'waste' money fixing problems (less profits). Google CNI faults. Telstra has CNI faults nearing 10 years or even more - without being fixed (and they have no intentions of doing so I might add).

A few things that people don't generally know - in Australia, ISPs can't:

1) complain about other ISPs

2) complain about wholesalers

3) customers (end users) can only complain against their ISP, not their ISPs wholesaler, even if their ISP has done nothing wrong, and it's the wholesalers fault.

makes you think eh?

Dave

[AdrianF]

Sorry to butt in.....

BPL (Broadband over Power Lines) or PLT (Power Line Telecommunications) is a technology to enable the delivery of high speed data service over the power distribution system.
This technology injects high power, high frequency (typically between 2 and 80MHz) signals over the power distribution network to deliver high speed data services to homes and businesses. This type of BPL is termed "Access BPL". There is also "in-house BPL" which uses building wiring to distribute data service throughout a building. These systems are currently incompatible.
What is the Issue?
The issue is that there is a high potential for interference to the high frequency spectrum through the use of this technique. It has been described as "spectrum pollution". This is mainly due to the power distribution network not being an efficient and effective medium for the transmission of high frequency data services.
It creates interference to such a level that a HF spectrum user within the trial area cannot hear or transmit a signal. Due to the nature of the high frequency spectrum and its ability to propagate long distances, this interference can propagate around the world.
This causes great concern about this technology not only now but into the future when the sun-spot cycle improves propagation. The technology is also prone to interference from other transmitters in the area.

Adrian

[Ian Robinson]

I watched that program on (ABC ?? ) too and am aware of that rediculous situation , and I have written to my member of federal parliment about it. Too bad more aussies don't or can't be bothered doing similarly.

Yes I know how signal filtering works , I have studied analog and digital signal processing and several subjects focused on communications engineering (as part of my second BE).
I know about s/n ratios and the effects of filtering.

So I suspect do the TV broadcast engineers.

So what if the ADSL and ADSL2+ produce some induced RFI in the power lines, and how's that different to the induced RFI produced in the telecom copper network and phone lines that enter all our homes, or are transmitted by our PC and USB wireless adapters that many of us use to wirelessly connect several PCs in different rooms to a central ADSL / ADSL2+ modem ?

There is no need get personal about this either ....

[dpastern]

Ian - I wasn't aware that I was getting "personal" as you put it. I was simply replying to yours (and others) posts. If you interpreted it in another manner, such as a personal attack, then I'm sorry. That certainly wasn't my intention.

Dave

[mithrandir]

You are converting kilometres of 50Hz transmission wire (aka power lines) into radio transmitters. If were were talking underground power there is cable shielding, but generally speaking we are not. The projected use for this technology is overhead, with no shielding or other forms of RFI suppression.

[MrB]

I'll back that up, have been a Westnet(now owned by iiNET) customer since they advertised by putting up photocopied adverts in computer shop windows ;)
Before that I was an Up'N'Away(also recently acquired by iiNET) customer because they allowed multiple dial-ins to one account. Those were the days ;)

[AdrianF]

I'll back that up too I have been with Westnet for about 10 years(?) started with dialup and now broadband, I have tried others but went back to westnet after about 3 months.
Never had a problem that couldnt be fixed with 10 mins on the phone (all my fault by the way:ashamed:)

Adrian

[Ian Robinson]

We are talking a 5V or something as trivial (can't recall the V and I requirements over telecoms lines (phone lines) , been several years since I did the courses), which will be high kHz or low MHz superimposed on the 50Hz AC signal (power) .... trival signal intensity for any ADSL or ADSL2 leakage.

Take a look at the RJ11 or RJ12 cable coming out the wall and going to your modem or PC . It has no effect on the analog and digital TV picture , and that cable once it enters the house is unshielded too.

That wireless adapter has no effect either.

[Ian Robinson]

OK .... I'll accept that Dave.

[Terry B]

Why would a home user need so much download? I have a bigpond 12g limit (includes uploads) and don't reach that ever. This is even with my son playing online games. I do restrict video watching and we don't download illegal movies etc. The movies are better quality from the video shop anyway.

[Davros]

Dont forget there is a lot more out there than illegal movie downloads. I torrent, and i torrent free to air tv shows on the day of their release in the USA. I also watch a lot of docos etc. I generally hate tv but there is some excellent stuff out there aside from the mindless garbage they put on tv here in Oz.

[Ian Robinson]

How did I do it ;

I'm fed up with crappyvision .

I've torrented (downloaded) :
5 eps of Stargate Universe (1080p version files are 1.1Gb each) , 7 and 10 Networks are so broke they will probably never take up the franchise of SU )
10 eps of Defying Gravity (HD version files are 360Mb each) .... likely will never be aired here.
S01 of Andromeda (the file is 8Gb) .... will never be aired here .
Add the uploads that happen while downloading these torrents (7Gb)

iView stuff from ABC (downloads)
some Torchwood Eps
some Doctor Who Eps
4Corners
Hornblower Eps
(my IP counts these , I believe some other IPs don't).


That's how I accumulated about 29Gb of downloads this month .... is easy to do on ADSL , and would be even easier on ADSL2.

I've friends in the USA who say most IPs allow unlimited downloads (no shaping , no charges for excess downloads) and limiting if it happens is at levels like 100Gb..... We're being ripped off here , especially by Telstra .



