Need some help!!

[jmb]

Since my last thread, i have done a fair bit of research and drawn on the experience of some of the members here, mainly Alex, who has been extremely patient with me.
I very much like the idea of portability and good optics. I know most would probably recommend a DOB, but i have just sold my 6”DOB due to my lack of physical space. I need something compact, and light, that is easy to set up...and that i actually use. So I am wanting a nice ‘grab and go’ telescope.
I have checked out refractors recommended here, and like the SkyWatcher 102mm Refractor. The reviews for this model seem very good. I was also leaning towards the SkyWatcher 120mm Refractor but felt it did not get as good reviews as the 102mm. (both of these would be purchased locally New = this option would allow me to purchase some accessories NOW)
I thought I would check out that perception here with people who are familiar with both.
Another possibility, is the Celestron C5 or G5, while these are more expensive I realise these are probably big improvements over the refractors. (Both of these would be second-hand – would not purchase any accessories at this stage)
Also looking at the Skywatcher black diamond 127MAK (local purchase new – would not purchase any accessories at this stage)
I guess at this point i am somewhat confused and thought it best to share some of my thoughts here before going ahead with any purchases.
Thanks for your time
Regards
Janine

[jmb]

any help at all would be great!!!!1

[erick]

Love to help, but I know nothing about refractors, except for a little 2" Galileoscope and finderscopes :shrug:

But you want to step up from your 6" dob in terms of performance, surely. Not sure what refractor aperture will give you a better light gathering performance - but it is an apples and oranges comparison, I think.

[jmb]

not sure that i am actually stepping up, so to speak.
the problem with the DOB for me was that i have limited physical space, and the result was that i didnt use the DOB as much as i would have liked. it was just a nuisance to get out quickly and set up. so i acknowledge that ideally the DOB would be the way to go. But for me, it just did not work.
that is why i am leaning towards the C5/G5, or maybe the Skywatcher BD 127mak.
they seem to be compact, easy to set up, and the reviews of each of these in particular seem to be very good. to be honest, i have not come across as many reviews for the Skywatcher.
the refractors seems to be highly recommended here, that is why i have listed the 102mm and 120mm which i can buy at York here in Brisbane.
just looking for advise from users of these telescopes.
am grateful for the help i have received to date. it is a big learning curve. IIS has been a big help to me.
thanks
janine

[Benno85]

Hi Janine,

Just had a quick look at the models you've mentioned, and between the 102mm and 120mm Skywatcher refractors and the 127mm Mak, both would have their strongpoints.

The refractors both have focal ratios of f/5, which would give a nice wide field of view great for open clusters and browsing the starfields around the Milky Way, whereas the Mak has a focal ratio of f/11, which will reduce the field of view but offer a better view of the planets. Think of it as looking through the centre of a toilet roll and a drinking straw.....the toilet roll is shorter and wider, whilst the drinking straw is longer and narrower. Bit of a rough analogy, I'm still an L-Plater in this game as well!!

If it was me, I'd go the 120mm refractor - easy maintenance (no collimation required), it's lighter and would therefore get more use.

Best of luck, and keep the questions coming :)

Ben.

[jmb]

i would appreciate more info re the differences between the 120mm refractor and 127MAK or C5/G5
i would have thought the mak or C5/G5 was more portable?
i havent found any comparisons when i google, so am looking forward to hearing from the experts here...
thanks

[bmitchell82]

I am unsure about what you mean by setting up and that the dob was hard to setup "it was just a nuisance to get out quickly and set up." I will assure you that every setup that you have mentioned will take longer to set up and are more complex as you have to start dealing with things like rough polar alignment level and what not. plus all of the scopes your looking at will take up the same if not more physical space than the dob.

I think you have to look at what you really want as what your asking contradicts every point of why you wanted to downgrade.

as for the scopes you have mentioned i belive the best for you would be the celestron style of scope with goto and all things like that as you will then get the best use of the scope because it can take you and show you things if your not really good with finding objects then anything else will frustrate you.

when looking at reviews do remember that it is totally the feel of who is reviewing it unless there is scientific method behind it or somebody who is extremely experienced in telescope optics and manufacture. Do look more at what the telescope will offer and what you like to look at as this will be the biggest determination to what scope you get. so ask more things like this is what i like to do whats the best telescope for me based on what i want to do.

[jmb]

hi brendan
thanks for the reply.
i live in a flat and have limited physical space. i want a telescope that i can put in a cupboard pretty much set up and bring out when i want....i want something portable and easy...the DOB was a great telescope, just didnt suit me and as a result got used less and less.
something that is a grab and go would suit me better, and hopefully result in being used more often, resulting in being a good telescope for me.
i want to view details on the moon, explore the planets, constellations and develop the interest i have had for a long time.
for me, the money i am thinking of spending is a lot of money and i want to know i am getting the best possible scope for me, something that will be fun to use on what i do know, and will help me discover more sights and develop my interest in this hobby. i want to cruise the skies with my trusty sky maps and put names to things i have just read about...'
i want to primarily have fun....
hope that clarifies things a bit more for you
thanks
janine

[GTB_an_Owl]

Hi Janine

when you say you live in a flat - do you have any backyard at all ?

buy one of those "box seats" and store your dob in that in the backyard
for the base - do what i do - a compost bin from bunnings over the top of it

geoff

[jmb]

shared backyard, otherwise it would work.
too late, i have sold the DOB though

[Blue Skies]

I have to back up what Brendan said above. All three models you mentioned at the top of this thread will be worse to handle than the dob. First you have to take the tripod and mount out, then take out the counterweights, then take out the optical tube (scope), then line it up south...that is not 'grab and go"! I think you need to come to grips with a choice - either you're going to get a really small 'grab and go' that you can tuck under your arm but wont show you much detail in the sky (because you've taken a massive step down in aperture from the 6"), or you're going to have to accept that the good views of the sky involve a little more set up time than you would like. Telescopes are a bit like that, there is always a downside and you need to choose the downside you can live with. For you it's ease of use versus lack of detail. Probably not what you want to hear but that's how it goes.

This thread reminds of the time I ran into a family that had inherited an Astroscan and wanted a 'simpler to use' telescope. I told them you can't get much simpler than that! They weren't impressed. Put the extra effort in, it will be worth it.

[jmb]

thanks for that, but i think the G5 or Mak 127 will in fact be more suitable for me as a grab and go scope.
i have read reviews, seen them at the shop, and am leaning in that direction as oppossed to the refractors.
i have sold the DOB, dont really feel i keep needing to explain that decision....what i want is something that is easy to set up and will in fact give me good optics...i was seeking help to do that...telling me i am stepping backwards really is not helpful to me....
brendan was helpful in suggesting that for me the way to go is probably the celestron C5/G5 route, which i tend to agree with....from what i have heard these are able to use a camera tripod which would allow me to set it up quickly for quick looks...and the proper mount can be set up for more organised, longer nights...
any suggestions are very welcome

[jmb]

gee you are very funny!!!
i thought this forum was supposed to be helpful....

[hilb]

I've read where C5s used to come with a camera mount, i.e. something to mount a camera onto the scope, but I've not heard of using a camera tripod with an SC. Really? Would you do that? Why would you do that? Could you actually use the scope if you did? :confused2:

[jmb]

one of the members of this forum does just that, on a solid camera tripod....

[jmb]

The C5 spotting scope will attach to any photographic tripod with a 1/4x20 ..... attach your 35mm SLR camera to the rear cell of your Celestron C5. ...
www.celestron.com/c3/images/.../1192143824_52291c5spotterx.pdf -

[dpastern]

jmb - please ignore fibob1977.

Dave

[jmb]

thank you, i dont know what is going on, i just want to get some advise from the experts here
maybe tomorrow'
thanks anyway

[dpastern]

OK Janine,

If you don't mind, a few questions?

1) What did you find hard about the dob? Was it purely the size?

2) what do you really want to view? moon? planets? nebulae? galaxies?

3) will you occasionally take the scope/mount out in a car to a darker night sky, away from the city lights, etc?

4) how much are you prepared to spend?

You have a few options, but none of them will be as good as your dob imho. Dobs are quite easy to use - no fancy mount to worry about, no alignment procedures to worry about, just point and go and have some fun viewing objects. 6" will show a reasonable amount of objects.

I'll be honest - the Skywatcher refractors are smaller, but you'll see less with them (smaller aperture). They are also a fair bit more pricier than your 6" dob, so inch for inch aperture wise, not as good value. They'll perform best on a proper German equatorial mount, but these aren't always that easy for someone to set up and use, especially if you want to keep it simple.

What I'd recommend is something like a Williams optics Zenithstar 80 II f6.8 ED doublet - small, compact, reasonably good optics. Not cheap @ $799 (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-content-section-10-williamoptics.htm) - scroll down till you find the Zenithstar. You could put this on a cheap alta-azimuth mount - it'll be smaller and lightweight than a German equatorial mount, and also cheaper. Downside - nowhere near as stable. Something like this:

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=7343

That'd keep it under a grand. Optically it'll be quite good, it'll be portable, smallish, light and pretty easy to assemble and use at a whim.

I'd recommend a pair of binoculars too, as well as a basic book on stargazing. I'll have to dig around for what I think might be suitable to a newbie.

Hope this helps.

Dave

edit: added some more comments/thoughts to my post

[adman]

Hi Janine,

there are a lot of different ways to get into this hobby, and none of them are the right way or the only way. What you have to find is your way.

When I started out I had a tiny 40mm Tasco refractor mounted on a tripod with a ball mount. I looked up, found something interesting and pointed the telescope in that direction. This kept me occupied for years - mostly because I didn't know any different.:P

From what I read above, you mostly look at whatever takes your interest - just point and go - is that right? There are other people who like to have an equatorial mount and spend time getting it polar aligned etc, and that is fine for them. But if you don't want that - that's OK too.

Davids advice above is good. That scope will show you plenty - not everything - but it doesn't sound like you want or need an all-singing, all-dancing setup at the moment. The tripod will keep it stable enough and allow you to follow what you are looking at with the hand controls. IF you grow out of that setup in the future - great - sell it and get something else. You could do a lot worse that the C5 on that tripod. So, run with it for a while and see where it takes you.

One thing though - get a red-dot finder for the C5 and spend some time getting it setup right. It will save you lots of time trying to get what you are after into the view of the C5 eyepiece.

Good Luck :)

Adam

[jmb]

thanks David and Adam, appreciate your help
1) What did you find hard about the dob? Was it purely the size?
it was a great telescope, the size was the problem for me. i realise the advantages of a DOB,
something on a mount folds up...i realise there is time involved in setting it up and my idea of a grab and go, is something light, compact, and can be put in a cupboard. i dont want a telescope to be the main feature of my small unit.

2) what do you really want to view? moon? planets? nebulae? galaxies?
moon, planets, orion, pleides, and explore the constellations.
3) will you occasionally take the scope/mount out in a car to a darker night sky, away from the city lights, etc?
i hope so.

4) how much are you prepared to spend?
my budget has increased since researching this on the internet
$500

hope that helps
thanks

[dpastern]

OK, you're going to limit yourself, and what you can see with both a small budget, and also your personal requirements on a small/portable scope etc. You still should be able to view all of the objects that you've mentioned - fainter stuff will be either very difficult or impossible though. Some suggestions:

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=7046

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6327

These are both on German equatorial mounts, which aren't quite as easy to use as an alta azimuth mount, but are easier to track objects in (along the RA, or right ascension path).

A similar scope, but with an alta azimuth mount might be this one:

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=8351

The last one will be the easiest to set up and dismantle, with the least parts. I think it would probably best suit your needs, at least given what you've told us in your posts so far. It won't see as much as your 6" dob, let's make that clear.

BTW, I'm not affiliated with Bintel - I simply used links to items that they sell as it was easiest for me. I would however suggest calling Bintel and speaking to Mike or Don and having a good chat with them. Both are extremely knowledgeable and helpful, and they give good ole fashioned honest advice imho.

Dave

PS If you can stretch the budget, I'd recommend this item:

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=8338

[dpastern]

Oh, and I see you already have a pair of binoculars. Those, with your eyes are 2 of the best things to observe the heavens with. Use them!

For books, I'd recommend:

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6018

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6826

Possibly this one as well:

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6066

That should do for starters. If you don't want to buy some star chart books like above, I can give you links to free PDF charts that you can download and print out yourself.

Dave

[jmb]

thanks for that info Dave, i have sent you a pm

[jmb]

Southern Sky Guide , Heaven's Above, exploring the moon, 2009 australian sky guide, and few others.
the Bright Star Atlas 2000.0 you suggested looks good, i will check it out at the library.
i also have stellarus software
i visit skymaps.com fairly regularly

[dpastern]

What you've got sounds good, should hold you in good stead. I have replied to your PMs. :-)

Dave

[dannat]

i had a mak - albeit an intes which is more expensive but it performed very well..the celestron is not as good..it will not show colour compared to the refractor - is more portbale & packs away in a smaller space.
the refractor is supposed to have better contrast, will have less cool down.
In your case i would probably choose the mak..however if you want to use it to look at ground targets, you may consider a spotting scope..but at 80mm you will have to give up light gathering power

[bmitchell82]

i was thinking about what you have and what you want to do, this is my idea if space is your problem. get a binocular mount for a few hundred and slap your binos onto them they will beat pretty much anything that you can afford for what you want.

Don't think that we are trying to tell you that your making a mistake by not using the dob, its just a little hard to comprehend sometimes taking such a big step back, but you have to do what you have to do!

A bino mount will allow you to keep them steady and still while you look at your stars, and large open clusters, being zoomed out this will be the best thing. If after a while you want more aperature or better quality you can always get a bigger/better pair of binos untill you are ready to move up to a proper telescope.

The reason why i say this is that at the zoom size binos you have 2 eyes will always work better than one at such a small aperature and there will be nothing that you can get for that kind of price range in my opinion that will be "pleasing" and make you go wow. after all whats the fun in going oh yeah there it is. to foster your love for the hobby you want to have the oh wow thats amazing!

The best thing with a setup like this is you can whip it into the car and drive out to where ever drop it down and start looking with the same kind of controls as you would a dobsonian.
The other thing you could do if your handy witha few tools, or know somebody who is is get them to make you a "hot shoe" with a bracket to hold your binos (virtually making it a bino mount but you can swap it in and out with a normal cam) my friend made one for a grand total of a few dollars. sure its crude and not really nice but it works.!

Hope this helps you save your money and get the best bang for the situation you are in!

[jmb]

thanks Brendan for your help.
i have actually been thinking that might be a good route, thanks for the nudge. what you said makes perfect sense.
thanks again
janine

[jmb]

well i am a bit scared to come back to the forum for help...
well i chickened out of the ebay scope, got cold feet about spending the money on something i cant see physically, it being 8 years old, and then of course the postage was a bit of a killer....really think if i was going to spend around $600+ then it would be more sensible to buy the bd 127mak from York ($650 and a few decent eps, 6 yr warranty and after sales service)
i found this locally, at least not too far.
http://www.myastroshop.com.au/produc...sp?id=MAS-066A (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-066A)

York also have a 90Mak for $339 which sounds good
Saxon M10014EQ3 Maksutov Cassegrain
http://www.ozscopes.com.au/cassegrain-telescope-saxon-m10014eq3.html (http://www.ozscopes.com.au/cassegrain-telescope-saxon-m10014eq3.html) $395 + free colour filter set
this one seems good to me, a bit bigger than the 90mm, not sure how significant that is? Plus the free filter set.

AOE100M 100mm x 1400mm Maksutov Cassegrain telescope. Comes complete with EQ7 German equatorial mount mount and aluminium field tripod, 8 x 21 finderscope, two good quality 1.25" plossl eyepieces and 90degree diagonal mirror. ALSO $399 seems to be a good setup

is the vixen the best option/good value? anyone have experience with any of these?

cheers
janine

[dpastern]

I would say the Vixen is probably the best optically, but it's hard to be sure. Remember though, it's OTA only. You'll need a mount for this.

Dave

[jmb]

thanks Dave, i was thinking probably the Vixen as well. i know it is OTA only. i am wondering how it would compare with the SAxon.
then have to decide if i should make the leap to the 127
cheers
janine

[dpastern]

I'd say the Vixen would be noticeably better. No way of telling though without real star testing.

Dave

[casstony]

Another option from Andrews Communications is the new Bosma 80mm f/6 achromatic refractor - gets good reviews overseas:

Beta RE 80mm x 500mm refractor includes tube rings, strong camera tripod, 10mm and 25mm Plossl eyepieces, 5x24 erecting finderscope, 45° prism, Moon filter, objective lens solar filter and carry case.
$349.00

Xmas season pricing appears to be in effect though, since this set-up cost $US198.

[bmitchell82]

im going to bow out of this one now as you still are contradicting yourself, your whole point of selling your dob was the physical size of it, do you realize the physical size of a 100mm/127mm refractor would almost be as big as the 6" dob... actually it will be bigger because you need a mount, and unless your going to spend 3-400 on the tripod alone + the cost of the refractor the thing will be nigh on useless as it will wobble around like you wouldn't belive, and getting aim with it will be a laborious mission!

So unless your prepared to have the unit in your flat standing loud and proud ide suggest you sticking with a bino mount...

Good luck with your decision.

[jmb]

Just to put your mind at rest brendan, it is my understanding that a mount, although not as compact as i would prefer, will fold up and can at least be put in a cupboard. The dob base was not able to be folded up/dismounted and therefore, for me at least, harder to store away.
I will actually bow out now, thanks to those who offered constructive assistance to me, and to the others who have basically ridiculed my decision to sell the dob, well not all decisions need to be explained in lengthy details, and even you were a beginner at some time...
I appreciate the help from most on this forum,