Showing sky to 4 & 5 yr olds

[mental4astro]

Hi all,

I've been 'commisioned' to bring a scope or two to show & tell a little about the sky at my daugther's preschool & my wife's school where she teaches, also the little'ies, :D.

My challenge is that I've never delt with such young people & I'm wondering if anyone might have ideas on how I can approach them with this topic. I'll also be asking the Missus, she is the expert with them, but the technicalities of Astronomy isn't her strong point, bless her soul.

At the moment, the timeing of these sessions will be during the morning or arvo, limiting viewings to the moon & sun. I'd only be doing eyepiece projection for the sun, & covering up the finder, and warn of looking at the sun by any means. Good idea or not, the sun?

Any astro reasources anyone may be able to suggest to illustrate the solar system & beyond? I've also been asked to give a little talk.

Mental.

[h0ughy]

The thing you need to know is that you always need a backup plan just in case it is cloudy or it rains. Currently the sun is spotless and unless you have a Ha solar scope then you cannot show them surface details or prominences around the limb of the sun.

Mornings are good about a week after full moon for using the scope, but they would be just as happy looking through the scope to some distant ground based object.

Print our the solar system - one page per item and get the kids to role play as them, positioning them as a solar system model to get an idea of distance – at that age they really don’t grasp it but it can be fun.

Have some colourful images to show – perhaps a magazine or coffee table book to show some images. Try asking them what they know about space and stuff. Don’t roll around laughing as some of the parents have the same idea……

Take control and don’t for one minute think they will be totally focused on your topic, as the bug crawling of the bird or a boogie they are picking at the moment seems better than what you can offer. Make it interesting and keep engaging them in the talk as they have the attention span of a gnat.

Make sure you tell them never to look directly at the sun.

Oh and make up some simple colouring in sheets – even a dot to dot or a cut and paste.

If you take your scope remember a step ladder for them to hold on to and get to the eyepiece.

LOL and ask who wants to be an astronaut…..

ok rambled on here enough

[gman]

I could try some of the following ideas:-

Keep it to the solar system. (Get some pictures of the planets, southern cross etc and ask who knows there names etc? - show the Southern Cross on the flag)
Get the teacher to stick the pictures on the wall so they can keep looking at them
Ask questions on things like how long it takes for light to get to earth, how long it takes to go to the moon, what is the sun and moon made of? (let them all answer and then tell them the correct answer, dumbed down.etc
Homework - Give them some written basic co-ordinates on seeing Jupiter or Venus etc at night etc so they can get there parents involved, (look for the brightest star in the east at a certain time)
Bring up the 40 year aniverary of man walking on the moon

[AdrianF]

Just had the same thing here but on a smaller scale. One of the ladies I work with has a son in year 1 and they are doing the Solar System and constellations. I gave him a BBC Sky at Night calendar for show and tell and printed out pictures, for show and tell, off the internet of constellations he can see from here the Southern Cross etc. He went out that night and identified the constellations and also Jupiter and 3 of its moons, he borrowed Poppies binoculars now he wants Mum to buy him a pair for his birthday and he wants Mum to wake him up at 5am to see Orion and Plaides. Mum says "No way".
Another budding Astronomer.

Adrian

[renormalised]

As the other have said...keep it simple and interesting.

If you're lucky (or unlucky as the case may be!!), you might get one, or at the off chance two, who maybe intelligent enough to understand you straight out and will come up to you and ask more pertinent questions. Don't be afraid to answer them and don't hold back with your answers. It's kids like these, who are gifted and extremely bright, who need all the encouragement you can give them. The school system tends to try and dumb them down at an early age and rarely caters to their needs as they grow older. We end up loosing them at an early age and they usually just give up on school or they just plod through and do what they need to get done in order to pass their HSC's. The highest scorers in the HSC are not necessarily the brightest or even the most gifted academically. They're just good at acquiring and accessing information and have good memories.

[jjjnettie]

Pity you can't make it a twilight viewing.
They could see Saturn, the moon, Alpha Centauri and that big fuzzy ball of stars Omega Centauri.
These were all on the menu when my sister took her Kindy Kids to the Mapleton Observatory the other week.
She had a list of questions from the children that were answered before moving on to the scopes.
It was a pleasure to watch Paul (1Ponders) teach. I think that if you want some expert tips, give him a PM.
But the highlight for me was watching their faces light up as they had their first look through a telescope.

[mental4astro]

One school will definately be during the day. The other may be a chance of a later session. If it goes well, chance it may grow to something bigger.

Jjj, I will PM Paul.

Thanks for the suggestions. Many very good ideas. Please keep them coming, these have fired up my imagination.

I'm quite excited about this challenge.

Mental.

P.S. congrats on the 6000 post milestone jjj.

[Lumen Miner]

Great post!! I work at Bunnings and offered to bring my scope for "Dad and kids night" prior to fathers day.

They said that was great, i'll get paid for the time there too. He he he, getting paid to watch the stars.... Brilliant!!

It's not the money though, I would do it regardless, apparently I need to be on the clock for insurance purposes, so no complaints here.

They told me afterwards that there is a group of 25 scouts coming also... better make sure I know what I'm talking about.... I'll make some notes to follow...


I am very interested to see how you go, good luck...

About the sun, the only thing I can say is that if you tell them not to look at the sun, they will do the opposite. Maybe explain how it can hurt your eyes, so they know your serious.

[batema]

I'm a teacher and all of the above are great suggestions. If you do manage to get a twilight viewing session take along some pirate eyepatches as kids at this age may have problems closing one eye. I bought mine from the local chemist for a prep evening. Another suggestion about distances I had when I posted a similar question was to use a roll of toilet paper and roll it out to show the distances of the solar system. I havenot tried this one but the pirate eyepieces work a treat.

Have fun with this.

Mark

[seanliddelow]

Dont explain binary stars! Thats to complicated to any newcomers to astronomy. There are astronomy websites for kids. You should just show them the planets and the moon. Every newby loves the moon:thumbsup:

[seanliddelow]

Do you have a solar telescope you can get a hold of?

[mental4astro]

I don't have a solar scope either myself or to get my paws on. I'd be only doing projection viewing. I'll be using a crappie Hygenian EP I have, air spaced EPs so no glue to foul. Probably the only good use for these EPs. I'd be using my C5, stopped down a little to reduce heat.

I take your point about binary systems. Alpha centuri does get a few 'ooh-aahh's' though, but I wouldn't get technical. Binary's spin me out enough.

I dig the idea of pirate eyepatches.

I've started compiling a trial list of objects:

* Southern cross, show it first so everyone at once gets something to see the can identify from our flag.

* Moon

* Jupiter & its moons

* Omega Centuri, a 'moon' of the Milky Way

* Eta Carina, where stars are being born

* Scorpius, probably the easiest constellation to identify as the object it describes

* M7 or the Jewel Box, M7 being more spectacular but the Jewel Box is in the southern cross.

May have to trim it down.

[bbgg]

I have done a few science type days for pre school/primary kids. You have to be well organized and remember that their attention span per topic is all of 5 mins so you have to keep mixing it up. You might get 1/2 hr or so having them sit there looking at pics and the like but after that they will want to do something else. Kids at that age love hands on stuff. Have them build something or draw something to take home. Not sure of the resources at the pre school. Pin hole camera might be ok and they can pretend it is a telescope. Not hard to build but will need adults.

I would not let any young primary/pre school age child view the sun in any form. It is just too dangerous and I suspect the school will not allow it. Maybe kids in 4 and above maybe ok but the young ones never. I did a space day at my sons school some 2 years back to 3/4's and the school would not let me do it. Instead I download a video of the sun and showed them that. I think we also made sun dials in that session.

Showing kids things through a telescope is fantastic but it does take a while. This year I was on the schools 3/4 camp with my son and took my 8" dob along as well. It took almost 2 hrs to show 83 kids saturn. Most of the kids had not looked through an eye piece before so it took them a while to figure it out (with my help). You do not need a patch. Tell them to keep both eyes open and just put one hand over their eye. It was well worth the effort though. Most kids will be happy to see the moon or Jupiter, Saturn. Better to show them something that they know. It has a greater impact.

Might even be worth using a program like stellarium if the school has interactive white boards.

I always have great fun doing these type of things so good luck!

[stephenb]

I think your idea of solar projection is a better demonstration than a solar telescope.

You spend half your time lecturing the young 'uns about not looking at the Sun through a telescope, then you pull out the PST and you spend another 15 minutes explaining the contradiction. Best if you explain that the projection method is the safest.

[mental4astro]

Hi all,

This morning I did the morning viewing at my daughter's preschool. I learnt alot from this group of kids & about the choice of object to show.

The age of the kids ranged from early 3's to about 5. It was great to see how different their reactions & capabilities were. This was not a structured 'lesson', more just showing the moon & talk as the need required. No solar viewing at the teacher's request.

First thing I asked was if they were able to close one eye. If they struggled I suggested that the close one with the help of one hand while they held onto the little step ladder railing with the other (was good as very few were then able to touch the scope).

Getting some to look in the right direction into the EP was a good experience as I was able to see that even though I may know how to look into an EP, I noticed that the actual viewable 'angle' is quite narrow. Told each in turn then to 'look into the telescope through the glass'. Worked pretty well.

A thin cresent moon viewed in the morning is not a great target. No contrast & nearly washed out with the sky glow & most people expecting an image like that in a book. Next time if daytime viewing I will first show something more tangible, like a distant church steeple, etc, to show what a telescope does, then view the moon.

It was really good though. It was great for me to learn how to speak to littleies about using scopes, really simplifing the technique as much as I could. Should help with older 'customers' too as I can now see it is a learnt skill. Field of view presenting the greatest challenge.

Mental

[hulloleeds]

You're a brave man. Very brave, considering there was a great risk of the view being underwhelming.

[M54]

That's fantastic Mental.
And you know, amongst the throngs of the possibly underwhelmed are sometimes one or two kids who's lives are changed by the experience.

Awesome job.:thumbsup:

[hulloleeds]

I saw a bit of "the sidewalk astronomer" this morning. I was surprised by how many people had their minds blown, looking at the moon. Surprised, in that it isn't something that is largely encouraged in any curriculum, or in society in general, yet it doesn't fail to incite wonder. I think it'd make a marked difference in child development in many cases. There isn't a lot of "magic" for young people once they've outgrown the standard sources and it'd be nice (and perhaps good for society) to reassure kids and teenagers that there are truly amazing things out there within reach.

[mental4astro]

Thanks for your support.

This second viewing will be on the early evening of this coming wednesday. The teacher has titled it, of all things- 'PIZZA & PLANET NIGHT', :scared::scared::scared::scared:.

It is a novel idea, & only done with strict conditions from me, like insisting on washing hands before coming down to view.

The night is being limited to one parent & their child, sibblings & the other parent being discouraged to control numbers.

I did a reckie last night as the school ground to be used is on the western side of a ridge. Thankfully for 6pm, Jupiter appears just over this ridge. The plan is to show the kids the Southern Cross & Pointers, mentioning Alpha Centuri, & Scorpio & pointing out the general direction of the centre of the Milky Way near its 'tail'. I will have two or three scopes available, along with a helper, to show the Moon, Jupiter & either Omega centuri, the Jewel Box or some other bright cluster, and probably something on the city skyline, like Centre Point Tower.

The kids are going through some work on 'space' in their classes, so any talking from me will be general & simple while at the scopes.

My wife suggested to use the space shuttle in my talk in this way:

At the speed the shuttle orbits the Earth, it will take it ...(this long)... to reach the Moon, & ...(this long)... to reach Jupiter, since both will be visible & most tangible. I just need to fill in the gaps.

Lets see how we go.

[Lumen Miner]

Well said my friend!! :thumbsup:


Mental, Oh, you have encouraged, qwelled my nerves a tad. It is good to hear, of your success. Next week I will have my attempt. I am spending the week, printing A4 images and laminating them so the kiddies can touch.
I am think of setting the canon up to do star trails. Will add some good effect, the shutter noise etc... ;) I can show picture now, of my attempts and what the camera is doing...(capturing 30 sec snaps)...


Oh I am excited... Sorry, I didn't read your last post, before posting this... Will you continue to do this for a number of times. Or is it just a once/twice off? You sound talented at it, from your responces.

I just have my fingers crossed there is clear skies.

[seanliddelow]

Hey, why isnt there pizza and star nights........why???????????:mad2:

[mental4astro]

Say, Lumen, the idea of taking some pics is a good one. My wife suggested the like, particularly if something through a scope of the moon or Jupiter. I found an article on using a wedcam as a makeshift planetary camera in the 'Projects & Articles' section here. The kids here are very comfortable with computers, so this astro thing will have more tangible relevance to them. Also makes for a momento of the occasion. :thumbsup:

The ISS has also being mentioned if it would be visible that night from Sydney. Can anyone point me to a site where I might be able to get this info?

This time of the evening is also good for spotting satellites, though this would be a difficult task for this age group & the poor skies of Sydney not helping.

[seanliddelow]

There is a site called heavens above where you put in your location and it tells you all the sattelites above your position down to 4 mag. If you could get the lat and long of your observing night it will tell you when the iss will be out.:thumbsup:

[Lumen Miner]

What I like doing, which I might try out, is running a webcam / digicam to either a laptop / tv screen.

I bought a $80 closed circuit security camera / tv set. Rigged the camera via a similar way to the webcam method, which allows me to present what the scope is viewing on the screen. Saves everyone waiting in turn to view... There's nothing like viewing through the eye piece of the scope though first hand.

I generally run the digicam to a 54cm rear projection tv. Really good quailty for a cheap digi cybershot.


You have a dslr yeah? If so you should let the kids, hit the shutter cable button and take "their" shot.
Let all the kids take a shot....get a class list and mark atleast the number of the first and last shot...

Take the camera download the pictures onto one of their computers... Get the kids / teacher to work out which shot goes with which kid....(Should be easy, with the list you made)

Chances are, at least three shots should have "something" in them.... a piece of junk burning up, satellite, planes etc... Get the kids to search their photo to see if "they" caught something...

I think that could be a REALLY fun activity, for the kids to do when you are not there. It would be like a big astro hide 'n' seek.... Tell them they have to look really close to find things.... Even when they don't, the fun will be in searching.....

When everyone is done, you will need to explain that the "lucky" winner/s were only made possible, by the other frames.... you would very rarely capture junk etc in one shot. But with lots you will...

See my thread on Star trails from Sydney. Check out how much junk I see from sydney...

I'm starting to realise I have above average viewing from Thompson's corner. I see visible junk burn up every night i'm out. Not to mention when I am capturing wide-field frames. :thumbsup:

[Esseth]

One of the coolest and most memorable things i did as a little one that i still remember, is comparing the sizes of the planets and other things out there on a smaller scale. eg earth golf ball, different planet tennis ball and basket ball, compared to the oval and the whole of earth.

Man primary school was awesome :D

[mental4astro]

Hi everyone,

The eve of the 'Big One', and a couple of things have happened.

Wavytone has donated a brilliant set of Edmond Scientific RKE eyepieces for this school's scope to replace the ratty ones it had, :thumbsup:. Thanks, mate. I had a play with these EPs on saturday, & now I want a set! These are by far the easiest EPs to view with I have ever used. Really good for novices using a scope!

I also made a dob mount also for the school's 4.5" scope. The eq. mount it had terrified everyone into not using it. Very sad. It now works a treat, is not as intimidating & at a much more comfortable height for kids to use.

Very easy to make, & very inexpensive. I think it is a good option for any 4.5" scope on an equatorial mount that does not get used. It does not damage the scope & can be remounted onto its eq. mount if needed.

[mental4astro]

Last night was the big sky show at my wife's school. Fifty students, 4 & 5 yr olds, plus one parent. No sibblings & only one parent on the whole allowed, for numbers. Roughly 100 all up. Alot of people.

The preschool's head teacher did a great job organising the night, dealing with parents & students & enthusing them all. She also had an 'alien' come & visit which the kids loved.

The scopes there where the school's refurbished 114mm dob, my Celestron C5 & my Odyssey II, called the 'Cannon' by the crowd.

After pizza, & washing hands, a little talk to point out what we were to see & point out the Southern Cross & pointers & Scorpio. Wouldn't you know it, a satellite crossed through Scorpio as I was pointing it out! Wowed everyone. Briefly mentioned Alpha Centuri & the direction of the centre of the Milky Way.

A BIG, BIG THANK YOU to Peter Hickey for loaning his laser pointer, :thanks::thanks::thanks:. It proved invaluble in pointing out these features, :thumbsup:.

The 114 was trained on the Moon. Always a crowd pleaser. It was handled by my wife who was thrown into the deep end in using a scope & finder.

The C5 had Jupiter. Could only use it at 125X because seeing was poor, & the image still shimmered. Enough to make out some banding & the Galilean moons. I had her on its eq. mount & tracking. This little scope was the unsung hero. Not once did I have to recentre the image & the clamps were engaged firmly enough to handle the kids grabbing the EP.

And the Odyssey had the Jewel Box. May not be the brightest cluster, but it is in the Southren Cross, & the kids were asked to spot the 'Ruby' in it, surrounded by diamonds. At this age some kids still needed a little boost up by mum or dad to reach the EP even though we were using a ladder. No child was allowed to view through the Odyssey without a parent up the step ladder behind them.

I am really glad I did fit a second finder towards the tail end of the Odyssey as it allowed quick repointing if the scope was nudged without needing to go up the ladder. I definately will be using this feature on the remodelling of the Odyssey. This is something I would recommend to anyone who is showing the sky with a big scope to crowds. If your scope does not have a tracking device, including DSC, or if its finder is not accessible from the opposite side from where it is located, this second finder works a charm. Saves an aweful lot of time & inconvinience to everyone. The finder I was using here was a modest 6X30. Enough to spot the Jewel Box.

Oh, & the ISS made a biref appearance too.

The main thing I would suggest to anyone showing young people things through a telescope is the technique of using one hand to cover one eye, & the other hand to hold onto the step ladder, or mum or dad. Not garanteed to stop them grabbing the EP, but really helps.

I thank everyone who has contributed ideas in this posting. The resulting show was good for all ages, young & old. Keeping it simple is the key. The sky is a big place & there is alot to take in in an unfamiliar enviroment for novices. The time at the three scopes was about an 1.5hrs. Not much time it would seem, but with so many little childern at that time of night, when the things to see were seen, they went home. It was 8:45 pm when the last few guests left. And the last couple of people were treated to Alpha Centuri & a cranked up view of the Moon through the Odyssey.

A really top night & experience, :thumbsup:.

[batema]

Hi Alex,

I also did a viewing evening on the Tuesday just past to Prep kids and their year 7 buddies. All up we had around 80 including parents. We had 40 at a time while the other 40 did a bush walk for about 45 min. spoke initially about the Australian flag and the sinificance of the union jack. southern cross (lasered while talking about this as well as the 7 pointed star with each point representing a state of australia and the 7th poimnt representing both NT and ACT. I then talked about a bit of Aboriginal Astronomy and related some stories from the internet about the emu, the sun and the moon in relation to their culture. Great night, just some thoughts for your next evening.

Mark

[Lumen Miner]

Great to hear everything went well!!
Still loving this thread, wealth of information for budding Astro presenters. :)

[rmcpb]

Mental,

Great thread. It gave me the push to put on a night for the local Joey Scouts (5&6yr olds). Two scopes set up. My old 8" on the moon and a 10" on Jupiter. The comments/exclamations from the kids were really worth the effort not to mention the reactions from the parents. A solar system colouring book downloaded from the web completed the night. Fantastic.

Cheers