Japanese satellite to crash into the moon

[Analog6]

Someone onmy photoforum posted the following:

at about 3.30am Wed the Japanese satellite which is orbiting the moon is going to crash into the moon, with the moon in almost full phase we SHOULD be able to see the "explosion" as a bright flash and / or plume of dust.
According to New Scientist "It is set to impact in the lower-right section of the moon's near side." and "Viewers should also expect to see a brief flash as some of the kinetic energy of the probe, which will be moving at 6000 kilometres per hour, is converted to heat and light in the collision."

Anyone got any more details? I had a look on here and could not find anything, but I'm sure it would have been mentioned. Would I catch it with my 300mm lens?

[Liz]

Hmmmm ... sounds very interesting!!

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/05/kaguyas-jaw-dropping-moon-video/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17271-japanese-probe-set-to-crash-into-moon.html


http://www.kaguya.jaxa.jp/en/communication/KAGUYA_Lunar_Impact_e.htm


Worth a try Analogu6, but you would have to be mighty lucky ..... :shrug:

[Chippy]

Thanks for the info - I hadn't heard about it.

I'd say 300mm won't be enough.

[koputai]

Just a correction.
1830 GMT equates to 4:30 am Eastern Standard Time, not 3:30 am.

Looks like Sydney is going to be clouded out for a change........

Cheers,
Jason.

[firstlight]

Not only that, but that is Thursday morning (18:30 10/06/2009 + 10:00 = 28:30 10/06/2009 = 04:30 11/06/2009).

That little mudmap on the website seems to indicate that it is going to hit very close to the limb... Even if it is very bright, it might be very difficult to observe (that is even if I could get up that early in the morning :lol:).

I'll check when I get home, but it seems to be further east than a set of craters I identified in some images I took last night and posted on another thread http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=45965. Brisbane is very close to the limb:

Brisbane E - 50.0° S, 71.2° E
Brisbane H - 50.3° S, 64.9° E
Brisbane X - 50.4° S, 67.4° E
Brisbane Y - 51.4° S, 69.8° E
Brisbane Z - 52.8° S, 72.4° E

and the info states that the impact will be almost 10 degrees further east. I'm beginning to think that it might not be visible at all.

Hmmm

[tonybarry]

Hello Astro People,

I have the following report from New Scientist web site:-

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17271-japanese-probe-set-to-crash-into-moon.html

A summary -
The Japanese Kaguya spacecraft is expected to impact the moon at 1830hrs GMT on Wednesday 10th June. The moon will be at about 50 degrees altitude as seen from Sydney.

Regards,
Tony Barry

[Analog6]

Thanks everyone. I may try with the 500 mirror lens, but I do have trouble focussing the darned thing.

[firstlight]

I'm dreading it already, but I might try to set up tomorrow morning with the webcam... brrr it is a bit fresh in the morning just now.

[rally]

For anyone considering this event.

You might like to read their Wiki site.

http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/Kaguya+Impact

On the one hand there may be no visible impact plume as the Suns rays will be 35km above the predicted impact site and they are thinking that 5kms height is probable height.
Also there may not be any visible flash unless you have a big telescope - basing it on an impact that they suggest was 10X smaller, however on the other hand they dont really know what is going to happen and you never know what you might get.
Remember Shoemaker Levy !

I'll be waiting for the next announcement just to make sure it doesn't impact on the Far side. Could be a cold night for nothing.

If anyone has more info I'd love to hear it.

Rally

[iceman]

I'll be trying for it, tomorrow morning @ 4:30am.

My only problem will be trees in the backyard - the Moon will be heading into the west at that time, not good for me.

I'll use my 12" and either a 2x, 3x or 5x barlow depending on how accurate the impact location is predicted to be.

[Ashpool]

http://lpod.wikispaces.com/June+9%2C+2009





http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/Kaguya+Impact

[iceman]

I've merged another duplicate thread into this one and moved it to the Observational Astronomy forum.

[jjjnettie]

It may pay to get out there a couple of hours earlier then advised in case it impacts on earlier orbits.

Cut and pasted from here....http://ltvt.wikispaces.com/Kaguya+Impact

If the impact accidentally occured on an earlier orbit, the geometry might be as shown in the preceding images. For example, an impact at 14:30 UT could be observed in a relatively dark sky from Hawaii.

It should perhaps also be noted that LTVT assumes the impact will occur at a normal "sea level" point on the Moon's dark surface. If Kaguya hits an area that is higher or lower than that, the flash point will be displaced by a small amount radially.

