Advice please on cheap scope

[june]

Hi guys, some of you might remember me from last year, I was about to purchase our first scope a Celestron C6 SGT for christmas, it all went horribly wrong for us as I lost my job and thought OK, well hubby has had to sell his motorbike so I'm going to have to wait a bit longer for that telescope.

I'm just starting back at work and I'm just so desperate for a telescope, I've been saving hard, no new shoes, clothes etc just the bare essentials, everytime I get out there with our son I look up and wish and beg for money to fall from the sky...:screwy::rofl:

Anyway, I've been on Andrew Communications punishing myself, now I have my eye on the skywatchers 114 x 900 EQ2 reflector and 130 x 900 EQ2 as they are cheap and even the guan sheng's GS-500 6", these scopes are around our price range at the moment. Thats right and Andrews also have the same Guan Sheng above for $349 complete package with a SV1 eq mount. What is a SV1???:shrug:

I look at the sky every night and dream of standing out there with a scope, I have decided that a good cheap one for my family will do us until I really get into it. I don't want to spend too much as our kids are small at the moment 6, 3 and 2 are their ages and I want them to enjoy it and not have us say to them no don't touch that and this because it cost us an arm and a leg...:lol:

I think I had too much money last year and had to try and spend it on the C6-SGT, I actually cried for the whole christmas and told my family they were tears of joy:rofl:, well I have my health and this was a blessing in disguise, I've become more responsible and a bit of a tight you know what....:lol:.

Thank you so much guys and look forward to your advice, have a fantastic and safe week and easter break to your all fingers crossed I'll be looking deep into space by then :Dcheers all

[jjjnettie]

Hi June,
I know full well what you are going through at the moment.
Saving very hard indeed for that first scope.
I'd like to advise against a scope on an EQ mount.
A Dobsonian mounted scope would be perfect. It's a very simple design, so simple that your 6yr old will be using it in no time.
You would probably be quite happy with a 6" $349 or an 8" $399 size mirror.
Available at Andrews http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm
They're great value for money.

[[1ponders]]

Ditto on Jeanette's comments. Don't get the EQ, it's too small a mount for the scope. A dobs the way to go, and if later you want an EQ mount you can put the dob on a mount. :thumbsup:

[toryglen-boy]

+1

advice wont come any better than that

8" seems to be the sweet spot for value as it where, and an 8" dob with give you a lifetime of spectacular views, and will grow with you.

;)

[omnivorr]

:welcome: You have already displayed the patience and endurance that will stand you well with this hobby ! ;)

You will receive a range of advice now, some conflicting.. but you seem to know yourself and your own needs and wants well enuff to sort your way thru it .

I have a few beginner scopes, being one to try for myself before accepting others opinions :screwy::doh::whistle::D ..so here's my take on some...

Dob.. cheap and easy, but needs mechanical improvments, and maintenance, ..that can be a chore if you're not that way inclined.. but absolutely the most for your $ in the whole range of visual... needs some study to learn your way around... and here the "binoculars first" advice chimes in... not without merit, but limited to low magnification wide views.

The smaller EQ reflectors I have no direct experience, but would get the 130 'P' version.. if I went that way.. just above/borderline frustrating "toy" from what I can gather. I do have a GSO-500 , and it is a mighty lil scope!!
It's not "The Big Time" but a competent imaging platform for lunar and planetary beginners, and introduces the newcomer to 'celestial mechanics' in a forgivingly easy package... It does have the same 'collimation' requirement as a Dob, being Newtonian... and this brings me to ask if there's any reason you haven't included a small refractor in your deliberations ?

With such young children, I could imagine an EQ mounted Newt' might not be as easy as a Dob'.. or maybe not :shrug: Good Luck with your choices!! I'm sure you will enjoy whichever you decide to go with ;)

[erick]

.....and you are in Melbourne, June. Lots of friendly IIS folks around to help you get going. You may wish to drop into a couple of the specialist shops and ask advice. But keep your money in your wallet. Come back and ask our opinion first, of their suggestions/prices.

There is Bintel in Camberwell at 519 Burke Road VIC, Phone 9822 0033

and York Optical in the City at 114 Flinders St, Phone 9654 3938

Eric :)

[Lismore Bloke]

There is a lot to be said for contacting an astronomy club near where you live. It will give you the chance to try out a variety of scopes of all types, sizes and budgets. Nothing like hand on experience.

Listing of clubs here:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/clublistings.html

[Starkler]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

To elaborate, buying an eq mounted scope at the budget price end is bad news. They are flimsy, wobbly and an exercise in frustration.

With a dob the lions share of the $ is going into the telescope itself, rather than a wobbly mount.

[norm]

:welcome:June to the forum.

As most people have said, if you can squeeze the budget, go for the 8" dob. I borrowed a mates for a couple of weeks and they're dead simple to use. From that you'll get value for money and great views of the moon, planets and bright star clusters - you and the kids wont me disappointed.

Further to that you'll need to get some basic equipment, eg red torch, planisphere, collimating tool. Better still google Stellarium and download (its free). Helps you get your bearings around the night sky.

Good luck and let us know what you get:thumbsup::)

[PCH]

Yep,

what they said !

I'd advise against an eq mount - especially a cheap one, which comes with not only the difficulties of an eq mount, but also the frustrations of a wobbly eq mount.

Best way to go imho would be a pair of giant binocs with stand for about $450 all up from www.aoe.com.au, or the 8" dob thats already been mentioned from Andrews or Bintel etc.

Another benefit would be that both these items will withstand a bit of pulling and prodding by the kids :), whereas the wobbletronic will definitely withstand said prodding and poking less well ;)

And welcome (again) to IIS.

[june]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:Thanx a bunch guys, I have taken in everyone's advice and thought about this, I was looking at the Skywatcher 70 x 900 EQ1 but after reading some of your comments, I do have to agree with the Dob....:D.

I didn't really take into consideration how much of a pain it would be with an EQ mount especially with kids. I agree with the 8' Dob, I'm just a bit confused on which brand to purchase, does it really matter?????

The Meade's are just so expensive but the Guan Sheng is more my price range. Although I live in Melbourne, I know for a fact that I will be purchasing from Andrews as he is cheaper and I found his site more informative and when I was going to purchase the C6-SGT they were the most helpful...its all about customer service isn't it:whistle::whistle::whistle:

I just wanted to say :thanks::thanks::thanks:everyone for your feedback and knowledge it has been much appreciated, now its some major sucking up to the hubby for some extra's so that I can pick up some more cash for maybe some extra's like eyepiece's:lol2:maybe if I take him down the motorbike shop and drop my bit of news there. Well, I will keep you all posted on my outcome...cheers all and have a safe easter break...take care and keep safe....cheers all:hi:

[june]

Hey Norm, thanx for the welcome, yep, going to go with the 8' Dob have to squeeze that budget but will get there....hehehe, downloading stellarium now, thanx for your help

[june]

Thanx Jeanette for talking some sense into me...LOL, I I'm going to purchase the 8' Dob, I think that would be more suitable for myself and the family and $$$$$ wise it would be more worthwhile especially after hearing everyone's advice...thanx a bunch and have a safe one...cheers

[june]

thank you to everyone for sharing your wealth of knowledge..cheers

[jjjnettie]

You're most welcome June.
Please keep us posted about your purchase. We definitely need more of the fairer sex on this forum.

[Starkler]

GSO or Skywatcher/Saxon. Theres not much to separate them and if money is tight just go for the best price.

[stephenb]

Welcome June,

All sound advice. Best of luck with your purchase and keep up informed on your progress.

[Coen]

As the saying goes, aperture rules but then again so does ones budget.

Thought I'd share my experience: I have a soon to be 14 & 12 yr old and a 9 yr old. The soon to be 12 yr old is the most interested although the 14 yr old will have a peek especially at open clusters.

I have been interested in astronomy for close to 30 years (sad how quick that number comes) but budget is what budget is when it comes to kids and priorities. Anyway recently bought the 70x900 refractor on the EQ1 after my 60mm refractor finally died after 25+ years of service. Yes the mount is not set in concrete stable but it works for the price. Assuming you know how to set it up it tracks well enough to get the power up when the conditions suit.

My two oldest kids have rapidly learnt how to use it (i.e. it did not take much, unlock these two nuts, swing around to what you want to look at and re-tighten, the reason for the at first odd way is to compensate for the Earth's rotation etc.). In particular my 12 yr old is very adept at zipping around the sky and loves looking at globular clusters. The optics on the scope are fine and I get lovely views of clusters, double stars and the brighter nebulae such as M42, Eta Carina, M8, M20, M16 etc. I've also bagged a number of the brighter galaxies such as NGC5128 (can see the dust lane with patience and conditions suiting), NGC253, M65, M66 etc. Basically pretty much all of the Messier objects are doable (assuming the right latitude). All of this from outer suburbia. The scope is also fine for bagging about 5 of Saturn's moons and watching the shadow transits of Jupiter's principle four moons (Io is a challenge). It is also straight forward to safely project the Sun onto white paper to check for spots (boring at the moment). I have also managed to introduce many new people various nice objects as the scope is readily portable (can lift with one hand and carry around). The telescope also helps with training yourself to observe and see rather than a quick glance and move on.

So get as big an aperture as you can afford (I'd love to get an 8 inch reflector and will do so one day but on an EQ mount - that is just me) as you will get better views but don't dismiss the smaller scopes as cheaper introductions to the hobby as the optics these days on brands such as Skywatcher are more than reasonable.

Above all enjoy and check out scopes at astronomy clubs open nights to give you a sense for how big they are and how they work.

[dannat]

did you check Bintel in camberwell, they have 50 bucks off their small dobs and you would save on postage if you could get there

[june]

Hi Daniel

thanx for that, yes I checked bintel out and still too expensive for me Andrews is still cheaper with bigger aperture unless someone on IIC is selling an 8' Dob:rofl:on the cheap.:screwy:but thanx for the info though, with the rain and thunder coming that will buy me some yearning time..hahahaha....well cheers matey and have a safe one ;)

[june]

Hey Coen, I hear you matey an 8' on an EQ mount :thumbsup:yes well that just sounds like a lovely option. One day...but kids and mortgage do come first and I'll get there eventually. I'm looking at an 8' Dob and with the weather taking a bad turn here in Melbourne that will buy me some time, I can't wait, I'm so excitied I feel like a little kid...hahahahaha. Well you and the :family2:have a safe and fantastic easter break, thunder is cracking down...best sign off now...cheers matey:hi:

[erick]

If you ever decide you want to move the tube unit from the dob mount to an EQ mount, that can be done without much difficulty (just some $s!)

[june]

:2thumbs:I totally agree with you there, I've always loved astronomy just never crossed my mind to purchase a scope until our eldest son took interest in astronomy, he asked one day why we didn't have a telescope to look into space:rofl:I was going to purchase us a national geo one and then found IIC....it has been a love affair to blossom now:lol:ooohhh better get off now, storms are getting louder and our animals are getting :scared:plus I don't want to get sparked in the middle of typying....hehehehe, well take it easy and cheerio

[june]

:lol:yes well it always comes down to the $$$ doesn't it...hahahaha. My question..which probably sounds pretty stupid because I can't see it being possible but can you mount a collapsible Dob onto an EQ and which is better tube or collapsible?

[Coen]

Yes you can mount collapse-able onto EQ if you have the skills and the dollars - is it worth it: probably not. The collapse dob is designed that way for portability.

An alternative to an EQ mount for the dob is a wedge-plate underneath. There are some fancy ones around or you can make it yourself (essentially fits under the base of the dob and puts it at the right angle for your latitude). I assume it works better at higher latitudes than lower.

[erick]

Solid tube - unless you have a desperate problem with storage space in house/garage and transport space in car!

Don't try to mount a collapsible (truss or strut) on an EQ mount. As Coen suggests, an equatorial table would give you tracking for a dob so you can follow the movement of the stars. But it's not a cheap option. I see one listed for US$615 plus shipping from USA :(

My humble views.................:)

[june]

:rofl::rofl:Finally made my first payment on our first Telescope..WOOHOOO!!!!! It is almost another year and I'm sick and tired of procrastinating about it, I've been on here enough and asked for all the advice I can get and researched as much as I can.

I picked myself up and pulled myself out of the rut and would like to thank you all so much for your sound advice and knowledge on this matter:thanx::thanx::thanx:.

I've gone for the Guan Sheng 8' Super Deluxe, they have a pretty good package going at the moment at Andrews Communication and I thought with my freelance money I can make payments and have it in time for christmas, so thats covered. I'm so excitied and happy I waited as I think I've made a wise decision in my purchase.

Now I'm a real novice in this department so I barely know the basics, I did have my partners friend say that if would be no good in our backyard as it has too much light pollution, so I said to my partner, well until I speak to the experts then I'll wait to make that decision.

I know, I'm rambling, anyway, I spoke to a lovely chap at Andrews named Luke and he said that I could always get filters as I get into it, now in my brain kicked in the expensive part of it all but I figured well, we don't go out, we very really eat out, I've given up smoking and everything else so SOUNDS GOOD TO ME!!!!!!:D:D:D:D

So I would be happy and open to anyone with any advice and knowledge about where I can take it from here, plus I know bugger all so it will be good to go back to MR Smarty Pants (Partners mate) and tell him well I know for a fact, this, this and that :P :P :P because my mates at IIS told me :lol: :lol: :lol:

[erick]

We'll show Mr Smarty Pants! :D Even with light pollution around, there are things you can see through the 8" scope that will be fantastic. Detail on the Moon, Jupiter and Saturn. Phases of Venus. Lovely open star clusters and double stars. And, with care and persistence, you can pull in some globular clusters and nebulae!

[june]

:) thank you Erik I knew I could rely on the IIS community for help:D, I just can't wait to get it in my hands and have a go, so in the meantime I'm go to go through the site and read up some more and ask more questions so that when our Dob arrives I at least have some clue as to what is going on:lol: