Celestron's new EdgeHD Optics scopes

[matt]

Finally.....

Celestron has released info about its new range of scopes.

http://www.celestron.com/c3/page.php?PageID=389

The video's worth a look.

Enjoy:D

[rat156]

These look nice on the surface except for a couple of things.

The 14" scope is f/11, the smaller scopes are f/10. Really for deep sky imaging they need to be faster, f/6 to f/8 would be good.

As a planetary scope the 14" looks like it could be really good, but then who really cares about a super flat field for planetary imaging?

I assume that the "other brand" is the Meade ACF, to be honest I haven't seen that bad edge of field stars on any of the ACF scopes I have looked through, but perhaps someone who has one can drop a DSLR in it and see if the off-axis stars are really donuts.

It also has (I think) a field flattener built into the tube. This may mean that it has a limited backfocus.

This is why I really like the RCX design, f/8, no field flattener, fixed primary mirror etc. Meade should really fix the focusser problems on that design and relaunch it.

Cheers
Stuart

[matt]

I like the fact that finally...FINALLY....a manufacturer of an SCT is addressing (albeit in a very modest way) cooling issues and mirror lock.

Hopefully...these will become common features on SCT's of the future. It'd be great if they went one step further and developed active (peltier) cooling as standard on all their scopes. Sure, it would jack the price up a little...but I'd hazard a guess there'd be many happy to shell out the extra coin for such an important feature.

[gb_astro]

Bintel prices, no mount:

EdgeHD 1400 $18995
EdgeHD 1100 $8995
EdgeHD 800 $3995

gb.

[Kal]

Edit: misprint in the manual. The 14" is F11.

[Kal]

Incase you haven't seen these before, here are some pictures from a beta tester, using a CCD with a KAF16803 chip. Most pics can be enlarged to the full 4098x4098 resolution. Pretty impressive performance to the edge of this massive chip if you ask me.

Link 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26671216@N02/sets/72157618612316465/detail/)
Link 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26671216@N02/sets/72157618792310067/detail/)

[multiweb]

I don't think two little vents will do anything. My C11 has now two massive fans and I have to run them both a good 30min to get everything balanced in temperature. Tube currents are a killer in SCTs.

[rat156]

From the Celestron website
"aperture 355.6 mm, focal length 3910 mm, focal ratio 11" in the OTA part. Didn't check them on mounts, so there nay be a discrepancy.

Cheers
Stuart

[matt]

Like I said...addressing the issue in a very modest way. Not ideal...but a move in the right direction.

I too am the owner of an SCT and am familair with tube currents.

Cheers.

[rat156]

Nice pics, the ones I looked at showed field rotation so it's difficult to evaluate the edge of field performance. Also they seem to vignette a fair bit as well. Have to wait for some better pics I think.

Cheers
Stuart

[Kal]

Sorry Stuart, you are 100% correct. I was looking at the manual (http://www.celestron.com/c3/images/files/downloads/1247509962_edgehd91030inst.pdf) earlier on in the day which has a misprint, because it has the same 3910mm focal length listed with F10 after it (3910/356 = F11)

[AstroJunk]

Very impressive images from an out of the box SCT! And Fastar compatible too. This OTA is top of my shopping list when the 14" is available (and the $$$ is as well) :D:sadeyes::lol:

[gregbradley]

Surely there is a mistake there. OPT prices for OTA only for Edge HD 14 inch is US$5799. That would be about AUD$8500 with exchange rate, shipping and GST.

Perhaps that was with mount and even then it seems too much.

Greg

[AstroJunk]

I gather that the prices will be much closer to the US$ equivalent when the new Australian Agent 'kicks in'. I can wait...

[matt]

Who's the new Australian agent? And when will sales commence?

[AstroJunk]

Can't remember and I don't Know:P

Give Ron a ring at Sirius Optics a ring and have a look at his prices: http://www.sirius-optics.com.au/index11.htm :D

[rat156]

You were reading the manual?

Now that's almost unAustralian! ;)

I thought we were supposed to get stuff, set it up and turn it on (perhaps even post about how it's not working properly) before consulting the manual.

Cheers
Stuart

[Kal]

Return airfaires to the USA - $1200
1 weeks accomodation - $1000
Hire Car - $1000
Theme park tickets - $200
Food & Expenses - $1000
14" EdgeHD scope - $7250
Shipping new purchase back home - $850 (?)

Total cost for a week long holiday + scope - $12500, a saving of 5 and a half grand! :eyepop:

[netwolf]

Really glad to see some improvements being made on the good old SCT Design, which actually work to fix some long standing issues.

Kal, its a joke and I am sure it has more to do with there being only one distributor in this country than the retailers.

The Meade 12" ACF is listed at Bintel for $5399
The Edge 11" is $8995

Almost double for 1" less.

The diffrence is that with Meade, I dont belive there is a central distributor.

Consider the 8SE for $3299AUD, its $1199USD at OPT.
Consider the 8 EdgeHD for $3995AUD, its $1299USD at OPT.
Even with Shipping, and GST this makes no sense. Unles you count the 'monopolisation' of a sole distributor.

Now conisder the Meade.
Meade 8" ACF $2299AUD, its 1099USD at OPT.
Far better.


Regards
Fahim

[AstroJunk]

Learn to party :party:, there is plenty of slack in that budget :thumbsup:

[g__day]

Pardon me, but I sumarise:

Slight change in secondary mirror shape, add two cooling vents, slightly improve focal system supports to minimise mirror flop = doubling of price?

I'd pay a $1,000 premium maybe for these small but smart mods - but double the price of the last generation of optics for these incremental changes is ridiculous IMHO!

[Satchmo]

I believe that the new Celestron design has a two element field flattener built in as well for a truly flat field.

Neverthless, I can't see a lot of attraction in shooting at F10. I would have thought that at least the field flattener could have been designed as a telecompressor as well giving an F7 to F8 focus which would have at least challenged the GSO's in the marketplace.

Perhaps there will be an add on lens set which will take it down to f7? Maybe the stock F6.3 telecompressors will work a lot better tacked on to a flat field instrument.

[Kal]

The Australian prices may be double, but the US prices show a 32% - 50% increase in prices. Don't forget that the optics also include a 2 element field flattener built in as well.

[PeterM]

Just add an Optec NextGen Ultra wide field F7 reducer, these are designed to work well with the ACF type scopes and I can't see why they wouldn't work the same on the Edge HD.
http://www.optecinc.com/astronomy/nextgen.htm
PeterM.

[AstroJunk]

I use (imaginary) Hyperstar at f2 with my (imaginary) 14"

Works great (I imagine)

[netwolf]

Kal and I had a chat about this yesterday and its ridiculous how a C14 EdgeHD can be priced at $19KAUD thats about ~$15KUSD. When in the US its sold for 5-6KUSD. 3 times the price? Seriously thats just beyond absurd.

[Merlin66]

Matthew,
According to the distributors over here in the UK, the basic Celestron SCT optics remain UNCHANGED ie no tweeks to the primary or the secondary. It's the addition of the two element lens that does all the work.
Optec can do the same for ANY SCT for a lot less!! ( I used one of the NextGen x0.5 for a while - great piece of kit!!) but I don't think they can get the 40mm FOV claimed by Celestron???

[Visionoz]

Hi All

My understanding is that the new Aus & NZ distributor is Sheldon & Hammond (Extra-Vision the previous one was given the boot about 2/3 months ago!)

Yes the prices over here irregardless are very very high bordering on the absurd and ridiculous for anything from the Big Boys Club (ie Meade, Celestron, Orion et al) Even costing an A$1000 for freight to the distibutor's cost for the high-end OTA would not even bring the RRP to such heights!!

It seems that the US/overseas resellers/dealers for those brands are NOT allowed to sell any OTAs, Scope/GEMs kits etc outside their stated "territory" eg; an USA dealer like OPT cannot sell directly to us Aussies!! This is because the Big Boys have imposed a restrictive trade clause in the dealership agreement with all their dealers - it works the other way too - ie an Oz dealer is NOT supposed to sell directly to say a US customer unless that person is standing in Oz terra firma, But who in their right mind would want to pay 200-300% based on A$ prices the way they are priced now!:rofl:Probably only a moon-struck person!

Well as someone else who posted here suggests - it is good idea to go for a holiday and make the purchase over there personally and on average the freight costs would be aro A$1000 for something like a CGE Pro with C11 XLT

At least you get the satisfaction that you spent near the same amount of money or even less for your astro-gear PLUS a holdiay!!

Cheers
Bill

[netwolf]

I also wondeer if some if not most of these scopes are imported from Asia, rather than USA. I know in many threads we have discussed the high shipping cost from US to Australia, but how much of this gear is actually now comming from there given there recent ongoing changes in manufacturing.
The problem is also that for Celestron there is no option to shopp around, as there is one sole distributor. With Meade this is not the case. I have sent my thougts in an email to Celestron, will see what there response is.

[matt]

And regretably that appears to still be the case with ExtraVision reportedly 'given the boot'.

It was my hope there'd be more than one source point for this brand....which might create some form of competition.

Sigh....

[Merlin66]

Like almost everything else, these Edge HD will be manufactured by Synta in China. So, shipped from China to USA then back again to Oz!
BTW the Distributer in the UK, is not quoting an exact price but states "20-30% higher than current SCT prices" Currently C8XLT OTA is 859GBP and the CPC 11 GPS, 3295GBP

[Visionoz]

The cost for freight be it from USA or China would not make much difference in the context of say a heavy scope like the C11 and above - maybe about A$200-A$300 at the most and relative to the asking RRP over here in Oz land, the sums do not add up no matter what when compared to the RRP or street price so to speak in the USA

I would dare say that it is our low volumes in the market place for all these manufacturers that they cannot sometimes justify appointing more than one distributor in Australia - certainly if one thinks about it more, one cannot argue nor deny that the annual sales (in units and not sales $ values) for such as OPT in the States would perhaps be even two or three times or more what Australia can buy annually and that means "economies of scale" makes it even harder for us Aussie consumers. What a vicious cycle!!:shrug:

I, for one, would not mind that the distributor and their resellers/dealers make a decent margin on selling us the gears, (for after all they have to eat too, like all of us, besides providing after-sales service and support for what one might say is a "luxury" hobby) - but cannot accept the highly ridiculous discrepancy in price when we have the internet to do a bit of cyber-shopping and discover that it is that far off the planet to be called astronomical!! (pun intended)

My 2cents worth

Cheers
Bill

[coldspace]

If I had 18K I would be buying the CDK 12.5 F8 over the Celestron 14 HD F11 any day of the week.
It still is a mass produced Cat. in MHO compared to low volume high end gear.
So if these prices are correct in Aust. I don't think they will sell any.

Regards Matt.

[netwolf]

Instead of one distributor they should deal direct with the retailers here in Australia. Given the small number of retailers this might be a better model. I think this is the model used by Meade. I dont belive Meade have one main dealer. Why have a distributor and the overhead costs of that for a volume as low as ours.
Matt, my thoughts exactly on the CDK alternative for 18K you could buy a lot better scope.

The landed cost of AP 5" refractor telescope is almost equal to the current listed Retail price for a mass produced C11. Now that is really absurd.

[Visionoz]

I don't think that it cost extra overheads to Celestron or any other manufacturer to have to supply the Oz distributor any more than one in the USA - it follows that it is the sole Oz distributor's discretion/decision to price it the way their business costs them to hold inventory, resell to the dealers, provide warranty (and hopefully not their luxury cars, holidays & perks etc).

How they can justify putting a RRP like what is currently in the market place defies "good" business-sense and customer goodwill and it would only be to their ultimate detriment and also to Celestron's market share as a consequence

Cheers
Bill

[Moon]

My thoughts exactly. If it's true, the retail pricing seems way out of whack when compared to prices in the USA and the CDK.

[seanliddelow]

I wish there could be a hd dobson.

[gregbradley]

At those prices a Celestron is competing with the Planewave Instruments CDK 12.5 inch, the Deep Sky Instruments 14.25 RC, a 2nd hand Tak BRC250 with money left over for a mount, a 2nd hand 12.5 inch RCOS with money left over for a mount, a TEC160mm fluorite triplet or a TEC160mm ED with AUD$8000 left over.

For $18K you could get a decent APO, mount and CCD camera or any number of good combos fully setup.

Makes for an easy decision though.

Greg.

[Merlin66]

The following has been posted on the UK forum:

Pricing and availability details have come through for Celestron's new EdgeHD Series http://stargazerslounge.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Due this October are:



CGEM 800 HD - SRP £3199


CGEM 1100 HD - SRP £4599


CGE Pro 1100 HD - SRP £9449


EdgeHD 800 OTA - SRP £1599


EdgeHD 1100 OTA - SRP £3699


Followed in December by:



CGE Pro 1400 HD - SRP £12999


EdgeHD 1400 OTA - SRP £7999


The following are due in early 2010:



CGEM 925 HD SRP £4099


CGE Pro 925 HD SRP £8699


EdgeHD 925 OTA SRP £2399

[netwolf]

My response,

I dont think i will be buying Celestron from local retailers any time soon. I will continue to buy used from US where possible. And or buy another brand locally. So in the end while Celestron might not be trying to profit from it, they will fail in delivering there products to the global market. Contrary to the goals you have stated.
If you cant control your distributors markup and margin then you place your product beyond the reach of most average users, and then how much of this global market will you reach.
For the same price as the C14 HD 18999AUD you can buy non mass produced high end optics. Like Planewave CDK 12.5" a TEC 160ED, Ritchey Criteons, Astrophysics APO's with lots of change to spare. We buy Celestron because of its affordability due to mass production. But now that is not possible anymore.


A SCT with Optec Reducer flatner and custom mirro locking would still be cheaper. Also you can do your own modifications to add ventelation.

[Kal]

Funny, I got the exact same "cut and paste" response from Celestron as well after I emailed them. My subsequent email, however, was far blunter than yours :mad2:

[Carolina]

An iceinspace member has asked me to come over and take a look at this thread and suggest what can be done about getting around the high Australian prices. It would be possible to use my service (www.priceusa.com.au) to import from the USA. The shipping could be high (hard for me to say without an indication of the actual volume and weight), but it should not be a problem to ship. With the A$ up over 80 cents it should be quite a bit cheaper.

Carolina

[marki]

In all honesty I do not know why anyone would bother with these scopes. Buy a standard SCT and stick a nextgen on it and away you go. Being an SCT you can still use the hyperstar and spend your money on other things like a decent mount and camera. If this is how they want to play let the brand die in oz. We have far too many better options to bother with these.

Mark

[rider]

Oh good, A demtel-like kitchen accessory supplier!

Yes viewers, and if you ring in the next hour you get not only the complimentary 6 steak knives, but also the free combination bottle opener and Red dot finder!

[toc]

Im struggling to understand why they (either the distributor, or Celestron themselves) would price the scopes this way.

Surely no one in the country would even consider a scope that is so massively overpriced? Will they even sell one scope?

[renormalised]

That's what we're trying to figure out...why Celestron would allow their scopes to be priced out of the market, here.

[seeker372011]

Maybe instead of writing to Celestron, it would be worth writing to the real owner, Synta

we dont have ridiculous pricing for skywatcher why should we for a stablemate?

[matt]

Indeed

[Found]

I can see dust being a problem with these from sitting at the distributors and retailers shelves for to long. :)

Maybe at the prices they are asking for them, they should be individually date of manufacture stamped (like a cars compliance plate) so when you purchase one, you know it not getting some dust collecting old stock that although it is not used it is really not new anymore and your not paying the retailer to help him out.

Has anybody noticed the economic times we live in. If they want our hard earned, then they have to come to the party or face extinction like any other business. The choice to purchase or not is with you the purchaser not the distributor or retailer that is what in the end will influence their pricing.

[digby dart]

With a new importer for Celestron I may get interested in astronomy again, providing I don’t find myself being ripped off by insultingly ambitious pricing and restrictive international trade practices.

I seem to recall that the previous importer Extravision was owned by York Optical. Is that true? Surely not.

“Extravision Australia, part of York Optical, has agreed…” was obviously a misprint by the Australian Volunteer Coast Guard web site.

[netwolf]

I was going to forward the 'new' distributor my emails to and from celestron, but there seems to be no email address on there page. Will give them a call on Monday. Only fair i guess to let them have there say.

[Kal]

Fahim,

You will find all the information you need at www.celestron.com.au (http://www.celestron.com.au)

Interestingly if you lookup the owner of that url, you get this (http://whois.domaintools.com/celestron.com.au) information

If you lookup the ABN of the registrant of that url, you get this (http://www.abr.business.gov.au/%28ujd2h3fwktnte1rfs4155y55%29/search.aspx?SearchText=97100338092&StartSearch=True) information

So my question now is, what is the conection between sheldon & hammond and york optical?

[renormalised]

That would be interesting to discover.

[citivolus]

The simple answer is that celestron.com.au has been registered to York for some time. York and Extravision used to be, if I am getting this correct, owned by the same person.

I suspect that you will see the domain end up getting transferred to Sheldon & Hammond, however they are not known for their web sites so they may not press the issue unless it is brought up by one of their customers.

Regards,
Eric

[toc]

well, Im a fan of Celestron products, but I certainly wont be buying any more Celestron products unless they re-think their policies. Im sure they are shaking in their boots, but it makes me feel better anyway :lol:

Personally I think they have lost the plot. :screwy:

[netwolf]

Thanks Kal, I have emailed them. And asked for them to comment. I hope that as the new distributor they might listen to the community and take action to correct this situation or enlighten us to the reason for it. If i understood the response from Celestron correctly, they have indicated its the distribution end that factors in the higher price. Perhaps the new distributor can do it better.

Regards
Fahim

[gazza83]

Hi,

Andrews prices are a bit of an improvement (I quote)

NEW!

EdgeHD OTAsEdgeHD OTAs have an aplanatic Schmidt system (designed to reduce coma) which provides an astrograph quality flat field which is around three times flatter than most Schmidt-Cassegrain designs and is significantly flatter than competitor's coma-free designs...
EdgeHD 800 8"...A$3495
EdgeHD 925 9.25"...A$4999
EdgeHD 1100 11"...A$7995
EdgeHD 1400 14"...A$16,995
Available soon

Actually my other hobby which is racing RC cars shows huge markups here which is why nearly everyone I know buys from US/Asian hobby shops (of course the weight and price scale of RC parts is vastly less that scopes - but warranty is also a big issue there).

Fahim, good luck in your endeavours to make the local distributer see some sense!

Cheers

[citivolus]

I talked to Sirius about these scopes a week or so ago, and their price at the time for the 11" was in excess of 8K. I bought my 12" LX200-ACF for about 5400 from an Australian vendor, so there is a fairly sizeable gap most likely caused by distributor (S&H) markup.

It is one of those situations that my wife and I look at and say, if the distributor sold it for 50% less mark-up they would sell four times the number of scopes? After all, who would buy Skywatcher if an ED80 was $1500?

Regards,
Eric

[netwolf]

Eric, whats more absurd is that the Skywatcher is also made by Synta if i am not mistaken. Yet your Eq6 mount is not as marked up as a CG5 or CGEM or CGE Pro.

As i said before i highly dought that Synta would send a scope or mount to USA and then have it shipped to Australia. So where does the diffrence come from?

A CG5 costs almost as much as a EQ6. Why would you bother selling the Cg5?

Unless this is changed I would think that many customers are just going to vote with there pockets and go Meade or Skywatcher or something better. It does not make marketing sense. And in this ecconomic climate customers should think twice before paying double, or triple US prices. Our dollar is 83cents but this does not seem to affect Celestron pricing.

A Nexstar SE scope like the 8" fully manufactured in China can be shipped to USA and sold for 1199 (optcorp) yet it costs 2799 (cheapest i could find in Aus at Andrews). Does it cost more to ship to Aus from China then to the USA?

And why dont we see some hard hitting articles on this in our Magazines. Instead we see glosy adds and flowery reviews. Which might be good for the US readers but not so for us.

[DavidU]

Most companys I deal with who have asian manufacturers ship direct from asia. Some of the products I get are cheaper here than in the US & UK because the shipping from asia to AU is cheaper. I hope Celestron do the same.
However, when australian distributors place orders from multi national companys it equates to 1-2% of the worlds consumer turnover.
I have seen an Australian distributor trying to place an order and get laughed at and the US sales guy walked straight out of the room.
Like it or not AU is a light weight when it comes to our populations consumerism.

[citivolus]

I used to import and sell torches which were manufactured in the Guangdong province of China. Not only was my shipping cost significantly less than it was for the US distributors, but I would consistently get new product a week or so ahead of my overseas competition. I got the European orders because I would have the product first, and because my overhead was lower and I could undersell the US distributors.

There is simply no fathomable, defendable reason for the price structure being as bloated as it is in comparison to their competition. They keep acting like they are operating in a vacuum, which they are not.

Regards,
Eric

[netwolf]

I am not an importer, but i would think keep prices lower would create more of a market. Instead of using the reason that Australia is too small a market. They should consider perhaps it is the higer prices that makes it a smaller market. A range of Nexstar SE starting from say 500$ to 1200$ (as they re in the US) would be create plenty of interest. From Schools to parents wanting to give there kids some alternative to all the other "entertainement" options.

If you make it unafordable then you only have yourself to blame for a low volume market. Its a catch 22. We dont have enough customers, we should not buy to many, we have to make it really expensive to cover costs and make a nice profit, no body wants to buy them, we dont have enough customers............

Also if they are comming direct from China, consider how much of our Large appliances and electronics also come from there. But you dont see a 2-4x price diffrence (excluding the currency conversion factors) between a Fridge or big TV sold in Aus and in the US.

[coldspace]

I run an Air conditioning buisiness and the price of large AC units in this country has more than halved in the last few years due to more competitive pricing therefore increasing market sales by 500%.

These systems can weigh upto 100Kgs for a 8KW Kelvinator that comes in 2 large boxes that you could fit 2 11 inch telescopes in with room too spare, and these are delivered to my buisiness via 2 middle men from China for $900 bucks so the transport cost from China must not be too expensive so theres no excuse for these scopes to be the price they are.

I agree with Fahim in that if we made some of the scopes with goto tech more affordable to the wider community more people would be prepared to give this wonderfull hobby a try and then more might then progress to higher end gear then these companies would get their market increase.
Its like when Meade brought out the ETX range in the states they must of sold heaps of them then alot of people would then progress onto the higher end gear after they wet their feet.

Someone told me but I don't know how true it is," they sell more Astronomy gear in the state of California in a month than the whole of Australia does in a year."

So these large manufactures need to keep prices in check around the world if they want to grow their markets for the long term.

Regards Matt.

[renormalised]

Got that right there, Matt. If the prices where as high in California as they are here, they'd probably only sell about the same numbers of scopes and equipment, or maybe a little more, than what they do here. Big advantage for California is that it has 2x our population, so the market is larger.

That alone, should tell the twits out here that if they lowered their prices, they'd get more sales...maybe not quite California sized but a substantial increase, nevertheless.

[DavidU]

In my industry (music equipment) one store in LA sells more per year than ALL of Australia. This will give you an idea how small we really are.

[Kal]

Since Celestron are ignorant to our complaints, I have sent off an email to their parent company who bought them out, Synta (Skywatcher)

[renormalised]

What makes me wonder, David, given that California has only double the number of people as Oz has (I imagine that LA store sells statewide and/or nationwide), is what's the turnover in goods, in terms of numbers of pieces of equipment not just in cash terms. When you think about it, they must be going through a vast number of items per year. Where is all the older equipment going, apart from 2nd hand sales??. I'd hate to see what's inhabiting the garbage dumps over there. There must be mountains of what would otherwise be perfectly good items being thrown away...just because it's not the latest and shiniest piece of gear!!!. This must also go for telescopes as well...a telescope that's looked after is going to last a very long time...if not a lifetime. Unless people over there own 30 or more telescopes a piece, there's got to be a lot that are just being junked!!!.

That's more than just consumerism....that's a blatant waste!!!!:eyepop::eyepop:

[netwolf]

I did not know of a link between York Optical and Extravision. Bu it is interesting that Bintel and Andrews and others are not listed on the Celestron.com.au page.

Also does anyone know who is importing Skywatcher/Synta gear? I wonder why they can not bring in the Celestron gear.

[renormalised]

That's what you call burning the candle at both ends. Having your cake and eating it too. You wouldn't expect to have Bintel and Andrews listed on a competitors affiliated website.

That'd seem like being overly fair to the "enemy".

[AlexN]

I paid a very good price for my C11 brand new in september last year, however after the aussie dollar fell, the prices sky-rocketed! The jump was nearly $2300 when the dollar fell from 97c US to the dollar down to low 70c to the dollar mark.. That was fairly unbelievable... But for Celestron to think that people are going to pay between ~$16000 (andrews) and $~19000 (Bintel) for a 14" SCT, then I think they are horribly mistaken, and will learn this in the not to distant future... Think about it... A Celestron 14" "flat field" SCT, for roughly the same price as a Planewave 12.5" CDK? I hardly think so...

Their products are good. I wont argue against the products. Its the pricing... A CGE Pro mount sound nice to begin with, but when you find out what it will cost in australia, I would much rather pay the marginally higher price for the Astro Physics AP900GTO...

[mick pinner]

apart from the mark up and shipping adding to the final cost lets for one minute have a look at the hardware itself, and this is not just directed at Celestron but all mass produced OTA's.
l am not going for one minute pretend that l know what it takes in research and man hours to develop the particular optical configuration of some scopes but l would assume that by now computer simulation and experience would have it down to a fairly quick process, if this is correct then the subsequent mass production would make this a reasonably cheap part of the scope building process.
having had experience with manufacturing in many different areas inc CNC machining and extruding methods l can tell you that there is nothing in any given telescope excluding optics that is worth anything at all when made on a large scale.
we are classed as a specialist market and are paying "regrettably" accordingly.

[multiweb]

Totally agree. Don't even have to look as far as a DK design: a 10" GSO RCOS clone will do nicely too. :) They (celestron that is) seriously need to re-think what they're doing :nerd: IMHO unless I'm missing something here... :confuse3:

[rider]

Hey Kal, did you get a reply?

[Kal]

No, I didn't get a reply. In the email I suggested they consolidate their distribution channel in Australia (they use tasco to distribute skywatcher in Australia, and they don't spike the prices)

[renormalised]

Well since it seems both ends of the stick here are (appearing to be ) ignoring our emails, I'd suggest we vote with our wallets and go elsewhere. Just don't bother buying any Celestron equipment. Even though we're a small market, they'll still get the message.

[netwolf]

I have had no response either from the info@sheldon email address. Very disapointing.

[Visionoz]

Need more be said??

Now that Celestron has confirmed that it is the local Oz distributor that puts its own mark-ups and RRP pricings for the products - that has proven what I had suspected all along!

Like I said before in another post, if any one purchases a Celestron at such ridiculous price levels than one must indeed be moon-drunk!!

Cheers
Bill

[netwolf]

Bill indeed, Celestron in there response to me and Kal went as far as to say they make very little if any profit on these, and there goal is to get ther product to international customers. But they belive the best way to do that is to leave it to the local distributor to control local pricing based on there "costs".

To me this says we have selected our distributor its there problem to fix your problems so deal with there pricing. We dont make any money on it so its not our problem.


Regards
Fahim

[JethroB76]

Interesting attitude to their business.

[Visionoz]

Fahim

IMHO Celestron is not strictly to be blamed for the ridiculous pricings put out by the Oz distributor - their fault is that they have made a monumental error in judgement (in the business sense) by choosing the "wrong" corporation to handle their products for them in Australia which Celestron will learn to their detriment when their Oz distributor has a poor sales track record because folks like us would not willingly submit to being "robbed" blind!!

Either this new distributor is totally a "rookie" in this trade or they feel too cosy and comfortable from the fact that they can call their shots here because they have the protection of the restrictive trade clause which prevent dealers like OPT from selling abroad from the USA and therefore we cannot self-import such goods and have no choice

I remember well a sales seminar quite a while ago when the speaker mentioned the demerits of the well-known analogy of getting a 100% of 0 as opposed to the merits of gaining even 1% of something x by the quantity!

Hopefully the Oz distributor wakes up to the fact that we are not glassy-eyed folks after all

My 2cents

Cheers
Bill

[g__day]

The only way I see this resolving is if a major US firm goes global and opens up offices internationally. If it were say OPTec competing here - do you think its buy prices would be as outrageous as local developers.

[rider]

There might be a short term up-side to this. I walk past the Extravision warehouse in Murrarrie Brisbane at luchtime, and there are still a large number of Celestron cartons inside.
I wonder if they would accept a fire-sale price to get one out the door?

[AlexN]

I've been there once or twice myself Rider.. I too wonder if you could walk in off the street and ask how much for that Celestron XX you have there??

Hrmm.. Or are you insinuating that we set the rear of the warehouse on fire and then run round the front offering people assistance in evacuation "for a price!!" :D hahahahha

< < Above comment is a joke, not to be taken seriously at all... /End Disclaimer. > >

[toc]

Is there some governing body that can look at this? something like the ACCC?

[marki]

Guys why fret. Just let them spend a truckload on advertising and don't buy anything even remotely celestron. It won't take long for prices to come crashing down.

Mark

[el_draco]

The base reality here is that this is anti-competitive behaviour, which in most instances is illegal. We are supposed to have a free trade agreement with the Yanks... laughable. I am in the market for a new scope. I like Celestron but I dont like getting ripped off.

[AstroJunk]

Nothing illegal here. The supplier is simply stopping their local retailers from shipping abroad. They are allowed to do that, no matter how annoying we find it. We get the free choice of buying at vastly over inflated prices or not. I chose not.

[Moon]

Check out the sample images:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3798500

Amazing results really when you consider the size of the chip....
To me it looks similar to CDK quality.

James

Edit: I just noticed this link was already posted! Sorry....

[gregbradley]

I am surprised by this result. Celestron only claim a much smaller corrected field (up to APS size or 23 x 16mm) than a U16M camera (44 x 44mm) requires (52mm). Unless he cropped the image. I would've expected some coma in the corners but there doesn't appear to be any.

Fabulous result.

Greg.

[Moon]

Maybe you are right.
FOV (degrees) = 57.3 * Sensor Size (mm) / focal length (mm)
= 0.568 degrees / 34.1 arc min

Plate solve of the M51 image says 21.53 x 23.97 arcminutes

James

[Kal]

Celestron claim a corrected field 21mm in radius from the center of the FOV (giving a 42mm image circle) (link (http://www.celestron.com/c3/support3/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&nav=0&kbarticleid=2277)). Given the 53mm image diagonal of the U16M I think the results are great!

[Moon]

Nope looks good, the M13 image plate solves to 32.88 x 32.88 arcminutes. Good stuff.

[sejanus]

An update on the pricing as I've been investigating this a fair bit over the last few days as I mull over my choices for my upcoming EQ mount.

optcorp.com will sell a EdgeHD 9.25" OTA for $1799 usd. This includes free shipping to anywhere in the states.

You then use one of those redirection companies in the states - I was looking at using myusa.com which charges $7 usd a month (or $60 a year).

I believe shipping will be approx $250 usd. They list $275 usd for 50lbs as a idea.

So,

$1799 usd + $250 usd shipping + $7 usd = $2056 usd

= $2477 australian

+ 10% gst
+ $60 handling fee (approx)

total about $2780 aussie landed to your door. Pity the dollar isn't in the high 90's again or I'd do that tonight :lol:

Normally $3699 from andrews so at the expense of warranty you'd save a fraction over $900. I haven't done the math but I imagine the saving is greater as you go to the 11" and 14" varieties. It's a similar saving for the normal 11" model which is $1749 usd.

I think the guys at andrews are decent guys and I suspect the blame is with the place they get them from.

The meades are quite a bit better, I think $3199 for the 10" ACF is still pricey, but ok given the local warranty and the excellent support from bintel.

As to whether the celestron is better than the meade I have no idea. You guys prob know better than me in that area!

[gb_astro]

I would also check whether that $250 freight charge includes getting it through Customs for you. If not, it could cost you another $250 to have the courier company handle all the paper work.

gb.

[Moon]

There will also be 5% import duty I would say.

Andrews have already sold a few apparently - not sure where they have gone to. Anyone want to own up?

[sejanus]

That was the handling fee I was referring to - basing that of all the camera lenses I've bought from the states (I'm a photog). I've never had a $250 handling fee - it'a always around $48-$60 even on my biggest purchase ($5200 usd).

Failing that though you could do the customs yourself - pretty easy to do though you have to wait 7-10 days extra.

[gb_astro]

That sounds like a bargain then.
I had a quote on a DM6 mount (about 30lbs) from the states:
USPS, do my own Customs = US$220,
UPS, door to door = US$440.

gb.

[sejanus]

I've never specifically asked for it - just when I get USPS or fedex via adorama.com when there is customs to be paid they call me to get my credit card info before it lands, and it's always 10% plus a small handling fee.

[bigbod]

I'll own up, I bought a CGEM + EdgeHD 800 from Andrews a few weeks ago. Looking forward to some HyperStar imaging when I get my SX camera and HyperStar lens :)

I investigated the cost of importing from the US (using a third party service) but at US$2399 + Third-party fee + Exchange Rate (~.90 at the time, now worse) + Import Duty + Shipping (for three large boxes) + No Warranty + Risk to OTA during shipping the savings didn't seem worth it.

I've imported plenty of accessories this way, just wasn't willing to take the chance on the scope itself.

How is it? Isn't hasn't stop raining in Newcastle since I purchased it :lol:

[sejanus]

The shipping ended up being $335 (note, I haven't done it - just enquired) and yeah I think I missed the 5% import duty (I don't seem to get hit by this with a lot of my camera lens purchases) so yeah the savings is dropping, I think you'd now save $500-$600 odd and thats getting about the mark where you'd have to say might as well buy it locally.

Anyway I'm obsessed by refractors at the moment so am leaving the sct to a bit later.

Good luck with your scope Rod, they look awesome.

[Moon]

Rod - Congratulations - keep us posted with the results. I'm sure you will be very happy.
James

[gregbradley]

Yes Rod, I think you made an excellent purchase and look forward to some results with it.

Corrected mirrored scopes are the current apex of amateur astronomy apart from high end APOs.

Greg.

[bigbod]

Thanks. Yeah, when I did my calculations the savings were better than now, around the $1000 mark, but I just couldn't get my mind around the warranty and OTA risk.





Will do! It'll be a month or so before I'm kitted up with my SX camera and HyperStar. Hopefully, it'll have stopped raining by then.

A few initial observations:

1. The CGEM mount appears very solid for an 8". I imagine it would also handle the 9.25" fine... not so sure about the 11" for photography.

2. I haven't been able to achieve complete balance in DEC. No big deal for observing, and the addition of a HyperStar lens + camera will most likely compensate when the time comes.

3. Having been used to a Meade LX-90 for observing, I can feel a few acts of contortion coming :lol:

Picture attached for anyone interested.

Cheers
Rod