No movie downloads .... yet .... but if I find a movie I want to see , I'll not think twice about torrenting it . I object to paying through the nose to see them at the pictures , and usually wait for the movie to go to DVD and hire it for a night . Even better if it go onto FTA TV , taped lots of movies that way.

[mill]

My son play's Roblox online and when i look at the usage meter i see he downloaded about 100Mb per hour.
Then my doughter is on youtube and watches about another 60Mb per hour.
I am with iinet and the uploads are not counted but a lot of times we get capped at the end of the month in the peakhour slot.
I normally download missed tv episodes with bitorrent in the offpeak zone.
To make it short, Australia is so behind with broadband, i can't even get adsl2 where i am.

[Terry B]

You guys clearly watch too much TV.:lol:
I'd be lucky to watch 2 hours/week including the news. you need to spend more time under the stars.:)

[kustard]

I can quite easily use up download limit if I'm checking out new linux flavours (an ISO can easily be 600MB) and I'll often grab more than one at a time (especially with *buntu releases).

Browsing youtube can easily chew up limit and the wife likes to watch some tv shows direct from the tv channel's website if she misses the show on tv.

Download limit is like allocated time to a job, you'll fill it up rather than the opposite.

[Davros]

A classic example. I just watched the first episode of storm chasers season 3 and i will have the second episode by tonight. If your lucky Oz may see these in a year or so.

[kustard]

Yeah, we watched series one of the "Legend of The Seeker" adaption last year by grabbing them from the net. I have no idea when they'll get shown here. In fact the second series is about to be aired in the US, around the 7th of November.

[Ian Robinson]

Yep.... probably .... weather has been rotten for stargazing for ages, or too dusty or too smokey (bushfires or hazard reduction burns somewhere nearby) and it's pointless going fishing September to end of November, and I don't go square dancing as much as I used to (something I plan on rectifying next year .... it's great exercise and I miss it and the people) and I'm retired.

I've become a real Norm lately :sadeyes: and need to do something about it.

[astronut]

Yes OZ is behind the rest of the world.
I use TPG and for $49.99 per month, I receive 40GB Peak and 40GB Offpeak.
If I use more, they slow me down to dial up for the rest of the month.:thumbsup:

[toryglen-boy]

TBH, this was on of the first things i noticed when i came down under, the internet service.

i was used to a 50mb connection in the UK (yeah, thats 50mbs) with unlimited download or shaping, all for a reasonable price. Coming here it seems that your price is on the high side compared to the rest of the world, and some cheeky ISP's (Telstra) even count your upstream traffic as data usage!) But thats only because of the geographical location of Oz ... its so far away from anywhere !!



Paul, i have 2 internet accounts, and i do about 350Gb a month. What do people download? well, i download alot of my old British TV in HD, mainly stuff like the Premiership, and Top Gear etc.

it does get used ....

;)

ADDENDUM :

Something that you do seem to have here, is awful upload speeds, i have an 8mb cable line, its not bad, i can hit about 6.5Mbs on it, and thats pretty good, but what annoys me, is the upload speed, its 8000/480 which quite frankly is awful, it should be closer to 8000/2000, i quizzed my ISP about it, and they said "why would you need more than 48K upload speed?" and it annoyed me that they shouldnt be telling me what i do and dont need, i told them there are 4 people in my house, using it at the same time, moving files around, and 48K just doesnt cut it. After much debating, they informed me that it was cut right back to throttle on torrent speeds.

[kustard]

Yeah. Upload speeds are annoyingly slow here. What most people may not realise is that for every bit of data you download there is some form of data upload, most often ACK/NAK transactions for file transfers. Having a fast upload actually helps with download speed.

We host our own servers here at work and have to pat extra to get a fast upload speed which really sucks.

[Ian Robinson]

Wouldn't do for BigPond customers to be able torrent / upload in an unthrottled manner when they want you to take up IPTV and IPMovies (at an extra cost).

I noticed woeful speeds when I was downloading course notes via Blackboard last year too, at the tme I put it down to the university servors being congested or just plain slow.... not so sure now.

I suspect the same applies for other ADSL and ADSL2 IPs as well.

I will definitely be giving BigPond the flick when my broadband contract is done. I'm not a satisfied customer. I wanted a standalone ADSL / ADSL2 plan when I took it up but there were none on my area then.
That's what I'll be looking for next time, along with a more generous download limit.

[mithrandir]

TCP doesn't do NAKs, only ACKs.

The upload speed doesn't matter much if you are only downloading.

Read Stevens "TCP Illustrated: Volume 1". Run wireshark for a while and see what traffic a single download generates. There is an exponential backoff in ACK packets until it can reach one ACK per window (probably 64K bytes). That's one 40 byte packet up for multiple 1492 byte packets (assuming LLC/SNAP encapsulation) down. Selective ACK can reduce that even further.

Unless of course you get lost packets when duplicate ACKs trigger retransmissions. The protocol aims to minimise the number of retransmissions and stop the pipe from draining.

Now that does require upload bandwidth, and you will pay a lot more for SDSL. At least it's a deductable business expense.

[dpastern]

Andrew - a better modem like a Cisco will handle things better I believe.

If people aren't happy with upload speeds, then go get a synchronous connection (SHDSL). Ain't cheap ;-) Normal ADSL is not synchronous, hence the meaning of the acronym (asynchronous digital subscriber line). Some ISPs can turn a normal ADSL connection into a pseudo symmetrical line for you (we do it, an extra $50/month on top of a normal connection).

Dave