Orion ED80mm for astrophotography

[TidaLpHasE]

G'day all, I am thinking of getting this scope to use with my 350D https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6798

Will it be suitable for long exposures?

I am hoping that it will be a decent low cost set-up that will at least get me started with some widefield imaging.

What upgrades if any would be needed to make this set-up better?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks....

[iceman]

Yes! That scope is great for widefield astrophotography with your DSLR.

But you need a mount to put it on. What mount were you thinking of? You'll want at least a HEQ5 or EQ6 if you're serious. You *may* be able to get away with an EQ5.

[iceman]

Oh I didn't see the link.. i'm not sure what the skyview pro mount is.. If you get a solid mount like an EQ6 or G8/G11, you can mount a big 8-10" newt or SCT on it later.

[ballaratdragons]

What happened to the Dob Trevor? Upgrading already!

[Striker]

My orion 80ED fits just perfectly on the EQ5....obvioulsy the bigger the mount the better but the EQ5 is ample for a small refractor like the ED80.

And yes...its probably the best value scope for astrophotography in my opinion.

He saw the light Ken.

[TidaLpHasE]

Dob, What dob:whistle:

O.k. maybe it would be better to just get the ota, and an eq6?

Would i need to get the Skyscan with the eq6?, or could i image without it?????

The cost of the mount gets up to 2k with the skyscan, :confused:

[atalas]

Hi Trevor, know you don't need Skyscan but If you don't want to waist time looking for DSO to image , go the Skyscan or some form of digital setting circles .
The ED80 makes for a good imaging scope and at that price you can't go wrong .

Louie :thumbsup:

[[1ponders]]

Funny you should ask that Trevor. I finally managed to get out last night and took this image of ngc253 last night with my Orion 80ED and canon 300D. Seeing about 4/10 transparency about the same (lotta smoke haze around at the moment) Nothing fancy with the processing, just registax, darked and levels and curves and cropped

Can't comment on the mount sorry.

[RB]

Trevor,

The 80ED is a great little scope for basic imaging with your 350D.
The mount you mention ( skyview pro) is not really up to long exposure imaging. Like the guys have said, get a mount that is more substantial that way you can add another scope on to it later as you may outgrow the 80ED.


Hope that helps you.

The other thing you can do is take multipule shorter exposures (ie. 30 sec each - like the ones itchy (http://users.bigpond.net.au/itchysastro/index.htm) does and then stack them. This way you are avoiding the tracking errors associated with long exposures on basic mounts like this one)

:prey:

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Thanks guys,

Great shot Paul, was that at prime focus?

I am keen on imaging the Milky Way, as it's an easy target and i can view it easy and comfortable from my back yard.

I think the eq6 will be the mount i will get for this scope, i was thinking of piggybacking the 350 with my 10-22mm for widefield shots of the milky way, and at prime for deeper objects.

What would be a good diagonal to get, and also what exactly would i need as in piggyback adapters/camera adapters etc.

[cventer]

The ED80 is awesome for astro imaging. I would suggest you save a little bit extra and get it as a package with the new HEQ5 Mount that comes with Skyscan and higher quality worm gears.

As an example of the image quality, I took this with my 300D DSLR and ED80 last year.

Higher res version here: http://www.dslrfocus.com/M42.jpg

You wont be sorry with that little scope. Its pretty darn nice to look though too

Best Regards
Chris Venter

[RB]

Unbelievable Chris.
What an image!!!! :scared2:

Could you please share the details of that image with us.

That little scope is unreal and coupled with a good mount, the results will speak for themselves.

Cheers.

[cventer]

Thanks,

Sure,
It was 8 x 5 minute unguided exposures at ISO 800 with an unmodified Canon 300D DSLR through an ED80 at f7.5 on a Vixen GP-DX mount.

Obviously polar alignemnt was about as perfect as it is possible to be to get 5 min unguided images.....Im not good at it just got lucky :-)

Camera focus and control using DSLR Focus. Image processed with Images Plus , Photoshop 7 and Noiseware

Best Regards
Chris

[davidpretorius]

don't do that to me chris! my pulse can't take the pressure at this time of the morning.


wow, i am very happy, i have just seen the running man.! THANKS

any other little gems you have floating around.....actually no answer, just throw them in whilst in general conversation.

"...yes the m33 is quite nice and is a bit low, the dork smith $5 scope is quite fine... thats right, here is my 5 hour unguided, 10 degree x 10 degree image taken with the dork smith scope taken a few years back....."

[Starkler]

Funny you should ask.....
Here it is as a complete package from an Aussie retailer.

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-058

Yes it is expensive :scared: but this is the cost of halfway serious astrophotography. As a visual scope, I wouldnt want such a small scope as my only scope.

[davidpretorius]

mmmmmm,nice!

[ving]

er.... yes. but ppl have posted thier ed80 masterworks already :)

[acropolite]

How does the HEQ5 compare to the Vixen DX..:confuse3:

[cventer]

We dont know for sure yet as there are not too many out in the field.

The DX is rated to carry 24lb. The HEQ5Pro is rated at closer to 30lb.

The DX was known for very low PE and precice tollerances. I have not seen any PE graphs for the HEQ5 yet.

You need Skysensor or similar on the DX if you want goto which is very pricey. HEQ5Pro has skycan built.

Best Regards
Chris

[TidaLpHasE]

Those pics through the ED80 are awsome, and convince me of the quality in this little scope.

I am still deciding on the mount, and weighing up the costs of them.

I would prefer the EQ6 with skyscan, so i can purchase a larger ota later on, and have a suitable mount to use it on.

What would be the best price going around for the EQ6 with skyscan??

:doh:I should have bought that mount of yours Chris, oh well thems the breaks.

[Lee]

That may just be the best astroimage I've seen..... what orbit is your scope in again??? :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[RB]

I agree with you Lee, unbelievable image of M42.
I just can't get enough of it.

Thanks again Chris.

:cool:

[dugnsuz]

Is that image for real!!??
It looks more like a Hubble image than from a Melbourne based 80mm scope!
Look at the detail and the texture in the nebulosity, it's awesome.
cventer please post more...lots more.
What degree of image processing is needed to produce that sort of image?

Cheers

Doug

[[1ponders]]

And more details Chris. Details man, details :cool::D ;)

[cventer]

Thanks Guys.

The image was taken from some dark skies north of melbourne. About 2 hours drive. Cant remember the name of the damn place.

It took a fair bit of processing to get it to look like that. I use Ron Wodowski's Zone System and isolated the image into layers in Photoshop, then worked on each layer. Dark areas = Lots of noise reduction, Bright Areas lots of deconvolution and High Pass Maksing. In between = Lots of frigging about.....
I split my DSLR Images into LRGB images and then work on getting a nice Luminance Frame using the zone system above. I then add the color back after smoothing and noise reduction in the color layer. Probably 10-15 hours processing....

Best Regards
Chris

[davidpretorius]

well chris, you are performing a masterful art in producing what you do!

lots of skill and i really appreciate your work!

[davidpretorius]

love your dlsrfocus stuff, i am in the middle of writing some for the toucam. great product!

[[1ponders]]

Thanks for that Chris. Looks like I'll have to re-read his book a couple of times :) How about coming to Qld and running a couple of imaging processing classes. :D I've already put the hard word on Eddie :lol:

[davidpretorius]

sorry, got him coming to tassie first, at $1000 an hour!

[Jonathan]

The best price I've seen is at Andrews Comm. $2299 for the EQ6 with SkyScan, he also has 80mmED for $579. Not sure what bits you'll need to mount the 80ED to the EQ6.
The EQ6 and SkyScan seem to be a bit hit and miss with quality control from the factory, but the problems I had with mine were all fixed quickly under warranty so it shouldn't be a problem if you get a dud.

[slice of heaven]

The package from Steve Massey that Starkler linked to is cheaper and is a complete package.
Be worth contacting Steve for a 'good' price' and also querying the mount. The one shown is white. On the EQ6 yahoo group, the white pro version sold by Orion as an Atlas Pro has better Quality control during assembly than the standard black mount. Be worth checking to see if that QC follows through for the white Synta range as well.


Top pic Chris :thumbsup:

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Thanks for the info, I got a price here in Melb. for the EQ6 with skyscan for $2365, and is easy for me to pick up, this would be almost the same amount if i had one shipped from Sydney.

I have decided on the EQ6, so i have the option of getting a bigger scope later on, maybe a C9.25 or a C11.

Are all the ED scopes , Skywatcher, Saxon, Orion the same scope, made in the same factory by the same production techniques?? Is there any difference at all apart from the badging on them??

Thanks for the advice.....:thumbsup:

So......... when are you making a "how to" video Chris?????:prey:

[davidpretorius]

good one trevor, i will come and put my 10" newt on the eq6, thanks mate!

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:No probs Dave, i'd say 3 nights viewing @ say 8 hours per night @ say $100 an hour we could have a great deal, not:poke::rofl:

I am hoping to get this set-up ready and going by the time the star camp arrives....me hopes.....:prey:

[davidpretorius]

you will, i really like the look of that scope. A few years down the track maybe as a secondary to the 10"

[Rodstar]

Amazing shot of M42, Chris. Like others who have already posted, I think that is one of the best I have ever seen. M42 is a very familiar object, but that image is so dazzling that I feel like I am looking at a completely new object!

Trevor, I think you are onto a great idea with the Orion ED80. I have been chatting recently with the boys at Bintel about getting this scope as a wideview scope / spotting scope to lassoo to the top of my LX200. It is widely considered an excellent scope for that purpose. So, if you go with a C9.25 or C11 (or similar Meade) later on, you can certainly keep using the ED80 for the widefield work. It won't ever become redundant. For that reason, I also think it is very sensible that you are thinking about getting a larger platform from the beginning, giving you room to grow.

Best wishes for the impending purchase. Don at Bintel will look after you (just tell him I promised on his behalf!!!!)

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Thanks Rod, i will be buying the ED80 soon, i can't wait to get some clear skies in and mess around with my new toy.

On the subject of the EQ6, i have been quoted a price of $1695 with skyscan:eyepop:is this a bargain or what, brand new and assembled.

I will go to the shop tomorrow with a deposit and to be sure it's not a mixup.

[iceman]

From where?

[slice of heaven]

$1695!!!! :eyepop:

[TidaLpHasE]

I will wait until tomorrow when i pay the deposit, and check that he doesn't mind me posting his "SUPER" prices on the forum, and a link to his store.

Went in the store yesterday and was quoted $1695 for the EQ6 with dual drives and illuminated polar scope.

Rang again today for a price with the skyscan/synscan, and was told $1695:eyepop:I said no that's not right is it?

He said yes that's the deal i am willing to do:cool:

There will be about a weeks wait for the mount, but at this price, no problem at all.

I am not sure how many he will let go at this price, i will ask him tomorrow and let you know.

[Striker]

Thats a great price Trevor...buy it.

[atalas]

Man you would sell a tonne of them at that price !


Louie

[Nuri]

Hey that's too good to pass... I want one!. Please let us know who it is Trevor.

[cventer]

Can I suggest you hold off an that EQ6 purchase and make sure you are getting the EQ6 Pro with skyscan as seen here:

http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/Pro.html

The new pro series mounts are better built and have better gears with lower PE. Much better for Astrophotography.

Im tipping the 1695 is for the old EQ6 (Black Version)
Best Regards
Chris Venter

[Nuri]

Hi Chris,
I thought word was that the new white EQ6PRO Skyscan and the current black EQ6 Skyscan were identical in performance with only better Quality control for the new EQ6PRO???

How much better gears and PE? Where did you source that info?

Cheers.

[Nuri]

If you compare the manufacturer specs on the two :

http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/Pro.html

http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/EQ6SkyScan.html

I only see differences in slew speeds and power supply... Everything else, including weight and dimensions is identical except for the obvious paint job!:confused:

I wonder if the Pro will have the rumoured updateable (flashROM) hand control...

[cventer]

Without going into the details of my commercial relationships lets just say I have a close relationship with a large dealer O/S who sells these mounts and has spent some time in the field with them.

The new EQ6 Pro is reported by them to be a much easier beast to tame than any of the stock EQ6's. After PEC programming the EQ6 Pro is able to be autoguided with a reported peak pe peak PE of 6 arc sec.... most box stock EQ6's have PE ranging from 17 - 55 arc sec depending on how much to drink the guy making your mount had the night before.....

They also supposedly have better worm gear tollerances and fitting...

Im sure you coudl get a standard EQ6 to perform this well with some TLC and stripping out the chinese glue aka grease.....

Does the EQ6 with Skyscan support PEC ? Im not sure. I know the Pro does.

Best Regards
Chris

[Nuri]

Cool, I'll take your reputable word for it, Chris. Thanks for sharing the info :thumbsup:

In that case, maybe this price reduction of the "old" EQ6/Skyscan is an indication that the PRO version is just around the corner! :prey:
...6 arc second peak to peak PE? That's G11 territory right?!! Awesome!:cool: Hopefully it won't be too much more expensive.

[cventer]

One must however consider the source of information. A dealer selling a new product is not likely to say its rubbish or no different either, as there is a need to justify a higher costs mount with the word pro behind it....

Like anything till a few more of these get into the hands of consumers we wont know the real story.....If you can hold on it may pay to do so but it may turn out to be not much improvement....

That being said I do trust this source and they have no reason to tell me fibs.....

A sub 3k mount with PE of 6 is the stuff of wet dreams.....

Best Regards
Chris

[Nuri]

Absolutely!

[Nuri]

... I just found this review:

http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/documents/SkyWatcher_Pro_Skymax_150_review.pd f

The last sentence supports your claim of 6 arc seconds!

[TidaLpHasE]

Thanks for the reply Chris, i think the black EQ6 does support PE, i could be wrong though.

At this price, it's a mount that will give me reasonable imaging, while not the best, it's not costing me a fortune to have my first goto imaging mount.

With the scope purchase, all up should see the price around the 2k mark, not that bad, and it agrees with my budget nicely.:cool:

It might pay me to have the mount serviced and the glue removed before i get into using it, is there anywhere in Melbourne that does this?? BATSC??

[seeker372011]

Is this still an issue? On other yahoo forums I have seen people suggest that this is no longer a requirement, the manufacturers have upgraded the quality of the lube they use?

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Went in to the store today and put my deposit on the mount, i asked if he could sell more at this price, he said that he can.

The store is http://www.kirkscameras.com.au/astro.html
ph. 9870 4644.

Paul is the astro guru you should speak to, great service and advice, and not to mention a great deal:cool:

[edit]A big thanks to Mick Pinner for suggesting i give Kirks a call after i missed out on his mount[edit]:thumbsup:

[Striker]

Yes the current skyscan supports Pec

[slice of heaven]

Nice purchase for the price Trevor. There's some good info on the EQ6 yahoo site on stripping and cleaning the mount, and a knowledgeable bunch of guys to help with any problems. The Pro mount(off the shelf) is definitely a step up from the stock black mount(off the shelf), but there seems to be not much difference if the stock unit is stripped,cleaned and adjusted. The problem with the grease is more to do with the amount that's stuffed in there and all the left over swarf and filings that's mixed in with it. A strip and clean is a must.

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Yes i'm wrapped with the price, it gets me into some half decent imaging without selling the house.

I think my first step when i get it, is have it serviced before setting it up and using it.

Is there any software that shows the PE of the mount when doing a guide test for say 5-8 minutes??

[slice of heaven]

The autoguiding software like guidedog will show it.

[[1ponders]]

Or K3CCDTools V2

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Thanks, I will download guidedog, and also k3ccd tools.

[[1ponders]]

Here's the sort of graph you'll get with K3 using the drift explorer. This was taken during an autoguide on Achernar, just to give you an idea of what it looks like. The blue graph is the RA reading and the pink is the Dec

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Thanks Paul, your mount looks like it's running sweet, i would be very happy with a readout like that:cool:

[TidaLpHasE]

:doh:Well it seems the saying "if it's seems too good to be true, it prolly is" does have merit.

There was a mixup in the quote i was given, and now the price is $2170 cost price + margin:poke:

Seems that i just can't get a smooth purchase going at the moment, oh well, thems the breaks i guess:confused:

[Striker]

Dam......sorry to hear Trevor...got you all excited then reality kicks in....would have been a great buy.

[davidpretorius]

on no!!


was the quote on paper???

anyway, I was readinig about these scope in the as&t, they really look great!

[TidaLpHasE]

:poke: the barndoor tracker's lookin' good:whistle:

[acropolite]

Hey Trev, sounds like you did something bad to an Albatross while you were fishing.....:poke:

[TidaLpHasE]

I love those birds, but my favorite is the almighty Gannet with it's speed of sound nose dives from 150 feet:poke: