Still fascinated by Apollo

[Omaroo]

The furthest back I can really remember feeling "astronautical" as a kid was when I sat in a classroom in July 1969 and saw, with billions of other space-smitten people, LM Eagle land on the moon. I've been enthralled with it all ever since. I was interested in Gemini before that (and of course wasn't old enough to remember Mercury) but Apollo really tugged a nerve in me.

The combined US, Russian, Indian, Chinese and European space activities today are a pale reminder of the glory days. I'm very much looking forward to the Ares/Orion missions and hope that the human race's interest in space is properly rekindled. I can only imagine what coverage we will get in a modern world - it should be incredible. The general population is far more tech-savvy that their 1960's counterparts, and I think that the level of interaction that NASA and the US Gov will give us will be brilliant given that the Apollo missions were almost a strategic defence-level operation and not truly civilian, unless this changes in the light of recent events.

I was just having a good read of the Apollo 15 press kit - a 170 page document that outlined the mission objective and planned activities. Brilliant stuff. How they concieved this and then successfully put it into action without having done it before is beyond imagination.

Anyway - for those of you who might also be stuck in a 60's time warp - here is that document. Enjoy!

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/A15_PressKit.pdf

[asterisk]

I remember being in the Common Room of Sydney Uni Union when this happened, watching the TV coverage of the event - fascinated - I missed the next lecture.

Next cloudy night perhaps?

[Ric]

I just read about the first ten pages Chris, amazing stuff.

It's great to read about a time when men were real men, women were real women and small green creatures from Andromeda were ................ (thanks to D. Adams for that bit of poetic licence)

[Dennis]

Hi Chris

Thanks for that, it was a very enjoyable read as well as a pleasant trip down memory lane!

I remember being glued to the TV as the BBC and ITV (UK TV stations) broadcast all the exciting news about Apollo. (Sir) Patrick Moore was absolutely in his element as a lead member of the BBC Team.

I made scale models of the Saturn V rocket and the LEM – both plastic Airfix™ kits, which I displayed at school at the request of our history teacher, who was also an Apollo junkie.

In the mid-seventies, I worked for Marconi Space & Defence Systems on the Maritime Orbital Test Satellite (MAROTS) and the International Ultraviolet Explorer (IUE) as well as Spacelab (an ESA project), so I was able to continue my love for space and earn a living!

Cheers

Dennis

[csb]

On that day in July 1969 our school sent us home to watch it on tv. We were excited to watch it. However we got bored with the show after a short time so Mum FORCED us to sit in the lounge and watch the landings for an hour.

All the reporting and hype leading up to the landing was fantastic. I eagerly read anything in the paper about it.

Thanks Chris I will probably give it a read. I mainly read non-fiction.

[norm]

The whole Mercury, Gemini and Apollo era is inspiring. I was too young to remember the 1st landing, but as a kid and seeing footages of the latter Apollo missions always fascinated me.

I've lost count how many times I've seen From Earth to the Moon.

The thing that I find amazing is the relatively short time span it took man to get to the moon, the technology that had to be invented, the materials, new methodologies - unbelieveable stuff. I sometimes wonder how much time could have been reduced if they were given a couple of dual core notebooks......:whistle:

and just think we can't even get a 2nd airport built in Sydney:screwy:

[Ric]

I always remember after Apollo 11 landed going out that evening with my mum's binoculars to see if I see them walking around.:lol: I was only nine at the time. :D

Never did see them but the craters were fascinating and it kicked off my passion for astronomy.:thumbsup:

[OneOfOne]

I liked it so much, I bought a piece of a Saturn V, Apollo 11 and Apollo 17:
http://www.thespace-station.com/hardware.html

And my own piece of the Moon too:
http://www.spacerocksuk.com/lunarmars.html

[renormalised]

The early space program (Mercury, Gemini and especially, Apollo) was probably our greatest achievement, and also our greatest failure. The problem was, its primary raison detre was purely political and militaristic....beat the Russians to the Moon and everywhere else. Manned exploration of space was a secondary concern. The moment it was politically expedient to can it, Nixon did. In doing so, we lost all that vast momentum that we'd built up. All that expertise....lost. All the hardware, lost. The chance to have firmly established ourselves in space and to push forward with what we had...lost. Who knows where we'd be now if things had've gone on from there. I know, for sure, we'd have been on Mars at least 20-25 years ago. There'd be permanent bases there now. We'd probably have sent manned missions to Jupiter and Saturn by now too. Our space technology would be way ahead of where it is, now. Instead, it'll probably be another 20 or so years before we even consider going to Mars and it's a good 10 years before anything permanent ends up on the Moon, even!!!!!. Geez, given how magnanimous and generous politicians are these days, and how much intelligence and forethought they possess, it'll probably be, oh...2040-50, by the time we finally get to Mars!!!! (sarcasm intended).

As interesting and exciting the early space program was, I just can't share the same enthusiasm for the present program. Regardless of what they're doing now with the Ares and Orion programs, it holds about as much interest to me as a wet sponge. They may have given NASA $1 billion in extra funds, but that's not even a drop in a bucket. NASA has had to pull funding from other programs in order to get the present "adventure" up and running. The entire Apollo program cost $25 billion dollars over its lifetime. NASA's nominal yearly budget is around $16 billion, in a normal year. Compared to the $1.7 trillion they just threw at the feet of "Corporate America" in order to prop up a few greedy executives and their lifestyles, what they spend on the space program doesn't even register. You hear some say they should be spending the money they give NASA to help the poor and all that. They already spend $900 billion yearly, in the US alone, for social welfare programs. Take a look at their "world class, wonderful" social system!!!. It's a joke.

No, in reality, there's still no real political will to forge ahead with anything to do with space exploration. They mouth platitudes to being "proactive" (I hate that word) in funding space exploration and research...you get the political bosses trot out every now and then and make what they think passes for a "grand" pronouncement on the future of space exploration, but it's all just smoke and mirrors. If it wasn't for the fact that there's something in it for the military and the politicians (spying on other countries, etc), they'd have canned the whole lot years ago.

Come to think of it, does "Joe Public" even give a rat's about the space program at all, these days??. Probably not.

[Omaroo]

Nice to have some positive thoughts attributed to this thread. :whistle:

I guess that there'll always be grumbling about the program from some, and their percieved reasoning for the motivation (or lack of) behind it, but is it now just a question of whether it's important enough to do one day. Does it really matter what the reasoning behind the space race was? I think not. For those of us who revel in it its complexity and wondrous achievement, the politics really mean squat. The happenings during the 1960s were fuelled by two nations diametrically opposed in their political views, and this atmosphere of supremist competition acted as the catalyst to get the human species up there. Brezhnev and Kennedy - glad you two blokes fired rockets into space rather than at each other! :thumbsup:

[kinetic]

I remember reading that...and that was in 1960s-70s dollars too!


Don't write us all off! :)
I think another tragedy is that Australia doesn't have an active space
program up and running from the early momentum of the Woomera era.

I'm still glad to have lived within this small window of human history
though.
My late grandfather made me so proud. From his perspective he was
born in the 1910s, learnt to fly a Gypsy Moth. Planes were a new
invention!. His son, my Dad learnt to fly too...in a DH Chipmunk.
Grandpa was fascinated by technology and kept up with it too with
a passion until his passing. He followed the 50s and 60s early test
programs for Jets and the x-planes.
Saw the moon landings and shuttle programs.
Saw in the Pioneer and Voyager missions, Viking and Galileo.

What an era to have lived your allocated existence!.
And in his 80's Grandpa could still operate the latest VCR and camcorders
and set his own digital watch.:D

Whatever happens in the next few decades will not alter the fact for me
that I feel very priveliged to have lived right now!


Steve

[renormalised]

You miss my point there, Chris. Whether you revel in the the achievement and the technology of the space program means diddly squat to those that ultimately run it and have hold of the purse strings. We don't even register at all. Even our opinions at the ballot box mean "jack" ultimately. The business of running things carries on regardless of who's in power or not. Or who we put in there.

What I was ultimately trying to get across is that we need someone in there that will fire up the space program. Someone who has the intelligence, imagination and forethought to be able to push it along. Someone who can rally everyone behind the grand enterprise and keep that support going. They'll need help in doing this though as no one person could carry that burden themselves. Unfortunately I don't see anyone in government anywhere who is like that...not even Obama. Those that work behind the scenes ar even less inclined to be like that. The political apparatchiks have more in common with "Corporate America" than they have in anything else. So long as their narrow minded, self righteous needs are taken care of, to hell with everything else. Unfortunately when someone who has all the right qualities appears, they usually don't last long.

Oh...BTW. It was Kruschev, not Brezhnev, and Kennedy.

[Omaroo]

Ah, come on guys - I'm really not terribly interested in "the point". The question wasn't asked, so I'm not sure why I got the answer. LOL! Did you read the document and find it interesting at all?

My whole reasoning for posting what I did was to alert those people, who may find it interesting, to the great document I found. If you feel like politicising my post, then please don't, as I wasn't looking for it. Why is it that any time anyone mentions Apollo for what it was, we get politics creeping in? In retrospect I should have avoided all mention of it in my original post, and for that I'm sorry all!

I shouldn't have mixed Brezhnev & Kennedy in the same breath either - I didn't mean to. It most certainly was Brezhnev controlling the USSR efforts during the latter 60's Apollo era, from 1964-on. Kennedy wasn't around, of course, but his influence and vision still were.

Anyway - good feelings everyone... goooooood feelings! :)

[renormalised]

I'm not writing us all off.....but the fact is there's only a few of us who even remember Apollo or even care about the space program then or now. Most of this is due to ignorance and a pathetic lack of education....on the part of the system. And you can thank the much vaunted Sir Robert Menzies for canning our nascent space endeavours back in the mid 60's, as he thought there was no future in it (and that is on record in Hansard).

The problem is no one even knows what's happening with space. I can tell you now, from personal experience, that I have come across a great many people that don't even look up at the Moon, let alone the stars, at night!!!!. I doubt that many of them would even know why we have seasons or that our planet orbits a star (and that was borne out in a survey in the US back in '98. A survey of 40 million people of all socioeconomic backgrounds....3/4 of them didn't even know that the Earth orbits the Sun...and in 1 year!!!!!!). What does all that tell you??.

My grandad passed away before the space race got going (he was born in 1888), but I'm sure he would've been fascinated by all our earlier achievements in flight....he was a chemical engineer and loved science. My own interest was kindled by my father, who was also an engineer and loved science. I grew up on Apollo, Mariner, Viking, Pioneer and Voyager so I know and love anything to do with the space program, but this present effort lacks everything these older programs even stood for. It has no momentum, except amongst the community to which it belongs. You don't hear too many people talking about it in the streets or even any extensive coverage on the news, like you did with the other programs. Remember when Voyager 2 passed by Neptune....they devoted an entire night's schedule just to cover that on the ABC!!!!. Now, they land a couple of probes on Mars, and it gets one sound bite on the night it happens, right at the back of the news bulletin as an afterthought and then nothing. Maybe a few mentions over the years, every now and then.
Or what about when the Vikings landed there....I can remember Carl Sagan rambling on for over an hour talking about when the first pics came in!!!!. Now, how many people would even know that the movie "Contact" was based on a book written by him?? How many people have seen or would remember seeing "Cosmos" on TV??. Not many. How many people would know who Sir Patrick Moore is???. Even less. Arthur C Clarke??. How many people would know he invented the concept of the telecommunications satellite back in 1945-6??. Less still.

That's the problem.

I for one, feel privileged to be alive, regardless of what era it is or what is happening on a technical front. But when I see wasted opportunities occur because of incompetence and lack of will, intelligence, thought, foresight, sheer narrowmindedness, apathy etc etc, I have to wonder about those people that are in the positions to do something about it. Those that supposedly run the show on our behalf and in who's name they carry on with these endeavours. If, in fact, they are only responding to and promulgating the will of the people, then that's a sad indictment of the people as a whole. I, for one, choose to think that some of us care enough to not feel that way, but there's just not enough of us to make too much of a difference, unfortunately.

[renormalised]

Actually, I'm still engrossed in it....the spin boys at NASA do a pretty good job:)

[Omaroo]

There's "spin" and there's "spin". One refers to deflective BS and the other to a great report/story. I hope that you take it to infer the latter? Public awareness was a strong point in NASA's early days, and if technicalities were to be bandied about by Cronkite and the rest of the press, then they may as well be accurate and informed. :thumbsup:

[renormalised]

No, I mean the latter......the guys at NASA were always so good at promoting what they do. The guys now could take quite a few leaves out of the old timer's books about promoting their wares.

[Jen]

:) awww thats very cute :thumbsup:

[Dog Star]

G'day Chris,
Enjoyed your original post and understand and agree with your reasons for doing so.:thumbsup:
However, I also find myself sadly nodding in agreement with Renormalised and much of what he has to say.
Be that as it may, space programs are still up and running with many different countries now involved.
I guess that it was somewhat inevitable that the initial "giant leap" would be followed by slightly smaller, more timid steps.
They were great days back then though, weren't they?
Seeing "a man named Armstrong walking on the Moon.":thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Ric]

:lol: Yep Jen, as nine year olds in those days we were a lot more innocent than the nine year olds of today.:lol:

[renormalised]

I was just thinking....what will the first person to step on Mars say when they do so. I mean, Neil Armstrong really stole everyone's thunder by pronouncing what he had to say. How do you even come up with something as eloquent as what he did??!!!. It's pretty big shoes to step into and follow!!!.

[Omaroo]

Wasn't it Dave Scott on 15 that was thinking "Yee haa!" would be his contribution?

[renormalised]

I think it was...

If it was me, knowing my luck, I'd get a foot caught in the rungs of the ladder on the side of the ship and what'd come out of my mouth on the way down wouldn't be fit for transmission!!!!:eyepop::P:P:D

[Jen]

:lol::lol::lol: