First Light - Newby Frustrations - Not Happy

[Chillie]

I didn't get on IIS last night because I was putting my new Sky-Watcher 12" Dob together. So tonight was first light for my new scope.

Being my first go without help, I planned a simple session targeting M42, Saturn, and then see what else there was around. I set up just after Sun down but before the stars came out. I left the 10mm eye piece and 2X barlow inside and just used the 25mm eye piece.

The finder scope was that far out of alignment that when I found a star in the main scope, it wasn't in the finder scope and I had no idea which way to adjust the finder scope. I ware glasses all the time, and although I could see the Saucepan without my glasses, do you think I could find it in the main scope or the finder scope? Not on your nelly!!:( I spent neally half an hour looking for it. I even tried sighting down the tube like it was a shot gun. My eyes and head were going wonky and strted fealing ill.

In the end I gave up and packed up for the night.

I would like to buy an Argo Navis but that is useless to me if I can't lock in on something that I can see with my naked eyes without my glasses.:(

It will take patience and practice but I'll get there in the end.:thumbsup:

[astroron]

Hi Henry I am sorry to hear about your frustrating night:(
My suggestion is to align your scope up in the daylight.
Put in a low power eyepiece in then find a power pole or some object about half a kilometer away in the telescope then adjust the finder.
Go gradually smaller until you have it well centered.
You can also purchase a Red Dot Finder or Telrad to help you find stars real quick:)
I hope that helps:thumbsup:

[Chillie]

Hi Ron,

The 25mm eye piece is my lowest power lens. I'm pretty hemmed in where I live but I maybe able to set up in the front yard and look across the park. The front yard is almost as bright at night as it is during the day due to street lights.

Thanks for the info. :)

[astroron]

Henry do the alignment during the daytime as it is clearer and you can see what you are doing.
The 25mm is good enough to align the scope:thumbsup:

[Blue Skies]

Exactly!! Practise, practise, practise.

The first time I had a go at pointing a scope it was to find the moon, that great big thing - do you think I could find that with the scope? Nope.

Keep trying.

If its any consolation even I have trouble from time to time after 20 years of swinging a dob around the sky, and that's from knowing all the tricks of the trade as well as using a telrad and all the mod cons.

If you can, line up the finder during daylight the first time, that should make it much easier, as a tree or light pole wont be trying to move out of view while the earth keeps turning!

[Liz]

Hang in there Henry .... as Jacquie has said 'patience patience patience'.
Many people have problems and frustrations when starting out, and am with Jacquie again in saying I can still have problems finding or aligning objects.
A 12" Dob!!! Wonderful purchase, and am sure you will be proficient in a week or 2.
Are there any local astronomy clubs out your way?? They are usually a great help too. :)

[erick]

You'll get there Henry, keep going.

Yes, align the finderscope at day time on as distant a terrestrial object as you can.

Is it a right angle or straight-through finderscope?

Do you have to wear glasses at the eyepiece? Experiment and see how a focussed star looks without glasses. Much easier if you can observe without glasses.

But then, if your eyes are like mine, if you look up at the sky, it is all a blur! So you need to wear glasses to look at the sky and, I recommend, through the finderscope. So take some time to adjust the finderscope focus so that it is set for you wearing your glasses. Ask if you need some instructions on how to do this. If you have a straight-through finderscope, you can learn the trick of keeping both eyes open which helps getting a bright star/planet into the field of view of the finderscope. I can describe this for you as well, if you want.

Yes, wait for the Moon to come back to the evening sky (unless you are impatient - it's in the sky early morning now). It is the easiest object in the sky to try and find. Usually because, when you get close, you can see the glow off to one side of the view and can chase it down.

If you get the finderscope aligned during the day, then you are probably OK on stars. Sometimes, if you are setting it on a close terrestrial object, parallax means the distant sky is at a slightly different alignment, so a tweak is needed.

Occasionally, the finderscope dove-tail mount may not be pointing correctly and you may find that you cannot get the finderscope aligned, even at maximum adjustment. Then it is a matter of screwdriver and spanner/pliers to loosen and move the mount. Don't do this unless the tube is horizontal. Falling pliers and primary mirror don't mix!

Now, I'm just down the road (well 3 hrs!) so can help sometime if we can plan ahead. You might like to bring it to Snake Valley one evening so we can really try it out in dark skies.

Let us know how you go.

Eric :)

[sally1jack]

Hi Henry,
From one newbie to another apart from patients & all the other exellent advice already given, i would try & find a club or a gathering close to you, even if you have to travel a little way the hands on advice that will be gladly given will be gold, best of luck & keep going :thumbsup:
Phil

[jjjnettie]

We've all been there Henry.
Keep on asking those questions. It's the best way to fast track your way to proficiency.:)

[Robh]

Henry,
Just another thought. When you bought the telescope had the collimation been checked? Do you have a laser collimator?
Have patience, you will sort it all out in time. As the others say here, if you can get together with some more experienced users in your area, they can give you practical advice.
:astron:

Regards Rob

[Paddy]

Ditto to the above advice about aligning in daytime. Once your finderscope is aligned it won't be so much of an issue. You may ultimately find that a Telrad will be a big help if your finder is a magnified one and not a red light pointer. I find that a telrad (or Rigel quickfind) makes finding things a lot easier (although I still often use the magnified finder as well) and at about $70 is a fair bit cheaper than an Argo Navis and very easy to set up.

[ngcles]

Hi Henry,

I'll add my ditto too to the others above. There are quite a few on this forum and elsewhere who have had a frustrating first night but still succeeded in the end. Keep at it and follow the above advice particularly about aligning the finder in daylight on a non-moving object like a distant telegraph pole -- much, much easier :thumbsup:.

And remember this: using a telescope is a little bit like learning to play a musical instrument -- nobody realistically expects to pick up a guitar etc and play like a master first time. The skills you will need to find and observe things are learned with practice -- in truth it is quicker and easier than a musical instrument but a similar sort-of thing.

Keep trying!


Best,

Les D

[BerrieK]

Hi Henry,

ditto to all of the above!

As a newby myself I can clearly remember my first night out with my scope - the frustrations almost outweighed the wow factor of seieng anything. So I just slewed about manually looking at things which for me was enough for that time.

Stick with it - the advice you will get from all the knowledgable people here on IIS is invaluable and friendly.

Oh and after similar probs with alignment of MY finderscope on my first night I aligned it during the day. Then to be truthful I gave up on it (as it turned out that it needed to be shimmed which I was too lazy to do) and bought a lovely red dot finder which for me personally, once aligned with the OTA, I have found great.

Good luck, keep on smiling :D

Kerrie

[Lyinxz]

Henry, there is one word that will solve your problem once and for all.

Telrad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!


On my 10" SW dob, the finderscope is adjusted by playing with the top two bolts that sit on top of the bracket that holds the finderscope up.

good luck with it all, I'l tell you what though,one of the best things ive bought is a telrad! :thumbsup:

[Chillie]

Sorry guys and ladies for taking so long to reply. Monday I had a slack attack. I checked the snake forum but didn't log on here. Yesterday I couldn't get a signal on my Next-G USB device, so I couldn't get on to the internet.

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement.



I have an 8 X 50 straight-through finderscope. Can you get a right angled adapter for it? It would make it easier when viewing a target that is high in the sky.

I haven't focused the finerscope yet but I know how to do that. I found that it was clearer without my glasses when looking through the finderscope and clearer looking though the main scope with my glasses. I find that it is hard to get my eye in the right spot for when looking through the finderscope. That is why I asked about getting a right angled adapter for it.

The finderscope dove-tail mount does look slightly out of alignment, but I'll see if I can get the finderscope aligned first.

I thought I'd try and align the finderscope yesterday. I founf a good spot in the back yard where I could see a "stink pipe" on a house across the other side of the park. Great, I thought until I tilted the OTA down. My side fence got in the road. :( I didn't allow for the low pivot point of the Dob (something that non-Dobsonian owners would know about ;)).

I have been researching the Telrad. This link is the best I've found to explain how it works:

http://www.backyard-astro.com/equipment/accessories/telrad/telrad.html

[Chillie]

Rob,

The collimation has not been checked properly. I did buy a laser collimator at the same time that I bought the telescope. Even with both screws done up tight, it still wobbles about in the eyepiece mount. When it is resting, the red dot is between 0.5" and 1" from the centre circle on the primary. But by wobbling it I can get the dot in the circle.

I will worry about that later. I want to get the finderscope aligned first.

[leinad]

Keep at it Henry,
Patience, patience as many have said. Down the track you'll look back and laugh and wonder how you struggled when it was all so easy.

As others already mentioned. If you need to align the finderscope to the tube at night. Start with a very bright star first and center the star in the finderscope, then through the eyepiece move the scope arounf a little bit, and you should find the very bright star easily(I hope). Then go back to the finderscope keeping both eyes open and adjust the finderscope screw(2 of them) to align the finderscope centered to the star.
The sky will move slightly, so you may not be 100% aligned finderscope-tube, though once you've nailed it you'll be able to do it nice and quick each session.

A right angle finder might become more frustrating than its worth to start with, as the current straight-through finder gives you a line of sight to where you want to look. You're right on the money about high objects with the straight-through. Doesnt take long before your neck and body start hurting.

Telrads are very simple to use, and save yuo the hassle of leaning over to look through the finderscope, though the finderscope has maginification so it will better assist in finding an object or starhopping compared to the Telrad.

Think of a gunners sight with no magnification. hitting the target would much much harder.

Dont worry about the finderscope bracket not sitting flush in its seat when you tighten the bracket seat screw, the adjustments screws are there to compensate in aligning the finderscope.

Keep at it, and have patience, the night skies are always there, depending on the weather of course.

Hopefully theres many objects to align during the day, eg, a tree branch that stands out, the top of the roof, anything that stands out easily that you'll be able to recognise with ease with a little movement of the main scope.

:thumbsup:

[Chillie]

I have finally had some success. I was able to get the finder scope aligned today on some trees a fair distance from my house. I don't know haw far away they are but I live in town and the tree are out of town.



Eric, The finder scope dove-tail mount looks like it isn't pointing correctly but I was able to get it aligned with 1/2 to 1 turn of the horizontal adjusting screw to spare.

I had some great views of the moon late this afternoon and was ready for Saturn but the cloud came over. :cloudy:I relocated to get a view of M42 but the cloud came over that as well.:cloudy:

The moon was fun but hard to get. It was hiding behind a tree for a while. When I got a better view, I aligned the finder scope on that using a 25mm eyepiece. I was that impressed with the views of the craters, I grabbed the 10mm eyepiece. Where's the moon gone? What's this whitish blur? The sky should be blue! Hang on! That is the moon! Refocus! :eyepop:WOW!:eyepop: Now the moon is too big for FOV. I'll leave the 2x Barlow for the planets.:thumbsup: I have not looked at the moon through the scope at night so have not had to use my moon filter yet.

I did final alignment of the finder scope on a bright star that was poking between the clouds.

I'm looking forward to my next viewing session.:astron:

[acropolite]

Henry, forget about too much magnification to start with (you're on the right track removing the barlow), start with your largest EP (25mm?) and enjoy the wonderful wide field views. You'll also find it easier to locate a target with less magnification. Once you have the hang of it and if the seeing conditions are good then step down to a smaller EP.

[dpastern]

Agreed.

Henry, I suspect that most of us have been through exactly the same problem, at least I have.

Once you get the finderscope aligned with the main OTA you'll be fine. Keep at it.

Dave

[Chillie]

I only have the EP's that came with the scope (10mm & 25mm) plus a 2x Barlow. Sometimes I don't think the 25mm is wide enough but it will have to do for now.