My first Helix - Widefield in Ha

[multiweb]

After my last night runaway mount experience, I changed both RA & DEC cables and did 10x10min in Ha on the Helix. Pretty faint, so I couldn't see it and point to it in the finder, and with my legendary polar alignment and goto accuracy it only took me about 1h to find it :P . Tracking was good so tomorrow night I'm going to load the hyperstar with the C11 and shoot the same thing. Now I'm confident I'm not going to break anything. FOV should be similar, maybe a bit bigger but I suspect I'm going to be doing 30s to 1min subs and go to bed waaay earlier than tonight. Will be a good comparison test.

There's a full field here if anyone's interested: http://www.multiweb.com.au/astro/NGC7293_ha_f.jpg
Pretty boring grey donut without colors :)

[dpastern]

Stars look good Marc, and you've captured part of the outer viel of the nebulae. More data will help as usual, but you know that. I'd be pretty proud of that effort personally, but I'm easy to please I guess.

Dave

[CoolhandJo]

Good work. This is faint (as you know) but I think the Ha you have is really good going. Will you be adding some RGB?

[multiweb]

Thanks David. I think this object looks way better at higher FL like what Mike Sidonio did, but I had enough hard time to find where it was. :whistle:


Thanks Paul. Unlikely . Just getting the Ha was hard Yakka from where I am. Not very rewarding. I'm going to shoot the same field tonight with the C11/Hyperstar combo and compare. Unguided though as I haven't figured out how to guide the C11 with HS. Normally I use an OAG. Tonight was a test run to make sure the mount was ok with the new cables. You can see the pic is still very noisy for an hour and a half. The forecast in Sydney was clear with good seeing but I kept getting those pesky clouds coming through from the NE until I gave up around 1:00pm :shrug:

[renormalised]

Nice shot, Marc. The Hyperstar will certainly get that and probably more in a much shorter exposure than what you did last night. Seems the best cameras for them are OSC's, since you don't really want to start adding filter selectors and such to the weight on the front of the scope.

[dpastern]

I wonder if I can see this with my 4" refractor from LP city skies (with a UHC filter)?

Dave

[tornado33]

Nice sharp image there.
Scott

[TrevorW]

Good One Marc

nice tracking

[multiweb]

Apparently the light cone is so steep there are issues with monochrome cameras and narrowband with ghost reflections because of different focus plane per light wavelength. I read that using an OSC with microlensing acts as a secondary filter after the main filter (i.e you keep only red when doing Ha/Sii and the reflections end up in the green and blue that you discard anyway). But on a monochrome it all ends up in the same well. I'll be able to confirm this tonight as I'm shooting the Helix in Ha, if everything works that is. :P

Can't see why not but it's bloody faint.




Thanks guys. :thumbsup: Sharp alright but still lacks details. I don't know if it's shortage of data or aperture. We'll see what the C11 at F/2 does tonight. I'm excited. :)

[dpastern]

Well, the powerpoint presentation that Mike put up on targets for small scopes seems to imply that it should be. Might just have to go looking for it.

I strongly resisted the urge today to get the scope out (I stayed home ill from work) and test my solar setup.

Dave

[AlexN]

Marc, Looks good mate...

I got $10 says that the C11 + HS pulls out more nebulosity in 10x1min subs than this image got in 10x10min... Once and for all throwing the idea that F ratio and aperture do not make much difference for imaging...

This however, is very nice, Much nicer in fact than any helix shot I've done to date.. I find the helix a real pain in the bum to image.. I've attempted it 3 times now, each time I've failed miserably.. Good luck to you mate!

[multiweb]

Thanks Alex. All set up now. No turning back now. Fans are on, mirror cooling. :D The only thing I'm worried about a bit is fogging up the QHY8 as it's pointing down. :shrug: I have put a null adapter (empty nosepiece) and screwed it directly into the hyperstar adapter. It's sealed by the Baader Ha filter on the other side. So the distance between the Ha filter glass and the CCD is actually less than the standard nosepiece length, so there's less air trapped into it too.... we'll see.... oh, and I blew dry the hell out of it too in the bathroom prior. :thumbsup: At this stage I'm not even worried about collimation. I wanna shoot "something", anything will do. :lol: If I can focus, close enough - all good :)

[AlexN]

Thats the way mate! Image or Bust! :) haha

I think you'll find it will be OK with the QHY8 pointed down... worst comes to worst, a small dew heater band wrapped around the the null adapter will stop any dewing issues... although thats just one more cable hanging through the light path... You could also get very small sillica gel pouch from jaycar or somewhere similar and fit that somewhere inside the QHY8 to suck up moisture... I've seen that done before... worked well...

