Near Death Experience [Archive]

Baron von Richthofen

02-09-2009, 03:30 PM

About 15 years ago I had heart problem and ended up in CCU
about 1 week after I got back home it happened, I am a light sleeper,
I was a sleep when in middle of a dream I was back to reality and I knew something was wrong, all of a sudden every thing went black and the next instant I pushed my self up off the bed and I was looking down at myself and as I got up I was in another place lying on the ground with this big black dude in a white suite looking down at me with his out stretched hand to help me up saying are you all right, I think he was there to help me
The sky was blue and hills all around and the ground was a red clay and in the middle of this clearing was a round wooden polished building with lots of glass French doors with a wooden deck around it and a wooden roof, there were lots of people there all in white suits and all are smiling and waiting for some thing then a bell rang and all the people including me lined up around the building and all the people were exited, as the people went in side the building there a flash of light, when it was my turn to go it I saw two people sitting there waiting for me, as I got closer I realized they were sending people back to be reborn I then thought of my wife and did not want to go I told them I want to go back to my wife as I could not leave her, they said ok there was a flash of light and I was back in my body wide awake but there is more to this story, this happened at night and the room was lit up, as I got out of bed I realized it was me that was giving off the light it only lasted about five-minute before it faded out
There you have it believe it or not
but it happened to me:face:

FredSnerd

02-09-2009, 03:38 PM

Wow, great story

kinetic

02-09-2009, 05:11 PM

I once swore at my mother in law when I'd had a few...

Steve

Baron von Richthofen

02-09-2009, 05:17 PM

:cheers::bowdown::cheers:And you lived to tell about it
AMAZING

kinetic

02-09-2009, 06:06 PM

You obviously have seen what my mother in law looks like Vars....

Steve

Jen

02-09-2009, 06:21 PM

:lol::lol::lol:

dpastern

02-09-2009, 06:41 PM

I should ask my dad about this, since he actually died on the table when doing a endoscopy last December. Took the Doctors 3 or so minutes to revive him. His blood pressure dropped to zero, even now it's 60/40 when standing and 80/60 when resting.

Dave

FredSnerd

02-09-2009, 06:56 PM

Hey yeah Dave you should ask him. He sounds like a perfect candidate. Whats interesting is how similar the experince tends to be for people. Being drawn to a bright, peaceful light; a loved one that meets and comforts you and a general feeling of peace and oneness with the universe.

As I understand it there is a debate as to whether the experiance is

(i) induced by a chemical in the brain to ease the pain of death or

(ii) an indication of a seperate consciousness that exists seperate from the body (i'm in a hurry to add that its not necessarily a religious thing and people who think thats its (ii) are not necessarily religious (I personally am not religious).

I should also add that I am not advocating (i) or (ii). I just find it all interesting

koputai

02-09-2009, 07:10 PM

I had a big accident a few years ago, the write up is here:
http://www.deepdiving.net/incident.html

The treatment has been written up in medical journals, and is very famous in its field.

As far as near death experiences, no, there was no shining light, or deity appearance,
just lots of pain, fear, then resignation and peace. Then there was a chance, and that's
when the fighting started.

Cheers,
Jason.

kinetic

02-09-2009, 07:24 PM

Jason, what a sobering and amazing account.
Knowing nothing about diving, but is this an easy mistake to make
with that rubber valve/gasket you describe?

Is there a check before you dive that would show that malfunctioning?

Thanks for sharing!

Steve

FredSnerd

02-09-2009, 07:32 PM

Thats some experiance Jason. Well you've made one decision for me. I'm filling in the pool. Yeah, thanks for sharing

GeoffW1

02-09-2009, 08:00 PM

Hi Jason,

I had read this report (I follow the activities of your group), and had not realised that was you (should have though - Koputai. I know what that is). I am most impressed you are still diving. A friend of mine, a good careful diver too, got a spinal hit and never went in the water again. It was before dive computers became commonplace.

Now my experience, which is a sort of really light weight version of yours. I was a keen diver, and had started on wreck diving, but on this day in 1980 had only a single tank of air. Due to a combination of having to work down a very long anchor rope, nitrogen narcosis, and stupidity, I ran right out of air at 43 m, on the deck of a hulk off Collaroy called the Meggol (the former HMAS Doomba).

So I dropped the weight belt, and started the long trek up to the air. I'm told my appearance at the surface rather resembled a Poseidon missile. We call it a pop to the top, eh? Good training got me out of it really (thanks Marden) and there was an Oxy-Viva on the boat with a full bottle (thanks Sumner). I drained that of course.

I had inhaled sea water, and was not really with it until we got to the ramp at Rose Bay. The doctor observed me carefully, but I did not have to go in the decompression chamber!! Amazing. I had not been on the bottom long enough.

I immediately went back diving (very nervously) but never went deep again without twin tanks.

So for the rest of it I second Jason - no shining light, just fear and resignation, then a chance. We are still here!!

Cheers, and I really mean it :):):)

FredSnerd

02-09-2009, 08:36 PM

Jason, Geoff, you blokes make me feel really self concious. I'm 55 and the most dangerous thing I've ever done is talk back to the misses once when I had a few (But shes forgiven me now its ok).

GeoffW1

02-09-2009, 08:43 PM

Hi,

That is far more dangerous :P:lol:

Jason's diving is called technical diving, because of the hi-tech gear and advanced procedures, and I've never really tried it.

I once went looking for a wreck at Norah Head and when we arrived at the bottom we banged into it because it was so pitch black dark we could not even see each other. I remember thinking "What the **** am I doing here?"

Cheers

Jules76

02-09-2009, 08:53 PM

First I just want to say I'm not mocking anyone's experience, but I want to put my take on things. Personally I think it is a chemical thing, similar to dreaming if you like. It is interesting that people often have the same experience, but if you put it into context it's not really that suprising.

The whole "drawn to a bright light, seeing loved one's etc" is generally the experience we all come to expect. It's been shown on countless TV shows/movies or in books/literature and having people recount their experiences of the same thing simply reinforces this expectation. So when the time does come, it's not suprising in this "dream" state your mind grabs this "scenario" from your subconscious and plays it.

But anyway that's just my take. :)

garyp

02-09-2009, 08:55 PM

this is a very interesting topic. I have read a few accounts from other people but not had any personally. There must be a few more IISers who have had some near death experience. looking forward to more stories.

BTW does spending a night observing in South Island NZ mid winter count as a near death experience?

Cheers

Gary:)

jjjnettie

02-09-2009, 09:09 PM

What ever happens at the very end, I don't believe that it's anything to be afraid of. Does this "spark" that makes us self conscious, does it continue beyond death? Will we finally be free to explore the cosmos as intelligent energy. (have I read too many sci fi stories?) Are the Buddhist's on the right track? Do we return to do it all over again, until we reach a stage where we can move up the spiritual path? I can't believe that when you die, you're dead. There has to be more to it. One thing I know for sure, I'm looking forward to finding out the answers.

astroron

02-09-2009, 09:15 PM

"I'm looking forward to finding out the answers"
But not for a long time I hope JJJ;)

leon

02-09-2009, 09:20 PM

No I disagree, When your dead you are dead, unfortunately we don't spend much time on this Planet, maybe for some a 100 years if that, but unfortunately that is it.

I don't believe that we return as another being and the like, and I happen to be a Catholic.

Leon

jjjnettie

02-09-2009, 09:26 PM

It makes me happy to believe otherwise Leon. :)
Ron, I hope so too. I'm grateful for every day.

dpastern

02-09-2009, 09:37 PM

Well, I ain't a Catholic (baptised as one but I'm pagan now and have been for a good number of years I might add), but I do agree with you Leon - it's simply a chemical reaction and when you're dead, you're dead. But then again, I also believe love is but a chemical reaction too.

Dave

FredSnerd

02-09-2009, 09:41 PM

Hi Julian,

Yeah I'm not saying its one way or the other. It could be chemical as you say or it could be an indication of a seperate consciousness from the body (which if I understand you correctly you don't really think is on the cards). Now I'm not advocating one theory over the other at this stage. I just think the whole thing is interesting. But I do have a problem with your explanation.

I think they have records of people having these experiances well before people were "sharing" their stories and I dare say people are having these experiances now without ever having paid much attention to the stories, so the preprogramed senario you suggest is not really a convincing explanation for me for the similar stories. Of course there may be other explanations for the similar stories that have nothing to do with a seperation of body and "soul" (for want of a better expression). Eg something in the nature of the brain chemical might induce similar images. Like I say I dont advocate one way or another. Its just facinating to me.

jjjnettie

02-09-2009, 09:59 PM

Love is definitely a chemical reaction, with some other Darwinian bits thrown in. (Friendship is something completely different)
But LIFE is electric! You can turn LIFE off, but there's still that electrical impulse that has to go somewhere, but where?

astroron

02-09-2009, 10:08 PM

What about the other creatures out there, don't they get in on the act as well?:shrug:
We are quite happy to snuff out lives at the drop of a hat, arn't they also part of the work of the maker?

norm

02-09-2009, 10:32 PM

I've never had one, but I know of my dad having one and telling me the story.

He was a young bloke working as a stonemason and doing work at Inverell NSW in a new hostpital being built. He remembers touching something and next minute he is being electricuted. Next thing he sees a white tunnel seemingly drawing closer and closer to him. Just before he seems to go in, a voice tells him its not his time.....

Knowing my dad and who he is, growing up as an orphan and living a very humble life, this story always remains close to my heart. The way he told it was just so fair dinkum and so geniune, there is no way I would ever dismiss it. I certainly wouldn't be sceptical of other people's experience thats for sure.

Norm

DavidU

02-09-2009, 11:47 PM

Here am I thinking I had a near life experience LOL

Diving can be very dangerous as we have just read,but Fred you are just playing with fire there mate !

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 04:03 AM

Great story Norm. Yeah, I'm not skeptical of the stories. There are just too many incidences to just dismiss it. Interestingly many people who have had NDE report a tunnel of light and a voice that told them to go back because its was not their time.

As I understand it the number of reported incidences of Near Death Experiance (NDE) are much greater now because medical science is such that many more people on the brink of death or who have infact technically died are being brought back to life.

Thanks for sharing

lacad01

03-09-2009, 06:04 AM

Not exactly the traditional near death experience of dying and coming back but the closest thing I've had was when I was young and silly in my first car. It was a slightly souped up Datsun 1600, took it out on a back road in the Southern Highlands (NSW) and did the ton (that's 100MPH). Was rocking around a bit but handled it nicely.
Next day, I was going out on a short commute when I started to turn the steering wheel I heard a loud clunk and the steering wheel fealt a lot looser and turned round & round. Popped the bonnet, looked at the linkage, checked underneath and....:eyepop:
...one of the tie rods of the steering arm had snapped. Basically was held together by rust and finally gave way. If that had happened the previous day...sionara :(

dpastern

03-09-2009, 06:19 AM

I personally believe that voice is their own will saying "keep fighting to stay alive, you can do it!". Nothing more and nothing less.

As to electrical energy in the human body, it disappears once you die. Yes, you could argue that it goes somewhere else, but there's no proof whatsoever. I think you'll find that the electrical impulses are a matter of a byproduct of living cells.

Dave

toryglen-boy

03-09-2009, 10:45 AM

i had a heart attack last year, and was briefly in hospital.

During the worse of it, i remember lying there, and feeling very comfy, kinda cold, but not uncomfortable at the same time, i remember feeling kinda disconnected, like i was there, but not quite there, and then i heard a noise, like white noise, like the noise from an old TV with the aerial out, the noise that accompanies "snow" on the TV. It was very faint, but within seconds it got louder, and louder, and louder until it was all encompassing, and i was screaming inside my head, as it got louder and louder, all of a sudden, i remember the noise just stopped, and there was a wooshing, rushing sensation, but it felt different, it felt like i was travelling along but not moving, if you can imagine driving a car on a treadmill, as the scenery whizzes past you, then thats a very rough approximation, all of a sudden it stopped, although i kept moving, i felt like i had been pulled violently, and was being pulled up and back, and all of a sudden i felt like a child again, and there was someone holding my hand, firmly, but not overly so, i felt my fingers slipping through this imaginary hand, and at the same time, i felt so utterly scared of letting go, as i knew i couldnt come back, but at the same time, the blackness beyond in itself wasnt scary, it was warm, and comforting, and inviting, and while i remember lying there motionless, being terrified of the unknown, i knew at the same time, there would be nothing to fear. Then, just as i was about to let go, i remember thinking about my family etc, and i grabbed on to the hand, and pulled myself forward, i wanted to see them, it felt like i had broken the surface after swimming up from a great depth, and i had quite a start, like when you dream of falling, and you jump yourself awake before hitting the ground, only to see myself surrounded by medics and equipment etc.

This is quite cathartic, its the first time i have mentioned it, as i dont know what it was, and yet it felt incredibly personal to me, that said, this thread seems like completely the right place to mention it.

:screwy:

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 11:11 AM

Duncan, I'm affraid I got a bit emotional just reading this. Great story. I think it was the part about grabbing the hand after you remembered your family that did it. Makes me sad just writing about it. HowBoutThemNicks

regards

toryglen-boy

03-09-2009, 11:20 AM

Thanks for that :)

i guess if i ever hear that sound again, then i know whats coming.

Satchmo

03-09-2009, 11:24 AM

Duncan

Thanks for sharing your very personal experience.

" i remember feeling kinda disconnected, like i was there, but not quite there, and then i heard a noise, like white noise, like the noise from an old TV with the aerial out, the noise that accompanies "snow" on the TV."

What you describe is very much like the onset of the state of "lucid dreaming" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream). There are various ways you can go about practising to induce the state. I've achieved it half a dozen times in my life . Its usually been when I have been over- tired but not able to sleep. In full lucid dreaming state you are aware that you are dreaming and able to influence the dream if if it is your sub -concious doing the steering..you are essentially let loose in another world with some sort of personal control over the consequences.

Commonly you find yourself to have super human powers and the visual aspects is so real..the three dimensional reality is such that an encounter with something very frightening can effect you for days, much as a powerful dream can.

Many alien encounter stories ( involving interventions, probings etc), and `white tunnel' near death experiences are suspected by some psychologists to have been induced by rare stress induced release of Dymethyltryptamine which is a tryptamine neurotransmitter which occurs naturally in the brain, that can cause powerful hallucinations.

jjjnettie

03-09-2009, 11:35 AM

Thanks for sharing that Duncan.

renormalised

03-09-2009, 11:56 AM

I think what needs to be done here is not try to pigeon hole what these experiences are...whether they turn out to be some neurotransmitter induced "hallucination" or actual survival of an entity/consciousness. What needs to happen is a full on study of what is occurring. Even then we may not find out what's really going on because our technology, state of development etc etc, may not be up to finding the answers. But it shouldn't stop us from trying.

It's like this...psychologists might "suspect" it's this or that, but in truth, what do they really know about the brain, or anything else for that matter. They barely know anything about what they think they know in the first place. Who's to say that when these neurotransmitters flood the brain that what you're having is actually an "hallucination", powerful or otherwise. You could just as easily state that what we experience in our daily lives as being the "hallucination". It's all predicated on the chemistry of neurotransmitters and their effects on cellular function. It may be that in order to access these other levels of existence/reality, whatever you may want to perceive things, that these other neurotransmitters have to kick in...creating an altered state of consciousness that allows somoene to see into these other realms. Who's to say?!!!:)

dpastern

03-09-2009, 12:04 PM

Thanks for sharing your story Duncan.

Dave

renormalised

03-09-2009, 12:08 PM

Thank you to everyone who have shared their stories...it takes courage to open up like that

gts055

03-09-2009, 01:01 PM

Wonderful to read these accounts, and I believe them all to be as real as the person relating the event. Our minds are incredibly complex with much unknown. And that "spark" that makes living things "alive" sure does puzzle me. Everything we know is bound by electrical forces, from rocks to humankind, but living things have something extra. When that spark departs, decay begins be it an amoeba, a cabbage or us. I'm with u Jeanette = ^.^ =

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 01:29 PM

I was brought up in a religious family. In my early 20s I gave up religion (no regrets about that) and after that I became a very strong proponent of the view that when we die we turn to compost. I think now that that was a reaction to religion. That is, I think i felt that if I accepted some form of existence beyond death I had to believe in God and heaven and hell and all that baggage. In a way my religous background closed my mind to the other possibility of some form of existence after "death" that is not spiritual in a religious sense but physical in a purly naturalistic "scientific sense".

Having said all that I'm not saying that there is this other existence after death. I don't know. The chemical in the brain theory (to help us deal with death) is just as plausible to me and I'm just eager to find out which it is.

In addition to all the things that makes one sad about dying do you ever think how sad it is that after you die you wont be here to see how the rest of the human story unfolds. That makes me sad.

astroron

03-09-2009, 01:32 PM

Fred, Just one question?
Do you do any Astronomy?
I have been through all your posts and only a couple of them even Mention the word:shrug:

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 01:42 PM

Ron regretfully I only have a pair of binoculars at the moment and I go out every second night or so (lately to look at jupiter).

I retired 9 months ago and am pursuing my life long dream of writing a screenplay for a film. I have been writing a min of 4 hours a day (often 9 - 12 hrs) and hope by christmas to have the first draft done (i'll be pushing but).

Earlier in the year I thought i could also get/build a telescope and do more astronomy but I'm affraid it will take too much time and so its gonna have to wait until I get this sceenplay done. But I do allow myself the indulgence of comming in here (too often lately) and exchanging ideas with people.

Ok, so thats me done.

GeoffW1

03-09-2009, 02:39 PM

Hi Claude,

I'm not sure what point Ron was trying to make just there, but for mine you are very welcome here. :thumbsup:

Cheers

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 03:50 PM

Thanks Geoff, I appreciate you saying.

dpastern

03-09-2009, 07:03 PM

As an interesting aside, only Christianism has a hell and a devil. None of the other major religions do.

Dave

Octane

03-09-2009, 07:14 PM

Dave, I think you'll find that both Judaism and Islam, do, too.

Regards,
Humayun

renormalised

03-09-2009, 07:22 PM

So does Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, Jainism and most of the other Middle Eastern faiths. The only religion/spiritual traditions which don't are the many strains of ancient animism and female/earth based beliefs in Europe and other places...the more sharmanistic traditions and such. Modern paganism and Wicca can be counted as part of those traditions and beliefs.

astroron

03-09-2009, 07:45 PM

No One took up this point.:shrug:
What about the other creatures out there, don't they get in on the act as well?
We are quite happy to snuff out lives at the drop of a hat, arn't they also part of the work of the maker?

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 07:48 PM

Not sure what the point is Ron. Care to elaborate

renormalised

03-09-2009, 07:50 PM

Yes, they do. The only thing separating them and us is our arrogance and hubris all predicated on rather dubious belief systems which we invented ourselves.

astroron

03-09-2009, 07:51 PM

You are talking about the after life, are we the only creatures that have one?

Satchmo

03-09-2009, 07:53 PM

Do point out the bleeding obvious :)

Jen

03-09-2009, 07:59 PM

:eyepop: wow Duncan thanks for sharing that was an awsome read i felt myself moving closer and closer to the screen while i was reading that i could feel your emotions in the text :thumbsup::thumbsup:

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 08:00 PM

Ron,

I was talking about near death experiances and what these similar experiances "might" tell us about the "possibility" of an after life. I was'nt talking about a maker and not saying that anything was definate. As for what happens to the animals I assume they are in the same boat as us but your guess is as good as mine as to what that is at this stage.

mac

03-09-2009, 08:12 PM

Well it's always possible that the expanded universe(s) is made up of layers. Maybe there's a physical layer (where the laws of physics and observation apply), and then there's also a spiritual layer. However, the mere mention of 'spiritual' seems to get people upset, so we can call that the 'metaphysical' layer. The layers are attached to each other, and when something in the physical layer dies, the metaphysical layer 'adapts', or change 'state'.

Perhaps the step in evolutionary progress that humans made (over the animals) is some kind of subconscious awareness of the metaphysical layer.

Sorry, I've had a few glasses of wine tonight...

astroron

03-09-2009, 08:13 PM

Why must there be an "After life"?
People over the centuries have been fed all this stuff by priests and other religious ideologies,so it is firmly planted in the human condition.

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 08:21 PM

Ron,

Could i suggest you review the posts. I dont think anyone has advocated that there is an after life. I'm certainly not.

Even if one starts from the "assumption" that there is not an after life it does not mean that NDEs are not worthy of enquiry and examination for what they can tell us.

avandonk

03-09-2009, 08:24 PM

Near death 'experiences' are exactly what they purport to be. Your brain is about to shut down and it valiantly tries to make sense of the faltering inputs. I have never seen a a truly independantly corroborated 'near death experience'. There are many operating theaters in the world that have 'hidden objects' near the ceiling. So far no near death person has identified any one of these objects under any sort of controlled conditions..

I again emphasise controlled conditions.

No point in making up a plausible story after the event.

Bert

jjjnettie

03-09-2009, 08:32 PM

Believing in an "afterlife" is a comfort for some. Especially when faced with their own mortality.
Who are we to take this consolation away from them?

FredSnerd

03-09-2009, 08:34 PM

Bert there is alot of debate by respected scientists on all sides about excatly what NDEs are. So your simple assertion at the begining of your post saying exactly what they are doesnt help.

NDEs are alot more then identifying medical instruments in a operating theater. There are lots of pages on the net about it. Its so interesting. Could I suggest you look in on one of those. Also there is a stream of people who tell of their experiances on YouTube. You may be satisfied that most are not credible but it may be worth watching what they have to say with an open mind.

Anyways over to you