Neck problems...

[Shep]

This might sound silly but i wondered how everyones necks go looking into the scopes, I have had a neck injury and while it doesnt bother me on a daily basis it can flare up from repetitive straining. I would really love to get a scope and see how i go but i thought i would ask around first, if its a problem for others i guess i'll just have to be content looking at astromony books and online instead of with my own scope, i wouldnt want to buy one only to have it sit in the cupboard for that reason.

[jjjnettie]

Welcome to IIS Shep,
You'll be better off with a Newtonian style scope on a dobsonian mount. The eyepiece will be at a more convenient height. Pair it with an adjustable observing stool and I reckon you'll be just fine.

[Shep]

Ah COOL! Thanks so much for replying! Those terms are a bit over my head still but i sure will look into them!

[jjjnettie]

Click on this link and scroll down to the bottom and you'll see a fine selection of Dobsonian scopes.
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm
They're easy to set up and use too.

[Mike21]

Hi Shep,

Can't even guess what your real name is, your profile is kinda devoid of info. I was a bit sheepish in the beginning too (I'm not suggesting that is why you've called yourself Shep). This is actually the first time that I'm mentioning my profession on IIS. I am a chiropractor.

Over the last year I've collected one cheap version of every type of scope. Having done so, here are my findings. Firstly, I will admit that it doesn't take someone with my professional knowledge to reach my conclusions and I hope that others post their opinions too!

Firstly; avoid astrophotography with a dSLR through a refractor pointed at zenith. I shan't go into too much detail since you haven't even bought a scope yet, but unless your name is Shep Houdini, you're stuffed.

Ideally you want a setup with the eyepiece at face level when standing and the capacity to easily rotate the focuser. I don't want to leave you behind with jargon, nor do I want to fill the website up with lengthly posts. Feel free to email me if it gets too much.

I advise against reflectors on a tripod. Reflectors on a dobsonian base are good (and Dobs are good for beginners) if the eyepiece is at face level. I have a 200X1200mm Dob and it's commonly a bit of a stoop. I imaging a taller Dob would be spot on unless you are a dwarf. I have not used a larger Dob, finances prevent it.

Long tubes on a tripod are also a no-no since the length of the tube caused too much variation in eyepiece (EP from now on) height between horizon and zenith.

Short tubes on a tripod are excellent. This gives you two options. A short refractor or a cassegrain/compound telescope.

Therefore you can have any scope you want, you just have to be selective about the mount. Short refractors and compounds on a tripod with either a EQ or Alt/Az mount or reflectors on a Dob.

The above options will make astronomy available to the stiffest neck but an adjustable viewing chair will assist greatly too. At this point I have to depart slightly from speaking from experience because I've never owned one, but I'm sure they are very useful.

Lastly, another recommended starting point is a pair of binoculars on a nice tripod. I reckon they are a great place to start; not everyone agrees with me. The only part of the sky out of range with this set up is (and this'll sound boring) the zenith.

I expect a barrage of questions from this. But my main point is to not let your neck prevent you from studying our beautiful skies.

[Shep]

Thanks Mike, I added my name to my details lol, Thanks for all the info, im still just going through some of the older posts and getting my bearings with the lingo. I'll be sure to post my questions once i read a bit more, I'm sure everyone gets sick of newbies coming in with the same questions all the time ;) Is there a place where people sell there used stuff as they upgrade?

[sheeny]

Good advice here so far, Shep.:thumbsup:

You aren't from Oberon are you???:whistle: (I just happen to know a Shep or 2... EDIT: ah, I've just seen your latest post... add a new Shep to the list;))

Either a DOB, or an SCT/Maksutov on a tripod would be good options. A diagonal will help your neck with an SCT or Maksutov. BTW if you get a dob that is too low, you can make a box to sit it on to raise it to a better height:thumbsup:.

An adjustable observing chair will probably be a good investment, regardless of what sort of scope you get, as they will provide a good range of adjustment.

I suspect the scope may be the least of your problems... the finderscope may prove to be a bigger challenge. A straight through finderscope will be a pain near zenith no matter what scope you have, and a right angle finder can be a bit more awkward to use but will be better on your neck at high altitudes. If your neck is really bad I would recommend 2 finderscopes... a right angle one to use near zenith and say a Telrad or red dot finder to use at low altitude.

As for binoculars, yes they are a great way to start, but you have 3 options to save your neck:


Build a front surface mirror mount that will allow you to look down at 90° to the actual direct you are seeing (I'm sure someone has posted details on IIS somewhere);
Build or buy a binocular chair... that's a swivel chair that reclines and has (usually) large binoculars mounted conveniently to look through; or
Use a reclining lounge or a blanket on the ground and lay down to observe:thumbsup: (sleeping bag to keep warm:thumbsup:, warm drink in a camelback:thumbsup::thumbsup:)

A bad neck shouldn't eliminate you from astronomy:). We'll help you solve it:thumbsup:. (It's all done with mirrors:P:lol:).

Al.

[Blue Skies]

I was thinking about this too and was going to recommend a right-angle finder, or an erect image finder. Some of the latter have 45 degree diagonals on the back but that is still enough an angle that you don't have to get right behind it. With a right angle finder the image is flipped two ways, upside down and then back to front, and it can be a bit of a mental challenge to turn things around to work out which way to move the scope. An erect image finder would give you a right way up view of the sky. The average straight-through finder gives you an upside down image, btw.

I also recommend getting a chair, they make it so much more comfortable to view. Dobs can be placed on a small stool or specially made table, they don't have to stay on the ground and that extra foot in height can make a big difference.

Best thing to do, as always, is get down to a local club meeting and try out other peoples scopes. That will give you a feel for what you like and can cope with.

[Mike21]

I have no intention of hijacking this thread but I've been dying to ask Sheeny where hae got the name Pocklebonk from. I also wanted to let him know that my brother and father live at the Lagoon and my brother is contracted out at CSR. Nice skys over your way!

[sheeny]

At the risk of hijacking the thread...

"Pocklebonk" is what the frogs in our dams say in spring time. I'm quite sure it translates to "Wow! Look at all the stars!":)

Moderators, do what you have to do if you want to.:)

Al.

[Shep]

:lol2:

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and great advice! Thats a fantastic idea about going down the the local club meet i must see if there is one here locally in Cairns!

[erick]

Now you are talking! Seeing, touching (with permission!), asking questions, trying - that's what you need to do. :)

[MrB]

There sure is, and it's right here on Ice In Space!
IceTrade Classifieds (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27)

[erick]

You'd better pop down to Townsville and visit Liz:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/member.php?u=3359

[renormalised]

http://www.users.bigpond.com/jamesbak.htm

Here you go, Sarah:):)

[astro_nutt]

Hi all!,
Mike 21 and Blue skies have hit the right note...when I started using dobs and found the extent of contorsionism required, I made to suit my height etc and came up with an alt-azimuth mount, slow-motion motoriszed gearing, tube rings so I can rotate the tube for a more comfortable angle and a right-angle finder....works well!...and makes for a more enjoyable viewing
Cheers!

[Mike21]

Positioning is one thing when staring into an EP for protracted periods. Warmth is another. My style of chiropractic focuses heavily on muscle tension. MUSCLES HATE GETTING COLD AND REMAINING STATIONARY! That's why getting up in the morning is so horrible. If it needs to be said, this phenomenon gets worse with age, which is why kids are up and at'em so quickly; before teenage slothness sets in anyway.

I have a neck muffle as part of my play clothes when I go out into the dark and cold evening. It's like a beanie without a top. You pull it over your head and scrunch it up about your neck; then put a beanie on too. Wear a balaklava if there are no witnesses around. That's the warmth part tackled.

Avoid getting mesmerised by the beautiful scene down the tube. Stand up and walk about every so often so that your muscle are not tortured by isometric bordom. It rests your viewing eye too.

[AdrianF]

I have 3 cracks in my neck 2 in one bone and 1 in another. I find that taking regular breaks, walk away from the scope an move my neck, works. If I stayed at the scope I probably could only use it for an hour at the most.
:welcome:to IIS

Adrian

[AdrianF]

Never. I think I have asked questions on here that have been asked 1000's of times before and knowledgeable people on this forum will answer the same questions 1000's of times more.

Adrian

[renormalised]

Another thing you could do to negate neck strain ( I have a neck problem as well....compacted disks and arthritis), and that is to get a camera like a GStar and connect it up to your scope. They're a specialised type of video camera for astronomy and what you can do with one (even on a dob) is have it connected to your scope and then to your laptop. Then you can view what you're looking at on the laptop screen instead of having to follow your eyepiece all over the place as you move the scope. You also have the extra benefit of being able to take piccies of the objects you're looking at as well:D:D

There's a couple of us here that have GStars (myself and Jeanette (jjj), for instance) and we'd be more than happy to help you out, should you decide to purchase one. If you want to have a look at one, goto this page... http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/cameras.asp (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/cameras.asp). Steve Massey is a really cool guy and he'll give you all the help you could ever want or need:D:D

[erick]

Mind you, they are 1000 different answers! :D

[erick]

And, as I understand it, they can be set to integrate the signal for different periods of time, so you will see, on the screen, fainter objects that you can see through the eyepiece. Even things that are hard to see in light-polluted areas can be pulled out of the light pollution. Is that the experience, guys?

[renormalised]

Yep, you can routinely see objects you'd never hope to see yourself by eye alone in the ep'. Some you may get with averted vision but many will be beyond that. A Gstar will pull a lot of stuff out of the light pollution, but with the right combo of filters and such, the results are even better.

[AdrianF]

Wouldnt have it anyother way. At least I dont end up with a narrow minded view............:lol:

Adrian

[Mike21]

Repetition is also an excellent way to learn things. You're just not gunna learn a lot of stuff without revision.

[Shep]

Well....after all the advice and reading and looking I finally bought one today! I got the Celestron Astromaster 130EQ for $599. I looked at 10" Dobs because everyone here seems to like them so much but I so wouldnt be able to manage one of those haha they almost look bigger than me and I really wanted something I would be able to lift and set up without having to hassle anyone for help with. Thankyou so much to everyone here with your encouraging words and support, I was almost convinced it would be a no go with my neck but so far this feels quite comfortable. Anyway just thought I'd let you all know i'm ready and armed and look forward to joining in in the forum now that i'm started! :thumbsup:

[sheeny]

Congrats, Sarah!

You're on the slippery slope now...:whistle:

Al.

[chrisp9au]

Congratulations Sarah,

The first accessory you should consider buying for that new scope is a comfortable observing chair.
If you are not comfortable, your observing suffers! You really do see more if you're sitting!
The chair doesn't have to be expensive, it just has to be the right height to cover most of your viewing positions.
There are all sorts of observing chairs around, from the really expensive ones down to home made ones.
Mine? a second hand Ikea stool, bought on eBay for $30, exactly the right height, light but solid. Saves me a lot of pain later on in the night.

Enjoy your new scope!

Cheers :thumbsup:
Chris

[Shep]

Thanks guys. I've been trying to will the afternoon to go faster...cant wait to get it out in the dark!

[renormalised]

If it's still a problem for your neck, observing with your scope, after awhile, you can get around that by grabbing yourself a GStar EX camera and a laptop (if you have one). That way, you can use the lappy to observe the objects onscreen. Plus you can take piccies at the same time:D

Just noticed I'd posted this exact same response about a fortnight ago:doh::D

[Shep]

Yeah...I saw your earlier posts. How much is a set up like that worth? (if you dont mind sharing) :)

[renormalised]

Well, if you go here....MyAstroShop (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-214), you can see what you get. You can also get the wireless transmitter (http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-178C)for an extra $110, which is better than having heaps of cables lying about.

Also, here's a couple of charts for around 9pm tonight, from Cairns. They're looking towards Cygnus, Sagittarius/Capricorn and towards the SMC (Small Magellanic Cloud).

[Shep]

Ok...i'm having a little trouble trying to get my scope working well, ive spotted a few stars but i think the moon will be a good start when it rises....does anyone know what time that should be tonight? It was up this time a couple of nights ago because I watched it rise and it was a beautiful huge harvest moon. Thanks so much for those charts too :)

[jjjnettie]

Hi Sarah,
Just have a look at the moon image on the left hand side of this page. It has the rise and set times there.

[Shep]

I saw the moon .....WOW!!!!!!! I could see the craters, i could see little flashing green and red bits near alot of the craters too, does anyone know what they are?

[renormalised]

Never seen anything like that near craters...not in all the time I've looked at the Moon. Might just be some optical effect caused by humidity, air currents in the tube of the scope, or rarely, LTP's (Lunar Transient Phenomena), which is outgassing from fractures in the Moon's surface of radioactive gases.

[jjjnettie]

That called chromatic aberration, or CA for short.
The eyepiece that came with your scope isn't made of the highest quality glass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration
There is also Atmospheric Aberration. That's what causes bright stars, when they are close to the horizon, to twinkle madly, changing colour from red to blue to green to white to red. Very pretty really. AA happens because you are looking at that star through a lot of atmosphere and smog. Stars are always sharpest when they are straight above your head.

[Shep]

Was anyone else watching the moon tonight? Didnt anyone else see them? Now I feel like a crazy person lol I had someone else with me, they couldnt see it at first but I insisted and then they saw it too. It stayed in the same spots on the moon no matter our focus or if we changed the scope, it was pretty cool though, I dont know the actual part of the moon but looking through my view (with it upside down or back to front or whatever it is) there were 3 large craters at the bottom edge of the moon and just above those craters and to the right a bit in all the smaller dints, thats where the sparkles were. The moon is like a harvest moon here tonight so maybe its just where I am? Sorry i'm all new to this and dont want to sound too much like a numptie lol

[erick]

Sarah, were you looking at the Moon soon after it rose, close to the horizon? If so, I think you were just seeing effects of all the air that the Moonlight was passing through. Have another look when it is higher in the sky and see if the colours are no longer seen.

[erick]

Try to point your telescope at the brightest thing in the sky apart from the Moon. It should be almost directly above you, That is Jupiter. You should see its four moons in a line with it - three on one side and the fourth on the other side. Maybe you will see a couple of dark cloud bands across Jupiter's surface?

[Shep]

Ok I had a look on Google Earth to try a pick the part of the moon. Those 3 dints I was looking at may be Boussingault? Maybe someone here can confirm that?

Yeah it was soon after rising, i'll go back out and have a look in a little bit too? And yep I saw Jupiter as well :D

[erick]

OK Sarah, here are two challenges for you.

First attached is the star Alberio (where that beige circle is). Try to locate that and have a close look and tell us what you see.

Second attached is a globular cluster M15 - just off the "nose" of Pegasus (where the blue rectangle is). Try this one? Might be a bit harder if you have light pollution. The bright Moon will not help.

[Shep]

I'll have to save those for tomorrow night :) I've just brought it all back inside and better hit the hay as its nearly midnight! I did look at the moon again when it didnt have the orange glow and I couldnt see any sparkling bits this time. I'll look again tomorrow night too and see if they are back when its orange, my brain is massively dreary now after so much input today lol

[erick]

Where on this image of the Moon was the region that you were interested in?

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=49991

[Shep]

In the middle of the top arc of the moon (if that makes sense) it looks like you can only see 2 of the 3 craters there but that where the flashing, never mind me though i'm sure it was just beginners luck with light or reflections or something with the harvest moon :)

[renormalised]

12 O'clock...soon it'll be 1am, then 2am and then before you know it, you'll be up till 5am and the Sun's rays will be warming the horizon. That's when you know you're hooked:D:D

Next thing to watch for is an elongating of your upper canine teeth and an intolerance to sunlight:P:P:D:D

Once you start taking piccies of objects, then you've gone over to the dark side completely:D:D

<queue James Earl Jones talking through a raspy respirator, down a deep toilet bowl:P:D>Young one, you have yet to experience the full power of the dark side. Be patient, your time will come soon enough</queue>:P:D

[Shep]

Haha yeah, I dont think i'll pull any all nighters soon, but the night sure can slip by fast, I went out again last night at about 11.45 to try watch the moon again but there were too many clouds, I did grab a quick peek at Jupiter again which was good, and then it was 1 am already! I was so tired when I set up but I pepped up as soon as I started looking and only came inside knowing I'd be a write off today if I didnt try get to sleep lol

[renormalised]

That's the problem with living up here. For about 6 months it's too cloudy to do anything, and when the clouds do go away on those rare days, the transparency is shot.

That's when you have to make most of the winter and get as much in as you can. So, no more sleepy byes for you next winter:P:P:D:D