Refractor Telescopes vs Reflector

[Jimmy]

Hi All. I know the basic differences between refractor and reflector but I just wanted to find out what the best value for money refractor would be (around $300-400) and best reflector (for around the same cost). I've been reading the forums about the 8in DOB's from Andrews. Please someone let me know! Im desperate to buy and get started. I have been looking through the Bino's for way too long now!!

Thanks all!

[ving]

the 8"dobs from andrews are extremely good value for money. dont know bout refractors tho.. :)

[Jimmy]

Would I be lucky enough to get the 399 quote from andrews as well?
Maybe. I checked their website, and there is nothing there for 399.
Please help.

[ving]

they are only a phone call away :)
2 people from this forum got that deal recently :)

[iceman]

I reckon you'd get it for $399, for sure.. Tell him you visited this forum and noticed some other members got them recently.

Reflectors give you more bang for your buck.. refractors are more of a specialist scope, or a smaller grab'n'go scope.. they are quite expensive for good quality, or they're cheap and nasty - in which case you should stay away from them.

The $399 deal is the best you'll get for the price anywhere at the moment. You get a good quality scope and 4 eyepieces - enough to last you until you save up for more eyepieces, a barlow lens, other accessories.. :)

Just beware, this can be an addictive expensive hobby if you let it! :)

[cometcatcher]

For $400 you'd be lucky to get a 4 inch refractor and the 8 inch reflector would blow it out of the water.

[Jimmy]

if you check my other post you can see the refractor im considering. I think I will go with the dob but my wife likes the refractor (compact size etc).

dont know.

[ving]

Aaahh! the wife!
I know all about that!:evil2:
:P

tell her you will paint the outside of the dob any colour she likes!:ashamed:

[mch62]

I would agree with Iceman in the Dob is going to give you the best bang for your buck as far as visual observing goes.
later on if you fell like dabbling in photography adding an EQ mount to that size scope won't send you into bankruptcy.

For $400 you will only get a 60-70mm refractor maybe on an EQ mount , but you may soon out grow that size or grow tired of the lack of performance and objects within its reach.

It all comes down to aperature and light grasp and 8" will win compared to sub 4".
Although small fast refractors make great wide field photo lenses , but that comes later on.

Go for the Dob.

The only thing you will need to be aware of , is a Dob is going to need continual attention to collimation and keeping the optical surfaces clean. So you will have to get phisical with them from time to time.
The refractor is fairly maintanence free.


Mark

[ballaratdragons]

Buy the wife one of those useless but pretty brass telescopes as an ornament for her loungeroom! About $40 in some shops.

If you want to be serious about astronomy, get a reflector. The amount of light gathering power can't be beaten.

[ballaratdragons]

Also remind her that the dob has a refractor on it as well! (the finderscope). 2 for the price of one. ha ha

[mch62]

For the price:face:

[ballaratdragons]

OOPS! Sorry.

I meant 'light gathering power dollar per millimetre'.

[[1ponders]]

For $300 - $400 Aus you will be flat out getting a halfway decent new refractor (went through this process at the start of 2004, yep guys I bought two new telescopes in 1 year, warning Jimmy when you get hooked you get hooked :D) and if it is decent then I'd be really surprised if the mount was suitable.

Have a look in your local Trading Post newspaper if you want a refractor. They will take more (relative) abuse than a reflector so the chances are if a 4 inch one comes up for sale it would be ok, as long as it doesn't have anyobvious dings in it. But as everyone else here has said, "more bang for the Bucks" get a reflector.

[[1ponders]]

I just checked you other post. We have the same scope, the smaller one, at the Mapleton observatory (sitting in a cupboard). Its not mounted but the view through it is not too bad, though nothing to write home about, however it does have a nice and wide Field of View (FOV).

Iwouldn't touch those two mounts with a barge pole, though. They would be lucky to hold a pair of binoculars steady. For the size of the scopes they are just too small and flimsy.

Go for Dob and really enjoy the skies. I would not like to see someone who is keen to get started Say "This sucks" and throw it all in because of poor mounting.

[wavelandscott]

I agree with the comments and heartily endorse reflectors and a Dob in particular if you are getting started...

But, do know that you will need to most likely make a few modifications to help it perform better...you can check out some of the other posts...

You will also need to collimate it once in a while...while none of these things are difficult, it is something that you should recognize...it won't necessarily be "grab and go" with a Dob...

Dobs are literally "hands on"...and while you can get tracking systems for them...generally for beginners they are "push to" not "go to"...and they are not suitable for viewing during the day (wild life, neighbors etc.)

You will get more light catching ability and for me it was the right choice but, you need to think about how you want to work with the hobby and the gear...

Did anyone ask what you wanted to view?

That is another key question to answer before jumping in.

Sorry if you've already been through these thoughts...

Enjoy the hobby...

[[1ponders]]

Here Here Wavelandscott. Very important question. What do you want to view?

[ballaratdragons]

and don't say 'The Sky".

[Jimmy]

I was very interested in terrestrial viewing, saturn, jupiter, mars, the moon etc.

THat is my main purpose, but when you think about it there are only so many planets you can look at. Star clusters etc interest me a fair bit as well and I will get much more into looking at the further nebulae and clusters later on when I become more experienced.

Im not interested in photography as yet, but at a later stage I most likely will attach a computer controller to my laptop and use some astronomy software. But thats much later (I want to be well experienced....2 to 4 years down the track).

I am serious about making this a hobby. Im subscribing to Australian Sky and Telescope.

THanks for the help guys.

[Jimmy]

Here is a great begginers guide I have found on choosing a telescope.

http://www.scopereviews.com/begin.html

Try it, it's great.

[Mick]

Jimmy have a read of this http://astronomy.trilobytes.com.au/scope.htm#junk

[rumples riot]

Hey Jimmy, this is the single most important question that you will face in this hobby. Which scope do I buy?

Now the easy answer is this. A refractor under 5 inches is going to give very limited views of the planets. The Optics will be very poor in General and you will need to spend something in the order of at least $1500.00 to get something half decent with some of the features in glass technology that are now available. That is the image will not have a purple tinge or suffer the effects akin to a prism. Remember this is for purely optical viewing, if the scope does not work the way you want it, you will become very despondent.

Whereas a reflector of good quality can be obtained for around $500-$900 depending on the diameter. The larger the better. 10" is probably optimum and most likely the easiest to move around per light gathering capacity. On top of this, the scope will have a wider range of ability than a refractor.

Best of luck with your decision.

[Starkler]

A 6 inch gso dob for $299 will beat the 70mm refractors you are considering in every department. Stability, brightness of view, resolution, and by a long way !

Spend another $100 for the 8 inch model and you have a very capable scope that could keep you happy for many years.

Geoff

[iceman]

There's an overwhelming weight of opinion for the reflector Jimmy, and I continue to put my support behind that.

You can be get very seriously into this hobby with a 6 or 8" dobsonian. The most important trait you need is the desire and willingness to learn, and it seems like you've already got that so you're halfway there.

There's a lot to know, a lot to learn, but with the help and advice you can on forums like this, the slope can seem much easier to climb and you'll come up to speed much faster.

AS&T is a good mag, you should also check out "Sky & Space" which is another very good Australian astronomy publication.

[MintSauce]

Apart from tracking the object, I've been testing high powers for viewing saturn and it's very hard to keep in the FOV. My Dob is still a little sticky which I'm trying to find the best way to fix (I have teflon sliders all over the base)

I'd basically suggest the Dob, it was me and frosty that got the 8" for a good price, I also got a couple Ultrawide eyepieces in with it. I've been having great fun watching saturn, orion (the nebula and the multiple stars) and a few others (there was this multiple star with 2 blue/white and a red....wish I could remember wtf I was looking at, didn't have my log book with me).

As the others have said, for planetery work a refractor is the way to go, BUT on a limited budget of that the GSO dob will really be the best option, and hey you can add a EQ mount at some point (which I would like to do to take some photos)

Hope this ramble is of a little help.

[MintSauce]

heh and you should go read the modding post, the ppl with dobs have all modified them and some look like they got enuf gadgets to take off :cool:

don't worry if you need to say
:help2: :newbie:

We won't just :lol2:

So no worries and go have some fun under the stars :stargaze:

(Edit: Heh, just noticed this was my 50th post here, yay)

[ving]

was wondering how you were going with your new scope minty :)
hope your enjoying it. as for the sticking, try making 4 or so plastic milk bottle washers to go in the center. you azimuth action wil improve from this.

a 8" will also let you chase faint fuzzies like galaxies and planetary nebulas.

you wont see them in a small refractor at all. sure faint fuzzies arent as pretty as say jupiter but its all about the hunt then isnt it :)

[Jimmy]

Im going with either a 6" or 8" DOB (pref the 8). Im just worried about the planet tracking capabilities, but I suppose I should just bother with getting used to the thing at first....

Thanks for all the help guys!!!

[ballaratdragons]

Hey Jimmy,

I started with a 4 1/4" relector about 20 years ago and had a ball.

As for your planet tracking, you will find that you will stay with a planet quite easily. It takes about 2 minutes to learn which way to move the scope and how fast an object in FOV moves.

[Jimmy]

Grouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

It's Official, I'm Going with the 8" DOB!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks All!!

[Jimmy]

Im going with the Andrews GS-680 Limited 8" f/6 Dobsonian.

Which eyepieces should I choose guys?

[rumples riot]

26mm, 20mm and 12.5mm and the very best you can afford. Don't skimp on this, this is more critical than the objective.

[Jimmy]

Seeing as you get the 9mm and 25mm I'll go for the 12.5mm and 30mm or maybe i should get a 6.5mm.

Does anyone know what quality these eyepieces are of?

[Jimmy]

Ooops! Also whats the difference between plossl and super plossl if any at all?

[Starkler]

As a GSO dob owner myself I'd go for a 12.5 and a 15mm.
These are useful for dso observing and when combined with a barlow (as you will undoubtedly get for viewing planets) will give just the right magnification ranges :)

[ballaratdragons]

Hi Jimmy,

The Super Plossl is supposed to have a slightly wider FOV than the normal Plossl but not many people can notice the difference.

Plossls are 50 degrees and Super Plossls are 52 degrees.

A lot of companies now use the name 'Super Plossl' but it was concocted by Meade.

Has anyone ever noticed any difference between the two?

[Starkler]

The "super plossl" was originally a Meade as Ken said, and there was a difference. It was a 5 element Masayuma design a-la Celestron Ultima , orion ultrascopic and the like.

Nowadays "super plossl" is a meaningless marketing name which denotes nothing.

Geoff

[MintSauce]

Check out the thread with me and frosty about eye pieces, I got the 6.5 and I find it a bit crappy; I cannot really see much through it as I need to get so close to it it's unreal.

I Love the 15/20mm GSO Super views (the 20 is best) if you fancy getting one 'better' eyepiece as you order. I got the 20mm and an Andrews 80degree 30mm which is a huge and great eye piece. These cheaper eyepieces suffer from coma at the edges but the view is amazing for the price (79 bucks and 150bucks). A Couple of half decent eyepieces and a barlow will last you a while, I have only used the 9mm eye piece out of all I got with the scope, when I required 400x magnification - the rest were used for a night then not touched since cause of the superview and the Andrews eyepieces.

(gottah learn to use the enter key)

G.

[MintSauce]

just a note : the eyepieces do suffer from coma, but to aviod this you'd need a nagler which runs at 600-900 bucks :(

Anyhow I spent 750 in total (read my thread about Andrews limited 200mm...etc...) and I'm not regretting it one bit (apart from the uncontrollable urge to spend more)

G.

[Starkler]

I have the 20mm superview and it does suffer aberations in f5 scope.
How does the 15mm compare ?

[iceman]

You're not alone there Gordon.. :D

Luckily I have a wife and family to restrict my spending, otherwise it would be very hard to stop buying stuff.

[MintSauce]

heh well I've just had a baby born, so I don't spend more, but I really want to get some sort of tracking scope as I'm a photographer as well so I've done star trails etc....really want to just attach the 35mm to the scope and maybe modify a webcam to work too but on the dob kinda seems pointless (might image the moon tho).

[iceman]

Not pointless, but not completely fun either ;) You've seen my images taken using the dob and both a digicam and a webcam haven't you?

[MintSauce]

/me clicks the "iceinspace" link in mikes signature.

[MintSauce]

could not find the "how to image with a Dob" section, maybe you've forgotton to write it?

[MintSauce]

nice piccies tho, didn't think you could get results that good with a dob tbh :D

I wish I had a good digital camera; mine has max exposure of like 1second, cannot set manually :( I like your shots of the sky with just the camera they are well good.

G.

[iceman]

I haven't forgotten, it's on my list of things to do :)

There's some more recent images of Jupiter and Saturn in the "Solar System" forum which I haven't put on the site yet..

Imaging with a dob is possible.. it's just not exactly as fun as it would be with a tracking mount.

edit: and thanks for the feedback, I like taking widefield tripod shots..

[Starkler]

Try googling these words, "equatorial platform"

[iceman]

I've thought many times (http://www.iceinspace.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=99) about building or buying one of those, or even something like Dob Driver II..

It's just the $$ and time.. maybe one day.

[ving]

wouldnt it be great tho ice :)

gah! family... cant live with em (and still spend heaps of $$), cant live with out :)

even a 1 second exposure can get some results... tho not much.jupiter (http://photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/8inch_dob/?action=view&current=Pict0012.jpg)
jupiter with 2 moons transiting (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/8inch_dob/Dsc03203.jpg)
tuc47 (http://photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/8inch_dob/?action=view&current=Dsc03950.jpg)
moon (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/8inch_dob/Pict0007.jpg)
moon again (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/8inch_dob/Pict0002.jpg)

all with a exposure of about 1 sec. single image (no stacking multiples and a little fiddling in PSP.