Skywatcher SW 450?

[Oliver Gigacz]

I was thinking of getting the Skywatcher sw 450 for my younger brother. Is it any good? What sort of views do you get. Any pics of what you can see with it would be great?

[Mike21]

Hard to say whether or not you'll be impressed, because I don't what you expect. I found this site semi-useful before I bought anything.

http://www.astronomics.com/main/category.asp/catalog_name/Astronomics/category_name/FTXGMWMUU3HM8KXKXVNJS5VDJ5/Page/1

I have peered through the smaller 76mm version and did see Saturn's rings and one of its Moons, not crystal clear like the images on the website though. Our Moon will look quite impressive through it. They reckon (whoever they are) that you may magnify up to the scope's diameter (in mm) times 2. Theoretically this means you'll be able to push it to 200x, but it'd be safer to expect half of that, about 100x. I'd be a cold day in hell before you get an image like the one on the above website at 200x through the 450. Incidentally, I gather that 450 refers to four and a half inches, not 450mm. 450mm is a BIG scope. Hope that helps. Good luck.

[Oliver Gigacz]

So which version of Saturn do you reckon you will be able to see 50, 100, 200 or 400?

[Mike21]

You'll probably see the size of the 100x pic, but it'll be a browny, yellow blob with a smudge round it. Not nearly as sharp.

[Oliver Gigacz]

For around the same price ($300-$350) could I get a better one?

[Mike21]

This is probably going to be the best info you've received yet!

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

Andrews sell the 450 (114x900) for $129.00

And a 130x900 for $199.00

I guess you're gunna hafta add postage, but Andrews are safe, reliable and happy to listen to queries and complaints after the sale has been made. Ask for Luke. It sounds corny, but tell them Michael from Newcastle sent you. He's worth calling just to query.

Alternatively, hang out in the on the second hand scopes part of this site. A 200mm Dobsonian (Dobs are brill for beginners) sold tonight for $250 in Melbourne.

Bigger aperture makes for clearer, contrasty images. Magnification isn't really what it's all about. A small sharp image is greatly more satisfying than a big hazy blob. Most nights, due to atmospheric conditions, its worth magnifying beyond 100-150x even with a big scope.

[Mike21]

Than meant to read its NOT worth magnifying over 150x

[Oliver Gigacz]

So lets say a budget of around $200-250 which would you get and what sort of maginfaction would you get with it?

[Mike21]

I'd probably go for the 130x900 but since you and your younger brother are beginners, I'd stay away from an equitorial mount (EQ), they're bloody tricky for learners. Try posting exactly the same question in the Beginners Start Here section. You'd be best getting a few opinions and it seems many experienced astronomers (more experienced than me) hang out there to advise the likes of you and your brother. Your post may have been missed by others in the equipment discussions part of Ice in Space. Many others like you ask very similar questions in the Beginners section. Remember though, magnification is one of the least important considerations. Clarity is far more rewarding. Don't rush things. Surf this site for at least a couple of weeks before committing. Have you considered binoculars? $350 would get a nice pair and a tripod for them. Binoculars have many advantages over scopes for beginners in my opinion. Others won't agree with me.

It's a big and initially very confusing hobby. Hang in there and read more threads.

[Oliver Gigacz]

OK this is big help. What sort of mangifaction does the 130x900

[Mike21]

Oliver, you must get your obsession with magnification under control; it is NOT an important criterion to enjoying visual astrononmy. It has more relevance to solar system astrophotography. You are after clarity! As far as reflecting telescopes go, and they are a good place to start, fatter is better, big aperture. The fattest scope for your buck will probably be found here in the second hand market. In the less-than-$500 market you'll be struggling, but it can be done. Like I said earlier, a 200mm Dobsonian sold last night in Melbourne for $250. I bought exactly the same thing for $325 some months ago second hand and I thought I got good deal. 200mm dobs come up fairly regularly because they are considered to be an ideal starting point and many get immediately hooked and want bigger. Dobs are easy to control (miles easier than an equitorially mounted tube) and provide a very pleasing view of most heavenly phenomina.

IF magnification was important (and it isn't) the apperture NEEDS to be big for that too. To a beginner (and others) aperture is nearly everything, which is why they coined the phrase "aperture fever". A scope's function is primarily to collect light, not to magnify it. If your scope can collect lots of light (a function of aperture) then you at least have the opportunity to magnify. Trying to magnify the image of a narrow tube will lead to tears.

Keep saving and watch the second hand forum. Keep reading articles on reviews and what's going on in the beginners' section. Or even decide on a price you are willing to pay and put an ad in the Trade/WANTED section. It will probably inspire someone to want to clean out their scope room and offer you something they haven't used for a while.

[renormalised]

If I were you, Oliver, I would save up for a little bit longer and then purchase an 8" dob. You will be getting a scope that is very portable and has the image resolution and light gathering capacity to keep you and your brother quite happy for a very long time.

As Mike has been trying to explain to you, magnification is not the be all and end all of a telescope. I can tell you from lots of experience that you will hardly ever get to use your scope (no matter what it is) at the highest magnifications that it can render an object at. For the most part, the sky just won't allow you to because of clouds or wind or bright lights from the city. Then you have the Moon and all that skyglow. You have to be very lucky to get the right conditions to be able to use the very high magnifications on your scope. Most of the time, you'll be using the low and medium power eyepieces, and in any case these eyepieces give you the better views of what you're looking at, anyway.

So, forget about the magnification, and concentrate on how big a mirror or lens your scope has, and what sort of mount you want for it. As I suggested, a good start off point is an 8" scope. It's small enough to be easily handled, yet has the capacity to show you a lot of objects that smaller scopes can't reach. You'll get to see far more in an 8" than you could possibly believe and it will be some time before you want anything bigger.

Once you've bought your scope, then you have to decide upon eyepieces, and dare I say, filters for viewing through the scope. When you come to that point, just post a thread in the beginners forum and we will advise you on what you will need.

[Oliver Gigacz]

So then what is the difference between the 114x900 and 130x900?

[Benno85]

Hi mate,

The apertures are different for those two models. 114 equates to 114mm of aperture (or diameter of the main mirror), and 130mm works on the same principal. So for $199 at Andrews you get 130mm of aperture, which is a good starting point for beginners. But as mentioned, it comes with an equatorial mount which can be quite daunting for the newcomer, and you'll soon find yourself either frustrated and wanting to give up, or wishing you had saved a wee-bit longer to grab an 8" dobsonian.

Speaking from experience of my recently-acquired Skywatcher 8", I can tell that the things you will see through it and a 20mm eyepiece are staggering. :thumbsup:

Keep asking questions, you're in good hands here!!

Cheers,

Benno.

[Oliver Gigacz]

Hi
So for an absoloute beginner which would be easier to use the 114 or thr 130?

[Benno85]

My first ever setup was the 114 (not Skywatcher brand) on an equatorial mount. I can honestly say that it very nearly killed my interest in all of this, mainly beacuse of the inadequate aluminium mount that it came on. If I could start fresh again I would go down the road of a dobsonian mounted scope for ease of setup and use.

With an EQ mount you got multiple parts which usually means multiple trips from the house/shed/garage. Then you've got to balance the scope reasonably well on the mount. And get polar aligned. Then once you've finally got a target in the eyepiece, if there is something of a breeze around you'll find that the mount will rock more than Metallica concert.

Best off going for a Dobsonian first up. Check out the Guan Sheng section on the Andrews site, a 200mm Dob can be had for $499 (this includes a 2" Crayford focuser which is very smooth, a cooling fan and 5 eyepieces). Best ring through and speak with Lee or Andrew first to confirm stock and inclusions:).

[Oliver Gigacz]

Hi
Great thank you all. My younger brother does not really care for the qauilty buy just wants to see them big. I know this sounds weird. I think I will get him the 114x900 as it looks a bit more simple then the 130x900 and there is only a small difference between them.

[Mike21]

Neither of those scope will give BIG!

[Mike21]

Check this thread. It appears to be pending again!

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=48483

[Jules76]

I don't think your quite grasping everything as both the 114x900 and 130x900 come on the EXACT same mount. The only difference between the two is the 130mm has a larger aperture (bigger opening) which is what you want. So if anything you should be going with the 130x900.

But in saying that, go for a Dob. I had, well still do have except I tossed the mount, the SW450. It's a good starting scope, but the mount really lets it down for all the reasons mentioned already. A Dob is a much better way to go. :thumbsup: