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View Full Version here: : BIG night of Observing - Pushing it to the limit! 25-26/7/09


pgc hunter
26-07-2009, 08:59 PM
After a cold and cloudy Melbourne Saturday, I was stunned out of my jocks to see that all the Melbourne cloud was evaporating before my eyes as dusk fell.

Yes, it was actually happening, the first clear night in 150,000 years. Better take advantage of it! So all the gear was out the door faster than you can say "zOMG clear skiez in Melbs!!1!"

The night was windy, very windy. But that also meant there was no chance of dew. And seeing was actually quite decent, not perfect but certainly better than anything I've had in the last year (translation: last 5 sessions). I was using my 12" F/4.6 dob for this session.

Equipment: 12" F/4.6 dob
Time: 10:00pm-3:15am
Seeing: 5-6/10
Transparency: 3/5

M57
Kicked off the night with a look at the Ring Nebula. I was surprised by how well it showed, despite it's very low elevation in the murk hugging the northern horizon. I've never actually seen the Ring in the 12", and I was not dissapointed. At 176x, its not-quite-perfect donut shape was obvious, and the northern/southern sides of the ring were distinctly brighter than the ends. The OIII filter rendered the ring to be more uniformly bright, that is the brightness difference between the long axis and the ends was not as obvious. The interior was clearly brighter than the background sky.

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Although I had planned to observe some PNe's, I was distracted by the cool stuff in Sagittarius. I never actually made an attempt to properly observe all the cool stuff there with the 12", so now was time.

M20 Trifid Nebula
At 83x, The dark lanes in the "pink" portion were visible, and easy to detect with averted vision. The "blue" part of the neb was fainter, but appeared to be unevenly bright with a darkening towards the centre, which is marked by a bright orange star. I then added the UHC filter, which greatly accentuated the "pink" part of the nebula, with the dust lanes now easily visible. The southernmost lobe is brighter than the rest of the structure. The "blue" bit remained virtually unchanged.

M8 Lagoon Nebula
At 83x with a UHC filter, the Lagoon was awesome!!! Bloody stunning! The cloud took up virtually 3/4 of the field, with the faint outer regions seen in photos clearly visible. Dark rifts break up the nebula into 4 distinct sections, with the two bright sections familiar to observers accompanied by a fainter elongated East-west filament to the north and even fainter haze to the west of the main complex.

M17 Swan Nebula
Again using the 83x EP with UHC filter.... absolutely fantastic. Very bright, and the distinct shape was as obvious as it is on long exposure photos. A fainter filament looping out from the swan's tail and around below the body was clearly visible, as was a bright knot just above the curve in the neck. Increasing power to 176x with the UHC revealed a superbly detailed body, which appears to be superimposed on a fainter background haze which follows the countours of the brighter nebulosity. Infact, the detail in the nebulosity was so complex that it would be a challenge to sketch. Almost a 3D experience. A fainter pool of nebulosity was visible to the north of the main body and adjoining it. In addition, two detached small faint knots of nebulosity were obvious along the extended centreline of the neck.

M16 Eagle Nebula
Faint at 176x without a filter, but the UHC helped alot. With the UHC in place, the nebulosity resembled a swept airplane wing viewed from above or below, oriented NE-SW. An L-shaped dark region was visible adjecent the SE edge of the associated open cluster, with a narrow finger oriented NW/SE pointing towards the centre of the cluster visible with averted vision.

NGC 6772
PNe in Aquila. Quite difficult to detect at 216x without a filter, but the addition of the OIII helped considerably. A large, rather faint oval or oblong shaped ring was visible, with the interior noticably brighter than the background sky.

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At this point it was near midnight, and decided to take a look at Jupiter. Seeing was actually decent, but that being said, it was not perfect. With it still toward the east, the scope was broadside to the wind so was being heavily buffeted. At 176x, to my surprise, I could clearly see the Impact scar, neatly in mid-transit! It appeared as a tiny greyish smudge, visibly elongated E-W.

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Now, with the eye-candy picked off, it was time to hunt some galaxy clusters....but not before answering the call of nature. Upon entering the crapper facility, I almost made the fatal error of turning on the light :scared: (well, it's been an integral part of every potty excursion for the entire duraction of my life thus far...). After almost flushing my hard-earned night vision down the toilet, it was time for some hot chocolate and choc chip cookies. Ahhhh, a clear night, great DSO observing with some hot choc and cookies....can life get any better? That's right, it can't :D:D
Re-energised and relieved, I was set for some faint galaxies *yay*.

Abell S 805
A cluster of galaxies in Pavo. The group is easily located by dint of 4 mag 10-11 stars arranged on the western side of the GX cluster in a distorted trapezoid with the long axis oriented NW/SE. A 5th mag 12 star creates a triangle wit the two southernmost stars.

At 283x, the brightest galaxy, IC 4765, was relatively easy to see, as a small, slightly elongted (E-W) blob of light.

Just to the south of IC4765, and adjacent to the north of the star TYC 9073-467-1, is the small high SB elliptical PGC 62408. This GX was actually fairly easy to spot, owing to it's high SB, and was actually the second brightest of all cluster members observed. Also visible on the northern edge of PGC 62408 was the MAG 15.9 star USNAO2-0225-29565747!!!

To the SE of IC4765 is the elliptical GX PGC 62393. This galaxy is located on the northern edge of a small quadralateral of mag 12-14 stars. This GX was extremely faint, at the absolute limit of vision.

Located roughly midway between IC4765 and the mag 11 star TYC9703-1126-1 to the east is PGC 62391. Another very difficult object, virtually at the limit of detection, although it was slightly easier to spot than PGC62393.

To the northwest of IC4765 is the edge on spiral IC 4766. This GX was also extremely faint, but it's NW/SE elongation was visible in momentary glimpses. I'd rate it as difficult as the above PGC members despite its larger size, owing to it's low surface brightness.

The 4th confirmed hit was another edge on spiral, IC 4767, located SSE of IC 4765 on the outer SSE of the cluster. This galaxy appears to be the second-largest of the group on DSS images, but has an extremely low SB. It was incredibly difficult to spot, and when I did manage to see it, it was only in momentary glimpses. After several minutes of intent observation, it's NE/SW elongation was glimpsed. I'd rate this GX as the most difficult of the lot. To find it, I used an isoceles triangle of mag 14-15 stars for reference with the point aiming NE, with the galaxy just off southeast edge and in the same orientation.

About 2 high-power eyepiece fields north/northeast of this complex is a chain of 6 very faint galaxies, dominated by the spiral IC 4769. This GX was not particularly difficult, owing to its relatively high SB core. It was easy to find by using two mag 15+ stars (and a third 14.3 mag star) framing its southern end. The other 5 galaxies are extremely small, faint and escaped my grasp.

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Abell S 912
Galaxy cluster in Microscopium. Initially I used a mag of 283x, and after much searching, finally found the main cluster member, the large elliptical NGC 7012. The galaxy is accompanied by a mag 12.1 star on its SSW edge, which provided a good waypoint. 7012 was relatively bright, and I do mean relatively! Simply appeared as a small hazy blob, with perhaps a slight E-W elongation visible.

Only one other cluster member was seen with certainty, and that is PGC 66118, located just to the SE of 7012. This GX appeared almost as bright as 7012, thanks to its compact high SB profile.

DSS images show 2 very small galaxies located in the small gap between 7012 and pgc66118, so I attempted to hunt these down. Increasing power to 353x, and upon careful scrutiny of the field, to my surprise I managed to catch glimpses of the tiny galaxy located in this gap. (Don't know what the catalogue number is). I've attached an image of this cluster with the GX in question arrowed.

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To finish off the session I had one last look at Jupiter. I was surprised by how sharp it was, at 272x I could see festoons and swirls in the NEB and SEB, including a nice big rift in the NEB. The main belts were wonderfully detailed, infact haven't seen the planet so sharp and well resolved before! What a nice way to end a great session :D

erick
27-07-2009, 10:18 AM
Good things come to those who wait? Great report, pgch...(edit ;) ) Congrats on the great session. :)

Rob_K
27-07-2009, 11:41 AM
Nice report pgch (who's Sab? :shrug: :whistle: )!! :thumbsup: Glad you got some clear skies. Some good objects there, hope you get more opportunities!

Cheers -

Moon
27-07-2009, 12:09 PM
It was a great night. No moon. No dew. Almost zero clouds. Not too cold, just a bit of wind like you mentioned.

Due to our recent run of bad weather, I also made the most of it until some clouds rolled in from the west at around 2:30 / 3:00 followed by a nice sleep in Sunday morning :zzz2:

I observed and/or imaged many similar targets as above, such as M20, M8, M17, M16, plus NGC 55 for the first time.

Let's hope for some more weather like that some time soon.:thumbsup:

erick
27-07-2009, 12:12 PM
We had a great Saturday evening, as well, at Snake Valley. A balmy 3 deg, no moisture, no clouds until about 1:30am Sunday. Saw the Bug Nebula for the first time - sure stood out with OIII filter. NGC 4945 looking nice as always. And all the favourites (showing a first-timer who was stoked - but his toes froze the colour of Neptune that we looked at early evening!)

DavidU
27-07-2009, 07:29 PM
Great report pgc ! I'm glad you had some clear sky for a change, mind you 150,000 years of Melbourne cloud is a bit much ! If you recall it was clear sky's for 2 days back in '84 !:rofl:

Nice detailed report:thumbsup:

Lismore Bloke
30-07-2009, 08:13 AM
Excellent report PGC. You are seeing some seriously faint magnitudes. I wish I had your eyesight!!

Attached is a PDF of the area around 7012, made from the CNebulaX program. Hope it helps identify some of the faint fuzzies. Cheers, Paul.

pgc hunter
30-07-2009, 11:41 AM
Thanks! I'll bet my life that the next clear sky will be on a full moon 100 years after I'm dead, as per usual, Melbourne style. Living in a sub-arctic maritime climate which is identical to the Svalbards really sucks. :mad2:



It's a mystery to me....;) :whistle:

I have a saying....Every clear sky in Melbourne is 1000 years overdue.



I got those clouds at about 3:30am, so it was more or less a full night. Any sooner and I would've dropped a few million F-bombs big time. As far as no dew, no moon and relatively ok seeing, and most of the night cloud free in Melbourne goes, it was a 1 in Million.




Yeah my patience expired 149,999 years and 11 months ago. Great to be back at the eyepiece after all the time, but it's over all too soon.



Thanks! My eyesight is actually really crappy, infact i't almost as crap as Melbourne's Iceland-like weather. Things 2 metres away become blurry. THe faintest star I was is mag 15.9 (see report), it takes alot of patience and perseverance to see. It's surprising how much more one see after 5-10 minutes studying the field as opposed to a quick glance. i also had a dark hood over my head which probably helped.

Thanks for helping out, but it turns out that the galaxy in question is not actually plotted on that chart.

Cheers!

pgc hunter
30-07-2009, 01:27 PM
Well I've downloaded CartesDu Ciel and the mags of the galaxies are. Not sure if these are visual or photograhic mags, but here they are:

ABELL S805

IC 4765: Mag 12.34
PGC62408: Mag 13.78
PGC62393: Mag 15.12
PGC62391: Mag 14.02
IC 4766: Mag 14.98
IC 4767: Mag 14.36
IC 4769: Mag 14.10

ABELL S912

NGC 7012: Mag 13.80
PGC 66118: Mag 14.00

Still can't get that other small galaxy, doesn't seem to be in any of the databases.

toryglen-boy
30-07-2009, 04:14 PM
Great report, 'specially after reading about your frustration at the lack of opportunity, i will admit to have never seen such far and distant galaxies, i know to some people its the hunt, and the achievment of finding them "bareback" i would just rather find them with an Argo !!

so yeah, a good report, well written and with some wit !!

:thumbsup:

Lismore Bloke
30-07-2009, 04:24 PM
Thanks for those couple of helpful hints on observing the faint fuzzies. I am guilty of rushing through observations, not allowing eyesight to become sensitised, particularly when the objects being observed are faint. The old fashioned photographer's black hood is a good idea - keeping out stray light.

I'm surprised that no-one has written a short article on observing at the edge of visibility.

RobF
30-07-2009, 08:32 PM
I love reading a good observing report like this! And I can totally relate to the joy of an early morning pee, drink and munch on something naughty before "getting back out there"...:thumbsup:

Thanks for taking us all along for the ride too PGC!

pgc hunter
31-07-2009, 07:57 PM
If I could afford an Argo, trust me, I get one faster than the Melbourne clouds could roll in ;) For me, I actually do enjoy the 'starhop' to these objects, and it's an invaluable skill to have when all else fails! Finding NGC 7012 proved difficult due to a lack of referance stars, but after nearly half an hour of finding my bearings it turns out I was in the right place all along!


There's nothing like sitting under the stars with a nice hot chocolate! It would be even nicer if it was possible to enjoy hot choc under the stars more than once during each orbit around the galaxy, but alas I live in Melbourne....


I've negleted using the hood until now, but it really helps and is good for avoiding eyestrain as you don't have to keep the other eye slammed shut.

DavidU
31-07-2009, 08:00 PM
PGC, mate, it seems to be clearing up tonight

pgc hunter
31-07-2009, 08:06 PM
it's not mate, plus the moon is up until 4am. Satellite shows tonnes of Melbourne cloud streaming in from the west, as we are well into the "Belt of crap" (westerly airstream with cold fronts). What you are seeing is a sucker hole.

Once I find a mount for my little Mak, I shall be observing the moon during these sucker holes ;)

DavidU
31-07-2009, 08:13 PM
Yeh, I just had a look and it........ well, it's rotten.

pgc hunter
31-07-2009, 08:37 PM
Yep, it's a soup of crap outside. But the moon is up so that lessens the blow to the gonads, but tbh I'm hankering for some moonage....

The only way to live in cold and cloudy Melbourne is to have an observatory, so you can whip open the roof at a moments notice, rather than spend half an hour setting up ya 12" beast only to be met with that famous Melbourne cloud.

DavidU
31-07-2009, 09:34 PM
I have the mount outside and the 6" refractor by the door ready to go.
I'll give it till midnight.
Bloody Melb

pgc hunter
01-08-2009, 10:43 AM
I was up until 1am drinking and it was solid crappy cloud all the way.

RobF
01-08-2009, 09:25 PM
I was about to apply extra salt to these raw Astronomy weather wounds by mentioning the SUNshine state, but heck, it hasn't exactly been International Year of Ast skies up here this year either alas. :mad2::sadeyes:
(Besides, we don't have enough roads, electricity or water for ourselves let alone any new arrivals :lol:)

pgc hunter
01-08-2009, 09:37 PM
It certainly hasn't! It seems like every year is getting cloudier and cloudier or infected by the DSE. I thought 2008 was bad.....then 2009 rolled around....

ngcles
01-08-2009, 11:38 PM
Hi PGC & All,

Loved reading your report as usual -- you did very well with Abell S 805. Here are my impressions of it back in July 2000 with 31cm from Bargo with a mag 6.2 sky and good seeing:

x186 36' TF. IC 4765, IC 4769 and PGC 62391 are in the same field, ESO 104-7 is also there.

IC 4765 Mag 12.3p Size 3.4' x 1.8'. Obvious but not large, perhaps 1.5-1.75' diameter. Typical eliptical profile rising moderately and broadly to the centre azonally without any obvious nucleus. Possible slight elongation in PA 135. In PA 135 4' is a tiny glow -PGC 62391. IC 4769 is is 11' N and ESO 104-7 is 2' S.

PGC 62391 Mag ?? Size ?? 4' W of IC 4765, perhaps 30" diameter rising moderately and evenly to the centre. ery faint * embedded in the halo or just to the N off halo.

IC 4769 Mag 14.1p Size 1.9' x 1.1'.Found 11' N of IC 4765, very LSB, 50" x 15", lengthened form of gossamer rising slightly to the axis and centre.

ESO 104-7 (PGC 62408) Mag 12.9v Size 1.6' x 0.8'. Moderately faint only 2' S of IC 4765. not particularly difficult, 50" x 30" in PA 90. Brightens moderately to the centre without discernable core or nucleus.

Somehow I seemed to have missed C 4767 -- well done to you!

And here is the group around NGC 7012 with 46cm in 2005 from Bargo in similar conditions:

NGC 7012, ESO 286-52 (PGC 66116) and ESO 286- 48 (PGC 66109) are in a group.

x185 27' TF

NGC 7012 ESO 286-51 PGC 66116 Galaxy
*RA: 21h 06m 45.6sDec: -44° 48' 52"
Mag: 13.6 (P) S.B.: ---B-V: --- Size: 2.5'x1.3'
Class: E+4 pec P.A.: 100 Inclination

ESO 286-52 PGC 66118 Multi-Galaxy Sys
*RA: 21h 06m 51.3s Dec: -44° 49' 34"
Mag: 13.8 (P) S.B.: --- B-V: --- Size: 1.3'x0.8'Class: P.A.: 94
Inclination: ---R.V.: +8680

ESO 286-48 PGC 66109 Galaxy
*RA: 21h 06m 28.8s Dec: -44° 47' 21"
Mag: 15.5S.B.: --- B-V: --- Size: 1.1'x0.3' Class: L P.A.: 37

These three Eg's are in a small tight triplet. The brightest is NGC 7012 is fairly easy to see, no worse than mod faint. Adjacent to a mag 12* in a thinly populated field. The other two are not too hard either, though -52 is the brighter and is immediately adjacent to -12 -- less than 2' SE. -48 is to the NW by about 3'.

-12 is mod bright , pretty easy to see and has a fairly typical looking eliptical brightness profile with indefinite edges, 1.25' diameter rising moderately and evenly to the centre to a faint *ar core.

-52 is only 1.5' SE, smaller and slightly fainter than the NGC object, it too rises slightly in brightenss to a faint stellaring in the centre.

-48 is the faintest of the three, 4' away as a very small slightly elonated smudge, 20" x 5" in PA 45, which seems to rise in brightness to the axis and the centre. Fairly faint.

I know you do it tough in Melbourne with the weather and what-not, but after having just arrived back from China yesterday, it really makes me appreciate what we've got. During my 2 weeks the sky there was never clear at all. It is always hazy -- even on a clear day away from urban areas it is at best a murky muted blue. In the cities you are hard pressed to see mag 2.5 stars even on the good nights. On bad nights (notionally cloud free nights -- just strong haze) in Shanghai and Beijing, mag 1 is the limit.

The light pollution has to be seen to be believed -- the sky is brown orange in all directions. The sky from the centre of the Sydney CBD at Sydney Observatory is vastly better than the sky in any city (of five) we went to in China. Singapore is almost as bad though there is less sky-haze

In China it must be almost impossible to be an amateur astronomer. Those who can afford a telescope live in the city and can't see the sky and are faced with a drive of several hours to see mag 4 stars.

Those who live in the country where the sky is better (though still relatively poor) can't afford a 'scope.

Maybe it is better in the other seasons -- dunno. I guess I only saw summer.

I really struggled to find Polaris for my first time (finally confirmed it on night 2 Beijing). Suspected I saw it one night in Shanghai, not visible elsewhere.

That's how bad it is. Sad but true.


Best,

Les D

pgc hunter
02-08-2009, 07:07 PM
G'day Les,

Thanks for posting your own observations of these objects, I always enjoy reading them and provides a good reference aswell :thumbsup:

One question about the NGC 7012 group: Just west of the galaxy lies 2 tiny galaxies, one of which I sighted, but neither are on any chart, including the PGC/LEDA 2009 catalogue for Cartes Du Ciel. On my image on the previous page, I have arrowed the galaxy in question, with the caption "catalogue number???" Clearly it's a galaxy and obvious on DSS images, but is missing from every catalogue, chart and source I've looked up. Perhaps you could shed some light on this?

Shame about the situation in China, but in a developing country with well over a billion people it's to be expected. I suspect winter would be better, as there would be less of that humidity trapping the pollution and whatnot. We've got it good here! (Melbourne weather notwithstanding ofcourse.)

ngcles
03-08-2009, 12:10 AM
Hi PGC,

Well the best I can do is refer you to SIMBAD which at this page here lists all the objects with a catalogue designation within 120 arc-seconds of NGC 7012:

http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=NGC+7012&NbIdent=around&Radius=2&Radius.unit=arcmin&submit=submit+id

But I don't think the one you've arrowed is found in any catalogue so there is no info on it I can see.

The cluster, AGCS 921 from a perusal of SIMBAD does not appear to have been studied in any great detail (or indeed any detail) which probably explains why the individual members or supposed members have not been "tagged" in any definitive way.

Can't really help beyond that ...


Best,

Les D

Enchilada
03-08-2009, 12:18 AM
Gosh! That long. Must have had some troubles just recognising the constellations! :lol:

Thanks so much for the interesting report!!

citivolus
03-08-2009, 01:38 AM
I enjoyed reading your observing report.



I can only speak for Beijing, but winter is worse. Most people heat/cook with charcoal, and an inversion layer traps the smoke at ground level. Clear days/nights are few and far between, and the smoke ruins what is left. I have been there on several occasions for a period of time totalling around 4 or 5 months, and only can remember seeing stars once.

On the plus side, businesses there turn of their lights at night, including on their advertising. I suspect that it is government mandated.

Regards,
Eric

pgc hunter
03-08-2009, 09:20 AM
Thanks Les. Maybe we should call it "Sab 1" :party:

Lismore Bloke
05-08-2009, 09:11 PM
I have had another look at 7012 with the excellent new CDC v3 (I love mysteries)!!. Chart attached. Also Word file with a list of objects derived from the chart. Interesting to note that 2 galaxies with different positions and sizes are both called NGC7012. The chart shows that there is quite a mini galaxy cluster at this spot. Cheers, Paul.

pgc hunter
06-08-2009, 07:37 AM
Sounds like you have 2 catalogues activated which both include 7012 in their database resulting in duplication.

That small galaxy isn't featured, seems like it's not in any catalogue like Les says.

Which galaxy catalogue are you using?

Lismore Bloke
06-08-2009, 09:51 AM
I'll have a look when I get home. I may have 2 catalogues selected, probably NGC and PGC.

I'm still intrigued by the way CDC has drawn this area. There seems to be a couple of galaxies superimposed, or in line-of-sight. It may just be a charting error or the 7012 designation may have been applied to 2 systems.