I agree, tonight, worry less about collimation, worry more about getting some data, even if the stars are a little out of shape, it will still be interesting to see how much light it sucks in... Tackle collimation and other required adjustments next time!

Have fun mate.. Have fun!!

[Bolts_Tweed]

Dave you should get it from home with a UHC. I have got it from the Gold Coast with a 4 inch refractor and DSLR (350D).

Dont know about the outlying second ring but. That is the big difference with Marcs image (what i think makes it so good) compared to the usual rubbish helix I take. You might get it but you'll have to push it.

For inspiration - Eddie Trimachis site show what can be done suburbia and he is just north of Surfers Paradise.

Well worth trying mate

Mark

[Hagar]

Nice image Marc, looking forward to seeing the hyper image.

[dpastern]

All things going well, this weekend then.

Dave

[multiweb]

Mate, I'm shooting 30s subs unguided everywhere coz I was too lazy polar aligning and setting up the guider. I just grab the C11 by the handle, point with the finder and crank 20 subs in Neb2. I did 20x30s on M8 and I have more data in Ha than the 3h I did with my 5" newt. And I'm not even trying :eyepop:. I'm running quickly out of Hard drive space as the subs pour in. This is madness :rofl:. I'm going to have stuff to process for the next two weeks at least :lol: Feels like cheating, big time... nah ... almost :) I'm goona wait for the HH to popup over the roof and try there. Man, you guys gotta get yourself one of those HS. :thumbsup:

[DavidU]

Thats awesome Marc !!!! The way your going we will have to throw a bucket of cold water over you:lol:

[AlexN]

If that doesn't sound like a glowing review I dont know what does..

"This is madness" being my favourite bit... Thats exactly what I wanted to hear...

From what I'd heard from people in the states, you can do a months worth of targets in one night with the right camera and the hyperstar...

Looks like im going to be looking for an 8" SCT and an small, sensitive camera in the not too distant future! :)

Great to hear its going nuts.. and I eagerly await the images...

Next time, dont be so lazy, align it, guide it, 20 minute subs on a nice dim target.. :D.. Im pretty sure Cent A rises in the next few months... Time to challenge Mr Sidonio to an Cent A - Off.. :D Go deep son!! Go DEEEEEEEPP!!!!

[multiweb]

I won't be guiding tonight. I'd have to sticky tape my QHY5 to the finder. :lol: But I'll post some pics soon. I just finished processing quickly the M8 widefield. 20x30s so 10min all up. You're not gonna believe it when you see it. Problem now for me is going to be that the data is coming in faster than I can process it.

Here it is: 20x30s unguided. The HS is not collimated and focus is eyeballed. So you can see the potential :)

[DavidU]

He's all over it like a fat kid on a cup cake !

Waiting for an image ! I getting excited........

[dpastern]

Holy crap Batman! Dang that is good. Someones doing a happy dance I suspect (until they see all the data they have to process :P)

Dave

[multiweb]

:lol: While processing that I did 50 subs on M16. It looks sick. This is commando imaging. In and out. Clouds don't even get a chance to creep in.

[AlexN]

Sometimes you just wish you could swear on these forums..... :)

FFFFAAAARRRR OUUUT!!

man, 50x20sec on M16 is going to be insane!!

Judging by that M8 I guess that the guy in USA was right when he said you could get more images in one night than you would normally get in a month....

To be very honest with you... Right now, I am the Ha in a hubble pallet image.. Yep... GREEEEENNNNN!!!

[multiweb]

Well I believe it now. The mount is stuck in sidereal rate and I move the C11 manually by hand, then set neb to do 40 subs of 30s, come back move it somewhere else and do it again. You could very easily do tricolor NB in one night. Focusing is also no as hard as I feared and the camera hasn't fogged up yet. Touch wood. Maybe beginners luck?

Another thing is that losing subs doesn't matter anymore. I bumped the mount and had 2 subs jagged on M16. I shot another 5 :P

[AlexN]

Have you hit the helix yet just for comparison purposes?

Just for an update, how many targets have you hit, and how long have you been imaging for? These are going to be the questions that make 90% of people wanting a hyperstar converted SCT once answered I think..

[DavidU]

What would happen if a Melincam was put on a Hyperstar?The mind boggles.

[multiweb]

No I haven't. I can't see it ;) . I'll try if I can point to it. I'm definitely waiting for the HH and orion. I might chuck a quick mosaic of the whole area in Ha? :lol:

I have 30 subs on M8 and 40 subs on M16. But I have left the scope not imaging at all as well because I have spent all my evening at the PC processing. I'm not even outside. But I reckon if you spend one night at the scope imaging the amount of data you would get could be quite overwhelming. It's information overload. It's only 10:00pm now and I feel like I have been imaging for one whole week-end when I look at what I've captured so far. I think this system is ideal out in the field. You can setup quickly and shoot a lot of subs then sort them later. Ideal to do mosaic I'd say. Even in narrowband. Because the acquisition time is so fast. It's reversed. You don't wait for your subs anymore . They keep coming in.

[AlexN]

imagine if you had a 1tb hard drive, running 1min subs all night on a target.. This would be exceptionally adventagous with an equatorial fork mounted scope that could track straight through the meridian.. You could easily get 5~6 hrs of 1min subs... It would take a day for DSS to stack it all up, but the resulting image would be extreme... Megadata to the max!! :D

I think the big test will be 30~40sec subs of the horse head area... do as many as you can stay awake to do mate.... I really want to see what you can do with this on night one... from the M8 image and what you've said about the M16 shot, I can see this will turn you into one of the most productive imagers around.. a 2 night star party will result in 2 months worth of processing work!! :D hahaha

Time to buy a few big arse external hard drives! :)

[multiweb]

I don't know. I pulled an all nighter last night but I wanna wait for Orion. Problem is that it clears my roof line quite late in the morning but I might get some subs in (60 or something like that :lol:) . Mate, I'm telling you, you HAVE TO get one of those. They're wicked. Looking at the data in the 30s subs it looks like 10min subs from my 5" newt. And the resolution is better because of the massive aperture.

When I'll guide I'll try one deep 20min Ha Sub somewhere see what comes up. That should be interesting.

[AlexN]

You're a Baaaaad man Marc... Im going to be broke as hell, and its going to be your fault....

Wanted : C8 or C9.25...

Drool...

On a scale of 1 to 10, rate the value of your new investment... :P

[multiweb]

11 :D - Just checked the Helix. Found it. Did 40 subs on it. I can see the outer arch nebulosity in a single 30s shot. ;)

[AlexN]

Oh I'd say 12.5.... outer arch in 30s = 12.5 on the 1 to 10 awesometer..

[multiweb]

When I received the Hyperstar box there was a note in it hand written from Dean at Starizona "Thanks - enjoy! ... sleep while you can..." :)
So you're sold yet? Will post M16 shortly.

[AlexN]

Dude, I was sold half an hour ago when you posted that 10min shot of M8...

I've since been scouring the forums and other online sources for a used SCT... I'd even consider buying a full setup on forks with a wedge, have hyperstar running Ha lum images while the TMB pulls down colour data.. the focal length of the two setups would be similar, and the results could be outstanding.. Although I'd need to ditch this Orion SS Pro.. Its 5 or 6 inches in diameter.. That would effectively kill the idea... Although a nice little SX H9C or even better, the M25C could be the go... But yes... Im running numbers and sourcing what I'd need as I type this... Like I said.. You are a baaaaad man Marc...

I love it.

[dpastern]

Marc, you're a bad bad man. Really. Bad. You've corruped Alex and he's turning to the dark side of the image. and you're trying to corrupt me as well it seems. I will resist, I will be strong (prolly until I see the images, and then I'll break down and weep). waaa!

Dave

[multiweb]

Here's M16 40x30s. Was a bit low on the horizon across the M7. All those shots are uncalibrated and unguided so it's just quick and dirty. Just want to show the photon gathering capability of the hyperstar system. Even through a dense filter such as Ha. 30s subs? C'mon! :lol:

[AlexN]

I'll say this Marc...

I use 30sec subs through a 7nm Ha filter to frame the image... I dont see nebulosity, but I can just make out the star cluster to the top left of the pillars... I run 20min subs to get nebula extension that you've captured there.. my scope is 80mm F/6... So clearly, 80mm F/6 gathers less light than 280mm F/2 :D hahah!

Ps - M16 looks Sahweeeettt!! :D

Stomach.... Turning.... Soooooooo..... Jealous.... :P

[multiweb]

I shouldn't say that but to frame the Helix I was in frame focus mode on 5s exp in Neb2 and I could make up the full ring.

