Wages

[Solanum]

I was perusing the glossy ads in the new AS&T yesterday thinking how I would love to have X or Y, when an interesting thought came to me. Now, I am a Research Scientist for CSIRO, which I guess makes me a mid-career scientist (early mid-career perhaps!), and I have previously worked in one of the better known research schools at ANU (I'm not an astronomer I hasten to add). So I am well aware of the wage structures of those two institutions, which cover most of Australia's top astonomers (AAT employees work under the CSIRO, and the RSAA is at ANU).

Anyway, to cut a long waffle slightly shorter, unless those astronomers don't have a family to support, few of them could afford much of the equipment that is advertised in AS&T and owned by a significant number of people on this forum. This post isn't a complaint about my own wages (on the whole I am satisifed with them), nor moaning about those who can afford the big gear, and I realise that amateur astronomy can be enjoiyed with a pair of cheap binoculars, but I find it ironic that in general many of our professional astronomers couldn't really afford to be amateur astronomers!

[Jazza]

How do you think us PhD students feel?
:)

[renormalised]

And just as bad for masters students too:)

[Solanum]

Ah, but when you're a student you still have hope!

[renormalised]

But even less money:P:D

[Rodstar]

Well Everard, you may be content with your wage, but if it is in line with what I understand public sector scientists get, I am sure it is less than you are worth.

[renormalised]

You can say that again, Rod. After all the blood, sweat and tears you go through to get that degree then the govn' pays you a pittance. No wonder so many scientist try to get private sector jobs.

[Solanum]

Well, thanks for the support! The way I look at wages is this, have I done that much more for mankind than the man who empties my bins that I deserve tens times what he gets (not that I do!), and the answer is probably no. On the other hand, are there a lot of people who have spent less time training for their job, do less work than me, do work that I consider less valuable, but get considerably more money than me? Of course, so how happy I feel about my wage depends which side of that argument I look at....

[KenGee]

How about some figures?
I saw a climate researcher job add in NS for 160K that sounds ok to me.

[Solanum]

Sounds OK to me too, but that is well above and beyond what a Chief Scientist (level 8.3, highest level short of divisional chief) in CSIRO gets and it's well above and beyond what a senior prof (level g) gets at ANU. The number of people above level 8 at the AAT is probably 1 and the number of people at RSAA above level g is almost certainly only 1. Your comment is akin to saying, I saw a CEO job advertised last week for $1.5 million. If you really wwant to see the salary scales of either institution they are public record and can be found.

Anyway, as I said my point wasn't a complaint about wages, it was the irony by which a typical professional astronomer with a family would probably struggle to buy amateur astronomy gear more advanced than a dob and a few moderate quality eyepieces.

[mick pinner]

l agree and understand you are not complaining in your instance however l cannot stand people that select a career path, professional or not and then constantly complain about the lack of pay or benefits at the end of it all. you have a fair idea of the rewards before you start, if you don't who's to blame?

[Hagar]

The days of walking out of Uni and attaining a position with relatively high wages is long gone. A degree used to be a passport to a well paid carreer but in a job market where you can choose from a big bucket of applicants somewhat negates the high pay scales of the past.
In most Degree based employment a good ($100K/ annum) salary is usually not reached until you have a good employment history and something to add to the position which can be quantified and sought after.
It will get harder to get a well paid position into the future so hang on to your positions and try to bring something special to your work. Make yourself an integral part of the place and the salary will come with time.

[renormalised]

Yeah, but look what else they get to play around with:D:D

[Starkler]

Might help to keep some perspective in considering that the median (as opposed to average) full time workers earnings is a tad under 50k ordinary time earnings.

If your pay is more than that, then there is a greater number of people earning less than you, than more.

[KenGee]

I'm a manager in the IT sector we generally start Grads at around 45-50K. I think in relative terms Astro gear is much cheaper then it was 20 years ago. Anyway a 10K ccd camera is much more fun then a child, and yes I'm a DIFK, Double income fur Kids family.

[Hagar]

Taken into this equasion is the corporate high flyers and at the lower end a lot of people who have no schooling for whatever reason but they also don't have the $50K+ HECS debt that most Uni graduates have and if their initial incomes were added to compensate for the years the graduate spend getting an education they usually end up quite a bit in front for the first 10 years of their employment.

[Wavytone]

During my first degree (BSc maths/physics) I had a vacation scholarship at Mt Stromlo, and got to know some of the staff up there.

It soon became apparent the pay was (still is) lousy, the hours fairly antisocial, and the career prospects terrible - it was evident that the output of science graduates from just one university here was more than enough to fill all the professional vacancies.

So... finished the degree, then went off to become an electrical engineer. Much better.

BTW - the other thing that convinced me to become an EE was that among the professional staff at Stromlo a lot had been EE's originally - not physics graduates.

[skwinty]

Yes, I see the irony in your post.

However, for me, the real irony is that a professional astronomer would have designs on being an amateur astronomer. The last thing I want to do is take my work home with me.

All work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy.;)

[renormalised]

Yeah, but you don't do astronomy because it's a well paying job or even work for that matter. You do it because it's in your blood, it's a part of you. There's quite a few professionals that also "masquerade" as amateurs as well:)

[Enchilada]

Irony actually begins with an 'i'... :rofl:

[Alchemy]

i think some here have plenty ( and good luck to them)

it used to be DSLRs and a 10 inch scope on an EQ6

now mono megapixel (10 or more) are more common , there are 12, 14 inch RCOS , 180mm APO refractors, paramounts, adaptive optics etc etc.

i have no hope of buying that sort of gear..... and just quietly , i could spend that sort of money much better on something else,and i get reasonable images.... when the skies are friendly enough, and theres still plenty i havent imaged.


As for the average person, on an average wage , buying an average house, with an average size family..... theres not much left over for personal entertainment. Still we live in a good country, very few go hungry or uncomfortable so .......thats life