Just starting out. Think I'll go with a Dobsonian.

[shane.mcneil]

Hi

I have just joined IIS and want to commend everyone for the info and help here. I have found out so much by just reading past posts. I am getting back into stargazing after years doing other things. I think a 10" Dobsonian will suit me (planets and moon mainly, no photography).

My question is whether or not tracking is worth it? I have little ones that I want to get involved and I want to make it easy for them to start out. Andrews has the Skywatcher 10" Dobsonian with tracking for $1599. Could I buy that and attach an Argo Novis for push to function?

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

Or should I just start out with a basic 10" Dobsonian like a GSO and use the money I save for extras? Again, Andrew's have a Super Deluxe package available.

Hope that makes sense. Many thanks.

[Robh]

Shane,

This is entirely up to you. I have a DOB, don't do photography, and don't need tracking or an Argo Navis (which might cost another $1000). I enjoy reading maps and finding my objects by star-hopping. Other people like the convenience of an Argo Navis as it allows them to go through many targets in one session. Personally, I like to linger on an object and just enjoy the find. There is some argument for using an Argo Navis in suburbia where the skyglow makes the search for objects a lot more difficult.

Regards, Rob

[shane.mcneil]

Thanks Rob. I appreciate the advice.

[mental4astro]

G'day shane, :welcome:to IIS, mate.

I've got two dobs, one being 10", the other 17.5".

I've been tossing up the idea of an Argo Navis system for the reasons Rob points out for urban viewing. Since then I found that a 50mm finder, preferrably straight through correct image, and a pair of 50mm binoculars serve to overcome star hoping problems in city viewing, :thumbsup:. I too enjoy the thrill of the hunt,;):whistle:. Then spend the cash on good EPs

The convinience of DSC is not to be sneezed at. They have their place. Just have a good think. Argo is a very, very good gizmo.

With respects to a motorised scope, most viewing by novices is done at low power, meaning usually little nudging is needed per person. Some people enjoy the challenge that co-ordinating the nudge brings. Even higher power viewing can be done by placing the object just out of the field of view & allowing it to drift into view.

[Robh]

I also use an 8x50 correct image right angle finder, a great tool for star-hopping. The red-dot finder that came with the scope was a joke. Good point about saving money for quality eyepieces.

Regards, Rob

[mental4astro]

If you're keen & can arrange to pick up a scope from the blue mountains, Alan in Linden has a 12" dob up for grabs for $600:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=48207

Could be a goer, & bigger than a 10".

[barx1963]

Certainly agree with comment re eyepieces. Would invest in them well before going Argo or buy a non motorised dob and spend the extra cash on a good Nagler or Ethos. Also I sould buy aperture first, go 12" or as big as you can afford first then save for an Argo.
Skies should be nice in Taree

[Robh]

Yes. It's a good scope. I've actually looked through it on the odd occasion and I can vouch for Alan's integrity.

Rob

[shane.mcneil]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm getting greedy already. I hope the credit card will cope. I've read that 12" Dobsonians are not really for beginners but no one really said why. Any ideas?

Also some say that they are just that much harder to transport. As I will usually have all of my family with me, I'm not sure if I will fit everything (and everyone) in. That's why I was interested in the collapsible SkyWatcher.

[Robh]

I went from a 60mm refractor to the 12inch DOB. It was a damn sight easier to find things! Reports on the Skywatchers here on IIS seem to be fairly positive.
Read Duncan's review ...
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/41-531-0-0-1-0.html

Regards, Rob

[mental4astro]

If transport is a problem with a solid tube, here is a solution if you are confident with tools, even a little:

You can purchase the 12" solid, & convert it to a truss scope. It is not overly complicated, & plenty of help is at hand. My first dob is one I made myself, a 10". Bought the optics, built everything else. Just did my homework before I got to it. I'll be doing this with my 17.5", it is just too big & heavy as a solid tube. The satisfaction is incalculable.

It also can be done over a period of time (kids needs), & you can use just about all the components from the solid scope, like optics, finder, mirror cell (most difficult item to get right), spider, teflon bearings, etc.

[barx1963]

Transport is definitely the issue with 12 solid tube. Wouldn't do it if you have a bad back. A trolley to assist with moving it outside is a must. Also if you are going to a dark site or away from home your car must be capable of fitting it. I have an Astra wagon and the tube goes in easily, its the mount that just sqeezes in. If I had a sedan or hatch, I would struggle.
The main thing with those advising against a 12" for beginners is the old adage "the best scope is the one you use the most" and if it becomes too much hassle to carry it outside, it won't get used. Another issue with 12" is that they do need regular collimation. Investing in knobs and collimation tools adds to the expense and there is a learning curve to get over.
That said, I am very happy with my 12" GSO dob.

[astro744]

The value of tracking should not be underestimated since it makes viewing all objects much easier and more detail can be picked up. When viewing an object drifting across the field (even in an ultrawide eyepiece) your brain is constantly locking in on the object and you dont end up seeing the detail in say a planet or picking up that faint galaxy as easily as when the image is stationary.

In fact one could argue that a tracked smaller 'scope can help you see more than a non tracked larger 'scope.

Tracking also helps with group viewing since you don't have to constantly re-centre the object. Of course it does depend on how low a power you are using and what objects you are looking at but moderate power upward benefit from tracking.

The Argo can be added at anytime provided the encoder brackets are available and if they're not now they soon will be.

What ever you choose, enjoy!

[norm]

Hi Shane,

I'll go the opposite approach and say get the aAgonavis and encoders.
I'm pretty sure the encoder kit is now available for the Skywatcher collapsible dob.

For things like the moon, Jupiter, Saturn, you probably wont use the Argo to find these as their pretty easy to identify using something like Stellarium. But sooner or later, you'll want to observe/hunt down dso, globular clusters, maybe double stars and thats where the Argo comes to the foray.

Not sure what your patience is like or your preparedness to go into learning the traditional way, but it can take time and could lead to frustration. The Argo on the other hand takes you there (admittedly you need to push the scope to get to the objects) but the hard work is done for you, leaving time for you to enjoy the objects and understand/learn from a different perspective.

I know there are diehards out their who enjoy learning the traditional way and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Argo imho an invaluable resource. You could wait 6 months before getting the Argo, but when you do, you'll kick yourself and ask why you didn't I get that in the 1st couple of weeks !!!

As for eyepieces wait awhile and appreciate those, but definitely better to have a few high quality ones as opposed to several medicore ones - the difference is amazing and more important for faster scopes < F.5.

Good Luck.
Norm:thumbsup:

[shane.mcneil]

[QUOTE=norm;475667]Hi Shane,

I'll go the opposite approach and say get the aAgonavis and encoders.
I'm pretty sure the encoder kit is now available for the Skywatcher collapsible dob.

Thanks for that Norm. I've only read good about the Argo Navis. What do you think of the SkyWatcher that comes with tracking and then adding the Argo to it, when my wallet recovers? Then I would have a push-to that can track?

[shane.mcneil]

Tracking also helps with group viewing since you don't have to constantly re-centre the object. Of course it does depend on how low a power you are using and what objects you are looking at but moderate power upward benefit from tracking.

That's what I was thinking about. If it were just me I wouldn't bother with tracking at the moment. But I have a large family and a number of friends who I want to share the experience with and I thought tracking would assist that.

It's a lot extra money just for the convenience though, so I'll have to way it up. Thanks for your help.

[shane.mcneil]

mental4astro

You can purchase the 12" solid, & convert it to a truss scope. It is not overly complicated, & plenty of help is at hand. My first dob is one I made myself, a 10". Bought the optics, built everything else. Just did my homework before I got to it. I'll be doing this with my 17.5", it is just too big & heavy as a solid tube. The satisfaction is incalculable.

I'm not sure that I am that confident with tools to try that yet. But it is an option. I actually was looking at the Meade Lightbridges too. They seem a bit over priced though and some say that you don't save that much room on a 10"???

[ausastronomer]

Hi Shane,

You don't need to buy a scope and then start working on it to make it transportable. You want to buy it and use it. If you need to transport the scope my advice would be to buy a 10" Meade Lightbridge. These are very portable and easily fitted with Argo Navis if you want to spend the extra money on that wonderful product. The Meade Lightbridges are made by GSO and are excellent optically and mechanically for the price.

Cheers,
John B

[mental4astro]

Hello all,

there is a third option: get a solid scope, like Alan's, learn to use it, in the meantime figureout how to build a truss scope (you'll be surprised what you can do with limited tools & experience- look at the attached photo of my 10" which I've seen up scaled to a 12"), & save the pennies for the Argo, which if built even to how I've done my 10" the Argo Navis can be retro-fitted.

You can also do the whole SDM & fit up your scope like Norm's beautiful SDM026 14.5", :eyepop:. Portable, Argo, & built like the proverbial outhouse. This IS one dream scope:

http://www.sdmtelescopes.com.au/SDM026.html

The Lightbridge is a good scope, don't get me wrong. I just see an opportunity to set yourself up nicely.

Mental.

[shane.mcneil]

Thanks Mental

Wow I suddenly realise how much I don't know. Your scope looks great. I wouldn't even have thought about attempting that. How long did it take you?

I'm thinking that I should just start out simple, like a 10" GSO and see how I go. Once I have a better idea of what I want to do, I can go from there. I'm trying to get on to my local Astronomy Club to maybe look at some other scopes and see what it is like.

Thanks again for your comments. I appreciate advice.

[norm]

Hi Shane,

I can't comment on the Skywatcher with tracking as I haven't seen or played with one. I'm not really sure how important tracking is and whether its a must have option. Again, I'm biased and I'd go with an Argo anytime of the week.

As John says a Lightbridge is a pretty good option too and you can't go wrong with it either. I'll go as far as to getting a 12" LB deluxe if the budget stretches and if it will fit the in the family car.
Couple of things you'll probably want to do with it is: get a light shroud, replace the springs, primary and secondary screws (check out Bob's knob, but you can probably find cheaper alternatives at a fraction of the price for those - just search the forum on the details).

I think its a great idea to sus out some scopes at a club with and without an Argo and then you will appreciate the difference.

Optically wise, I don't think you will see any difference between Meade and Skywatcher mirrors as they probably come out the same factory in China.

Also, don't forget to budget for some must have accessories like collimation tool, star map etc.

Cheers, Norm

[shane.mcneil]

Well after much umming and ahhing I've decided to start out with a 10" solid tube. I measured up the car and think it will fit. Depending on how much I get into things, I might go to a larger truss telescope later. Or maybe build my own.

So just one last question (I hope) if you don't mind. I'm looking at either the 10" GSO Super Deluxe $700 from here (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm).

Or the 10" SkyWatcher $800 from here (http://118.127.11.230/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=36&osCsid=64e7faaed386a1447aff9b124fc5 66dd).

Would you recommend one over the other?

Many thanks once again. I have considered everyone's comments and you have help me decide what I want (much to my wife relief).

[barx1963]

I have dealt with both companies in the last few months and have found service at both to be excellent. Can't comment on after sales and warranty issues as I haven't had any.

[richardda1st]

My 10" Lightbridge fits nicely in the back cargo section of my tiny Mitsubishi colt. Maybe even the 12".
Plenty of room in the smallish Suzuki Grand Vitara also, but with luggage pod on roof. When my wife and 2 grown kids come along, say on a camping trip.

I think the Lightbridge compacts a lot smaller then the others, such as the Skywatcher. But I'm sure they are all on par in other areas.

Shane, they are heavier than I thought. Have you tried moving them about?
Still happy with mine (3 months now). Problem with secondary mirror. Meade said they will send a replacement, no hassle as yet.

Very hard to find a 10" at the moment.

Good luck.

[mental4astro]

Hi Shane,

It's being an interesting thread you have started. Lots of very good views.

My 10" I built with the help of a friend over about four months, working on it every saturday about three hours at a time (including set-up & clean up at end of day). I made every component including the mirror cell, spider & diagonal using a simple telescope making reference book as a guide. I had purchased the optics & focuser.

As you can see, it is a very compact unit with the focuser board fitting into the mirror box for storage the whole thing being even smaller than a two draw filing cabinet. It holds its collimation very well & is silky smooth to use. It lives unobstrusively in a woredrobe.

Knowing what I do today about materials, the only changes I would make to its design is use a little thinner ply & alter the design of the diagonal to make it smaller & cut more holes in the rocker box. This would just be to reduce weight.

Its design also allows the addition of DSC's if wanted.

Mental

[shane.mcneil]

Well just thought that I would let everyone know how the story ended, just in case someone reads this at a later date. I concluded there was no right or wrong desicion as such, and just went for what I thought would suit me. I couldn't get anywhere to see a telescope in action so I just had to hope. I ended up buying the GSO 10" Dob, got it two days ago. The quality of construction is better than I expected. The main problem I've noticed so far is that the pivot point connection to the base is a bit sloppy and will need packing.

I like the right angle finder (I think) and the 10:1 focuser is great. The fan is good too. Now I just have to work out the collimating thing. I've read a lot and now understand the principle, so I am hopeful. The scope is bigger than I imagined. I'm glad I went for a 10" as a 12" for me would have been a bit to much to hassle to move (again what's right for you decides it but if your think 12" solid it's good to actually see one to get a sense of size).

I've seen Jupiter briefly. Clouds got in the way. But it was great. There was a black dot on the planet. I hope it was a moon shadow and not dust on the EP. Again not knowing what to expect, it was a little smaller than I hoped, but I haven't worked my way through all my eyepieces yet.

Many thanks once again to everyone who commented on this and all of the other threads I've read. I knew nothing at first and this site really helped. If anyone has any questions about the telescope or why I went for it, feel free to contact me.

Regards,

Shane

[mental4astro]

:thumbsup:

[GrahamL]

great stuff shane :thumbsup:.. I had a 10" for a couple of years

one of these working with your finder makes revisiting the same point in the sky very easy
http://www.backyard-astro.com/equipment/accessories/telrad/telrad.html

yes it was a moon ( havn't looked up which one yet) you saw two nights back, sounds like your collimation dosn't need messing with to much yet , my 10" rarely needed a tweak .

[garyp]

Hi Shane, I have just been reading this very interesting thread. I'm glad you made a decision you are happy with. I have got an 8" Skywatcher dob. It doesn't have any tracking etc... I have young kids who like to veiw from time to time. It has been no problem finding objects and keeping them in veiw. They don't spend much time anyway as they only like the big objects like the moon and planets so most of the time I am veiwing other objects on my own. Mine is no problem to transport but it won't be as heavy as yours. It's well said that the best scope you can get is one you will use often. I use mine as often as I can.

One advantage of the dob costwise is you spend your money on aperture and eyepeices to get a nice view before getting too technical.

I hope you get many years enjoyment out of your new scope.

Cheers

Gary:)