Your honest opinions please.

[TidaLpHasE]

Could anyone offer me their honest opinion on this dob mirror?

It is a replacement for a previous sub standard one supplied with my scope.

Should this be the norm with GS mirrors or is it lacking that new standard that i expect?

By all means i could be just way too fussy and particular, but without years of looking through an ep to accumulate the knowledge one needs to make this call, i am in need of advice from those that have.

All opinions greatly appreciated.

[Lee]

I doubt a photo of the mirror will help ascertain its quality mate.... I'm pretty sure the worst spherical el-cheapo and the finest zillionth wave parabolic would look the same in a photo.... I think you will need to gaze through it, hang on - its a mirror - gaze at it and see what you think.... maybe bring it to a group observing session for opinions....

[iceman]

It looks fine, is that just dust? You'll always get dust and crud on your mirror. It's your job to clean it sometimes.

[Dennis]

Hi Trevor

For a new telescope and/or mirror, I would not expect to see so many "marks". They appear to be dust spots (scattered over the surface) and finger prints (around the edge).

These in themselves may not detract from the otpical quality, but if you paid for a new mirror you deserve to get a clean one with fewer surface markings.

I cannot comment on the optical quality (figure).

Cheers

Dennis

[slice of heaven]

I'd expect a new mirror to be in pristine condition with no marks at all.
The dust is not a problem, every open ended newt will collect dust on the mirror sooner or later.
In the first pic it looks like the mirror has been wiped with a contaminated rag as the smears have a direction to them. I'd be asking myself why the smears are there.
Did they send you a replacement OT or just the mirror or did they replace the mirror in the OT.

[wavelandscott]

It looks like it might need a clean to get the dust etc. off...an open tube newt will always collect dust and such and will need an occasional clean...

Maybe I am not fussy enough and others may jump in and comment but I do not get too wound up or worried about a bit of dust or an occasional smudge...I don't think it makes much difference on the views...at least to my eyes...and that is why I have yet to clean any of my mirrors...

Remember that the relfectors of old used "shiny metal" as their mirrors and so even a "filthy, dusty, gunky" mirror will provide incredible views comparatively speaking...

I would only be concerned if there was a "gash" that cut through the coatings...I see a little dirt on the mirror but not big scratches...

I'd get that mirror out under the night shy and get some viewing time under your belt...

That is my 2 cents worth...

[TidaLpHasE]

Thanks for the replies, the mirror was replaced in the returned ota, and fitted and collimated by the supplier.

My concern isn't really with the optical quality of the mirror as such, but the condition of it.

I know that dust is not a problem at all, even a fairly large amount, but the wipe marks and definately the fingerprints is what i am concerned about.

And as posted here, i would also expect a new mirror to be in pristine condition.

I am just wondering are all gs mirrors like this, and not noticed way down inside the tube, if looked through straight on the mirror looks immaculate, but move the tube around toward a light, theses marks appear from nowhere.

[gaa_ian]

I would not be overly concerned myself.
I have had my mirror out & cleaned several times now.
Minor blemishes do not seem to greatly effect the performance of the scope.
I only clean my primary when it gets heavily coated in dust or salt spray (coastal viewing).
Dirty eyepieces will have far more effect on your viewing pleasure
Enjoy !

[TidaLpHasE]

I would love to enjoy, but these things called clouds, (ooops dirty word), are hanging around this weekend, and oh that's right the courier sent my base on a country run:doh:, so i won't be able to set up till they send it next week:(

Thanks for all the advice.

[TidaLpHasE]

Found some good info on cn, about cleaning mirrors.

It has some good links and very useful info, hope it's helpful to those contemplating giving their mirror a bath:thumbsup:.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/18874/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1

[asimov]

Perhaps I'm overly fussy, but I would have sent it back >IMHO<

[rumples riot]

Yeah send it back for cleaning. If the mirror is not clean then this makes your pleasure of its use lessened.

[acropolite]

I would have thought, given the adverse comment generated in this forum, that the retailer would have made every effort to ensure that the replacement mirror was both spotless and flawless. Personally, I would be cleaning the mirror, (after researching the least invasive method) to ensure the dust and smears aren't disguising any defects. I have also read that fingerprints can leave permanent damage to coatings (at least the meade UHTC coatings) if left for more than a few days, although they may not affect the coatings on your particular mirror.

[janoskiss]

Just another thing to add. Fingerprints are not easy to clean off the mirror. It is expensive, because you need quite a lot of isopropyl alcohol which is not cheap, and time consuming because you likely need to repeat the soaking and wiping several times. And usually you can't tell if the marks are gone until the mirror is dry. It is a real PITA, and you'd want to dedicate most of a whole Sunday afternoon to the task.

Also on mirror cleaning, there are lots of howtos around, with lots of conflicting info re what to use; e.g., some say dishwashing detergent will ruin your mirror for ever others say its ok, same story for cleaning with wipes/cotton balls or never-ever wipe just soak-rinse-dry repeatedly, etc. Your best bet is to not listen to any specific advice on forums and info on other amateur sites, but get some official documentation from a reputable manufacturer.

[gaa_ian]

Bintel are starting to look pretty good Eh !
They are prepared to send their Tech's to the USA for training, this shows a high degree of professionalism.
Warehouse direct is one thing (best price) a full service professional retailer (who gives discounts for club purchaces) is quite another.
I use both, but I know what to expect from each too !
IMHO

[BC]

Tidal,

I reckon at this point you should accept that you got a good scope for a good price (with a lot of hassle). You can make good from here with the good advice from this forum, but yes, future purchacers might do well to peruse your tale. My mirror from Bintel was absolutely spotless and crystal clear...but I paid more.

[Rastis]

Hi Chaps,
Does Bintel give discounts to members?

[iceman]

Not that i'm aware of :)

But they do get a lot of forum members coming through, so it can't hurt to say g'day and mention you were recommended by the forum and i'm sure they'll look after you.

Some people have managed to get discounts at Bintel, but I think it depends what you're buying. Others may share their experiences.

[RB]

The Guys at Bintel have always looked after me.
Don and Michael C. are always great for advice and very helpful.
Mike Smith is great to have a yarn to, (could't get any answers out of him for the IIS competition though :sad: )

I've even managed to get a smile out of Lil' once or twice. :whistle: I know she loves me deep down.

I always look forward to dropping in.
Mention my name and I'm sure they'll still look after you anyway.

:D

[ving]

the markings wont change noticably the view you get. If you decide to go back with your complaint, rather than asking for a new mirror ask them to clean your existing one. If you ask for a new mirror you may well get the same finger print problem again.
theres nothing wrong (as far as i can tell) with the mirror it's self so just get them to clean it.
:D
and for cying out loud get rid of these clouds so i can get some viewing in!!! ;)
:poke:

[janoskiss]

Are you nuts, David? :scared: Would you really want these people anywhere near your mirror again?

All that aluminium takes quite a lot of scrubbing to clean up properly. Even if the cleaning is covered by warranty, you might still end up having to pay for all the steel wool they'd need! :eyepop:

[ving]

I think not steve, I'd want it warranty covered an I'd want it done properly. and if they wreck it... wel its thier problem! :)
I believe the method used these days is not steel wool but sand blasting for cleaning anyhow ;)

[TidaLpHasE]

:scared:Steel wool and sandblasting the mirror????

I thought you only did that with ep's and new camera lenses:poke:

I am waiting for a reply, so not to sure what will be the outcome, i'm definately over these dramas with this scope, can't wait to get some good viewing in even if it's with the big binno's.

Thanks again for all your opinions.

[janoskiss]

Let us know what sort of a reply you get but yes, go easy on the steel wool and the sandblasting. :lol: :D

[RAJAH235]

Trevor. Sorry for coming in late, but on enlarging the left pic/view, I can see what appears to be a 'SCRATCH' in the lower left! (your choice what to do here!). The rest appears to be a lot of dust etc. etc....
The fingermarks & smearing need to be removed asap.
Contrary to Steve,(sorry Steve), I would remove the mirror, clean with lots of 'cellulose free' cotton buds & dishwashing liquid in fairly warm water. Have a squeeze bottle handy & a good supply of warm distilled water. I use a 'puffer brush' to aid with moving/removing the water droplets.
You may have to do this 2 or 3 times.
Do not apply any great pressure to the cotton buds tho. & only use once. Do not rotate them, otherwise the oil off your hands will be deposited on the mirror & you'll have to do it all again.
HTH. :D L.
ps. Check the 'Scratch'. If it is one, then send it back with pics. L.

[TidaLpHasE]

Yes it is a scratch, i thought the smudges and fingerprints would be worse, and i would seem fussy to mention it.

I will just send it back for a refund, it's a shame that it has come to this, as i am not happy at all with the quality, and being my first ever scope that feeling of joy is lost on this deal.

I would also like to appologise to Mike if this and the other thread has created any negative feedback to this site.

[iceman]

No need to apologise to me Trev, you've done nothing wrong.

It's a shame that you haven't been able to get a clean mirror, even 2nd time around. After the dramas of the first shipment, I would've expected them to at least look at the second mirror before sending it out.

Get your money back and take it elsewhere. You will be satisfied with the views through a 12" GSO dob, once you get a non-scratched one in your possession!

Are you coming to the starcamp?

[TidaLpHasE]

I will try to make it to Snake Valley, with or without a scope. I hope i will have one by then so i can get some hands on tips and opinions from all the pro's:thumbsup:

[square_peg114GT]

I'd be concerned, too! A new mirror shouldn't have those things and there's a good chance that the wipemarks have damaged the coatings. I'd take it back. Let the retailer clean it. If the marks ALL go away then accept the mirror. My guess is that the wipe marks will leave minute, but visible scratches on the surface.

[ballaratdragons]

Trevor, try ringing the other Sydney shop and telling them what has happened (even the replacement is a mess) and see how they are prepared to help you (if you can get a refund). Let them know the history of the drama is in here to read if they want to have a look. They may give you a really good deal to get you away from Andrews.

Also, I hope you do make it up to the Camp. If you don't have a scope by then there will be plenty there to use. :thumbsup:

[TidaLpHasE]

:thumbsup:Thanks guys, the scope is being returned for a full refund, so i will be shopping around for another one soon.

[asimov]

That's good Tidal...I'm relieved to hear it. Good luck with the NEXT one!

[TidaLpHasE]

Well i have my full refund and back in the market for a new scope.
I am getting an 80ED on an EQ6 :cool:

Lee will be taking my mirror with him to GS in Taiwan and looking for the cause of the quality issue.

This should avoid any mirrors in the future looking like this, and can only be a good thing for all that purchase these scopes:thumbsup:

[davidpretorius]

well done mate, in time for star camp????

[Starkler]

Im glad its all worked out in the end.