PC run amok!

[Peter Ward]

While attending a rather pleasant soire'e at Sydney Observatory, just before things started in earnest, a short recognition was made of the "traditional" land owners.

I thought this was some sort of silly governmental directive, but heard the same remarks being made by a Qantas Purser over the PA after touching down in Sydney.

How did the aboriginal culture contribute to the building of Sydney Observatory?...or the largely filled in land mass that was once either swamp or Botany Bay, but is now Sydney Airport?

Is this some sort of politik-speak now creeping into all Australian activities?
Why? What's the point?

[kinetic]

They contributed the land Pete :)
I thought it was obvious.

Steve

[Baddad]

Hi Steve and Peter,

Yeah, that's right,, Mother Earth.:D;):lol:

Cheers Marty

[Peter Ward]

Maybe we should give recognition to the wombats and wallabies...etc Their species was here first.

[dpastern]

I do find it odd (and funny) since the traditional aborigional peoples didn't own the land. Yes, they were territorial (i.e. defend their territory from other tribes), but that was to protect their food stocks. Aboriginals didn't think of the land the way that western people do (i.e. I own it, it's mine). Modern aborigines have been vastly altered by the white fella and now think like a white fella. I tend to laugh and shake my head at modern aborigionals make grabs for land.

Not all Aborigines care about money grabbing tactics I might add. Many are content with what they have.

Dave

PS Oh and before anyone says I'm being racist etc, I actually have aboriginal blood in me (albeit small amounts on my mother's side). I've actually spent time as a youth living amongst Aboriginal people, on an Aboriginal mission (out near Caroona in NSW).

[Peter Ward]

Humm...perhaps Qantas should thank the Normans...traditional owners of Heathrow....when touching down there.

Sorry...it's all just nucking futs to me :)

[marki]

Peter you could always fly to and from Antartica, that way you would only have to put up with the rhetoric when you landed in sydney :P:D.

Mark

[renormalised]

I'd watch what I was saying....the problem with an issue like this is it's that touchy that even mere mention of it these days, gets you time in the sin bin. The whole thing has become so ridiculous that you can't even voice an opinion based on fact and well reasoned thoughts without having your head bitten off by the thought police and the trendy do-gooders. I'd written something else here, but thought better of it. Not that it was racist or defamatory, but because it would've touched a raw nerve of someone, somewhere, who hasn't a clue about what they're on about and was just on some trendy nonsensical tirade of "socially progressive" do-goodership.

[Alchemy]

you are an intelligent person peter , however.



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there you go, my opinion on the subject

[Peter Ward]

The explain my use of said term..... and if you don't think it's funny you are probably N...... F... IMHO :)

http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/nuckin_futs

I find the notion "we must not offend" at all costs in post Keating Oz...well... Ironic.

If rational thought, opinion or debate must be stifled for fear of "offence"
then we have surely lost the plot.

[marki]

UhOh ........Ten, Nine, Eight, Seven, Six, Five, Four, three, two.............:P:D

Mark

[avandonk]

Remember Pete set your flaps and then your attitude and then trim. If you change your thrust then do the same.

Bert

[kinetic]

Like most good pilots, I think Peter knew full well where he was
headed before he took off with this one.;)

[mill]

On another note, and not to be anti christianity.
According to the bible we come from Adam and Eve so we all have Aboriginal blood in us, and blood from all over the world.
Ergo we can claim whatever we want :P

[Peter Ward]

:lol: Bert , the 380 auto-trims.

[Wavytone]

Adam and Eve were middle eastern - surely you mean the "indigines" actually are middle eastern ? - or are they descended from marsupials ?

[PCH]

Me too, but hey ...

The Saxons, Angles et al should be thanking the Celts.
The Vikings should be thanking the Saxons, the Angles and the Celts.
The Normans should be thanking the Vikings, the Saxons, the Angles and the Celts.
And modern day Brits should be thanking all of them !

It's all total rubbish as far as I'm concerned and it annoys the cr-p out of me when I hear this rubbish being spoken.

And how far back should we go? When does it stop? There have been some good points raised here, but ultimately these things were done when that's how it was done. That's all there is to it, and we have to live with it! And we (all) should be happy to live with it. Consider this, - if it hadn't been for those that did risk their all to come and stick the flag in the ground, the aussie locals could have fared a whole lots worse if some other races from not so far away had decided they liked the look of terra australis.

I think those great adventurers who risked life and limb to sail over the edge and discover new lands etc, would be turning in their graves if they could see how we're carrying on now. I imagine they also would think we were "nucking futs".

Just my 2c :thumbsup:

[theodog]

Why bother Peter. Car not running this weekend?

I am not Aboriginal but I find this thread offensive, and narrow minded.

Why is it allowed??

[Peter Ward]

Hey....just so we are clear. I have no problems or issues with any race or culture.

I do have problems with the PC police offering on my behalf apologies, recognition, compensation for issues that exist in many other countries but without the need to play a racist card if you don't agree.

This could end going into a flat spin...not my intention....I was simply curious as to what others thought.

[Stuart78]

I am sure that if the British didn't aquire this great land, the Japs sure would have at some stage, i would hate to see how that would have ended up, i definatly feel for the Aborigines and what our ancestors did to them in regard with displacment of there children among a whole lot of other things, but the land thing is going to be a messy subject for a long time to come unfortunatly..







Stu..

[dpastern]

Agreed. Wholly agreed. Sadly, until true freedom of speech is legislated in Australia, and Internet based forums are policed (impossible to do, note my ironic sarcasm tone lol), we'll have forums not allowing us to say something because of the "we must not offend" police.

Dave

[Peter Ward]

Are you serious? Such things can't be discussed?

I am genuinely curious as to why these land recognition chants... almost forms of "grace" have crept in. To what end? Why is asking the question offensive?

...and yes...car is in the shop (new clutch)

[dpastern]

Peter - I think that the land recognition simply boils down to modern man's guilt of what our ancestors may have done, or did do, to our indigenous Aboriginals. Remember, 100,000+ Tasmanian Aboriginals were butchered to clear the land for white fellas. I think a lot of politicians and people do feel bad about this, and even though we're not directly responsible, I do think we should be morally brave enough to say sorry. Compensation for these past crimes by giving out land is rather silly.

Let me just add something to this thread - consider Uluru. As a photographer, I CANNOT take a photograph of it without the permission of the local Aborigionals who are supposedly the traditional "owners" of the surrounding lands. I have to provide them with a copy of each and every image that I've taken, and they can veto any or all images, without so much as a valid reason. I must then destroy the images. If I want to sell images, I have to pay the government in order to do so (which gives money to the aforementioned Aboriginals) - something in the vicinity of $1000/day. This is just plain silly. The land belongs to mother nature. Not man. It never has, and never will.

Dave

edit: the costs for shooting Uluru have to be paid, by the photographer, up front, irrespective of whether all or any images are vetoed by said Aboriginals, or even if they sell (or whatever price that the image might even fetch as a working pro). Silly eh?

[avandonk]

My younger brother is a check captain for Qantas now (brother seven of nine). I used to take him flying in the late seventies. We used to fart around with a Bellancas amongst the boring Cessnas and Pipers.

Bert

[mill]

It looks like in these time everything is in one or the other way offensive.
Whatever you say is not tolerated by one or another group (minority or not).
It is like walking on thin shelled eggs.
You say "this" then you are a rascist, you say "that" and you are against beliefs.
When do people start to wake up and try to be NOT to be so politically correct.
Free speech has gone down the drain :(

[theodog]

OK I understand.
One has the right to free speach, but not to offence.
Put the offended into the same class as climate skeptics.
I welcome free speach if it constructive. Perhaps "Welcome to Country" is free speech.

P.S.
Oh, I believe it is acknowleging the traditional CUSTODIANS not owners.

[Peter Ward]

Cheesh...there goes a star trails panorama above Ayers Rock (as Uluru was called when i went to school) I had planned :)

As for feeling guilty. No for a millisecond. My parents were hard working immigrants who helped build this country (My mother literally ran from Nazi's). Sadly history is full of such events on most continents.

This whole apologist thing reminds me very much of Python's life of Brian:

Reg: They've bled us white, the *******s. They've taken everything we had, not just from us, from our fathers and from our fathers' fathers. Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.
Reg: Yes.

.......it goes on

Reg: All right ... all right ... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order ... what have the Romans done for us? Xerxes: Brought peace!
Reg: (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) What!? Oh ... (scornfully) Peace, yes ... shut up!

[dpastern]

I don't remember that part of the Life of Brian, must buy it when I see it (as well as the meaning of life).

As to Ayers Rock (or Uluru, I'm not fussed as to either name to be honest), I kid you not. I like my chances of going to Mars better than getting an image of it. It's ridiculous. Worse, our politicians pander to this BS. You can't take images in most local Councils and sell for profit, not without paying the council and getting a permit first. Sydney City Council is horrid in this respect. It's public property FFS - why *can't* I? Public. Public, public.

This world has gone very crazy, especially in the last 20 years (I'm not that old, but I'm old enough). Political correctness is not healthy.

Dave

PS My father was lucky to survive WW2 - he was Six when it ended. He saw many atrocities that still upset him even till today. He spent nearly all of his youth in Germany being cared for by priests, as did many youth.

[astronut]

MAS holds public nights at The Campbelltown Rotary Observatory in the grounds of UWS Campbelltown.
I have been instructed (as president) to acknowledge the traditional land owners before commencing the night.
PC gone mad!!

[Peter Ward]

Who made this instruction? What are the consequences if you refuse?

[stephenb]

This is my opinion also. Should the Saxons have thanked the Romans for leaving the country? Should the Romans have thanked the previous Iron age societies? Should those Iron Age societies have thanked the previous Bronze Age societies?......................... .........



100% agree. This happened on every continent, with every tribe or civilisation since the dawn of man, and even before. It is a part of historical fact that some civilisations were conquered as a part of a greater cause. Whether that cause was correct or justified by today's standards is irrelevant.

[astronut]

Upper management. Consequences? None......yet!:lol: