Help Total Noob. Can only see white dots???

[spotty]

Hi,

I bought a telescope a few months ago (Skywatcher Black Diamond 12" Collapsible Dobsonian Telescope), and have since tried to view it from my urban house a number of times but all I can see is white dot "stars". The best thing I've been able to view was the moon in all it's detail, however anything else in the sky just looks like white dots, nothing like what I see in photos captured.

I understand that those photos I see on the web, complete with all the nebula gas, galaxy, etc are under exposure and taken over a length of time, however I'm trying to figure out why I can't see absolutely anything.... except white dots, like as if I had no telescope and was just looking directly up to the sky.

Do you think this is because of the urban city I live in and everything is hidden? I do notice that on a few ocasions when I was at my friends place (he lives far out in the city), I could see the arms of the milkyway with my bare eyes, but have NEVER seen that from my house. When I go up to the mountains, I can also see a huge fog like dome around the city. Could this be why?? city fog/smog?

When I take my Canon 5D with a 70-200mm and point it up to the sky and exposure it for 30 seconds, I can see thousands of stars, and different colours, but it seems anything I view under the telescope is just black, with a few white dots. Am I doing something wrong?? :help::(

I tried buying astrophotography gear, but it seems because of the way my telescope is setup (Collapsible Dobsonian), it's impossible to shoot galaxies etc. :( I should of gotten a normal telescope like this: http://www.ozscopes.com.au/cassegrain-telescope-celestron-nexstar-6-se.html

This is what I bought:
http://www.ozscopes.com.au/dobsonian-telescope-skywatcher-black-diamond-collapsible-12-inch.html

I fail. Anyone want a cheap 12" scope? :(

[stephenb]

Hi Spotty,

Welcome to IIS and this wonderful hobby.

Firstly, do not give up. There will be plenty of people with more answers than me but let me chime in with a few opinions.

The type of telescope you have purchased is a great one, especially for beginners. One thing you will hear is "Aperture is King" The bigger the aperture (size of the primary mirror), the better. You have a magnificent scope - 12" is a great size, bigger than most beginners buy!!!

The Celestron NexStar you have shown is a good scope - easy setup, decent optics, realatively newbie friendly, but it is 1/2 the aperture of your 12" Skywatcher and you will not be able to do any decent astrophotography with it either because it has a rudimentary drive and gearing and not suited for taking images.

My advice - forget astrophotography and just concentrate on visual observing for the moment anyway.

Your main issues with your current telescope my be one of three things:

(1) Your current telescope may not be collimated (mirrors aligned). But I suspected they are by what you have described.

(2) Your issues may be urban light pollution.

(3) and also a lack of knowledge on where to look for objects in the sky?? I do not know your knowledge level, sorry.

Check out the club listings in the Links page here and try to meet up with a local Astronomical Club who will help you to no end!

Others on this forum will jump in here and provide some better and more in depth advice, but do not dispair. You have a great scope. Don't sell it!!

hoo roo

Stephen

[gmbfilter]

Could be just focus
Rack the focuser in or out, the white boobs will shrink to pinpoint stars
Use the lowest power eyepiece.... largest number
Keep at it :thumbsup:
12" will knock your socks off

Welcome to Iceinspace

[Rodstar]

Hi Spotty, and welcome to IIS.

A 12 inch telescope is an excellent size. This is the size of aperture that Rev Bob Evans of NSW has used to become the discoverer of the most supernovae in history! Try not to be discouraged, then. It sounds as though you just need some time observing with others to learn the ropes.

You have not indicated in your post where you live. If you are in the inner city, then yes the city light dome will have the effect of washing out the views a fair bit. This can be compounded by the effect of the moon if you have been observing around full moon.

If you come observing with some of the folk from this forum, such as come to the Pony Club at Mangrove Mountain near Gosford TONIGHT, the guys will show you some of the following:
1. How to collimate the mirrors so that you get sharp images
2. They can check that the mirrors are clean, not damaged etc
3. They can lend some decent eyepieces to you so that you can see the view comfortably, without straining through the narrow cheapo eyepieces which tend to be sold with telescopes
4. They can point you to some targets which will be very pleasing to you!

Astrophotos can be misleading - because the light form these objects are travelling from so far away, their colours are very subtle to the human eye - you should be able to see different star colours without too much trouble, but only the very brightest nebula will give any hint of colour - perhaps only M42 in your case (not rising till about 4am at the moment).

With 12 inches, you should be able to see plenty of galaxies, nebulae, globular clusters etc. Do not lose heart. It is just technical support that is required at this stage!

Let us know how you get on!

[renormalised]

Like the others have said, it would be good for you to join your local club as they will be able to point you in the right direction with the use of your scope. Don't get discouraged, you have a wonderful scope. Once you've gained some knowledge about the night sky and where to look for the objects you're interested in, you'll see just how powerful it is. I think your main problem is that you have no experience at all with observing through a telescope. You have to remember that your eyes are nowhere near as sensitive as the devices they use to take the pictures you see in books and on sites like this. Unless it's an extremely bright or close nebula, all you'll see is just varying shades of grey and maybe a bit of green. The bigger the scope, the greater the chance you'll have of seeing some colour but it'll be very subtle.

What you need to do is to buy yourself some good star charts so you can find what you're looking for. Even charts as simple as those out of an astronomy magazine like Sky and Telescope, Astronomy, The Sky at Night, etc, will do and be of great benefit to you. If you have a computer I would also suggest that you grab yourself some good astronomy software as well, but for now it's best to start off simple and work your way upto that level. Any of us here will help you with choosing the software you'll need when you're ready. The worst part about living in a large city is that the light pollution can be so bad that hardly any stars can be seen at all. Even familiar constellations like Leo and Virgo can be almost completely drowned out by the light dome over the city. There's no need for all the lighting, it's a waste of energy and doesn't deter people from getting upto nefarious dealings.

What I would suggest to you is to get yourself those charts I mentioned, a good red light torch as it will help preserve your night vision and then go outside in a darker area where you can see the stars. Say up at your friends place. Then just use the chart to try and find the patterns of the constellations in the night sky. Some will be easy, like Scorpio, Sagittarius, Crux (The Southern Cross), others will be harder like Vela, Scutum, Hydra etc. It's always good to have someone there who knows their way around the sky as they'll be able to point out the more difficult constellations for you. That way you'll learn your way around the sky. Once you've done this a number of times, you'll get the hang of things. Like anything else, practice helps and more often you do it, the better you'll be at it.

Tonight, if it's not too cloudy at the time, setup your scope and look for a very bright, starlike object out in the east. Go out around about 10pm and you'll see it. Put in a low powered eyepiece (look for one that says 25mm or so...or the largest you have) and point the scope at it. It's the planet Jupiter. You should also be able to see tiny starlike objects close to the planet. They're the Galilean Moons....you may see all four of them or you may see only one, but most of the time two or three are visible. Once you've spotted the planet, if you want a good close up view, swap the low powered eyepiece out for your smaller eyepiece.

[spotty]

Thanks for all your replies. I'll try them all out. I think my telescope is working fine? I was able to view the moon and see it very detailed. It's just when I move it to any bright star, I just see tiny pin white dots. No galaxies, nebulas, etc. :(

I think it might well be light pollution, as I have never been able to see arms of the milkyway from this location. I live in QLD, will try to find a local astro club to join.

[renormalised]

If you see tiny pin white dots, that's good. That means the stars in your scope are being focused properly. You have to know where to look to find the nebulae, galaxies and other objects. They're not scattered all over the place across the sky. That's why I suggested you get to learn about where things are up there before you really get stuck into trying to observe them through the scope. It's like trying to read a map when you have no idea of what's on it. You soon get lost and can't find where you're going.

Do you live in Brisbane or the Gold Coast?? By the sounds of your description of where you live, it sounds like you're there. Lots of light pollution. If you do live there, it will be hard to see much of the faint fuzzies as the light pollution will drown them out, except for those close by and/or very bright and large.

[Rod66]

Hi Spotty,

a bunch of newbies like myself are going out to a dark sky south of Brisbane, ie near Stayplton, tonight. You're most welcome to join us if you want to have some help with the scope. What you have there is a very very good scope and even in Brisbane suburbia you should be seeing things like globular clusters ie Omega Centauri. Try this test - aim it at the outer star of the southern cross pointers and see if you can resolve the double star there. Use a 25mm and it should be visible in a 12 inch. If you have some other eyepieces like 15mm or 10mm you shuld really be able to split the pair. I use this as a good test to make sure my scope is clear and the skies are reasonable.

As I said, PM me if you're interested in coming out tonight, a bunch of us will be there.

cheers

Rod.

[seanliddelow]

To revive your interest in astronomy you should go to a dark sky location and use a goodsized set of binoculars. The view will be amazing and you might be able to see more theen you can see with your 12 inch in light polluted skies. Look towards sagitariuus and scorpius in the milky way and you will see infinte open clusters.:thumbsup:

[erick]

How much do you want for it? (Before these guys show you how to make it perform as marvelously as it can? Back off, guys! :D )

[TheDecepticon]

As suggested, get some binos and have a poke around, even from your home location, test out your level of light pollution. When your scanning the sky and come across something worth looking at, work out where it is in relation to other bright stars you can see with your naked eyes, and star hop your way to the object. This is your first and foremost way and primary requirement to finding objects worthy of such a fine instrument that you have purchased.:thumbsup:
Keep it up, it's worth it and the initial learning curve can be very steep. Remember look up, not down, this will help to turn your frown upside down!!:lol:

[bobson]

hi mate,

I think you see exactly what you should see. But to find out whats what you need some sort of software to help you out. Approx. after 9pm you should see Jupiter rising, if you look East, you can't miss it, its very bright even if you are in middle of city.

Here you can download one of the most popular free software:

http://www.stellarium.org/

Very easy to setup and use.
Once you setup your stellarium, you will be able to find many things even in light poluted sky. Things like Globular Clusters: NGC 5139, NGC 104
Double stars: Alpha Centaury and Acrux. And many, many more...

BTW

Acrux is lower left star of Southern Cross, you can't miss it. With naked eye you see one but with scope you'll see two stars. The same with Alpha, look left from Southern Cross and there are two big stars, left one is Alpha Centaury.

With Stellarium you will be able to search and find two brightest Globular Clusters. Use Southern Cross as reference and then go up and right, can't miss NGC 5139 (Omega Centaury) and NGC 104 (Tucana) left and down from S.Cross

cheers

bob