You know what. I think I'll call it a night. Too any subs now. I have 80subs on the helix coz I kept shooting while processing M16. That was a good test though. Really happy with it. Another thing is the fan of the QHY8 with the heat extractor kept the dew off the corrector plate. Dry as a whistle inside the dew shield.

[AlexN]

**Alex can not type right now... He's too busy sulking in the corner of a darkened room...

[multiweb]

C'mon, get an Hyperstar...it's calling you.

[AlexN]

need an SCT first! :) It will happen though...

As I mentioned earlier though, I think I'll look for a celestron or meade fork mounted scope, get a wedge and have a setup that can track through the meridian.. do all night images with the hyperstar rig and do my usual thing with the TMB.... You are right though... its calling me... Loud and clear...

[dpastern]

Marc is that M31 and M42 I hear calling?

Dave

[multiweb]

Remember what you said on the helix 10x1min? I get more date in 6x30s than 10x10min. I just stacked 6 frames to check. I have over 80 of them though so I'll process that tomorrow. I'm sick of stacking now. I never though I'd say that :lol: . Might go for a snooze and wait for M42 and the HH as David mentioned.

[coldspace]

David, I have seen C11 Hyperstar with Mallincam system and the images are just mindblowing, HH/flame in 7second intergration in full colour.
I would love a hyperstar but they don't attach to a Meade 12R. So Optec 3.3 will do for now its speed works really well for me ATM with the Mallincam. I can manually guide through the eagle,M42,Trifid in real time like looking through an eyepiece as the object moves around the screen in colour and clarity in 2 second mode.
These Hyperstar F2's work really well for large objects. Well worth it if you have a Celestron or one of the older Meades as they don't suit the ACF optics. If you have a small chip yo can also stack focal reducers to get to F2, like I know I a guy who uses an 6.3 reducer then a F4 reducer that Rock Mallin developed for the camera and this gets his F10 speed system done to about F2.5 which works well.

Matt.

[AlexN]

3 mins of data beats your previous 100 mins.. Sigh.. Its money spending time..

[multiweb]

Yeah, pretty much David :lol: Seriously it was a great first light. Lot of excitement. Now I have to do things "properly" In order collimate, guide then focus.

Initial first impressions:


Much easier to setup than I first thought. Weight is not an issue. You just have to be extremely careful with the system attached to the corrector and watch for those dangling cables.
Focus was also fairly easy to reach with the bathinov mask. Although I did experience a bit of mirror flop on M16 because it was low on the horizon. I suppose focus will not hold on low targets, but that's an SCT issue, not a HS issue. Best shoot right up. Because subs are so short you can shoot 100s at the meridian crossing. No need to chase a target for very long. I mean how many subs do you want to shoot? You have to process them all afterwards...:P
Light gathering capacity is mind blowing. Coming from a smallish 5" scope it makes a huge difference to me. 11" aperture at F/1.8 is a killer. Proof is in the pudding. The FOV is also much wider than what I though. I must have got my image scale calculations wrong.
I didn't dew up the corrector plate and had no heater going on at all last night. I'm not sure why but I think it might be because of the air circulation caused by the camera fan inside the dew shield. I also had the cooling fan running inside the scope while imaging and the focuser hole was unplugged. On another note why are insects always attracted to warm dark places. I had a moth making a trip through the fan last night. Bits and pieces through the corrector. So I had to make two set of flats. "pre moth" and "post moth". :whistle:
The really attractive part is the integration time of the subs. We're talking about imaging like shooting bias frames. You litterally have 100s of subs to pick from so a big HD is a must.
If you have a camera that requires dark frames to overcome readout noise, then taking darks is not an issue anymore, because you have such short subs to start with, so no big deal shooting 100 darks to match exposure times. :)
Cables and squareness of the QHY8 did not seem to create diffraction spikes or major problems with star shapes. Although as anticipated I did see the ghost images with the cables on the corrector in the green and blue channels of the bayer matrix. On the C11 the obstruction is minimal though. It might be more pronounced on smaller aperture scopes. Again this was Ha. RGB might prove to be more challenging with reflections and other things.
All in one it was a real buzz to use. Love it. I'd recommend anyone who's got an SCT to seriously think about it. It is so easy to use and collect data. :thumbsup:

[DavidU]

You should make a fan filter out of a 3M green dishwashing scrubber.They filter dust as well.

[multiweb]

That's a good idea... I was thinking about a porous foam but couldn't figure out what to use. You're talking about the green backing of standard sponges right?

[DavidU]

Yeh,just the green pot scrubber without the foam

[multiweb]

Excellent! Got you - thanks. :thumbsup: