Am I being unreasonable?

[Dog Star]

Recently decided I needed another set of binoculars.
After doing some web searching, I found what looked to be just what I needed at the right price. The company (Vendor X, shall we call them) don't list a phone number, so I sent off an email to ask about their transport details, something that you need to know when living in a hard to find place 20 k's outside Alice Springs. I mentioned that I really wanted to make the purchase (not window shopping) and would appreciate a reply.
Sent my email on the 15/01/09 and a reply (automatically generated, I assume) was in my inbox the next day telling me that they were on holidays until 27/01.
Although it was a longer wait than I had anticipated, I thought I'd wait as opposed to ordering through another vendor as I really wanted what Vendor X had for sale. Vendor X, I should add, is a reasonably well known Australian vendor, and is NOT Bintel or Andrews.
I had assumed that I would have received a reply by the close of business on the 27th, but when I hadn't, i figured that they were catching up after the holidays.
When I still hadn't received a reply by close of business on the 28th, I sent another polite email asking if I could get a reply to my first email.
By close of business today (29th) I still haven't received a reply.
Would I be correct in assuming by now that Vendor X just isn't interested in doing business with me?
I'm a bit new to this ordering stuff by email, so I'm not sure what is "acceptable" by way of business etiquette. Do I have the right to be ticked off, or is this just standard procedure?
Do I just give up on Vendor X and shop elsewhere?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[mrsnipey]

I'd go elsewhere.
I hate it when people don't return my e-mails (or phone calls for that matter). They might be busy after the break but it doesn't take long to shoot off a general email to everyone saying they'll be in touch soon.

[garyp]

I think it would be nice if they had acknowledged your email by now Phil, even if they are too busy. They could say they have received it and are processing it or something to that effect.

It's like waiting in a shop for service. I hate being ignored. When a shop is busy it's so nice when they see you and say "I'll be right with you" rather than leaving you waiting with no acknowledgement. It makes all the difference.

Sending an email is a bit like waiting in a shop I think.

Cheers

Gary:)

[acropolite]

Phil, there really is no excuse for not answering emails, even when you're on holidays. I regularly check my email while I'm travelling, I even do remote programming work, it's simple in this day and age. You can travel the world with something like an ASUS eeePC for a cost of around $500, you don't even need internet access, it's often possible to find free access points or to "sniff" an unsecured network and check your mail.

At the end of the day it's a judgement call, If I don't get an answer I choose to go elsewhere.

[Ric]

Hi Phil, I had the same problem when enquiring about the purchase of a new scope a few years back (the LX200R).

I emailed several companies with a list of my enquiries and only one one replied with a very detailed response and followed up with a phone call the next day to discuss it further which was STD at their cost.

Needless to say they got the sale and quite a few sales afterwards. I'll always vote with my wallet and I am always loyal to a company, If they look after me I'll look after them.

If they don't want to reply don't bother with them. It sounds like you have given them plenty of time to respond.

[Wavytone]

That's the first sign of a shonky company.

Even if you managed to get their attention long enough to place an order, I bet they'd take your money but not deliver.

[KIOWA]

Hi Phil,
I was interested to read your post re the lack of contact from an online supplier for a potential sale. I made an inquiry for some binos also from who I believe is your vendor X (as I received the same computer generated reply saying they were closed until the 27th).
Like you, I was interested in what they offered and asked a couple of question to which I still have not had a reply.
It makes me think that perhaps there is something amiss with their mail system. I plan to wait until the weekend and then will send another email asking why they dont respond and see what happens.
My normal rule of thumb is not to deal with any online company that does not list a contact phone number and preferable an actual address, and this policy has never let me down but it is frustrating when you see what you want at the right price and there is no contact other than email. I think given the current slide into economic obilivion we all need to be careful about dealing anywhere.
I'll let you know what happens and would appreciate the same if you decide to proceed with contacting them again.

[Dog Star]

G'day Colin,
What's really frustrating is the fact that they are a reasonably well known and usually reliable supplier. My brother (Gargoyle) Steve bought me a pair of 20x80's from these people and had no trouble. I'm impressed with the quality of these nokkies and that was a big factor for me in enquiring after a pair of 12x60's.
At this stage I'm seriously considering sending them another email containing nothing other than the http address for this thread!:mad2:
The reason I posted this thread was to find out if my expectations were in fact a bit unjustified, but going by the general tone of the replies so far, I'm inclined to think not.
If I've not heard back by close of business tomorrow, I'm taking my money elsewhere.
Best of luck to you:thumbsup: but you might be better off doing the same.
BTW, it has occurred to me that a post of this nature may inadvertantly cast an unfortunate slur on the many astro suppliers in Australia who DO do the right thing (Given that I haven't named Vendor X)
To this end, if a Moderator would care to give me the permission to name the vendor, I most certainly will!
Otherwise, interested parties may PM me for the name.
Cheers, Phil.

[leon]

Yep shop elsewhere, they are obviously not interested, and I figure it is because you are so far out of the normal range of shipping, just send them another email and tell them you don't wish to do business with them anymore

leon

[Tandum]

I'd suggest they are having an extended holiday and not intentionally ignoring you. When I take time off I turn off everything, it's the only way to have time off. You can't have a holiday if you are constantly checking emails or answering customers queries, that's work. If you're in a hurry shop elsewhere.

[AstroJunk]

Agreed.

Many of the vendors are just one person 'havin a go'. Support them, because without them you would be paying twice as much!

[GrahamL]

Yeah I'd wait a little longer phil .. pain as it might be .. Lee Andrews once had a whine to me about dealing with emails on a daily basis
( find an email addy on his site now ? ).. I could imagine what a few weeks worth might generate.. just to process orders without dealing with the enquires would likely take a couple of days .

[Dog Star]

Yeah mate, I can appreciate that, which is why I made the post. Thought maybe I WAS being a bit precious.
Only thing wrong with that theory is that email and fax are the only given means of communicating with this vendor - No post box, no physical address and no phone number.
My take on this is that if you are going to be in business, then surely it follows that you have to do business.
The annoying part is that the bino's weren't actually for me. They're intended for a mate who has done me a couple of nice turns recently and has expressed an interest in astronomy. It was his birthday last week and I thought I'd have the bino's in plenty of time for that.
I don't want to sound like a whinger, but I'd like to know what's wrong with the colour of my money?

[ving]

reputable or not there are other places that will answer emails that want you money...

[bojan]

But guys, maybe there was computer crash, power failure, lighting, or something similar.
Being most popular, email is by no means the most reliable way of communication..
I would wait another couple of days. You can always go to someone else later.. in case they really ignored you, and I do not believe this was the case.

[Alchemy]

try giving them a quick phone call (oops no phone), it might prod the situation

as a tradesperson i find i get quite a bit of work due to the fact other tradespeople dont give punctual service, ie return calls or turn up when they are supposed to.

We pay people a fortune to advertise and advise on how to improve our buisiness and then drop the ball, you need to strike whilst the customer is interested. its poor practice not to look after potential and existing clients...... but then who has rung up a help line to be told (we appreciate your buisiness as a valued client) only to listen to 20 mins of boring piano music and when you finally get through are told (sorry you have the wrong dept) go back to the music and whoops the line drops out. its somewhat of an endemic attitude.

its your money if you feel dudded, by all means take it to someone who wants it.... after all it is supposed to be a recession, they shouldnt be that busy.

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Sorry for not reading this and jumping in sooner Phil, haven't found time to log in for a few days. I've only just read your pm from 2 days ago poin ting me at this thread.

Since I know who you are talking about I am really surprised to say the least, they literally bent over backwards to assist me during my bino buying spree that you mentioned, and we were literally swapping up to 2 emails each a day there at one point.

I suspect something HAS gone wrong, what I'd do is send an email with the "Acknowledge receipt" options elected. While this isn't foolproof you MAY get a "system" message back to confirm that they have at least read your message - if you get that acknowledgment and still no reply then they are being "slack", but if your emails are not even getting to them for some tech problem then they can't be blamed I guess.

I MAY have an alternate email address at home from the aforementioned email ping pong, I'll have a look when I have 5 minutes awake / at home to spare.

I would suggest that you not mention the vendors name here, I would be willing to bet bucks that they haven't received your emails for some reason. Even the automated reply is no guarantee that the emails have actually reached any HUMAN, just that they've reached a server/computer somewhere.

Steve

[Dog Star]

Steve,
Your post is most timely indeed due to the fact that while no Moderator has given me permission to post the vendors name, no Moderator has told me that I can't! Without repeating myself over and over, I'm none too happy about all this. Like Peter Cook, I don't see why I should accept No Reply as an answer!
The only reason I haven't already done so is due to the high opinion that you held this vendor in, proof indeed that "word of mouth" is the best form of advertising that there is.
Will do as you suggest, but if it turns out that they have been slack, then I'll "publish and be damned!":mad2:
"Word of mouth," after all!

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Phil have sent you a pm, no other contact details to pass to you yet (am at work again even now, has taken near 90 minutes just to squeeze in writing the pm and posting this here.

Sadly it's a fact that mud sticks far worse than any amount of "clean" does, and I feel positive that there will be a good reason (if not perhaps one that makes you "happy") for the delay in communications. I'd hope you would refrain from throwing any mud unless it is found that nothing but slackness has caused this issue.

I can tell you that the vendor in question went WAY out of their way to help me when I was buying our bino's, including getting order processed and posted at the very end of the day (may even have been a Friday I think?)to make sure I had your's here for your trip down here that Easter. They are very good people and I 'm sure all will be revealed in time.

[Dog Star]

Not throwing mud!!:mad2:
Not having an opinionated rant!!
Just stating facts as they are!!
During the recent debates regarding delivery of Sky and Telescope and Sky and Space magazines, both businesses' names were bandied about quite freely in the public arena with the right of reply being assumed on behalf of both parties.
Given that I have not yet named Vendor X should be construed as restraint and a sense courtesy and fairness on my behalf.
I would have thought that my comments thus far have been fair and reasonable and could not be construed in any way as "throwing mud" and I deeply resent the implication that I am doing so!

[Gargoyle_Steve]

Phil I have NOT accused you of throwing mud, I actually wrote "...hope you would refrain from throwing any mud unless .. " - that's future tense, not past! I was merely trying to keep anything from getting TO that point, in no way did I intend my comment to mean that you or anyone else had ALREADY done so.

I was only trying to make sure that everything stays calm and friendly here, and NO I'm not pointing any fingers at you.

Obviously there IS an issue of non communication from a vendor here that needs to be resolved, no one was trying to prevent that. All we want to do is get answers.
:thumbsup:

[Dog Star]

As all I've done throughout this thread is state the simple facts, how can it be construed as "throwing mud" if I post this vendors' name?
Again, witness the S & S and S & T threads.
As Astroron said on the S & T thread, one sided reports aren't any good.
I find it very queer that a company that bills itself as optical and electrical can't maintain a communications system!

[Lee]

I would go elsewhere. If you are trying to run a predominately online business (must be since no phone is offered?) then you need the following:
1. a very reliable email system
2. to check said emails more than once daily
3. a very reliable email system

It's no good blaming the spam filter - if you can't avoid it, then get a new email provider people, and then check the spam box. If you aren't internet savvy enough to handle this.... DON'T start an internet business..... pretty simple I think.

If you are a one-man-band, then 2 week long holidays with nothing but an automated response for prospective customers is going to hit your bottom line (and future bottom lines) hard....

A few years ago, I was about to buy a G-11 from a particular vendor in this country, who lost the sale because he decided to not read/answer emails for 3 days - bought it the next day from the guy who answered his phone.

[Bob]

I had the same problem 12 months ago with the same company.After many un answered emails, I assumed they had gone out of business and bought elsewere.
If they are still in business, they certainly need to address there comunication problems urgently.
Bob

[garyp]

So what's the update Phil? I take it you have still heard nothing from them. maybe tommorrow being monday you might hear something. If you send an email saying you have gone somewhere else you might get a more immediate response.:D

All the best

Gary:)

[Dog Star]

Have sent a 3rd email as Steve suggested (Saturday 31/1) so I cant reasonably(!) expect a reply until Monday 2/2 at earliest.
The tragedy here is that at this point in time, I don't feel inclined to deal with this company anyway.
All I asked for was to be acknowledged as a potential customer.
I think Andrews or Bintel will be receiving a query from me early tomorrow.
Might ask about a Barlow too.

[Dog Star]

Opened my in-box this morning and to my surprise, I've had a reply from Vendor X!
Surprised due to the fact that it was sent last night at 8:49.
The reply apologises for the long wait and tells me that the reason was in fact due to the back log of replies that they are still working through.
Guess that I have to be man enough to cop that one on the chin!
So, was I being unreasonable?
I guess that I have to say "Yes!"
The unfortunate part of all this is that when you don't receive a reply, you are left to your own conjectures as to what has happened.
As to what constitutes a reasonable time to wait for a reply - a day, 2 days, a week - I honestly don't know.
Colin, if you haven't yet received a reply, my advice would be to hang in.
It appears that they are in fact genuine and a reply should be on its way soon.
I've got a bit heated a couple of times on this thread and I should apologise for that.
As I say though, it's difficult to know how to react when you're not getting any replies.

[Lee]

I don't think you have been at all unreasonable.... in fact you have been extremely reasonable..... "working through a backlog of emails" - how long can it take?? It's only their business! Honestly if they can't at least sift through an inbox, find the orders and interested customers and action those first, they deserve to go broke.

I only give my custom to businesses that provide a good service (and I don't mind paying for the service), this means prompt replies. For an online business, I expect an email reply within 24 business-hr, preferably 12 hours.

[erick]

If I've correctly ascertained who Vendor X is, my experience has been good through four purchases and one warranty repair job over two years. They very helpfully arranged an urgent delivery in between Christmas and New Year two years ago. At one stage I was provided with a phone number so we could keep in close contact around an issue. My most recent experience was a purchase mid 2008 which went well.

At the same time, our expectations are high these days, particularly when we are enthusiastic to move ahead on a purchase of what should be in-stock items. The vendor who can meet all the expectations of all prospective customers will do well. I suspect such a vendor does not exist. It's always a balancing act, particularly in a low volume market such as Australia. For the best prices, maybe there is no shopfront or staff on immediate call. I do go to Ebay for items and have to balance a very low price against the risk of an unknown vendor in Australia or overseas where I cannot go and inspect product or pick it up when I part with my hard-earned.

I've walked away from vendors who don't respond in my timeframe, regardless of the reason. Other times I've stayed the distance for the particular product or price.

Hope that you are soon a satisfied customer, Phil, whether of Vendor X or another. The joy of owning and using a product soon outweighs the frustrations of getting it in the first place is what I have observed. :)