Australian Dollar

[allan gould]

Now that the AUD is beginning to recover and is at 80cents to the USD, why are the prices here not beginning to fall in line? Or are we paying for the goods that companies paid a low AUD for ?
It will be interesting to see when prices fall. Chinese manufacturers were dropping their prices to maintain output but this was not reflected in AUD prices - they went up.
I'm beginning to think we wear the short stick continually as far as pricing goes.

[dannat]

they probably paid for stock when dollar is low - its probably also a bit of recovering margin from when the dollar really went pear shaped & they may have absorbed a small amount (i sound like a company justifying something..sorry)

[Peter Ward]

The $A is *extremely* (perhaps pathetically is a better description) volatile and has changed more in a week, than many US manufacturer wholesale margins. No doubt many Oz dealers have stock paid for at the best forex rate they could get at the time.

In so far as Chinese suppliers go, some now price their goods in Euro's.

[dpastern]

Personally, I've found retailers are quite an opportunistic lot - when the dollar plunged, they increased their retail prices and used it as an excuse. Despite the fact that they bought their stock when the dollar was at a high. It's profiteering, no 2 doubts about it. I'm sure others, with retail affiliations will disagree with me (or those who simply run their own business for profit). No matter what happens, in a market that is left unregulated, business will screw the consumers. It's just a simple fact of life (but a bad one).

Dave

[marki]

Good time to buy over seas though as I doubt the $ will go much higher for a while.

Mark

[Starkler]

You, the buyer, hold the ultimate power in your choice to buy or not, and from whom.

The AUD has appreciated quite rapidly from about 65c just two months ago.
Any retailer currently holding stock purchased from China probably paid at around that level. If you want to take advantage of current rates you would have to import the goods yourself and be control of the timing of payment.

Click here for AUD/USD forex chart (http://cchart.finance.ukl.yahoo.com/z?s=AUDUSD=X&z=m&t=1y)

[Jules76]

I was reading a small newspaper article the other day, and it said that analysts were predicting the Australian Dollar could reach close to parity (dollar for dollar) by the end of the year. This was apparently because investors saw the Australian ecomony to be riding the world economic crisis a lot better than the US, therefore they were investing more in the Aussie Dollar.

Whatever happens I'm loving it at the moment. I've got an item on backorder with a US retailer which I did when it was 75c. If it keeps going up at this rate, I might have to chuck something else on the order with the money I've saved. :D

[stephenb]

I agree in part, but I have noticed BinTel have been reducing prices on some items in recent months, as the Aussie Dollar has been improving. For example the range of Meade SCT's have dropped after hitting a high earlier this year.

I do not agree with your line "when the dollar plunged, they increased their retail prices and used it as an excuse". If the Aussie dollar dropped of course their imported products are going to rise, why wouldn't they?

You simply vote with your wallet, or when you ring the business for a price or quote, and it's too high, tell them, politely. You comments may just filter through to the management, who might just listen.

Don't get me wrong I wish all astro gear was half the price it was but they are in the business of making money, not giving away telescope gear. There are bills to be paid and staff to pay.

I choose to support local businesses as much as possible and only buy overseas if I cannot get the item locally. I do not expect many to agree with me however.

This is a worn out arguement anyway and pops up on many forums with the utmost regularity.

[mick pinner]

it's a good thing it comes up regularly, it shows the retailers we are watching.

[stephenb]

I'm sure they are always reading the local forums, it would be in their best interests, but also those who were also amateurs would probably be here anyway, I guess.

[AstroJunk]

You have me to thank for that.

I spent my (and my wife's) stimulus money on US gear and obviously the economic boost has lead to increased confidence in the US money markets which led directly to an greater propensity for US companies to enter into foreign trade deals and thereby lessening the effects of the inflated US$ brought on by the transitory fiscal protectionism.

I think so anyway.

[dpastern]

Stephen,

as an example - goods bought on 01/07/08 - at peak Aussie dollar. Retailer has already imported the goods, and they have a dollar value in Australia roughly equivalent to the currency exchange rate and profit margin on top of it. I saw plenty of retailers pumping up prices on items that were *already* in stock, before the dollar crashed. If memory serves me correct, the CDK planewave @ Bintel was AU 14K pre crash, within a week of the crash, it was suddenly 17k! I stand by my words - profiteering.

True, I can vote with my wallet, and did.

Dave

[MrB]

Nah, thank me, I've never bought a General Motors vehicle in my life... look what happened to them.

[dpastern]

I honestly believe that it is unwise to rely on one currency as a central pin to world economic stability. That is fraught with danger. This isn't the first time the US dollar has had issues (and brought the rest of the world's economy downwards), and it won't be the last. The US government is an incredibly irresponsible spender. Trillions of dollars on an unneeded war in Iraq, when there's half a million homeless? You have got to be kidding me. Their medical system and welfare system is close to collapse too. The US is a "I only care about me, screw you" society, and that is unhealthy imho. It fosters greed, and it fosters uncaring attitudes about your fellow humans, something which I believe leads to a downward spiral in social behaviour.