Foing suggests that due to uncertainties in the flight path and surface topography, the impact may actually occur during the spacecraft's closest approach to the Moon on an earlier orbit, 2 or possibly 4 hours prior to the expected time. In that event, it might possibly be visible from Hawaii (although in daylight unless 4 hours early).

[jjjnettie]

So you'll need to be out there at
12.30am
2.30am and then again at
4.30am.
Who's in for the long haul?

[gmbfilter]

If the wild turkey and batteries hold up, I'm in

[Dennis]

Here are a couple of maps prepared in RITI Lunar Map Pro (http://www.riti.com/prodserv_lunarmappro.htm)V4 and VMA (http://ap-i.net/avl/en/start). The latest data I had from the Kaguya website (http://www.kaguya.jaxa.jp/en/communication/KAGUYA_Lunar_Impact_e.htm)indicates an estimated point of impact at 80E, 65S, near the crater Gill D.

I’m in bed with a stinkin’ cold so I will not be out to see this event, other than through those dedicated efforts of the Ice In Space imagers! Good luck everyone – I hope that it produces a Big Bang!

Cheers

Dennis

[jjjnettie]

Get well soon Dennis.

[Dennis]

Thanks Jeanette, for those comforting words and thoughts – mercifully it is only a cold and nothing more serious!

Cheers

Dennis

[Wavytone]

Sadly I'm fairly sure you stand no chance with the camera lenses you mention - and even if you saw the flash, the impact will be so brief it will be all over before you press the shutter.

To stand any chance of seeing it, you'll need a pretty decent sized scope - I'd say a 20cm aperture Newtonian at least - and magnification around 200X - and to be looking in the right place at the right time.

As I recall a meteor impact has been seen telescopically during a total lunar eclipse - but against the lit disk of a near-full moon, there is no chance. None.

[HolyWars]

Got the scope setup, now all I need to do is hope it hits at 4.30, and these clouds clear up. Cant see it happening though.:(

[jjjnettie]

It is hitting on the dark side of the limb though, so if it does put on a good show, someone out there will be able to capture it.
They say that you'd need at least a 10" scope though.
I'm using my 120mm refractor, a 2x barlow and the Gstar. Watching it live on the computer screen.
But even if the event is too dim too see visually, it's still very exciting watching the Moon, knowing what's happening "right now".

How long do you think I should capture for?
2 minutes either side of 4.30? Longer?

[Chrissyo]

The Kaguya website is now putting it at 4:25am impact. I don't know how much time either side of this we should go for ... I'm thinking of starting at 4:20 and going through till 4:30.

The website: http://www.kaguya.jaxa.jp/en/communication/KAGUYA_Lunar_Impact_e.htm

[jjjnettie]

The longer the better I guess. If it does clip the top of a mountain or crater a little before hand, you could miss out.
I'd better make a bit more room on the hard drive then.
You're using the Panasonic for this Chris?
Do you rig your output to a TV as well as record, or just use the viewfinder?

[AstroJunk]

I'll be recording it with the 20", but will be broadcasting the event of ustream too using my 150mm mak.

Not sure what settings to use - who can tell what magnitude the plume will be!?!?!?!

http://www.aaq.org.au/cms/index.php/activities/lunar-a-planetary-observing/175-live-moon.html

[Chrissyo]

Nah, I haven't used the Panasonic camera in a few years now - I upgraded to a DMK21AU04.AS. Will be recording/watching it all on my laptop (... and I better make some more room on the hard drive too!)

[jjjnettie]

There'll be a lot of glare to contend with Jonathan. But if you turn the gain turned down too low you can't capture the event.
Just got to find that happy medium eh.

Gee whiz it's going to be cold out there too.
Got all my winter woolies laid out ready to go, gunna need them.

Good luck with it everyone.
I'm going to go get a couple of hours kip.

[kinetic]

All set here.....we've got a very cold night forecast and hopefully it
stays clear.

I have the 12" all set with DSI and red filter ....here's a screenshot
Remote control is an option if it gets unbearable but it's about 6 deg
so far :)

I've got the 8" F7 on it too...I plan to watch with that and capture
with the 12"

Exciting isn't it :)

edit:12:47am local time 3.6deg :)

Steve

[AstroJunk]

It is a hoot!

Don't forget to cover that scope for a few hours Steve - when the dew point is met it will make a real mess of the electronics ;)

For some reason around me, at about 4 in the morning, any residual moisture seems to dump on anything resembling a telescope...

good luck

[gmbfilter]

Just got back home
I have my new (to me) NGT-18 set up and rearing to go
Must be below 0, ice, frost every were.

Once again I must thank my freezer suit & GTB

[kinetic]

We had a hot spell an hour ago...it went from 3.6 to 4.2 degrees.
Everything in the dome is wet :)
GEM flip just done, now the Moon looks the right way up at
last :)

Seeing has gone from excellent to good.

Steve

[jjjnettie]

7 degrees here with a fresh breeze. Time to head out I guess.

[Chrissyo]

Urgh, the wind has picked up. I just went out to check, put the 10" dob on the Moon and it was swimming. :( I've decided not to bother setting up the camera, I'll just head back out and eyeball it for 5-10mins. If there's anything to capture, it looks like some of you guys have it sorted. :)

[Chrissyo]

The impact time has come and gone. No luck on my end - but there's a good chance that even if it was visible that I might have just missed it. The conditions/equipment here weren't ideal.

How'd everyone else go?

[koputai]

Nothing seen here in Sydney.
7.7 degrees of toasty warmness here!!

Cheers,
Jason.

[kinetic]

Nothing obvious my end Chris.....:shrug:
Might have to leave it till morning to hist stretch the frames
and see if I got something.
Nothing visual in an 8" scope either...

Steve

[JD2439975]

Nothing seen here.

We're down to about 15 degrees temp here. :P :lol:

Hey that's damn cold for Darwin!!

[jjjnettie]

Nothing here either.

[prichens]

Ok did anyone see the event?
Slept in due to phone alarm being on silent!!!!

[DJ N]

Nothing here (and a balmy 4 degrees).... still glad I set up!

[iceman]

Me too, well not the phone, but the alarm didn't go off (or I turned it off in my sleep and don't remember).

I did wake at 4:32 and went outside and found the moon was behind the trees I was hoping it wouldn't be.

So I wouldn't have had any success.

[gmbfilter]

Nothing to see but a spectacular frosty morning
Very glad to be out in it

[jjjnettie]

Gotta agree with you Daniel.
I'm glad I set up too. We may not have seen it but we were there when it happened.:thumbsup:
Venus and Mars looked very pretty rising above the trees too. (now I have that song locked in my head:screwy:)

[jjjnettie]

I wonder how Jonathan went with his 20"?

[AstroJunk]

Jonathan did just fine...

... but saw nothing!

I noted the re-appearence of an 11.5 mag star a few mins ago, so if anything happened, it had to be fainter than than.

Good Morning everyone:thumbsup:

[jjjnettie]

Oh well.
I see you had a couple of people watching your live stream. So that's good.

[Rob_K]

Nothing here - clear & fffffrosty, but had a 'technical' malfunction which meant I missed everything (or anything)!!:rofl:
Cheers -

[AstroJunk]

Given the oblique angle, chances are that it fudded into a crater wall!

I gave up broadcasting on Ustream a year ago because of the adverts, but I noticed that they don't come up on an embedded page. Hmmmm.

[Analog6]

No nothing from me either. Trotted up the street (to clear the trees) with trusty tripod etc and did a few high f stop time exposures anyway of the moon but if there was a flash I blinked. If none of you saw it through your scopes then I did not have a chance.

[iceman]

Apparently the AAO caught it!
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Mwtzns-myaARFavL9a8ycg?feat=directlink

[jjjnettie]

Good O, thanks for that Mike.

[WhiteStarLine]

Put on all my warm clothes as it was minus 5 in Canberra . . .

Saw nothing so a quick spin onto Jupiter and back to my electric blanket.

[h0ughy]

thats good news

[Liz]

Well done everyone for giving it a go, in freezing temps :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Lester]

Don't know for sure if I was looking in the right area.

Can someone confirm it, or how far out I was. Thanks.

Imaged with DFK and 14"= 580x

[StephenM]

Hi all,

I braved the cold as well, and got about 12 minutes of hand-held video through my scope starting at about 4:23 am. No sign of any impact, but like others have said it was fun being out there!

Cheers,
Stephen

[AstroJunk]

Interesting. I have pefectly exposed footage of that area from two telescopes and have yet to find an event. More to the point, that's not where the impact was due to occur according to the charts!

If anyone gets the time of impact, let me know.

[AstroJunk]

That is pefectly framed for the target to be in the upper left corner

[AstroJunk]

Just for comparisson, here are my two fields of view:

[DaveGee]

FWIW, I was observing too but, no flash seen.

It's got me beat why they performed the de-orbit now, rather than wait a few days to get a crescent moon = less glare.:screwy:

[gmbfilter]

Here it is. http://www.kaguya.jaxa.jp/en/communication/KAGUYA_Lunar_Impact_e.htm

[AstroJunk]

Thanks Geoff, but I'm hoping that somebody will know the exact (to the second) crash time. I assume that JAXA will know when communcations were lost - it's a shame they only posted a rough time.

EDIT: 18:25:07 +/- a couple of seconds - Steven Lee from the AAO just emailed me.

[TrevorW]

Reuters: Flash: The impact of a Japanese satellite on the moon was met by a avalanche of amatuer astronomers with dissapointment. The expected sky show did not eventuate as unbeknown too these intrepid souls Japanese engineers had incorporated 23 airbags into their design which deployed succcessfully upon impact.

The Japanese did not advertise this in case tests failed but are now considering incorporating this innovation for high speed impacts in their next Toyota/Nissan and Mitsubishi releases for 2010.

[DaveGee]

Oh good! So I'll expect a lunar occultation report from you then! :rofl:

[AstroJunk]

I still feel guilty about failing thus far to report those doubles from last year:ashamed:

It will happen:thumbsup:

[DaveGee]

:eyepop::lol::rofl::doh:

[DaveGee]

It's never too late Mate!

A well known American observer had observer 105 faint lunar occs between 1965 and 1970ish but couldn't ID the stars because the RGO only accepted observations of ZC and SAO stars. Now with the XZ80Q that's easy. In about March he dug out his observing log he got up to date in one go, only 39 years late!. So, I'm ready when you are!

Sorry for straying a little OT.:P

[Lester]

Thanks for that Jonathon.:thumbsup: The phase of the Moon made it harder for me to find craters that I could identify in this area.

[kinetic]

Jonathan,

Looks like, from the text below the AAT result that they went for a
time exposure of 0.6s or 1 sec maybe.

Edit : from the AAT link: 1sec exposures at 0.6sec intervals,
Narrowband filter with camera sensitive in the IR.

Why didn't I leave off the IR filter stoopid!

I think that might be the key to it <slaps forehead>! :)
I decided to go Prime/Newt focus with a 1500 FL and DSI II chip.
Pretty wide field I know but I didn't want to be doing any last
minute frantic adjusments if something got bumped at the last
minute.
I also was at a 0.001sec shutter speed to keep the terminator
at a reasonable exposure. That might have been my mistake.
Because they went time exposure (maybe), they would get an
event recorded if it happened over the 1 sec exposure whereas
my software probably missed it while cycling from download frame
to take the next exposure( The DSI can't do fast frame rate like a
webcam can.....2 frame per second at best.
A learning experience :)
I've histo'd all my frames around the 18:25 mark and...nothing

Steve

[AstroJunk]

I still have a theory about why we never captured the impact.

It involves a rocky knoll and a smoking camera ...

[kinetic]

Jonathan,

How can the AAT flash/impact be soooo far from Crater Gill
if the Kaguya site is still reporting an impact at Gill?

I also had another heart sinking thought....all along people
in this thread have been calculating an impact from the
reported 18:25 GMT....and adding 10h to this time for CST.

See here on Sat News about the impact...note the times
http://www.satnews.com/cgi-bin/story.cgi?number=65247901

They are reporting UT 16:25 and GMT as 18:25????

If that's correct (isn't British summer time GMT+1h BTW)
could we have possibly miscalculated the time?
Very likely I'm missing something here!

Steve

[AstroJunk]

At this rate, Phil Plait will have to write this one up!

GMT = UT and 18:30 = 04:30 here in Oz. Yes the UK are on BST (UT+1) but that isnt a factor.

The Satnews times are rubbish - that's the only thing you are missing;)

[Rob_K]

Yep, time seems OK as impact was reported at 3:25am, local Japanese time (UT+9). With the AAO flash, the latitude looks about right, although the longitude is off from the prediction. I made the predicted impact point a little further south than what you show it AJ. :shrug: :)

Cheers -

[AstroJunk]

You could well be right Rob, I pinched the image from LPOD: http://lpod.wikispaces.com/June+9%2C+2009 and overlaid it with a bit of my own to prove a point. If the reported impact site has shifted then so be it.

I think it's going to be interesting to see the final results, the oblique angle of impact could mean that the crash site was somewhere else, but given the brightness of the IRIS2 flash (albeit at 1400nm), it is a surprise that no one saw it.

I've made my observations to both AAO and JAXA, so it's sit back and wait time ...

[DaveGee]

Here is the video taken by Kaguya/Selene itself, just before the big event...
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=AxDNWXZpC3g

Also in HD.

Play it on the biggest screen you have available.:thumbsup:

[Dennis]

Wow – thanks for the heads up and link Dave. So very different than the Ranger series of impactors!:thumbsup:

Cheers

Dennis

[mickkk]

Video of the impact

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap090629.html

[Liz]

Wow!! Looks almost ... unreal :whistle: