GS or Saxon 10' DOB

[Eardrum73]

HI there,

I want to ask Dob users out there about your dobs. I am considering what type of scope to get and the 10' or 12' dob has been included as an option.

The GS or Bintel Dob has springs on the side instead of tension handles. To me tension handles (Starhopper, Saxon) sounds easier for mobility, you simply pick the dob up with both hands by the handle and lift it out to your backyard.

1)But how do you do it with a GS dob with springs on the side? Do you simply lift it by the side platforms? (this sounds rather hard and strenous to me, especially for someone with a bad back.) :scared2:

2)How much more can I see with the 12' dob vs a 10' dob? will I see more aberrations with a larger apeture dob as well? :confuse2:
Does a larger apeture dob take longer to cool down? (reach ambient temperature)

3)How easy is it to nudge and find objects with a dob? Has there every been a case where a nudge was "too much" and the dob lost the object it was focusing on? :rolleyes:

4)Do you ever get fustrated by spending loads of time trying to find something with a dob?

5)Do you think a 12' dob can fit into a Corrolla hatchback? :o


Clear skies

[Starkler]

I own the GS 10 inch dob myself.

1: i use a trolley/hand truck to wheel around my dob in one piece at home. When travelling after removing the springs the ota lifts off the base. Splitting the dob into two pieces makes it much easier to transport. I think dissasembling the Saxn dob will be a bit more of a chore.

2:There will be a small subtle difference in brightness which you may or may not notice, and a big difference in weight and portability.

3:Either of these dobs can be easily improved in relation to their alt-az motions. As standard the motions can be a bit sticky, causing overshooting of the target.

4: Reading charts and starhopping is an acquired skill which just takes a little bit of practise. If you never learn these skills what will you do if your batteries go flat in the field or suffer an equipment malfunction.

5: I doubt it very much. The 10 inch will fit into most medium sized cars.

[ving]

1. dont lift it, get a hand trolley from bunnings ) I think they have handles built into the base tho... well my 8" does.

2. er... can remember numbers exactly but the 12er will let in more light than the 10... noticably.

3. get yourself a map of the sky, learn some constellations and jacks your aunty. there are mods you can do to make the dob move smoother too :)

4. NO! to me its all about the hunt! :) star hopping with the aid of a chart is the way to go (for me).

5. if you lay the seats down it should... measure first tho

[davidpretorius]

Firstly, do you have a laptop that you can take out to the backyard (great for using programs like starry night) and also is your backyard grass or solid like concrete? I have just bought a 44 gallon drum trolley that is 610mm wide, the dob base is 560mm wide. As i have asphalted driveway, i wheel my dob complete out to the driveway. very easy


springs not a problem
this is the best link i know to help, it also show the difference of a still night vs turbulent http://astronomy.trilobytes.com.au/martin-lewicki/jupiterseeing.htm
it takes getting used to, everything is upside down and left is right. after a few nights, you have this down pat. yes sometimes i do bump it especially at high magnification, when i am looking thru the finder. The earth rotates quite quickly so you have to follow the rotation. not a major issue for me
not with the dob no, the only way around it is with a "goto" system. I am in the middle of motorizing my dob so i can tell it where to point, but that is not a negative. The excitement i felt tracking down uranus and neptune for the first time by hopping from star to star was exhilarating. My heart was beating fast, i was holding my breath and i punched the sky when i found it. I would not have had those feelings with a goto system.
check you measurements, bintel or andrews should give you the measurements
Have fun

[janoskiss]

4. Only near zenith. A right-angle finder would help a lot here. You'll want a pair of binos too for wider FOV navigation.

I'm not a big fan of the laptop. Too awkward, bright, needs batteries, can't handle moisture. Prefer planisphere and a charts (in plastic sleeves if need be) and a red torch (LED bike light).

[ving]

if you dont want to lug a laptop around but like your electronic devices there are programs for PDAs too :)

[Eardrum73]

Hey thanks for the links DPretorius. That really gave an idea of how apeture size can make a difference!
At this stage, I don't have the luxury of a laptop to to link it up and my backyard is grassy and very sloping.....

I would like to get a 12' but it may be too large and inconvienient for me I think, I can see from that almost everyone that responded mounts the dobs on a hand trolley.

So IDEALLY a dob should be mounted on a hand trolley.... this would have to be a downer for me as my backyard is full of grassy slopes. Would travelling through rough terain knock the collimation out? (I guess the question is how easy is it for the collimation to go ajar from slopes? - anyone?)

P.S The trill of hunting down a star sounds like fun :)

[ving]

hunting is good! :D
if you get a handtrolley with inflatable wheels (with the presure let down a bit) it should be ok. but if you are going down this particular road then why not the 12"?

[Eardrum73]

I was thinking about that.... But just to lift it out from the house to the trolley in the backyard may be too much in itself...

But a 12 inch sure sounds good!

[ving]

got a shed to store it in?

[davidpretorius]

build a shed!

[Eardrum73]

Shed? err.... no...
sounds like with all the add ons I might as well go for the mead 10 inch or C9.25 with goto? Probably cost the same at the end..... :)

[davidpretorius]

as the base is wood, i would be almost tempted to leave the base in your viewing area and then carry the scope down there and plug in.

the scope tube is not heavy at all. to carry both tube and base together in terms of weight is easy, it is just damn awkward. even if you have a box made up that sits over the base to protect from the elements.

[janoskiss]

You silly dobbers! :P See what you've done! Scaring people with all that nonsense about trolleys, sheds, tyre pumps ...

I have the 8" Dob. It's very easy to move. I have to walk down a flight of stairs with it to get to the back yard and back up the stairs when I bring it in. Given that I can carry the base and OTA (the tube) together, I'm sure I could handle a 10", carrying the base and OTA separately. And I'm neither fit nor strong.

[ving]

ditto steve, ditto! :)
8" is really protable hey :)

[rmcpb]

If you have a dodgey back maybe the 8-10" range is a bit better in the beginning. If you go for the Saxon don't pick it up by the "handles" they are attached to the thin sides and could crease the tube, besides it would be a very awkward way to carry the tube and be a greater strain on your back.

As for moving dobs, pull it apart for anything further than a short walk out the back. Easier on you and less likely that you will have a disaster. The trolley is a good idea around where the terrain is fairly easy going but not for rough stuff. Collimation is easy when you get the hang of it so its not a worry.

I would worry about a 12" in a Corolla!! Cooldown time is longer for each successive size but the use of fans inproves this difference.

Get a Telrad for a dob.

Have fun :)

[davidpretorius]

but what about the shed?

[Eardrum73]

haha .... what a humourous lot you are! :rofl:

If I am to go for a dob I would probably get it from Andrews or Bintel. As these two establishments epitomises the virtues of the dob, and thats inexpensive for its apature size and uncomplicated.

but that would mean i would have go for the ones with the springs on either side, I am not sure if removing the tube is an option.... it looks really tough just to try and put the spings on!!! I don't think I would be able to do it on a regular basis.

It sounds more and more like I have to go for an 8 inch dob.... rats! I was really keen on the larger dobs....wanted the extra apeture size. :confuse3:


The other alternative would be to fork out a small fortune for a Mead 10' or C9.25..... :doh:

[janoskiss]

Quiet you! :P


I've got a 1986 Corolla and I saw a 12" Dob in a scope shop recently. I haven't measured it but I think if I ripped the passenger seat out, and folded the back seat down I think the OTA would fit lengthwise from boot to glovebox. :) Might even squeeze one passenger in behind the driver.

[Eardrum73]

Its interesting that you say that RMCPB...

The first dob I ever say was the one with the handles on either side.... very similar to the Saxon, probablly rebadge.
The shop guy was showing how easy it is to carry and he was picking it up by the handles!!!! Thats why I assumed that that was one of the ways to move the handle style dob.....

A telrad? Whats that? where can I get that?

I think I will have to surf the web for telrad now :)

[davidpretorius]

no no no

the springs are not a hassle at all, they attach to the pivot point on the scope and then when the scope is in the base, you pull the spring down over the other attachment that is on the base. i will take a pic tonight and show you.

not even an issue, so please do not it be the deciding factor between the 8 or 10 or 12.

it is no different to a change in colour!!! simple as that!

[Eardrum73]

The factors that are a consideration for me is the sheer weight and mobility of the dobs vs apeture size.

Isn't it really hard to pull the spring down to the stay on these models though?

As to me it looks like trying to pull a strong spring into place which will requires much strength, and this will indirectly affect the portability of the dob, in terms of disengaging it and moving the mount and the tude seperately. Which will intern be factored into what size dob I will get.... (confusing init?)

BTW what does OTA stand for? I think it means just the telescopic tube only..... but what does the words OTA actually stand for?

[[1ponders]]

Ahhh the 10" or 9.25 on an eq mount may be even more of a pain to use Eardrum. There are more things to pull apart, plus a mount for a 10" scope needs to be fairly substantial. And there are the additional counterweights to consider. Don't get me wrong, I use an eq mount all the time, but its probably heavier and more awkward than a dob.

If you get a 10" meade on an LX200 they are pretty weighty and awkward to move around too especially if you have to carry it up a slope.

Just things to consider

[davidpretorius]

optical tube assembly i think

the springs have a piece of material that is attached to the bottom of the spring, you pull this down with one hand and over the bottom support.

the spring is easy enough to attach and reattach, but strong enough to hold my camera assembly or 2" eyepiece when pointing at the horizon.

honestly, i do not see it as a determining factor. i wil even take a video of it tonight and post it

[Eardrum73]

If I go the SCT way then most likely I would go for the fork mount types instead of the eq mounts. They seem easier to use and ligher... or I hope they are in this case!

Meade is releasing a cheaper version (as oppose to the LX200 series they currently have) and Celestron is releaseing a CGC version which is also SUPPOSE to be easy to use, no weights to dissassemble and lighter... but this would set me back a small fortune which is why I am seriously considering a dob at the moment. :)

[Eardrum73]

thanks David, I shall wait eagerly for the video......

[[1ponders]]

the LX90 and 200 range are definately easier to set up for accurate goto than an eq, imho. I went from EQ to LX200 and back to a bigger EQ (using digital setting circles - Argo Narvis). For ease of use and speed of setup for goto though the LX200 was a dream after I learnt how to drive it. I understand the the LX90s are just as easy. But the dob, albit without goto, is the easiest of all to set up. Relatively lightweight base and tube, plonk them down on the ground, doesn't even have to be particularly level (within reason :) ) and away you go.

[davidpretorius]

sorry, not sure if you have mentioned before, do you have a budget in mind?

[Eardrum73]

In terms of budget no exact figure.. I am keeping an open mind. But after surfing the net and many phone calls later. It seems that my ideal telescope is around 9 to 10 inch, with goto, lightweight and easy to use. Which would set me back around $4000 to $5000 probably more....

Well originally I was thinking of Meade 10' cheap LX or Celestron 9.25' CGC, I find that for apeture size the dobs seems to be the best value around! I am taking about 1/5 of the price!!! (Not to mention that alot of people that have used these GS dobs all nothing but good things to say about it...
I have also read about problems with goto, motors and aligments and such.... which began to shift me towards the dob.

But the main problem I have now with the dob is portablity and if I was to get a trolley for it - storage.

Which is why I need to know all there is to know about dobs and their mobility :)

[davidpretorius]

cool,

I have gone for dob cos i had a budget of around $1500. I love to tinker, program etc.

If I have $5000, i would have gone the whole hog in one go.

I spose you are coming at it differently, you want portability etc.

Where is NSW are you, as I am hoping that like tasmania, you can cross the street and be on the other side of the island. This way you catch up with a few of the guys in person and see them setup etc. there is a new moon coming up at end of month.

[janoskiss]

Yes, the cost of a Dob is not much more than the GST on a similarly sized SCT Goto scope. So you might as well just get one to try out. :D Maybe you'll like it enough not to want an SCT and so can spend the rest of your budget on quality eyepieces and other goodies.

The 8" Dob is easily transportable (in the Corolla) with the OTA in its original box across the back seat and the base in the boot. I expect the 10" would be too in the same way, but you couldn't use the original box. The 12" will need a bit of interior "restyling" to squeeze in. I suppose you could also chuck the 12" OTA on roofracks. :D Just don't be surprised if the ASIO boys come knocking to ask a few questions after you drive around with that bazooka on your car. :rofl:

[Starkler]

If you had $3300 to spend, you could get this 16 incher.
Now check what 16 inches of SCT would cost :P

[janoskiss]

Wow! Where from Geoff?

[Starkler]

http://www.sirius-optics.com.au/used.htm

I have been in contact with the owner and was tempted for a time.

[chunkylad]

Hi Eardrum


Imho, if you're after bang for buck, a large aperture Dob can't be beat!:cool: . Easy to use, easy to star-hop - especially with the aid of a Telrad or Rigel finder. The latest model 12" from Andrews has a right angled finderscope as standard equipmnet also.

My 12" Dob is a breeze to move in and out of my house, or to put into the back of my van. I keep my OTA and base assembled for transport, even while its in the van. No back strain at all. The terrain at our club's observing site, while flat, can be pretty rugged. The trolley ($20 from Supercheap Auto) makes it easy. I'll post a photo for you.

Lee Andrews hinted at a 16" Dob becoming available soon(ish) and selling for around $2.5k.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[davidpretorius]

ok here is the video of my dob

http://www.precons.com/iis/gallery/mydob-20050915_001.wmv

1/2 meg

or avi version

http://www.precons.com/iis/gallery/mydob-20050915_001.avi

300 k

i am 180cm tall (5 foot 10 1/2) and 85 kg, so you can get a feel for height of the unit in the last little section

[Eardrum73]

Hey! Thanks for that DavidPretorius, thanks for talking the time to film that. The spring tention looks real easy to unlatch, I am assuming that it is just as easy to latch the spring back on.

[davidpretorius]

yes nice and easy, but not so loose that the scope tips down when you get near the horizon. one of the parts of the video had my 2" eyepiece (heavy) in and it must be aprox 5 degrees roughly and it is staying in place. Any lower and it will tip.

There is not much use viewing things at the horizon as there is too much atmosphere to look thru!

[Eardrum73]

I would dearly love a 16' dob, think of the images we could see....
but mobility wise it would be a nightmare for me I think (just check out Starkler's pic) as it is I am already considering downgrading from a larger dob (12' or 10') to a smaller one just for mobility reasons.

Chunkylad, thanks for the photos, I like the idea of the dob on the trolley, however that would still require lifting on my part from the house to the backyard... so I will have to factor that bit in to my decision as well.

What is a telrad and Rigel finder?

Incidentally, for those that have bought from Andrews, what is the standard inclusions in Andrews Dobs? I have heard that he includes a moon filter and 4 color filters is that true?


P.S as for attracting the attention of ASIO with a 12' cannon on the top of my car... I think I may just wear the delivery cost and have it delivered. :wink2:

[davidpretorius]

moon filter is good, but guys from the forums told me not to worry about the other filters.

I would agree, i think for the $99 for the filters set (i think from memory) throw those $ into eyepieces.

You use the eyepieces all the time, so make that side of things really spot on!

i used the moon filter for the first time last night and it was ok. Mars is now very viewable, but whether the extra filters would be worth it i have my doubts

try and get two really good eyepieces say a 10mm and a 30mm. say around at least $50 odd each. also i would recommend the 2" 80 degree ultrawide 30mm (that is in my video)

as for a filter, i would save up and go for a sun filter and a really good nebula filter and thats it for filters. i don't hear guys talk about much else??

[davidpretorius]

thanks eardrum, you were my 1000th post, i feel very happy!

[Eardrum73]

hell yeah! Congradulations on your 1000th post Davidpretorius!

but no, thank you... for all the input and photos.... it sure helped me alot.


Here is the checklist so far:

Springs - check (relatively easy to latch on and off)
Ease of setup - check (just point and look)
Collimation issues - Check (seems ok with bumby/sloping terrain)
Visuals of a 10' v 12' - check (from comparison website)
Cooling down period - check (Probably just leave it outside for 45 min?)
Delivery - check - (will probably get it delivered if going for the 12')
Price - check - (A Dob is the best value for money around)

Mobility & weight - ??? (Still an issue with this one.... lol)

So I think the only real barrier for my decision now is the mobility and weight issue....

[davidpretorius]

yup 1/2 an hour ish, take your scope and ep's out and let them cool espscially your 2" ep's. i do not have a fan on my 10", so it would be even quicker!

also not sure if in the video you saw the cardboard dew shield. i would recommend making one for the finder so the lens does not fog up.

[Eardrum73]

ya, I saw the cardboard dewshield.... so for the finderscope only right? there is no real need for the actual 10' or 12' tube itself?

[davidpretorius]

just the finder as the lens is very exposed. In tassie weather , where the moisture was forming ice on the outside of the scope from an all night session, i am yet to need a dew shield for the main tube.

the sct's etc need them due to there being an exposed surface that can fog up.

[asimov]

Hi, mind if I cut in? hehehe! Great video David! Love the finder dew-shield man! I've noticed those GS scopes don't have much over-hang of the main tube past the 45 deg diagonal mirror....ever had your diagonal fog/dew up yet Dave? BTW the whole tube acts as a dew shield for the primary mirror....or so I've read? (logical I guess?) BYE!

[davidpretorius]

no fog on the secondary!

[asimov]

Oh..BTW congrats on the 1000 posts mate! :thumbsup: :D

[davidpretorius]

woo hoo!!!

[Starkler]

1000 posts in 2 and a half months???? :scared2:

It took me about 10 months to reach that milestone

[davidpretorius]

yes, my programming work is sooooo far behind!!!!

[acropolite]

I've got an 8 inch LX90 and they're not exactly light either, not that I'm recommending a dob...:poke:

[davidpretorius]

your setup time was pretty good though phil!!

[Eardrum73]

Hi everyone!:hi:

I finally got my scope! :lol:

I want to say a big thank you to all of you who contributed your ideas, advice and feedback on helping me make my decision. From springs, to star hopping, trolleys and so on - thank you all.

:bowdown:


I went to Andrews today to check out for myself how heavy the 8' and 10' dob could be and the 8 inch seemed ok, while the 10' looked a little heavy but still manageble.... maybe.

However after speaking to Lee and his very helpful assistant - Maggie, I ended up with a 12' GS dob!!!!
I just couldn't resist the and the deal that were offering me!

I have just finished assembling it, and now I think its really abit of a monster to move around, especially given my situation.... it really needs two people to move the thing around - but I am still quite happy with the purchase.

The only thing I am able to use so far are the eyepeices, just remove and put them on easy enough.... but the filters and barlows are something else... where do they go????

Now the challenge for me is to find out how to use the eyepeices, barlows, and filters that came with it.....

But hey, its all in the learning process and I feel great about the "anti artilery canon" I got today! :2thumbs:


P.S I did manage to fit the 12' into a Corrolla hatchback!!!!! (with a little gap opening at the boot, tied it up with rope and it was all cool!) :cool3:

[xrekcor]

If your going to being star hopping, a right angled finder would be rather annoying and almost useless. As you would be facing the tube instead of the sky. With a straight through finder you can easily align the scope without having to turn your head repeatedly. Beside you usually keep both eyes open one eye looking through the finder and the other looking pass the finder directly at the sky.

Regards, CS

[janoskiss]

Well done Eardrum! :clap: It's hard to resist the lure of a BIG scope, isn't it. I'm amazed you squeezed it into the rolla!

Barlow inserts in your focuser, just like normal eyepieces, and then you insert your eyepiece in the Barlow. It increases the magnification (usually by factor of 2) of the eyepiece.

Filters can be screwed onto the back of the eyepieces, but usually you're better off without them.

Good point Rob, about the straight thru finder. I agree, but near zenith the pain in the neck is just too much for me. Ideally I'd like to have both right-angle and straight-thru. :D

[xrekcor]

You should try an EQ mounted Newt sometime, But seriously you would still find the striaght through variety would be the one you use more often even when viewing the zenith. Just give one a try on a scope with no goto and see how long your prepared to put up with it ;)

Just didn't want Eardrum (being new to the hobby) thinking it was a better way to go, as it is more frastrating. Besides I was too late anways. Congrats on your purchase Eardrum, you should have allot of fun with a 12"

regards

[davidpretorius]

well done eardrum, top stuff, did you get the premium with the crayford, what size eyepieces and what type of barlow

you will love it so much you will find a way to sort out the mobility issues

[ballaratdragons]

Cool, another GS 12" Dobbie owner. Congrats brother!

I just posted in your other thread about 1 hour ago suggesting a GS dob, then I found this thread. LOL!

[chunkylad]

Yes, congratulations eardrum!!!! Well done.



Did you get a right angled finderscope, or a straight through? I have a right angled finder, and using it with the Rigel Quickfinder(or a Telrad will do the same job), I have a ball starhopping. imho, it's the best of both worlds.:D

If you get a trolley to move your 'scope, you may want to check out Iceman's trolley setup. It's a bit simpler than mine.http://www.iceinspace.com.au/index.php?id=17,12,0,0,1,0&hashID=c188a51d2cf7374469f84c5530c8 d7f2

Good luck, and have fun learning and using your new baby.:love:

Cheers

[Eardrum73]

hi-hi Everyone!

Wow...The 12' gargantuan water heater is really difficult to move around.... Should have resisted the tempation of the great deal Andrews offered me and gone for a 8' or 10' dob instead. Oh well no point crying over split milk.... (can't blame Andrews though, I pretty much asked for the 12') :D

I got the one with the right angel finderscope.... from the sound of things it may not have been the best .....opps did I err?

Yes i got the premium with the crayford and fan.

It also came with:
4 eyepeices... 40mm, 25mm, 9 mm and 6.5 mm.
1 Barlow - 26mm (just how do I fit the eyepeices in the Barlow?????)
1 Moon Filter
4 Colour filters - Red, Blue, Yellow and Green
1 2005 Astronomy Book/Diary/map
1 Andrews Binoculars!

All for $999, I just couldn't resist!

I got the Eyepieces, Barlow and Filters right in front of me as I am typing this...
I have unscrewed the barlow (the silver metal bit from the back part) and still can't find a place where the eye peices can sit firmly in the barlow.... if I put it in it will just trash around, and I canwhat must I do?

And thanks for the bit about the color filters Janokiss, I just screw it on to the back of the eyepeice. so thats one down!!!

[davidpretorius]

right angles seem to be the go!

one end of the barlow should be 1.25" and fit where the eyepieces go into the focusser

the other end should be were the eyepieces now go. i do not own a barlwo yet, but hopefully there is a grub screw to hold your eyepieces in.

good stuff with the crayford.

actually, do you actually have a barlow, i reckon you simply have a 26mm 2" eyepiece??? i have never heard of a 26mm barlow???? usually 2x or 3x barlow.

[Eardrum73]

Ello again,

I tried out my new scope for the first time tonight and unfortunately my experience with it was rather ordinary - downright dissapointing actually. But I think it more to do with the user the the actual scope itself - or at least I hope so anyway!

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>The finderscope seems to be much clearer than the 12'</o:p><o:p> dob itself !!!!! How can this be? </o:p>
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<o:p>I was using the 40 mm eyepeice and the sky does not look no where near as large or as sharp as the finders scope.</o:p>
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<o:p>Then I tried the 9mm, and 25mm to no avail, just a big blurry haze came up where the stars should be..... </o:p>
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<o:p>And then I fitted the Barlow which also yieded the same massive blur. </o:p>
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<o:p>Right now the best view I could get was from the free Binoculus that came with the deal! </o:p>
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<o:p>I was expecteding closer view of the stars, the scope did not seem to resolve anything close to what a 12' scope should, the best view I got was same as if I was looking at the night sky with my eyes. (with 40mm)</o:p>
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<o:p>Am I doing something wrong?</o:p>
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<o:p>I did leave the scope outside for at leat 45 mins to let it cool down so it can't be the temperature.</o:p>
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<o:p>I check for collimation, and to the best of my knowledge (which ain't great as I am a noob in all this) I "think" its collimated.</o:p>
<o:p>I think its not the collimation anyway, as I think if the collimation is "out" then the objects should "resolve" appear larger... but not clear. The image I was getting was not even large, just same as if I was looking into the sky with my naked eyes.</o:p>
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<o:p>Could it have been the environment? light pollution etc? shouldn't I have been able to see at least a large blur? instead of nothing at all.....</o:p>
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<o:p>Any advice guys? </o:p>
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<o:p>Will try again tommorrow night if there are clear skies, and will let you know how I go......</o:p>
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[Eardrum73]

Oh dear... it must have been the 2' eye piece, Maggie the shop assintant said it was a Barlow... so I took her word for. (given I am a newbie and all.)
She even said that it would double the power of all my eyepieces and proceeded to calculate what half the size of my eyepieces would be. LOL. I don't think she was being deceitful though - like me, all this was probably new to her as well.

[davidpretorius]

if she said it would double then it is a barlow, but still 26mm??

can you take a picture of all your eyepieces together and post to the forum?

also did you try the moon and how were you focussing?

when you were turning the focusser did the stars look like cd's discs?

[Eardrum73]

Would that I could DavidPretorius.... but I don't own a digital camera at the moment :ashamed:

But I think you are right in saying that its an eyepeice. As it really does look exactly like the smaller eyepieces just oversized!! It also printed 26mm -Fully Multi-coated on the surface.

Now I have a 25 and 26 mm eyepeice... LOL, what a joke!

I didn' try to look at the moon for two reasons,

1)The moon was always getting lost in the cloubs.
2)the glare - at that time I still didn't know how to screw on the filters yet. - doh:doh:

Cd disks? no not at all....

When I used the 25mm and 9mm it was all a big blurry haze.... turning the focuser had no effect.

When I used the 40 mm it just looked normal like looking at the stars my eyes. ( a little worst infact), it did not enlarge the star shapes or anything.

[janoskiss]

You did well not to resist because you got a super deal! Wow! I'm so filled with envy! ;)

Put the Barlow back together! There is no need to pull anything apart. The Barlow (as you received it) should be inserted in the focuser and then the eyepieces can be inserted in the the Barlow. But normally you do not need a Barlow; just an eyepiece in the focuser. :astron:

First, you should try out the scope with the 40mm and then with the 25mm eyepiece in the focuser. Once you manage with those, then you can move onto the 10 & 6.5mm eyepieces, although the latter will probably be rather uncomfortable (short on eye relief). :D

I'm guessing you did not get any collimation tools. After you had a good look around, you might notice some artifacts (e.g., coloured edges) around the edges of planets like Venus, Jupiter and Mars, or on bright stars. That is a good indication you need to collimate your scope. It's easy, but you need to read up on it. Check this Orion XT10 users' guide (same scope as yours just 2" smaller):

http://www.telescope.com/text/content/pdf/IN_179_SkyQuestXT10.pdf

Regardless of collimation, the above document is a good read, and will give you an idea of how to use your telescope. :thumbsup:

BTW... The right angle finder is a GOOD THING! You normally pay extra for this! It's just that for us beginners a straight through is better for targets well below zenith. Once you learn the sky, right angle finder is what you want on a Dob. Just about every Dob owner with a straight-thru finder wants a right-angle one! If you'd still rather have a straight-thru finder, I'll swap you and pay for postage both ways and send you $10! :D

[davidpretorius]

no not a joke, the 26mm 2" eyepiece will give you wide views. I have a 2" 30mm ultrawide from andrews and it is my favourite eyepiece.

the 25mm normal eyepiece will probably give you more magnification, so don't feel ripped off.

is the focusser actually moving in and out? there are two screws under the focusser that control the in and out movement. if the screws are undone, then turning the knobs will have no effect. try doing up the screws one at a time and see if that makes the focusser go in and out.

i would definately try the moon to start with, as it is really easy to focus on and then you can move to other stars and objects. the moon will drown out a lot of stars at the moment. the moon is great to look at. your 9mm will blow you away at how close you seem when you look.

[janoskiss]

Sorry you weren't successful on first light. Try during the day, to get a feel for how the whole optical path works.

The optics should always be good enough (even if miscollimated) to show you something that you can get a reasonably good focus on. It is a full Moon so try looking at the Moon first. If you can get a good focus, then good.. Then try to find the Lagoon Nebula. Once you've done all that you're ready to explore on your own. :D

"Blurry haze" with no help at the focuser sounds like dew to me. Always keep an eye on the glass surfaces along the optical path. (Yes, sorry, there is always more than what you're told before buying your scope.)

[Eardrum73]

Ok - from what you guys have said it all sounds like a user issue... (phew)
I will play around with the moon first and and then I'll the lagoon nebula and the stars later.

Yes the focuser is moving in and out, when I had the 40 mm on, it got blur and clear... until I could find an optimum spot.
But I still feel that the 40 mm eyepeice should have at least perform better than my eyes though. (or the finderscope for that matter.)

Dew at the focuser - eek! How do I fix that? cus the focuser is inside the tube. Can't put due shields on..... or did you mean the diagonal mirror Janokiss?

The one thing thats not so good about the GS dob is that it is supplied with hardly any instructions.... Just assembly stuff and thats it!
I mean just look at the Skyquest manual Wow. Now thats instructions!

But no - I don't feel ripped off at all, even better now that I know my 2' 26mm will give a wider feel of view....

[janoskiss]

The Skyquest is the exact same Dob you got (except you got the 12", or XT12, for which there is no downloadable manual yet). So you have instructions, just not specific to the accessories that came with your scope.

If you do have dew, it is obvious. If you're not sure, just shine a torch on the suspect glass surface, and you will see clear reflection vs haze.

[davidpretorius]

i spose beginners eagerness.

30mm and 40mm eyepieces at first seem like a waste of time.

when i got mine 3 months ago, hardly used the 25mm and 40mm as jupiter as out and i wanted to get as close as possible. as time went on and you start to look at lagoon and taratula and other nebulas on a dark night with no moon, that is where a nice wide view comes into play

to work out magnification, divide the mm of the eyepiece into the fl of your scope. i assume your scope has a focal length of 1500mm, so divide 40mm into that and you get 35 x magnification. so the smaller the mm on the eyepiece the more magnification. more magnification great for planets, not good for a dak night when you want lots of stars in the field of view.

have a look at the cardboard on the finder in this video of my scope. i got some cardboard rolled into a circle and stickytaped around the finder scope. no more dew.

http://www.precons.com/iis/gallery/mydob-20050915_001.avi

[netwolf]

Eardrum73, where abouts in sydney are you perhaps one of us can drop by and help you. Or better yet maybe you can drop by one of the star parties that are on in the near future.

[Eardrum73]

thanks for the Skyquest manual Janokiss. The skyquest has collimation, how to view, how to use, etc etc...

the GS one has base assembly and fitting the tube on the base and thats it!

But with the web these days thats not a big issue at all, I am happy with what I got. :)

[janoskiss]

No worries, Eardrum. You've got a great scope, and you'll get the hang of it in no time. Then you'll want to take it to a dark site for a real :eyepop: experience. That's what I did but with only an 8" (200mm) Dob. I can only imagine how much better the 12" would be (and I'm turning green as I'm writing this).

[Eardrum73]

Ya, I noted the cardboard dew shield on the finderscope the first time I saw your video. But I think what Janokiss meant was dew in the diagonal mirror or focuser. But I don't think that was the case with me last night.... I think (and hope) that it was just beginner user error on the focusing.

hmm I see, so nebula's are best on dark nights with wide fields of view....

And the smaller mm eyepeices are good for planet detail when the moon is bright. (Neat add this to the list of things I learnt today :) )

Damn... my neighbour had their backyard light on as well. My have contributed to my inagural downfall in celestial viewing.

[Eardrum73]

Thanks for the offer Netwolf, I reside in the north west of Sydney in a suburb called Kenthurst.
But at this stage I would like to give myself a few more chances to work things out by myself. I am still all new to this, but I am not going to be phased by one night of poor viewing. Nothing better than to improve oneself with trial and error. No need to hit the panic buttons yet :)

The star parties definitely sound interest.... definetly something I will want to seriously consider in the future.

[davidpretorius]

if the weather is looking good for the next star party i would make that your #1 priority. do not worry about looking silly. these forum guys will drop everything and help you. this is what makes this site stand out! the #1 priority is to help others.

try some stuff yourself for personal pride, that is important too, but i would hate for you to be disheartened.

i have sat out there at night and been awestruck the first time i saw the orion nebula with a 40mm eyepiece mind you!! the 40mm also on the tarantula nebula, again as it is so big and wide. indeed if you eventually get to imaging orion,the 40mm needs to be reduced to get all the detail in!!!.

hunting down and finding neptune and uranus, i was holding by breath. no they do not look like a dinner plate at this distance, they are bluish and not much bigger than a star, but still beautiful.

moon first, get that focussed with all 5 eyepieces, i will private message you with my mobile and i will talk you thru it.

get to a dark sight, pull out the 2", start out at the south and work your way north thru the milky way you will sit there all night, guarenteed!

[Eardrum73]

Hi there,

didn't get a chance to see anything last night too busy with other commitments. When I get a chance to look at the night sky again I will post and let everyone know how I went.... (hopefully that will be sooner than later....)

At this stage my knowledge about astronomy and telescopes is rudementary at best, hence I can't really post and give advice to others....:confused:

But I am confident in giving advice/experience about my other hobbies: Aquariums/Fishkeeping, Scuba Diving, games........ so if you have any questions feel free to ask me anything thing regarding these topics ;)

(wrong forum i know... but hey.... I could always post the response in general discussion....lol. ) :D

[netwolf]

Hi Eardrum,
I reccomed you have a read of this sight to understand some of the basics. This is where i started. You can ignore the comment about $500 to a certain degree as these days prices are more competetive and this article was written methinks some time ago.
http://astronomy.trilobytes.com.au/scope.htm

Another good one i would reccomend.
Main index
http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/Science/Astronomy/Astronomy.htm
Look under Telescopes.. for this sub page.
http://www.ayton.id.au/gary/Science/Astronomy/Ast_Telescope.htm

Regards

[xrekcor]

Eardrum,

Although it's probably a bit late in the year to invest in the 2005 edition (altough you might be able to pick it up pretty cheap somewhere). But can I suggest you get a copy of Astronomy Australia 2006 when it comes out. It'll give you a montly run down of celestrial events, it has stars charts, planetary info including Jov luna events...ect...etc... and a bunch of other stuff.

also check out www.skymaps.com you can download a southern hemisphere star chart every month free, which will give naked eye, bino and telescope objects to hunt down.

You can download a pretty good planetarium prog' for free here and print up your own charts. It's called Cartes De Ciel. Dont worry about the title it comes in english. And very handy

http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/download.html

Good Luck!

Regards

PS: I went diving once off Howe Reef up off the coast of Cairns once! it was a blast! one of those tour thingys

[cahullian]

Hi Eardrum
I'm also very new at this hobby. The best thing I ever did was attend a star party.The IIS guys helped me no end and they even collimated my scope for me, talking me through the process as they went. 2 thumbs up to john and louie. You will learn more in one night with these guys than you will in 6 months hunting things on your own.
Some times I have the same blurry views on my 8" Dob so I pull the eye piece out of the focuser a little and that really helps me a lot.

Welcome abord the Dob brigade

Gazz/Irish

[Starkler]

On the topic of free maps and observing aids, I cant recommend RTGUI (http://www.rtgui.com) highly enough !

Its a fantastic free tool for seeing whats up and creating a list of objects to observe. It also plugs into Cartes DuCiel and selecting any object will take you straight to it in CDC.

[RAJAH235]

Eardrum, bookmark this. It will help with collimation, when you get a bit more experience.
You'll need a 'Cheshire' sight tube to do this tho!
http://skyandtelescope.com/printable/howto/scopes/article_790.asp
Have you been able to get a crisp/clear image yet? Sounded to me as though you were being a little too savage with the focus movement...... softly, softly, slowly, slowly. Stars should be pinpoints. Use the 25 mm E/Pc first & look at the 2 stars that are called the 'Pointers', near the Southern Cross, then try with the 9 mm. Start with the 'brighter' one..... Tell us what you see! ????????
HTH. :D L.

[xrekcor]

The fullmoon wont help to much chasing faint fuzzies either, better off around the new moon.

Most planetary nebula you will require to up the power some, Eight Burst, Ghost of Jupiter...etc...etc.... even the bigger old Ring Nebula (M57) will take at least medium powers. But general the larger nebula's M42, Eta Carina...etc...etc... are better to use low power wide field of view... later on down the track you might like to look into UHC or OIII filters which can help tease out detail. But get yourself going first

It's all a lerning experience, I would also like to re-iterate "Get yourself off to a star party", either with members here or find and astro club near you. They are a wealth of info in getting you on the right track.

Regards, CS

[xrekcor]

Or you could simply make up a collimating cap for free, does the same thing as a Cheshire sight tube and just as accurate. I used an old end cap but you can do the same with an old film canister or anything else that can fit snuggly into the focuser.

regards,CS

[Eardrum73]

Rajah, there is something in what you say, I was probably too eager with my scope the first time. I think I will try to be real slow and soft with the focuser this time. :)

Thanks for the collimation link too.

RockerX.... do i have to punch a small hole at the end of the film canister/dust cap as well?

oh yeah, and I was given the Australian Astronomy 2005 for free by Andrews... and they said that it can be used for 2006 as well as the stars will change very little? is this true?

I am hoping for clear skies tonight and and early bird neighbours! :)

[ving]

its true enough eardrum :)
the events change but you can still use it in 06 to find stars :)

[xrekcor]

Oooop's yup! that helps, sorry fogot to mention that :ashamed: I used a 2mm drill bit.

[QUOTE=Eardrum73]oh yeah, and I was given the Australian Astronomy 2005 for free by Andrews... and they said that it can be used for 2006 as well as the stars will change very little? is this true? QUOTE]

Cool!, yup! the star chartsat least will be good for another 45yr until they do Epoch 2050.0 the stars move very little and it basically takes 50 years before they update the charts. But dont quote me on that it's just something I've come to believe. Not sure about most of the events though ie: comets, times of meteor shows, Jov luna events...etc...etc... Plus the outer planets move through the constellations. So it would be better to get 2006 when it comes out. However I dont use it as much as I did. It was great for getting you on track and learning the constellations and where most common/popular/bright objects are. In a couple of years if your still riding the wave of interests you'll find you'll be burried deep in print outs from cdc looking for the more exotic variety of objects. Still it's never usually to far away from the scope.

I tried for Mars around 3:00am this morning but, dang! just a tad too cold and bed looked more appealing. I get in these phases at the moment where I rather not observe in the moon light, Especially trying to trace down Cadwell objects. But I did nab comet 9/P Tempe last night about 7:30pm sitting just south of M62 in scorpius. It look more like what it looked like pre impact but with very very faint if at all coma and the nucleus was fading in and out.

regards, CS

[davidpretorius]

Moon won't rise until 8:47, so say from 8pm or earlier. face west ie where venus is. focus on venus, so you get diffraction spikes nice and clean. then move your scope higher and higher to get to antares, up and right is where the good stuff is.


start with your biggest eyepiece, i would suggest your 2" 26mm and then when you have found M7 or M6 the butterfly, go down thru your eyepieces 25mm to 15 to 9mm to see closer and closer. Some objects do not need close ups, there are better observed with your biggest and widest field of view!

[Eardrum73]

Hi everyone,

Finally a night of "clearer" skies and early to bed neighbours.....

I managed to get some good viewing time this time round....


THE YAYS!!! :thumbsup:

There was a really bright star in the sky last night, being a noob, I had absolutely no idea what it was.... I think it was roughly westish (Sirius?)

But I had a look at it anyway and I could just make out the circular shape of the star. The brightness was piercing, I had to use a moon filter.

Looking throught th 2' 25mm eyepeice I could see alot more stars than I could with my naked eye..... wow. 25 mm certainly offers a wider field of view than the 1.25 ones.... I think I will get 2' eyepeices from now on. Will Barlows work with 2'? (somehow I doubt it...)


THE NAYS !!! :confuse2:

I found that while I have pinpointed the star in my finderscope, I still couldn't see it with my dob, I had to still nudge the thing around to being it in to view. Sometimes this took a long time.

I found that moving the dob around to search for stuff isn't easy, especially when the object is low in the horizon.

The eyepeices with the wider views 25mm was easier to use... but when I wanted higher magnification I used the 6.9... sometimes I couldn't pinpoint the star in the scope as the view is so small.

I tried a green colour filter and everything went dim.... are colour filters overated?


All in all it was a better experience than my first night of viewing, even though I pretty much had only one object to look at. I can't wait to see the moon when it comes back.

[janoskiss]

You saw Venus. Stars are all so far away that they are effectively point sources.

The finder scope needs to be aligned using the adjustment screws in its holder. Best done during the day, aimed at something far away (200+m). You can do the final tweak at night.

Things low in the horizon suffer from lot of atmospheric distortion. Things higher in the sky will take a lot more magnification.

Download the Orion XT10 manual:

http://www.telescope.com/text/content/pdf/IN_179_Rev_C_SkyQuest_XT10.pdf

It will take you through all the basics of setup and observing. :thumbsup:

[davidpretorius]

The finder scope will not by default always be lined up with main scope. so..... get your biggest eyepiece 30mm??? or 40mm???, line up the cross hairs on the finder scope on say that bright star (west would have been venus early in the night, sirius is early hours of the morning east), then look through the scope, move the scope so that the bright star is right in the centre. without bumping the scope, look in the finder again. the chances are that the star has moved. there are two screws that you can turn with your fingers to adjust your finder. Move the screws until the star is right in the middle of you finder scope. have a look again thru your main scope and see if the image has moved, realign again in the big one and then check the finder scope. This way you can align the finder! repeat and work your way down thru the eyepieces, 40mm, 25mm, 15mm, 9mm. that way you know that if you see something thru the finder, you can catch it thru your 9mm.

movement does take a bit of getting used to.

2" eyepiece are very good, but more expensive. also if you are moving to imaging down the track, i think finding attachments for you camera would be very hard and expensive. The 1.25" eyepieces are more common, less expensive.

I would suggest keeping both. The 2" will be great for locating stuff ie galaxies. if you have checked you star map and found that a nebula or galaxy is in the area, use your 2" to find it as it has lovely wide views and then zoom in, with your 1.25" eyepieces for detail. Thats the way i do it.

Yes you can get barlows for 2", but of course more expensive.

the filters are ok i spose, maybe the red one on mars, but i reckon you will not use them much as you go all.

well done, it sounds like you are one your way