Mars and Nebulas

[Eardrum73]

Hi guys...
I have some questions regarding Mars and Nebulas.....

MARS - I am having trouble seeing the details in mars. I see from other recent threads that storms and other metoerological variants have beend detected in mars, but all I get to see is a little round orb (slighty orangy in colour) and thats it, I can't even see the polar ice caps!

Is it just my sky that is not good for viewing ? or am I doing somethig wrong, I have used 100x and 333x magnification and still can't get any detail. At this stage viewing mars and venus look exactly the same, just a round bright disk! How do you guys get the detail?


NEBULA - Ok... maybe this one is just user error... but I have never seen a Nebula.
I have been using star maps - searching the skies to see nebulas but I don't seem to locate them, or maybe I just can't see them through my scope!

I am thinking of getting a Nebula filter but the impression I got from other threads is that the Neb filters only enhances them, gives them more contrast... but it does not make locating them easier. So until I can locate a nebula its fairly pointless having a filter anyway.

What are you thoughts on this?

(so far my viewing experience have been limited to white dots in the sky and star clusters.....)


As for equipment.... I have a 12' dob.

[ving]

'ere we go :)

Mars: are you getting too much glare and therefore cnt see any detail? if so you might consider an aperture mask. also are you waiting for it to me high in the sky? if its too low it will just be washed out in the earth atmosphere.

nebulas: dont expect what you see in pictures. you will see in the bright ones green and that about it. alot of them will look grey. also use your lowest magnification to find them and view them. high magnification will wash them out. keep trying. if you have a 20mm eyepiece of higher use that. :)

hope this helps

[Eardrum73]

Thanks Ving...

Nebulas - for Nebulas I have tried with my 26mm 2 inch, but have no luck! I've never expected to see Nebulas in color, just some grey mist and shape is fine for me....

Mars - As far mars... I only look at mars at around 9 to 10pm, so i think it would have risen some by then.
But do you think its the glare? is that a common thing when viewing mars? Do you youself use an apeture mask to see mars? does anyone else?

[Starkler]

How does Mars look when you are viewing it, is it shimmying like you're viewing it through a pot of boiling water? If the seeing conditions are bad or your scope isnt properly cooled thermal currents will wash out any detail. If your scope isnt well collimated that will also work against you. The polar cap is tiny right now and hard to see. Spend a bit of time at the eyepiece as seeing conditions can fluctuate and you can get moments of great seeing.
As for magnifications, 100x might be a bit low making the target too bright, and 300x is going to be too high in anything but fantastic seeing which is all too rare.

As for viewing nebulae, dark skies and getting your eyes dark adapted are important as most are quite faint. There is a huge difference in what I can see between my light polluted home location and a dark sky site. Two of the brightest ones around are the Orion neb M42 and the Tarantula neb NGC2070 which you should be able to see even in your finderscope.

[davidpretorius]

Mars at 9 or 10 oclock may still be very low to the horizon and the earths atmosphere will cause it to boil.

Over the last 4 nights of viewing mars, 3 of those 4 the "seeing" was very bad. THere was no cloud, no moon, mars was high in the sky, but jetstreams and other things meant that mars was simply a red smudge!! And yet on the other occasion, the 12mm (100x) eyepiece i saw detail on the surface, no polar ice, but the dark bands and areas.

Orion is following mars by about one hour. Have a look at the handle of the saucepan and you will see a cloud.

I am very lucky here, I have dark skys, so nebulas fill the 32mm ultrawide 80 degree 2" eyepice if i look at tarantula near the large magellanic clouds. The last two occassions, i have been very pleased with what i have seen. Mind you this is at around 3am in the morning!!!

Try orion first at say 11 pm tonight weather permitting.

[seeker372011]

where do you live? can you go along to an observing night where someone can help you find stuff?

[rmcpb]

Make sure your scope is well collimated, cooled and that Mars is above 30 degrees above the horizon. Even in very average seeing conditions I can see the darker markings on the orange disk at about 100x mag so you should be able to see it as well. Maybe glare is a problem for you, I use an aperture mask when viewing Venus or I just get a white blob. With a mask that reduces the aperture to 60mm I distinctly see the phases of Venus so try stopping down your scope on Mars - worth a try. If you make a mask try to get the holes lined up with gaps between the spider to remove the diffraction spikes.

As for nebulae, low power, dark adaption, dark skies (where are you located?) and time to look. Try averted vision but in your scope I would have thought the Trifid nebula would be easily seen and the Orion nebula would be fairly bright with even a hint of colour. Keep trying and go to a viewing night somewhere.

Keep us posted of your progress.....

[Eardrum73]

Ello people!

I stayed up until 1am last night (late to work this morning) so I could get a good look at orion. AND YES!!! Finally got to lay my eyes on m42 nebula. Probably the most beatiful sight I have seen on my scope. It had a almost non detectable greenish hue to it. Now I will have to invest in a nebula filter!!!!

However mars and venus are still a problem for me (I would imagine this would be the same for other planets as well)... at no time have I been able to see more than a bright disk with planets. What is an aperture mask? and where can I buy one? or do I have to make it myself?

[rmcpb]

I had a look at Mars last night and while the transparency was great the turbulance was horrid. I could make out the disk, see some dark spots during the better moments but that was about all. To get good planetary views you need both good transparency and low turbulance and with the weather the way it is at present the atmosphere is quite turbulent.

An aperture mask is simply a piece of cardboard that can be attached to the front of your scope with a hole cut in it to reduce your aperture. I have one with two holes which gives two images unitl the image is focused then they superimpose on each other. I use it to look at Venus and the Moon.

Keep trying but don't expect to get a sharp view of the planets each time you go out. Spring is the time of year when the atmosphere is a bit crazy and unfortunately for us this time it is when Mars is closest, oh well at least it makes the good view great when you get them :)

[ving]

i might make a 2 hole one... tho my one holer works fine i like the focus thingo :)

[Eardrum73]

When i bought my scope it came with a cover, and the cover had two little removable lids on it. I was wondering these were for....

I am beginning to suspect that this is some sort of apeture mask.....

[rmcpb]

Perfect!! You can open one or both depending on how much light you need - have a go but make sure the holes are lined up between the spider veins.

Cheers

[RAJAH235]

Eardrum, Do you have a 'Planisphere'? This will help in locating the constellations. The 'Chandler', (large version), is best. ~$23.00 from Bintel.
The Orion Neb., in your 12" will definitely show a green tinge to it, conditions permitting. The Nebula filter will assist with the fainter ones & planetary nebulae etc etc...
It will probably kill a lot of the colour tho!
As stated, try the Tarantula Neb. NGC2070 near the LMC. With good seeing, you should be able to go fairly high in mag. (+200X). Same with Orion. Try to find the 'e & f' components in the 'Trapezium'. Should be easy in the 12" @ around 120 x.
The tube cover with 2 holes is an Aperture mask. Use it on the brighter objects. Either 1 or 2 uncovered. Experiment.
If you're out early enough, (7~9pm), try the 'Tail of Scorpio'/'Teapot' area. Lots of good stuff around there. Open clusters, Globs. etc etc......
HTH. :D L.

[davidpretorius]

Well done, it is amazing piece of the sky.

Just lower than that on the bottom right star of the three in a row, there is a nebula that i can just make out. The other side of the star is where the horsehead lives. You will be very hard pressed to see the horsehead!!! Apparently 20" telescopes are needed.

Tornado33 has just imaged it http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=60157#post60157

Before you go and get a filter, I would try before you buy at one of the nsw gatherings. At starcamp, once i was collimated and the seeing conditions were still and the sky was dark, then i got to try three big nebulas all together with a cheaper filter and an expensive $200 filter and some very expensive naglers.

I look at orion, tarantula & the keyhole.

For me, a filter is well down the list of things to buy. Yes there was some improvement, but not anything that would make me spend $200!

I honestly would forget about them initially, as I can't see them doubling or tripling the viewing pleasure. Maybe in city skys they may have more dramatic effects, but on that nice dark night, they was nice, but not that nice that i absolutely must have one.

I would rather build a set of nice eyepieces first and then go about finishing it off with a range of filters, not the other way around.

The planets: It all comes back to "seeing" conditions. Mars when the atmosphere is still, then you can see detail, ie dark markings even with a 12mm eyepiece. When the "seeing" is bad, then it is a blob.

You may have no clouds in the sky, but the seeing can be bad and the planets will give up no detail!!!

[rumples riot]

Mars and Venus are very hard to look at through any scope. I have a 10" scope and Venus is just a bright crescent. Not really much to look at.

Mars is also very bright and filters on the EP do make a difference. That said, some detail can be seen on nights when the seeing is very steady. The images you see in the forums on planetary photography are not an indication of what you can see with the naked eye. They are Hi res images and are the result of many frames being stacked on top of each other. Lots of filtering and image processing.

Jupiter when it comes shows more detail than any of the planets. Mars should show you some dark patches in good seeing. I have been looking into the heavens for a long time and never seen the planets really all that great. However, many planetary viewers do claim they can see great detail on moments of extreme calm. Keep trying.

My suggestion is get a couple of planetary filters for your EP's This will help to bring out the detail.

As for Nebula I use and O3 filter which really brings out the detail.

Best of luck. You have a good size scope and should get many years of enjoyment out of it. Checking collimation would also help too.