Sadly, the Australian dollar is so tightly linked to the US dollar that it places Australia in a high risk zone. I'd personally like to see us become less dependant on the US - for our own long term good.

Dave

[TrevorW]

I have no qualms about businesses profiteering, I mean thats what they are in business too do.

Ripping people off with outrageous markups I do

Retailers be warned although we are a smaller market don't treat us like fools or we will be doing more buying overseas at your expense.

As demonstrated by the North Chinese APO which people have been importing direct for under $1000 AUD and certain retailers have been trying to sell similar scopes for around $3000

[PCH]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean these retailers are copping two grand profit Trevor. Their landed cost would probably allow them a reasonable margin I'd imagine - otherwise there's not much point them doing it. But if buying from Gilman direct allows such a saving, then we'd also be daft not to take it up. The WO-direct pricing in the other thread ('are these prices for real?') is very very reasonable compared to Aussie retailers. I'd imagine they'll be taking a few sales also.

Cheers :thumbsup:

[Starkler]

In their defence that doesnt sound like a stock item, and would be ordered in on request.

If it was a stock item like a bread and butter chinese scope or televue eyepiece you would have a point.

[dpastern]

That is a very good point. I didn't consider that when using it as an example. Of course, maybe it is a stock item, but probably not, given the cost and low sales average I suspect. Very good point, thanks.

Dave

[Hagar]

Call it profiteering call it what ever you like. In Australia while Astronomy equipment is not easily imported because of cost of customs, GST and delivery we will always suffer from a market based pricing structure. That is if the market can be reasonably expected to purchase at a price that will be the price. Competition within this retail sector is quite small and the turn over is also quite small compared to other retail sectors, so we can always expect to pay some premium for the luxury of being able to purchase locally and don't forget being provided with a local warranty. Depending on the item purchased, this can be worth quite a bit.
Don't be too harsh on retailers, they are only trying to make a living in an area where the scope for sales is very limitted.

[h0ughy]

firstly i challenge you to provide the evidence that any $1000 AUD chinese scope is being sold for $3000 they were at last email I got being bought in US dollars (which depending on what extras you choose would go just over the $1000 US mark, then add Shipping etc and transaction fee charges. Ok lets look at the scenario:

For the typical $1000 US dollar the AUD was getting over the past few months

0.60 AUD $1666.67
0.65 AUD $1538.46
0.70 AUD $1428.57
0.75 AUD $1333.33
0.80 AUD $1250.00
0.85 AUD $1176.47

Now I paid for my scope $1234 USD all up when the AUD was 0.94 which made it $1312.76 delivered for my 127ED. Wasn’t I lucky! Other retailers had this scope in stock, but I took the risk knowing there really is no warranty and no guarantees so it was a 1300 dollar gamble. Retailers were offering warranty and slightly different scopes (not by much but there were slight variations). I chose to take the risk. They took a risk getting stock in and have to cover their costs, import duties and taxes. I got mine through without tax problems or import duty problems. Lets just get a clear picture-------RISK V’s Warranty and Service. These were duly weighed up in the decision process.

I have also just recently bought a Ha clip in filter from an Australian retailer, they really tried to lower their price to match what was on offer overseas but they couldn’t really match it fully. I bought it anyway from them, in the full knowledge that they had it in stock NOW which means they would have bought it when the AUD was lower, and if something was wrong they will look after it. So while they are not perfect they do try to come to the party.

So get the facts straight before broad siding Australian Astro retailers and making unsubstantiated sweeping statements. After all it’s a free market out there if your not happy bying from Aussie retailers then buy direct from OS. It’s your money, and you can only value the item and determine if it is worth it or not.

[Rhino1980]

I don't know about astro retailers, but certainly there is a huge price difference between someone like Andrews and the rest... And what about fuel then? A great example of Aussies getting ripped off. Speed parts from the US, another great example. I recently bought 4000 bucks worth of Chevy gear from the US at the lowest reach of the dollar and it was still more than 1200 bucks cheaper after currency conversion, freight AND duty.

[h0ughy]

Well you did consider and bought direct. . your choice

[mswhin63]

The point is David is saying is to weigh up the options. I am sure that many people are very experienced at what they do. My Experience is Electronics, others Astronomy and so on. Weighing up the options I would not feel confident to purchace something relating to Astronomy yet from overseas unless I was confident that there would be no problems later (ie: warranty). As far as electronics I can get stuff from anywhere and it doesn't matter.

I am sure Chevy parts (expensive) can be sourced cheaper in the US although it take possibly 1 crack in (eg: disc plate or whatever) show up 3 month later then there goes your cost savings. That is what warranties are for. But for most people with experience in a topic that will be no problems at all.

We also need to consider the population of Australia as well compared to US we are quite small so the market will be small consequently prices are usually higher. I am sure there are people overseas buying stuff from here as well.

[dpastern]

Americans, up until very recently, have paid very little for their petrol. That's the benefit of illegally invading sovereign countries and taking control of their fuel production lines (and then refusing to withdraw your illegally based troops from said country).

I agree with you though - Australian businesses mostly rip off consumers with large price boosts. They try and blame it on the US/Aus dollar currency exchange rate, and then shipping costs, but even when you factor that in, there's still a marked difference.

The drawback to buying overseas (or buying from Andrews) is no official Australian warranty, from the official rip off merchant, oops, I mean distributor.

That being said, the cost of goods in Australia has went up far beyond CPI over the past ten years. I'm still paid the same as I was ten years ago, as is the average Australian I bet. But, that was the Howard government for you - all business and the rich, no ordinary everyday battler support. Not that the current government has been much better.

Dave

[Hagar]

It seems the whole focus of this thread has diminished into a slagging match for Australian dealers of everything.

A point to remember everyone is you have the choice. The choice to purchase locally or to buy from overseas and take the risks associated with this type of purchase.

I have just purchased a new scope locally for $8750 and would not have considered such a purchase from OS. I want the full warranty that a purchase of this size demands.

If you are sick of paying what the local dealers request for items you can always opt out of the local purchase and buy OS with all the risks that go with a purchase of this type.

Another thing to remember is if everyone purchases OS then the local industry will eventually close and you will only have the OS suppliers to buy from. Look hard at what you pay for trivial little items of hardware from OS. $50 here, $25 OS + 30 US for postage etc. Great deal isn't it. I think I will stick to our rippoff merchants in preference to a US one.

[dpastern]

Doug - I'll counter argue to that - maybe local distributors are just too expensive? I mean, If I can get a item from overseas, add shipping at retail rates, import duty, GST and still be CONSIDERABLY cheaper, then something is seriously wrong. As an example, it's not astro gear, but photography gear - I can get a 500mm f4 IS L series Canon lens cheaper from B&H in New York, pay for insurance and retail shipping, and still be cheaper than what Australian distributors are offering the exact same gear by quite a large sum of money. Better still, Canon lenses come with a world wide warranty, so there's no warranty issues. You'd have to be stupid to buy from an authorised Canon Australia dealer.

Basically, if local distributors want large markups, then they deserve to go bust imho. I'm not saying drop their margins to the point where they can't make a living. Not at all. What I am saying is that these guys get shipping at wholesale prices. They buy items in bulk, so get bulk buy rates. I don't get either of those. They don't pay a bunch of taxes either. All of them I pay as an individual if I privately import into the country. Given that this saves most local distributors quite a fair bit of money, then doesn't it make you wonder where the large difference (in most cases, not all) between me privately importing items into the country, and buying from an official Australian distributor?

Another example - when Vista came out, I was interested in Vista Ultimate. Price was US $399 (US retail), which at the time, was around $650 or so. Yet Microsoft Australia set the RRP to over $750 AUD. A clear extra $100 over what I could do privately. The ACCC isn't interested, to them it's a free market and it isn't price fixing. I completely disagree, it's BLATANT price fixing. Same product. There's no reason for it to be $100 more expensive in Australia. Don't give me that "support" BS either, cos it's *factored* into the US sales price already. If you want to argue that, take 25% or whatever of the US price first before doing price conversions.

The real fact is that the average person just doesn't give a you know what anymore, and they're stupid enough to pay whatever someone tells them to pay. Well, not stupid, lazy. I can guarantee you that if enough people stopped buying from local distributors that they'd lower their prices to be more COMPETITIVE. And that is the crux of my argument.

Dave

[Hagar]

COSIDERABLY WHAT? Cheaper I gather. The desision is yours but the risk is also yours.
Retailers like plumbers and electricians can charge whatever the feel like and whatever they feel the market can bare, and probably will do so.
You can attempt to pull the price down by limiting trade with them but in doing so you risk them going out of the market totally. No retailer equals no service.
As it stands we don't have restrictive trade practices like some companies in the US practice. Meade for example, don't allow their retailers to legitamately deal with Australia. Another is SBIG.

Prices tend to reflect the ecconomic standing of the population/ market in the country they deal in and also reflect the size of the market.
Prices at a company like OPTCORP would most certainly be much higher if they only worked from a shop front without the internet, overseas and US continental market.

Come on!!!! We pay more. Fact of life.. All the slagging in the world won't change that... It may change the fact that we have local dealers who provide an after sales service and warranty backup.

I know what I want, at least for the bigger purchases I will make.
I don't know of too many local retailers who are rolling in cash from their exhorbitant charges, most are just like you and me, trying to make a living doing something they enjoy and trying to provide a reasonable service to us all.

[marki]

Doug I agree with most of what you have said especially in regards to larger items. Personally I keep my maximum to $1000 AU when buying overseas not because of warranty issues but rather I don't want the hassle of customs forms, duties and tariffs. But I must admit that the local boys cannot compete on things like filters, EP's and the like. They are considerably more expensive and need to fix this. For example I recently bought a astronomiks 2" Ha filter from the US which cost $300.00 AU (post inc). Locally I can have the same filter for $539.00 which is $239.00 more expensive.

Mark

[stephenb]

Well, this argument has been going on for years in this country, and guess what? they are not going out of business, in fact we have more local retailers than we did 25 years ago when I started amateur astronomy. So obviously the ones who have been "profiteering" are still being well supported by the local astronomical community.

I have always bought from my local dealer because whenever I've had a fault, issue, problem, or need advice I can go straight back to that same dealer who are always happy to assist. I am prepared to pay for this. Others are not.

I have recently purchased an Meade instrument for AUD$3699, from a local dealer. They are USD$1999 in the USA. At today's exchange rate (and not a few weeks ago when I suggest they were ordered) that makes it approx. AUD$2500, so that's a difference of AUD$1200.

I understand that the dealer would have to pay:



Import tax/customs
Shipping and delivery charges
Insurance
Warranty work - Also the local dealer does not get paid for any warranty work they have to perform, which means an extra price they would factor into each sale. I do not have an issue with this.

Of course I have no figures of what the breakdown of the AUS$1200 "profit" is, but it is none of my business, literally.

But this is a tired old argument. As has been said before, and you can take your money to whomever you like. We are very lucky to even have a such a healthy astro retail market in this country.

[Hagar]

[QUOTE=dpastern;451477]Doug - I'll counter argue to that - maybe local distributors are just too expensive? I mean, If I can get a item from overseas, add shipping at retail rates, import duty, GST and still be CONSIDERABLY cheaper, then something is seriously wrong. As an example, it's not astro gear, but photography gear - I can get a 500mm f4 IS L series Canon lens cheaper from B&H in New York, pay for insurance and retail shipping, and still be cheaper than what Australian distributors are offering the exact same gear by quite a large sum of money. Better still, Canon lenses come with a world wide warranty, so there's no warranty issues. You'd have to be stupid to buy from an authorized Canon Australia dealer.
[QUOTE]

I wish you luck with your international warranty. Canon Australia probably wont touch it. There answer will be sent it back to Japan.

It is obvious our thoughts on this subject differ. Yours and my prerogative. I doubt laziness is actually the case.

Tell me one thing..... If prices are not set on demographics why do supermarkets here and all over the world change their prices based on the demographic and financial status of the area they are in.
The answer is because they can. They can ask whatever they think their patrons can be expected to pay and the likelihood of them shopping elsewhere.

High end items such as those quoted by you have a finite market, have high stocking costs and have to be imported as a rule.
These items usually cost more for these reasons. We really can't expect retailers who buy imported stock to charge direct exchange rates unless they are ordering in specifically for you. Some do, some don't.

People are very quick to complain about prices but are just as quick to complain when local distributors won't Honor international warranties.
A few of the retailers I deal with make every effort to supply me with goods at the best price, they also provide a very good backup service and a couple even provide a service to overseas purchasers who have no rights to expect the services they provide but being genuine and realistic about the position of overseas purchasers they attempt to help.
These services are well outside the requirements of international warranties etc. Check out your international warranty card, if you can read it that is.

Anyway, enough said. You buy OS and I will support my local dealers. Maybe I can afford it better or maybe I am just lazy and full of BS as you put it.

[mick pinner]

just a point regarding Canon warranties. Canon HQ in Vic is not far from me and recently l had an issue with a Canon product purchased from overseas and rang them regarding this, l took the item to them inc sales reciept and was told that it was covered by a worldwide warranty regardless of where it was purchased and it would be rectified in Aus in a reasonable time and it was.

[dpastern]

Yes, but it's *only* for lenses, not camera bodies.

The best way of solving this argument is to legalise via legislation that manufacturers *must* support products, whether it was bought in the country or not. I bet my bottom dollar that item costs would suddenly plummet (and local distributors would still be making a tidy profit).

One thing I've learnt in life is that businesses will NEVER give a good deal to customers unless they are made to. They will always try and screw a customer for more money.

As an aside, if it wasn't for working conditions being legislated, we'd still be slaves, toiling for the wealthy and being paid peanuts, with no rights etc. If your world, let everything be a free market. It really works. NOT. Of course, governments pander to businesses and the wealthy, which are a tiny percentage of the population. A minority. I'd rather support the majority (average worker) any day. I'm quite happy to see the rich make a bit less, so that the poor can get a bit more. I guess you can say I have a Robin Hood mentality.

Anyways, I've made my point, I have nothing more to say in this thread.

Dave

[Hagar]

What a stupid reply. Legislate............ We can really hold the world to ransom......... Australia would become the laughing stock of the world........ We would really scare them.
The first thing Canon and many others would do is march their offices straight out of the country. You could then buy it from OS and get it fixed where ever you can. If you could find someone who could stop laughing for long enough to send you your order.

Wake up and smell the roses.
You must be about to trip over the dribble. Try Maxwell Smart, not Robin Hood.

You have made my night. I will laugh about these comments of yours for days.

[mswhin63]

Doug, no matter what you say or anyone says you will always get opposition, reponding usually keeps the argument spiralling out of control. The thread is going far away from the original question. It is still ultimately choice and leave it at that.

There a people here and all over the world who will always hate the country they live in and for that reason they buy overseas. Fine there is no need to worry about it, everyone must live with the decision being made and they do.

Me I have to opportunity to look at prices from all over the internet from local suppliers and if they wish to be higher than the other, they need to live with that as well. Others may not have the resources, they manage.

I think we need to leave Anti-Business and Anti-consumers discussions on hold now, getting a bit long in the tooth.

As far as the Australian Dollar that is investors and government that ultimately cause it to change and there will always be scrupulous dealers not only here but in other countries as well that will take advantage.

I would say EVERYONE on this forum has the sense relating to Astronomy to make clever and resourceful decision, and should be supported that they have a wonderful hobby/ameteur lifestyle. My first scope was bought in Germany, turn out it was a bad idea, my second scope is brilliant, I bought it locally, turns out it was cheaper than anything I found on the internet anywhere. (Go Figure)

[DJDD]

does this thread serve any purpose other than to allow us to vent? not sure. maybe it does... i have noticed that three products now (at least), at a particular retail store, have dropped their prices in the last few days, which were recently raised... who knows- i cannot see their "books".

BUT, i will buy from this store, and other local stores, because they have been helpful to a beginner. :thumbsup:

or just wait until the prices come down a bit... most people have enough gear, anyway, so just wait... :lol:


also, to those complaining bitterly- do you also write "Letters to the Editor' in all of the major papers complaining about prices charged by clothing stores (say, clothes made in china cost $7 but are sold here for $20-$300+) or complain about food retailers, or write letters about the poor price paid to farmers and the restrictive practices large food chains place on growers, their other suppliers, etc... I could go on...:whistle:





sheesh! :lol:

[marki]

Malcom, I don't buy things from OS because I hate my country:shrug:. I simply apply good business sense and purchase the object I want for the best price I can get it for. Would you buy petrol for $2 per litre from a petrol station at the end on your street or drive around the corner and buy it for $1 per litre? As I said below the more complex and expensive items I will buy at home but I feel some local suppliers are charging too much for many items. Is that because of overheads, after sales service, greed etc??? Who cares it is still too much when I can get the same item for a lot less elsewhere (I live in WA so there is really no such thing as local suppliers anyway unless you want to limit yourself to skywatchers offerings). Bottom line, when the dollars up it's time for a little retail therapy and the US mob respond more quickly. I am unsure about the validity of the " stock purchased when the dollar was low argument" that is being used here. Most of what I have bought from OZ suppliers in the last 6 months has taken anything between 4 - 8 weeks to turn up which suggests to me that they are only restocking when they have an firm order rather then refilling the shelves when items are sold. Makes good business sense to me as they can charge at the current exchange rate. I have also found that a number of prices listed on the websites and magazines are not those charged when an order is made so make of that what you will.

Mark

[norm]

I've been a around on this site for awhile and it always amuses me to find these posts pertaining to local retailers, rip of merchants, free trade etc etc.

I have no personal view but sway to both sides of the fence. One thing for sure though, if a dollar was donated for each post from all these like threads and was put towards the IIS donation funds we could put this money towards some collective good associated with the hobby for all to share.:thumbsup:

Having said that, I'd give it another hmmm 5 posts before the thread is locked....:lol::rofl::whistle::shru g::P

Clear Skies!

[Hagar]

Ah a fence sitter... All you will get is splinters. If you have nothing to say why bother posting at all.
Sorry. Big moon, bored. Wait until the full moon to see the posts. ( More like this)......

[beefking]

well, off the fence here.
3 things, in my experience,
1. buying from OS is about cost neutral
2. it's not worth having a coronary over
3. being drunk is (rather) a lot of fun (but not too much fun, I mean, really, how could if be that good?)
4. she's a jar, with a heavy lid, my pop quiz kid, a sleepy kisser, a pretty war, with feelings hid, you know she begs me not to miss her

[DJDD]

:lol:

nicely done...

[mswhin63]

:lol:

[marki]

Hey you only said 3 things :D

Mark

[gb_astro]

A possible happy ending to this thread: I see that Bintel has reduced the price of Tele Vue eyepieces this week by about 5%.

gb.

[mick pinner]

we will always pay percieved high prices because there is not the competition to bring prices down.
how many retailers sell Televue ep's?
how many retailers sell Takahashi products?
all we as consumers can do if we deciede to buy locally is find the lowest price and if we feel confident with their back up service is buy from that retailer and hopefully their competition will see this in their resultant drop in sales and hopefully try and compete by lowering their prices.

[dpastern]

So, what you're saying Mick is that monopolisation leads to price fixing, due to lack of competition? I agree with you, but this "free market" BS screws all of that. It's basically a "you can do whatever you like" scenario today for businesses.

Warranty is the major issue when it comes to buying overseas - local distributors jack the price up so much due to greed, and then hold the warranty to your face like a ransom. This is enough to tempt most people to buy local. It's why I believe in global warranties, not locally enforced regional warranties. They do nothing for the customer, and everything for the business, it's like treating your customers with heavy disdain.

Dave

[mick pinner]

l only see it as it is.
it stands to reason that if you have limited suppliers in certain areas that prices will not fall due to competition they will only be affected by the changing $AU-US.
take Takahashi as an example, we have one major retailer, now l have no idea how much they pay the supplier so therefore l don't know how much markup is added before they go on sale to us but it is obvious with no competition they will not be at the best possible price.
having said that l also notice that Tak prices from our one retailer do follow the change in the $AU very quickly, be it up or down.

[mswhin63]

There is a number of factors that affect the prices and the reason why we buy overseas when possible.

Manufacture overseas - Cheap labour
Manufacturing company is overseas - sell cheap over there lower margins for retailers her higher delivery costs.
Nothing is manufacured over here - don't expect anything cheap even if we did manufacture something because standards here would bump up prices.
Low Market - Comparably a small population base.
Retailer owned by overseas companies - Money leaves the country further diminishing our value. (dosen't leave much for Australian owned compnaies)
Finally consumers purchacing overseas's again money leaving the country.
I admire migrants as they have strong ties to there people they have left behind and they send money over there. Australian's in general are so complacant there is very little care to keep this country afloat. (BTW I am nin'th generation Australian)

Sorry about the post had a crap day explaining to Centrelink why my wife should be allowed to spend her money.:mad2:

[stephenb]

I'm sorry but monopolisation as you call it is not necessarily the fault of the local dealer. If the manufacturer does not want to pay for the local dealer to conduct warranty repairs, some which may take up lengthy times to rectify, how is the dealer going to recoup costs? I support any local dealer who needs to "jack up" costs (as it has been termed) to cover these costs.

It all comes down to a small Australian market. How many Tak/Meade/Celestron/TeleVue dealers do we need in a 20 million population?

I will always support my local guys.

[marki]

Yep, it's a full moon again :P:lol:.

Mark

[netwolf]

What would be nice is if local retailers could some how offer a bulk discount. For example if there is enough interest in a certain RC scope or ED Triplet or say even a EQ mount, is there a way for both the retailer and the consumers to win by doing bulk. Maybe a vendor section on the forum could facilitate this. I am sure savings could be made at the least in shipping costs by going bulk. And retailers could also wait for a better currency exchange rate to purchase, making the deal even better.

But this maybe hindered where there is not a monopoly by a single distributor having import rights on a brand.

[MrB]

Thats actually a pretty common thing over on the AussieHomeBrewer forums.
Usually someone starts a thread stating their intent, then a whole pile of people reply to say they're in, sometimes stating that it's price dependant.
Then when rough numbers are known, the OP starts contacting suppliers for best deals, mentioning which competitor can do what for him.
Then when the best price is found the OP replies to the thread with details, and everyone replies if they're in or not.
Payments are usually made direct to supplier, then shipment is made to ONE pickup point in each major city.
People that are slow to pay or pull-out/dissapear are named-and-shamed in the thread... no excuses.

I've been involved in a couple of bulk buys and they went well, without a hitch.
My most recent was for a couple of kegs, got them for around 30 or 40% off retail incl. freight ;)

[Starkler]

AUD back down to 78.5c. Hope you paid for your OS goodies already.

[wavelandscott]

While I am loath to keep this thread alive, I feel I must add a few pieces of of information to this discussion.

#1 For the main Astro retailers it would be normal already for them to buy in container load quantities for many of their larger items. It is the only way to ship them in an economic manner. How do I know this...I used to import "Stellar Seats" and resale them through several local retailers. I had two samples shipped in...they came DHL and the cost for the rwo was in excess of AUD$800. For the record a container holds between 200 and 400 chairs depedning on how they are stacked. Oh and some manufacturers have minimum purchase requirements.

#2 Turnover on many large items are slow (few inventory rotations per year)...slow turing items need to have a higher margin to be profitable. It took almost 2 years to sell the container full of chairs! This item alone is huge versus the size of the US market...

#3 It is not cheap to store a container full of chairs...if you don't have space available you must rent storage facilities.

#4 Currency fluctuates faster than you can move sell slow moving items.
Monthly average exchange rate (USD$ to AUD$)
January - 0.674665
February - 0.648326
March - 0.666189
April - 0.713671
May - .763883
June - 0.805115 (MTD days)

#5 Store overheads are much more expensive in Australia than in the US...all aspects (rent, utilities, insurance) but expecially the cost of labor.

#6 Many manufacturers invoice from shipping date with 30 day terms...Unfortuntely deliver takes closer to 45 days depedning on where it is coming from and shipping container availability (not a big issue at the moment). Oh and GST and other expenses are due at import too...creates a bit of a cash flow issue.

#7 Customer wants to use a credit card...no problem the retailer gets to wear a few for that too...

So, if my order for a container full of gear was placed in January and shipped in February I would have paid for it in February and recieved it in March. It would hit my "showroom" in April...by June, I'm feeling pretty silly about buying a container full of anything...especially if someone wants to pay by credit card.

Moral of the story...

Astro gear suppliers are not getting rich...no matter what you might think.

[DJDD]

OT: hey, recently joined the AHB forum and have received heaps of advice... :thumbsup:

and am looking to join in a bulk purchase (if there is enough interest) of a syphon for demijohns. good to know that the process mentioned works.

the people on that forum are as helpful as this one. :thumbsup:

[netwolf]

Scott,

Thank you for sharing that that was insightful. If we could get some open talk like this with vendors then perhaps we could make it work. If we can gurantee a purchase then surely some way can be worked out to help us save on the cost of purchase. It may not be possible with all items but perhaps some big price tag items. My assumption here is that money could be saved by the retailer on overheads, if sales are guranteed.

In your expereince would manufactures take a deposit untill order is actually shipped?

What if you had a Confirmed group of people who are ready to purchase.
Say 50 slots for primary and 20 for secondary, if someone in the primary for whatever reason cant go through then the top person from the secondary slot is given the option etc. Charge the Primary's a deposit which they lose if no one takes there spot.

Once the batch is complete then the people remaining on the secondary list get first rights to place on a primary slot on a 2nd run.

Regards
Fahim

[iceman]

Sounds good in theory Fahim, but I imagine it would be quite a logistical exercise for the vendor, and open to risk.

[bmitchell82]

Im sure that with a community such as ours we do have a bit of "clout" so to speak and if it means that the vendor will save on Overheads, Labor, Storage.... they would be silly not to embark.

ide rather sell 50 things at 5% profit than 5 things at 50% profit... for one ide get a name in the astro market for GREAT prices, for 2 ide have a whole lot more turn over, giving me more bargaining power hence either better profits next time or better savings...

thats my 2c worth

[wavelandscott]

Fahim, Thanks for your comments.

Base answer is I don't know...some might I would guess most won't.

The issue with this is really one of market size and scale...How many of an item (any item) do you think are sold worldwide? How many into Australia?

I suspect that even our biggest Australian retailers on the fastest moving items have little volume as a percentage of the world total. What advantage would a manufacturer gain by making an exception?

Think about the new RC telescopes...how many will be sold into Australia versus the USA? One tenth?...I doubt it. They will likely sell all they can make into the USA for a period of time without changing a thing. I suspect that they would not care in the short term if the number sold into Australia is small, they just want to keep their plant open and running. Once growth slows then they might consider it but by then they will be off on "the next thing"

But, look at the bright side, Australia is much better off than NZ market size wise! ;)

[wavelandscott]

That is a strategy that some people employ...and in that instance the total profit is equal...if the market is large enough it is not a bad model but it does tie up a lot in inventory and you must sell it all.

However, what if you only sell 49 at a 5% profit or something else stops you from achieving your volume...then you are worse off.

As a customer base we have all made clear that we are not loyal Astro gear buyers and the market is small (we quickly gravitate purchases based on price) so what value is there to having a name? If I was a retailer I would not count on volume in Australia to get me home.

[bmitchell82]

In reply to your suggestion that it would be bad from a retail point of view. ask for a 50% deposit.... that is lost if the transaction falls though. then you have just made 55% PURE PROFIT if somebody pulls out? Im sorry but as a manager of games and phone stores for 5 years, its a no brainer!

If your buisness is known for good prices, good service, on time... then there is no reason for us to go elsewhere. you are correct we are not "loyal" customers but why be loyal when 9 times out of 10 the retail part just wants to sell you the product irrispective if its good for you or not. once the purchase is made you cannot change your mind because you went oohhh crud that was a bad move. Show me reatilers that are "Loyal" to their customers hahaha.! :D

Im a very loyal customer to somebody who gives me good prices and services and to the point i will direct people and spread the word so to speak. But on the other hand.... you rip me off and give me dud info doesn't matter how much "service" you give me I will go out of my way to direct business away from your store.

thats the end of what i say ill observe from here on! :D

[netwolf]

Mike I agree, the task is not an easy one. While its easy for me to write my thoughts down here, its far more of a chalenge to make it work in the real world.

But i think given the volume of the market in Australia, there is not much else that can be done to reduce costs. Nessecity of our ecconomic climate demands we get more return for our investment, as we have less to spend.

Thought in another way, I am sure the ecconomic climate is also affecting the retailers and if they dont make enough sales what happens then?

Like i said easier said then done.

[PCH]

... you'd rather sell 50 things at 5% than 5 at 50% !!! Well you wouldn't be in business very long Brendan. Why would you want to do 10X the work for the same money. Take a tip from me, - don't vounteer that when you next go to a job interview ;)

[Starkler]

89c now. Retailers stuck with old imported stock would be kicking themselves now if they havent hedged.

[Ian Robinson]

No they wont, they'll just keep their prices sky high until all the old stock is moved , and only then will they place their next bulk orders.

Sorry folks , I reckon with the stupid monolopistic importing policies of most the big brands (to protect the local retailors from those nasty foreign retailors in places like the USA), us consumers will continue to be screwed.

[gregbradley]

You don't have to buy from the locals. I only occasionally do.

Its a global market now and the internet is the new mart.

Greg.

[GTB_an_Owl]

and if you keep thinking that way, the "internet" will be the ONLY way you can purchase anything :screwy:

geoff

[Starkler]

Retailers with shop fronts need to be value adding and not take their customers for fools, unless they want to specialise in serving the shrinking market of the ignorant and lazy.

[GTB_an_Owl]

yes Geoff

and it's the retailers that "service" their customers that you should be supporting

geoff

[Starkler]

Reminds of an experience I once had with a very well known Australian telescope dealer. I rang them up with credit card in hand ready to order a telescope and got told, "I'm too busy, order it from our website."
:rolleyes::screwy:

[MrB]

Haha, I had a similar experience, though not with a telescope retailer.

I had been browsing a local hobby shop website, picked what I wanted and then gave them a phone call to check that they indeed had what I wanted in stock.. he said yes.
I asked what time they closed and he said:
-"Oh, those are web-only prices"
"ah, do you ship from the store?"
-"yes"
"how long does it take to ship?"
-"about a week"
"but I'm only about a 10min drive away!"
-"sorry, they are web only prices, please use the website"

I followed his advice and used the website... someone elses, much cheaper!

[FredSnerd]

If we keep talking like this we will never get a fair deal from the local retailers. Let competition do its work. They'll improve their act once they see we're prepared to use the competition.

[allan gould]

Well I have just bought from O/S for two reasons. One it was cheaper than an almost equivalent product and 2) the product had added utility that the home grown product didn't . The items were from ADM and the AUD is high at the moment but the unique design of the dual Vixen/losmandy plate from ADM won me over. Ill usually buy from a supplier if the price and service are right. One item I'm ecstatic with is my Moonlight focuser. Great service and great price - the product was not able to be matched in either area by local suppier at the time. However I have bought from local suppliers for other products and found Bintel, Myastroshop and Andrews to be really great for various reasons. But prices in AUS are still not really reflecting the rise in AUD. The prices quickly go up when AUD falls althought their stock must have been purchased at a lower relative price - but not the converse. Hence my original complaint.

[mick pinner]

the difference in time of a product going up and going down does make you wonder.

[marki]

When the dollars up, buy OS, when it's down save your pennies til next time it gains reasonable value. Our market is too small to be economical and simply makes things too expensive for most. Why would you support something thats costing you money when you can have the same for less? It just doesn't make good sense.

Mark

[Tandum]

I have a starlight usb wheel on order from the UK. These wheels are hard to get and I don't care what the exchange rate is when it becomes available, so long as I get one :D

[stephenb]

It hasn't even been a month yet...

[erick]

The AUD must be up against Uncle Sam's greenbacks! I just got 0.905 on a PayPal transaction! :eyepop:

[Ian Robinson]

The prices go up instantly , but take a long time to respond to improvements in the exchange rate .... Blind Freddy can see what's happening.

I've always believed the best retailors to deal with are those who are mailorder who order only to fill customer orders , and who do not bother with shop fronts .... you will pay through the nose everytime with a shop front operation.